grallon
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Post by grallon on Nov 4, 2016 16:23:14 GMT
Yes I know I'm presuming but if DA4 goes ahead, and considering the strong hints the action would take place in Tevinter, I think it makes for a nice working title.
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On BSN Prime I had once suggested that IMO the ideal starting setup for 'Imperium' would be for the protag and his team to work undercover. Specifically the PC would be one of the few sleeper agents, dispatched to Tevinter by Leliana before the disbandment/neutering of the Inquisition, to keep tabs on the situation in Northern Thedas (the Tevinter resistance, Movran the under, etc). These were sort if implied in some of the war table missions.
Our operative(s), simple passive informant(s) until then, would be 'activated' by the Shadow Inquisition (which would exist regardless of whether or not the 'official' Inquisition still exists under the Chantry) and given complete autonomy to accomplish their goals. There would be no direct contact between the field agents and the handlers (the Inquisitor and his inner circle), even though some of the handlers could, from time to time, and under disguise, join the action for specific missions (though the only mission the Inquisitor himself would join is the last one, when the traitor has been located and cornered).
Using such premise, what do you think said goals should be and in what order of importance?
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Post by vertigomez on Nov 4, 2016 16:30:41 GMT
Eh, I don't want to be dispatched to Tevinter. I'd rather be a native.
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Post by PapaCharlie9 on Nov 4, 2016 18:56:17 GMT
I came to this thread expecting a music video featuring Imagine Dragons. Like this one I agree with your take on the framework for DA4. I came to very similar conclusions. Here's my current theory: Act I: You are a covert operative in Tevinter. You've got a cover story for your race/class background, but you are also spying on suspected Solas sympathizers. The usual side-quests to pick up companions and such. Maybe you help repel an invasion of Qunari. Act I ends when you uncover part of Solas's plot -- some major ritual is being planned. Act II: Through many trials and boss battles, you fight your way to the location of Solas's ritual. You attempt to stop it and capture Solas, but you are only partially successful. The Veil now has big holes in it, where the material world and the Fade freely mix, like in old Arlathan. This is not like the rifts of DAI, this is like all of Minrathous being shoved into the Fade. Also, because the ritual was disrupted, the Evanuris are set free. In the resulting cataclysm (localized, other parts of the world are completely untouched), you and Solas are trapped together. Big choice time: you either agree to team up with Solas to fight the Evanuris, or you remain sworn enemies. Act III: Either way, you have a running fight with the Evanuris. You have to gather allies. Maybe you ally with the Titans. Maybe with the kingdoms and institutions (Tevinter Chantry, Antivan Crows). Maybe, through some complicated scheme that makes sense at the time, you unleash a new Blight in the Anderfels. Either way, Solas is mortally wounded and finally sees the error of his ways. Maybe you have a choice about killing him yourself or rescuing him. Either way, he tells you how to repair the Veil, which -- with the help of your new allies -- will defeat the Evanuris. Big finale.
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Post by gervaise21 on Nov 4, 2016 19:21:58 GMT
I'm not sure that the big showdown with Solas will occur next game or at least not until the very end, when possibly it will finish with the Veil dropping regardless, setting up the situation in DA5 when you confront the Evanuris.
My own hope for DA4 is that everyone (no matter their race) will start off as a slave. Yes, I know it is claimed there are no dwarf slaves but I'm pretty sure that the Ambassadoria is not going to be worried if Tevinter has castless slaves. Anyway, being a slave would mean you would be in a position to be approached by various factions, including likely Dorian acting on behalf of the Shadow Inquisition. You would also be aware of the Qunari agents. Among the various plot threads you might be involved in:
Solving the murder of Dorian's father - leads on to uncovering an old god cult specifically worshipping Razikale (the patroness of Minrathous) and Lusacan, who they claim has started communicating again and encouraging the search for an ancient artefact that will aid his return.
Slave rebellion and civil unrest that precedes a full blown Qunari invasion. The unrest is being caused both by Qun agents and Solas agents', the latter doing so in order to distract attention from what they are engaged in on his behalf.
Sent to prevent the occupation of Qarinus by the Qun (very strategically important place)
Uncovering the secrets of Seheron, meeting with the Fog Warriors, discovering an ancient temple in the jungle with information about the original Neromenians and why they came to the north from over the sea.
In the course of the above, build up a number of clues that give the location of the real ancient site of Arlathan (according to Maryden it is under the sea). Wherever it is, you have to travel there to locate the artefact that is being sought by Solas' agents and the old god cult. Discover the true identity of the old gods.
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Post by BearKingReborn on Nov 4, 2016 19:23:19 GMT
I can see Solas manipulating the Magisterium into thinking his plan is actually about turning the Black City gold again, or allowing them unfettered access into th Fade, when really he is just using their power to help tear down the Veil.
Agree about repelling Qunari invasion, or at least, the events of the game being framed by said invasion.
As to the climax of the game, I hope the final battle isn't against Solas, but rather an agent of his, and when it's over , we find Solas too weak from trying to bring down the Veil and exact terrible retribution.
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Post by grallon on Nov 4, 2016 21:04:15 GMT
I can see Solas manipulating the Magisterium into thinking his plan is actually about turning the Black City gold again, or allowing them unfettered access into th Fade, when really he is just using their power to help tear down the Veil. ... I really like that idea. And I agree with Gervaise that ' Imperium' should be the staging ground for the real showdown in DA5 (Dragon Age Apocalypse?)* where Solas would meet his fate by helping us defeat the Evanuris (In fact I believe the original story of the DA universe was inspired by the arc of Gerald Tarrant in the Coldfire Trilogy - where he sacrifices himself at the end). Slavery could also be an interesting opening position. I've framed my initial post to include the Inquisitor somehow without stealing the show from the new protag (because I want *closure* darn it!). I can see how Tevinter, assaulted from within by a rebellion (not just slaves but also the disenfranchised who are second class citizens when compared to the mages) and from without by the Qunari, would mirror the situation in Southern Thedas during DAI - where the appearance of the Breach only highlighted the decaying social order rather than caused it. I think the 4th game should focus on the efforts to infiltrate the rebellion with a complex web of motivations where the Qunari try to channel it to soften up the Imperium's defenses before they launch their invasion; where the Magisterium attempts to use it to forestall said invasion; where Solas manipulates it to hide his own quest and where we are trying to balance all the factions so that we achieve our own goals: locate Solas and his lieutenants, weaken the Magisterium so the reformers can seize control and delay the invasion since we'll need a strong reformed Tevinter, and a strong Par Vollen, to help face the real threat which would emerge in DA5. ----- * From Wiki:
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Post by vertigomez on Nov 4, 2016 21:39:03 GMT
I want to see some delicious friction between Calpernia and Maevaris (and Dorian and the rest of the Lucerni). They're reformers who want what's best for Tevinter, but their idea of what's best and HOW that should happen are informed by the fact that they come from opposite ends of the social strata. I think Cal's fate was left deliberately ambiguous for a reason. Her determination to Make Tevinter Great Again ( imsorry) coupled with her juicy backstory in Paying the Ferryman and Marius showing up in Magekiller... yeah, I think we're going to see her again.
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Post by BearKingReborn on Nov 4, 2016 23:12:40 GMT
Definitely agree. People doing opposing things for the same "noble" reasons make for really compelling narratives.
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Post by Walter Black on Nov 5, 2016 17:34:30 GMT
I want to see some delicious friction between Calpernia and Maevaris (and Dorian and the rest of the Lucerni). They're reformers who want what's best for Tevinter, but their idea of what's best and HOW that should happen are informed by the fact that they come from opposite ends of the social strata. I think Cal's fate was left deliberately ambiguous for a reason. Her determination to Make Tevinter Great Again ( imsorry) coupled with her juicy backstory in Paying the Ferryman and Marius showing up in Magekiller... yeah, I think we're going to see her again. While I would like to see Calpernia as a faction leader we could ally with or oppose, I really, really DO NOT WANT her as a Companion . Patrick Weekes has dropped several hints that Maevaris could be a Companion, and if that's true, we would have TWO female Tevinter human mages. Sure, Cal's background as an ex-slave revolutionary contrasts her with Mae, but not enough in my eyes. If we get the same party make up as Inquisition, 3 of each class, that leaves potentially ONE unique mage. Do you really want to include Calpernia, who admittedly I only found mildly interesting, at the expense of so many other untapped possibilities? What about a renegade Ancient Elf or even Evanaris, an Avvar shaman, Rivanni Seer, an escaped Saarebas, or hell maybe even VALTA?! Also, it's not like a new character couldn't also be an ex-slave mage revolutionary; Tevinter takes slaves from all over Thedas, and Bioware reuses character archetypes all the time. We could have an ex-slave mage who is Elven or Qunari, still providing the drama while being a new character in their own right. I know Calpernia has her fans, but having both her and Maevaris just wouldn't have enough narrative contrast in my opinion.
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Post by vertigomez on Nov 5, 2016 18:04:20 GMT
I want to see some delicious friction between Calpernia and Maevaris (and Dorian and the rest of the Lucerni). They're reformers who want what's best for Tevinter, but their idea of what's best and HOW that should happen are informed by the fact that they come from opposite ends of the social strata. I think Cal's fate was left deliberately ambiguous for a reason. Her determination to Make Tevinter Great Again ( imsorry) coupled with her juicy backstory in Paying the Ferryman and Marius showing up in Magekiller... yeah, I think we're going to see her again. While I would like to see Calpernia as a faction leader we could ally with or oppose, I really, really DO NOT WANT her as a Companion . Patrick Weekes has dropped several hints that Maevaris could be a Companion, and if that's true, we would have TWO female Tevinter human mages. Sure, Cal's background as an ex-slave revolutionary contrasts her with Mae, but not enough in my eyes. If we get the same party make up as Inquisition, 3 of each class, that leaves potentially ONE unique mage. Do you really want to include Calpernia, who admittedly I only found mildly interesting, at the expense of so many other untapped possibilities? What about a renegade Ancient Elf or even Evanaris, an Avvar shaman, Rivanni Seer, an escaped Saarebas, or hell maybe even VALTA?! Also, it's not like a new character couldn't also be an ex-slave mage revolutionary; Tevinter takes slaves from all over Thedas, and Bioware reuses character archetypes all the time. We could have an ex-slave mage who is Elven or Qunari, still providing the drama while being a new character in their own right. I know Calpernia has her fans, but having both her and Maevaris just wouldn't have enough narrative contrast in my opinion. Eh, I think they contrast plenty. It's not just that they're from opposite social classes; Mae is playful and snarky and socially adept, Calpernia's pragmatic and no-nonsense and frankly kind of endearingly awkward, if I do say so myself. But whether I'd like to see something has no bearing on whether the devs actually do it, so I wouldn't worry too much..? I'd love to see an escaped Saarebas, too, or a Rivaini seer. But at this point it's pure speculation. We have no idea if there'll be three companion mages as in DAI, two as in DAO, or two OR three as in DA2.
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Post by Walter Black on Nov 5, 2016 18:39:33 GMT
Eh, I think they contrast plenty. It's not just that they're from opposite social classes; Mae is playful and snarky and socially adept, Calpernia's pragmatic and no-nonsense and frankly kind of endearingly awkward, if I do say so myself. But whether I'd like to see something has no bearing on whether the devs actually do it, so I wouldn't worry too much..? I'd love to see an escaped Saarebas, too, or a Rivaini seer. But at this point it's pure speculation. We have no idea if there'll be three companion mages as in DAI, two as in DAO, or two OR three as in DA2. Thing is, Weekes, David Gaider and World of Thedas Volume 2 all alluded that Maevaris can be quite ruthless when she needs to be. For all Mae's hope of a reformed Tevinter, I wouldn't be surprised if her Companion Quest reveals that Magister Tilani got her hands dirty when Dorian couldn't. Yet another thing that could render Calpernia redundant as a Companion. We'll just have to wait and see ...
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Post by Heimdall on Nov 5, 2016 18:48:58 GMT
I'm just going to quote the dual protagonist scenario I posted a thread about a few months ago:
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Post by gervaise21 on Nov 6, 2016 12:34:00 GMT
So far as companions go, it would be interesting to have someone from the Soporati class, or a Laetans mage, so they are not from the favoured higher echelon of society but not from the lowest rank of slave either. Alternatively someone who became liberati officially, for whatever reason.
For a long time I've wanted a Rivaini seer as a companion. If they did this, perhaps it could be a male seer who left Rivaini society because of the limitations placed on their ambitions because they were male. Rivaini society believes that women are best suited to rule, so all decisions involving the welfare of their communities rest solely with the eldest women. It would be an interesting twist on gender discrimination to have a male character who suffered the effects in that way.
Most of all though, I'd like either a Fog Warrior or Fog Dancer as a companion. That would open up a whole new cultural perspective for us to explore and would mean they favoured neither Tevinter nor the Qun. I've been fascinated by them ever since Fenris mentioned them back in DA2 and reading the entry about them in World of Thedas has only increased my interest.
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Post by cloud9 on Nov 14, 2016 6:01:49 GMT
I want to be a rebel to burn Tevinter to the ground.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 15, 2016 10:45:40 GMT
Idk. I wish we'd get origins back... But no. EA refuses.
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Post by Moondreamer on Nov 16, 2016 14:21:04 GMT
I'm just going to quote the dual protagonist scenario I posted a thread about a few months ago: I would so totally play that. I love the four protagonist background idea. I just don't see a Qunari going around Minrathous in the middle of a war without being stopped
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Post by Ponendus on Nov 21, 2016 1:03:27 GMT
Oh I imagine it frequently. I would be an extremely happy little nug if that happened.
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Post by Ponendus on Nov 21, 2016 1:08:21 GMT
My own hope for DA4 is that everyone (no matter their race) will start off as a slave. Yes, I know it is claimed there are no dwarf slaves but I'm pretty sure that the Ambassadoria is not going to be worried if Tevinter has castless slaves. Anyway, being a slave would mean you would be in a position to be approached by various factions, including likely Dorian acting on behalf of the Shadow Inquisition. You would also be aware of the Qunari agents. I have had similar thoughts, however I would like to see the option of either starting as a slave, a slave owner, or a slave-trader. Seeing the fury and extremity of the slave world from multiple different perspectives would be fascinating from a role play perspective. All your plot ideas listed are really interesting, thanks for sharing them.
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Post by Heimdall on Nov 21, 2016 1:10:22 GMT
I'm just going to quote the dual protagonist scenario I posted a thread about a few months ago: I would so totally play that. I love the four protagonist background idea. I just don't see a Qunari going around Minrathous in the middle of a war without being stopped Well, there are viddethari in the qunari ranks and there are qunari mercenaries around. Besides, that's why the new PC would have some proof of employment from Dorian with them.
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Post by doflamingodonquijote on Nov 23, 2016 18:18:20 GMT
Who told you DA4 is in Tevinter,for all I know it could be in Ferelden.
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Post by vit246 on Nov 23, 2016 23:46:10 GMT
Who told you DA4 is in Tevinter,for all I know it could be in Ferelden. Lets never go back to that uncultured backwater kingdom again.
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Post by doflamingodonquijote on Nov 24, 2016 14:26:52 GMT
Who told you DA4 is in Tevinter,for all I know it could be in Ferelden. Lets never go back to that uncultured backwater kingdom again. Ferelden is a land of primitives barbarians ,look at their political system,they chose rulers based on a duel......
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Post by gervaise21 on Nov 24, 2016 19:58:46 GMT
How do we know it is going to be in Tevinter? Well that knife being plunged into the middle of Tevinter would seem to be something of a clue, plus I'm guessing they will want to get action away from southern Thedas, thus avoiding the complications associated with different world states, since we won't have to come into contact with anyone from previous games unless they choose to do so. There is also the fact that Dorian becomes Tevinter Ambassador and a Magister regardless of your actions and every scenario has him heading back to Tevinter on a permanent basis, suggesting he is likely to be the link with earlier events.
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Post by cardbutton on Nov 25, 2016 20:39:44 GMT
LOL! Weird, this Dragon Age 4: Imperium is the exact name I used for my Dual PC project, which admittedly I'm on a bit of hiatus working on since school is kicking my teeth in atm. Great minds think alike it seems. But yes, I like the concept and the title! bsn.boards.net/thread/905/dumb-ideas-transferred-dual-storyline
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