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Post by gervaise21 on Aug 20, 2024 8:45:40 GMT
Not only the art, the spell’s visual effects also included wings: Well there you go. It is a sign of spirit given protective magic, even if the spell in DAI could also revive them. For all we know, perhaps the spirit will do the same for Lucanis if he should be struck down. That would be a variant of the Necromancer spell that had a duplicate rise up to fight on their behalf whilst the mage was on the ground. There is definitely overlap between the spirit tree and Necromancer specialism in DAI in terms of what they can do. In fact, if I had to venture a guess… Lucanis’ sitch (whatever it is) is more likely from a benevolent entity. Even more likely, whether we encourage / guide Lucanis to be all stabby and bloodthirsty or more merciful and compassionate, reflects on the spirit’s nature. It may be something similar to what happened with Anders in DA2 with his specialism. Whilst it was called Vengeance regardless, if you were a friend he had the passive ability Eye to Eye that gave improved damage across all categories but if a rival he gained No Compromises that just gave enhanced health regeneration. However, there may also be an element to it like there was with Iron Bull and the decision over the Chargers that could impact your relationship with him further down the line and his eventual outcome. I'm definitely going to be careful over the way I deal with Lucanis, not just for my own sake but for his. I already feel really protective towards him, which is pretty daft when you think about it because he is a master assassin, but Zach says he does have a heart so I'm running with that. Also, I'm completely on board with the "I loath the Venatori" club. However, I also felt that way about the Crows after the way they treated Zevran and how they train their operatives generally (even their own grandchildren), so siding with them ain't going to be easy. Once again, I'm thinking back to the Iron Bull personal quest. Mind you, they flagged up that one pretty strong that sacrificing the Chargers would have bad consequences even if getting the Qunari on side did seem more important at the time.
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Post by gervaise21 on Aug 20, 2024 8:47:03 GMT
Oh! Or maybe it's a Spirit of Purpose? We haven't seen the uncorrupted version of a desire demon yet, and I could see Purpose fitting him. You're right, that would be a very good fit for him. Mind you, having single minded determination can have its downside. Look what happened with Solas once he lost his friend Wisdom to balance out the Purpose driving him.
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Post by fairdragon on Aug 20, 2024 9:01:33 GMT
Good spot with the wings in the icon. I had forgotten that. Perhaps we shouldn't read too much into the colour code either. Green seems to relate to Fade/Spirit magic and they have now chosen to link that to the activities of the Mourn Watch (even though Necromancy was colour coded purple in DAI). However, that big skeleton in the trailer doesn't look benevolent to me, so green doesn't automatically equate with good. That being the case, purple doesn't automatically equate with evil but it does seem to consistently be linked with direct action by spirits and offensive/protective magic associated with the spiritual realm. It seems a fair bet that Lucanis is getting spiritual assistance but it remains to be seen the exact nature of the spirit helping him. Solas did say that a demon is just a warped spirit and Cole could flip flop between being a spirit of compassion and a spirit of hate/despair, whilst Anders said it was his anger that turned Justice into Vengeance, so these things aren't necessarily fixed and can be influenced one way or the other. Further thought, it says of Lucanis in Tevinter Nights that he "was the sort of man you couldn't look away from - until he looked at you". Then with Cole, just before he killed someone in Asunder he would say "Look into my eyes". (May be there is a reason they have't given us any close up shots of his face looking at the camera like they have with the others.) Not only the art, the spell’s visual effects also included wings: I don’t think the colors mean good or bad, either. It’s just what they decided works best for Veilguard and going forward vs. Inquisition (I actually like it better this way… used to be the same in DAO and 2 also: purple = spirit and arcane, if memory serves). In fact, if I had to venture a guess… Lucanis’ sitch (whatever it is) is more likely from a benevolent entity. Even more likely, whether we encourage / guide Lucanis to be all stabby and bloodthirsty or more merciful and compassionate, reflects on the spirit’s nature. And what if the spirit only protect Lucanis from danger. That way he could die without having died. Everyone think he is dead, but the spirit protected him from that. And so he doesn't have spirit magic. But he have the wings and they take him away when he is in danger. Maybe the spirit stayed because of Lucanis will to live and his will to finish his work.
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Post by Ice-Quinn on Aug 20, 2024 9:02:04 GMT
I would not be surprised if unleashing all those Justice/vengeance spirits at the party brought him to the attention of one or more of them whom then granted him some power to survive the reprisal and continue pursuing the Venatori. If it is justice/vengeance related then I do hope it's a rogue version of spirit warriors and seekers rather than a possession. Already been there done that with Anders/Justice. None of the other spirits and demons seem particularly fitting though, perhaps it's a new one, we only just found out about Perseverance so we might meet more that are new to us. Oh! Or maybe it's a Spirit of Purpose? We haven't seen the uncorrupted version of a desire demon yet, and I could see Purpose fitting him. I believe you're right, don't think we're getting a Wynne or Anders repeat. I like the idea of a Shadow / Spirit Rogue, myself. Something like a guardian spirit or guide (maybe even related to the Crows?) could be cool, too. Speaking of guardian spirits: what if depending in what direction we "nudge" Lucanis (walk towards the light, child!), he gets access to a version of the Revival (or Lifeward) spell? 🤔 I seem to recall the Devs saying something about certain companions having the power to bring back a dead Rook, depending on how they're built or whatever. Of course, they could be talking about Emmrich and the other mages, but how about a Rogue assassin, for a less obvious route?
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Post by gervaise21 on Aug 20, 2024 12:53:49 GMT
Further thought. When Morrigan casts magic in the trailer, it is purple magic. So, unless we are saying Morrigan is now a demon, it does seem to be connected with powerful spirit magic generally.
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Post by gervaise21 on Aug 20, 2024 13:29:48 GMT
Returning to Kala Elizabeth's analysis video. If she is right about those two tarot cards being Lucanis, then probably the one with him swimming in blood is if you don't help him against Zara I would imagine. Still not convinced about that one.
However, what she had to say about some images that you can blink and miss in the video. In the scene where Rook throws a sword on the table, Davrin is one side of him but off to the left of the image is Lucanis and she pointed out that he is wearing a different costume. Instead of being decorated with eyes, it is decorated with black feathers. Then later on when Lucanis and Rook are blown back from Ghilan'nain, she point out the rather hazy back shot of Lucanis seems to show a golden crow motif instead of the eye. So, either this is a costume he acquires if you complete his personal quest in a particular way, or perhaps it is the one he gets if you romance him (a bit like DA2). However, if she is right about the tarot showing the Crows is one of his outcome cards and if you encourage him to embrace his destiny as First Talon, then may be the golden crow is connected with that and indicative that Lucanis is going to return them to their original purpose of protecting the people from tyranny. That would be cool.
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Post by TabithaTH on Aug 20, 2024 14:31:57 GMT
To me the back looks female .
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Post by gervaise21 on Aug 20, 2024 14:52:57 GMT
To me the back looks female Yes, that's what I said when other people brought it up. Apparently the image in the background matches the one in the trailer where the staff explodes. Still that could be to do with blood magic and red lyrium generally. After all Zara Renata is a blood mage who uses blood magic to maintain her looks, so it could even relate to her. The cards are all mixed up so I really don't see how any of them can definitively be linked to our companions except the ones we already know about. As for the Crow card, I assume every faction has their own card too, so unless you can see another one relating to the Crows, that one is probably it. Incidentally, I love the way Lucanis' hair swirls around as he moves. Hair is going to be so much better this game.
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Post by gervaise21 on Aug 21, 2024 15:55:43 GMT
After talking myself out of my objection to Spell Blade being linked to the Crows on the Schmooples thread, because we knew even back in DAI from the War Table that the Crows were willing to work with the Inquisition against the Venatori, it suddenly hit me why everything changed from DAO and DA2 where Crows and mages were concerned, the Circles fell across Thedas. Down south the mages seemed to divide between the major groups supporting the Rebellion or the Loyalists and isolated pockets of mages just trying to survive, a number of whom joined the Inquisition once they were given the chance. Up in the Anderfels both mages and Templars not wishing to involve themselves in the fighting, sought refuge with the Grey Wardens. In Rivain the entire Circle were massacred by Templars at the beginning of the unrest. So, it would hardly be surprising that on the other side of the Rialto Bay in Antiva, the mages from the Circle there would have sought sanctuary with the Crows. Thus, there were probably quite a few expert mages to draw from for Caterina to give instruction to her favourite grandson, Lucanis, in defense against mages and magic. The Circles fell in 9:40, which was 12 years from the start of DAV. Whilst we don't know precisely his age now, I think it is likely he is in his mid-thirties (depending on how old Caterina is). This being the case, back in 9:40 he would have been in his early twenties and still perfecting his skills and it may well have been from Circle mages sheltering with the Crows that he could have learned about using spirits to aid him, so it doesn't necessarily need to have been something he only acquired after working in Tevinter. Since the Crows were active in opposing the Venatori back then, they have probably been feuding with them ever since. Lucanis just took it to another level.
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Post by lucidae on Aug 23, 2024 16:28:45 GMT
I'm very excited to hear Lucanis' sultry tones in the podcast 😌🤌
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Post by athras on Aug 24, 2024 15:23:09 GMT
The new gameplay video has Lucanis's description as "Swift and precise assassin with a demonic aura". So I guess that confirms there is indeed some actual demon connection.
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Post by Liepsnele on Aug 24, 2024 16:23:51 GMT
The new gameplay video has Lucanis's description as "Swift and precise assassin with a demonic aura". So I guess that confirms there is indeed some actual demon connection.
For sure, I went straight to this thread to see if people are theorizing about it already. One of his combat abilities is called "Abominate" too. I suppose it will be revealed quite early in the game since his tarot card and in-game description in the companion roster are not subtle about it at all.
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Post by gervaise21 on Aug 24, 2024 17:07:36 GMT
The new gameplay video has Lucanis's description as "Swift and precise assassin with a demonic aura". So I guess that confirms there is indeed some actual demon connection. One of his combat abilities is called "Abominate" too. I suppose it will be revealed quite early in the game since his tarot card and in-game description in the companion roster are not subtle about it at all. Oh dear, I was hoping for something less on the nose and that they were being unsubtle in order to give a false sense of jeopardy in getting close to our companion. Romancing a demon or someone with an onboard demon doesn't really appeal to me. I was just hoping they would be the metaphorical demons from his past which we would overcome together and he was a spirit warrior/rogue hybrid. Sigh. Well that has definitely put a damper on my enthusiasm. The revelations of the last 24 hours have not been good for me. I feel they are giving rather too much information that I'd rather not know before the game. On a more positive note, because I am an optimist by nature, Cole seemed to become rather demonic at the end of Asunder and then found his true nature again, whilst still being an assassin, which did seem rather an odd choice for a spirit of compassion (a shadow rogue would definitely have been more appropriate). So, considering Solas said that a demon is just a spirit that has has become twisted in the way it identifies itself, perhaps we can persuade Lucanis' demonic side to change back to its opposite spiritual attribute.
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Post by Liepsnele on Aug 24, 2024 17:15:07 GMT
gervaise21I feel you, I'm still hoping it's something else than outright possession if Bioware is being so open about - and Lucanis doesn't seem to be a straight up abomination, which is the case when a person gets possessed by a demon (based on known lore). Does he have a deal with a demon but is not possessed? Can't think of anything else at the moment really
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Post by midnight tea on Aug 24, 2024 17:20:28 GMT
gervaise21 I feel you, I'm still hoping it's something else than outright possession if Bioware is being so open about - and Lucanis doesn't seem to be a straight up abomination, which is the case when a person gets possessed by a demon (based on known lore). Does he have a deal with a demon but is not possessed? Can't think of anything else at the moment really Cassandra is in abomination (all Seekers are - they bond with spirits of Faith to gain their powers). So was Wynne. And we encounter Avvars in JOH who bond with spirits basically to teach the young Avvars magic.
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Post by gervaise21 on Aug 24, 2024 17:22:10 GMT
Does he have a deal with a demon but is not possessed? Can't think of anything else at the moment really Well that could be the deal if he is a Spirit Warrior/Rogue. You do a deal with a spirit to get their assistance without being outright possessed. This is usually because the spirit involved is more benign in nature but I suppose it might have been possible for Lucanis to strike a suitable bargain on the basis that the demon was happy just working with a master assassin. If the demon is basically just interested in experiencing a lot of death, it would be happy to assist Lucanis. However, as we know from Anders, the line between Justice and Vengeance can become somewhat blurred and let's face it (if you've read Wigmaker Job) Lucanis did want vengeance for the tortured slaves, not simply justice, so it could be the case of a warped Justice spirit that we are dealing with.
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Post by Liepsnele on Aug 24, 2024 17:28:00 GMT
gervaise21 I feel you, I'm still hoping it's something else than outright possession if Bioware is being so open about - and Lucanis doesn't seem to be a straight up abomination, which is the case when a person gets possessed by a demon (based on known lore). Does he have a deal with a demon but is not possessed? Can't think of anything else at the moment really Cassandra is in abomination (all Seekers are - they bond with spirits of Faith to gain their powers). So was Wynne. And we encounter Avvars in JOH who bond with spirits basically to teach the young Avvars magic. I should have been more clear, I meant possession as in possessed by a demon (the demon grandson; demonic aura) not by a benevolent spirit. Edit: Lucanis could have been possessed by a long time for all we know. He has very keen senses in TN and can tell when a mage taps into fade. Add to that being called a demon by Talons.
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Post by gervaise21 on Aug 24, 2024 17:29:32 GMT
Cassandra is in abomination. So was Wynne. And we encounter Avvars in JOH who bond with spirits basically to teach the young Avvars magic. There is a problem with terminology. Originally an abomination seemed to mean a mage, or other mortal, who had completely succumbed to the demon possessing them, twisting their body to reflect their wrecked mind. However, you are quite correct, we have now experienced a number of different examples of characters in the games with a cohabiting spirit that is more of co-operative relationship than the spirit dominating the person. The supreme example was, of course, Flemeth and it is entirely possible that is also now going to be true of Morrigan, so perhaps I won't write off Lucanis altogether, just treat him with caution. At least forewarned is forearmed, I suppose. Thinking about it, this is better than being all enthused about the prospect of romancing Anders after DAA, then getting to DA2 and thinking "what the f**k have you done to yourself?"
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Post by gervaise21 on Aug 24, 2024 17:32:29 GMT
I should have been more clear, I meant possession as in possessed by a demon (the demon grandson; demonic aura) not by a benevolent spirit As I've pointed out, perhaps a better comparison would be Anders and Justice. Justice started off as a benign spirit and they went into their arrangement with the best of intentions but Anders claimed it was his violent emotions that twisted Justice into Vengeance. However, perhaps it is equally possible that a demon could be altered back into its original spirit form through positive emotions acting on it.
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Post by midnight tea on Aug 24, 2024 17:46:31 GMT
Cassandra is in abomination (all Seekers are - they bond with spirits of Faith to gain their powers). So was Wynne. And we encounter Avvars in JOH who bond with spirits basically to teach the young Avvars magic. I should have been more clear, I meant possession as in possessed by a demon (the demon grandson; demonic aura) not by a benevolent spirit. Edit: Lucanis could have been possessed by a long time for all we know. He has very keen senses in TN and can tell when a mage taps into fade. Add to that being called a demon by Talons. We've known since Inquisition that spirit and demon are effectively the same - and while 'the demon' is supposed to have a pejorative meaning, it doesn't mean that their nature is truly understood or unchangeable. IMO that's where we're probably heading, story-wise.
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Post by athras on Aug 24, 2024 17:56:56 GMT
Yeah, I'm not exactly happy about the demon thing either. I was an immediate fan after the Wigmaker job and thought he would be interesting just with his backstory there. But that is also the reason I'm gonna trust the writers on this and go along with whatever they cooked. I have to believe they came up with some interesting new spin on the mortal and spirit connection and it won't be just an Anders 2.0 or repeat of the other spirit-connected companions we've had in the past.
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Post by athras on Aug 24, 2024 18:10:58 GMT
On the bright side, his little smirk when you choose him (credit to Lostiel on Tumblr)
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Post by gervaise21 on Aug 24, 2024 19:15:28 GMT
On the bright side, his little smirk when you choose him If he does that enough times in game, not just in the companion selector, I'm going to find him difficult to resist.
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Post by fraggle on Aug 24, 2024 19:20:25 GMT
Ever since I saw the purple wings on Lucanis I had to think of Dorian's necromancy (also... purple btw ), since they look rather spirit-y. I doubt they'd go for Lucanis being actually dead and brought back to life by a spirit. But maybe it's possible for him having been on the brink of death and being saved by binding? A spirit/demon connection could be interesting in any case. I admit I have not yet read his story in Tevinter Nights, but it's actually the next one I'm reading since I bought the book recently.
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Post by colfoley on Aug 24, 2024 19:52:57 GMT
I still wouldn't be sure of all this, could be a red hearring/ propaganda to scare the crap out of his opponents. Though it would explain the purple wings rather nicely and occam's razor and all the rest.
Though if this explanation does hold up there is already one significant way he is different then any character we have seen mainly in the series, namely Anders and Wynn, in this regard...he's a normie, which is something I have been looking forward to seeing since DA 2. See back then Cullen gave a rather detailed speech about why the Circles were neccessary, mainly resolving how dangerous mages were even despite their best intentions when they become abominations essentially making them into nuclear weapons. And to be fair to him there is more then ample evidence in the games and extended media to bare out the trust of his point, even if he might've been exagerating slightly. But this did beg the question in my mind, especially as a way to maybe add nuance to and poke holes in the Chantry's logic...what would happen if a normal but still very dangerous person gets possessed by a demon? We've heard of it, we have seen some small examples through the series...I think. But it seems that demons seem to favor mages, perhaps for obvious reasons. So this will be the first mainline example of a pretty significant character facing demonic possession. And while such a thing might make the vast majority of my Rooks uncomfortable it would also perhaps be the first time we have seen a demonic entity in a potentially positive allied light. Like maybe Lucanis has it under control or maybe its actively working with him for reasons and has its own reasons for 'guarding the Veil.'
Other thing worth pointing out which could make this intense, and again differentiating him from both Wynne and Anders since they were on rails with their possessions (not that I am complaining both of them had great stories) but maybe this is going to reference and be one of Veilguard's answer to...uh...the hardening/ softening choice. Which again, if we are talking about a demon, provides a lot of juicy possibilities because we have seen an example of a human influence corrupting a spirit of Justice into a demon of vengeance, and vice versa, but we have never had an opprotunity to 'purify' a demon of...Pride?...into one of wisdom. So while if its on rails it can still be effective and given Varric's line about 'bringing darkness to the daylight' that is a possibility hopefully we have the choice to influence Lucanis and the demon to say, give in and double down on the negative aspect for our own ends, or try and redeam its nature...and to an extent his. All of this provides in my mind some fascinating possibilities, we'll just see if my Rook(s) can get over their initial distate.
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