inherit
1130
0
Dec 11, 2024 19:48:04 GMT
530
wickedcool
772
Aug 22, 2016 13:08:32 GMT
August 2016
wickedcool
|
Post by wickedcool on Jul 31, 2024 22:38:14 GMT
So we know that blood magic didn’t fit but whatever happened to shape changing magic. Morrigan does it in dai. Just curious
|
|
Andraste_Reborn
N4
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 1,894 Likes: 8,338
inherit
469
0
8,338
Andraste_Reborn
1,894
August 2016
andrastereborn
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by Andraste_Reborn on Jul 31, 2024 23:18:34 GMT
I mean, it hasn't been an option for player since DAO. It's still a thing in the world - in fact, we're about to meet another shapeshifter in game, the Dalish Veil Jumper Irelin.
If I had to guess why they haven't brought it back, it mgiht be that it sounded cool but in practice it just wasn't that fun to play. Every other DAO Mage specialisation was better. As for why that is, I imagine it's difficult to balance a bunch of different forms, and none of the ones available to us really compared to the raw power of a DAO mage. There are ways to make a good shapeshifter build, but they involve spending maybe 10% of the time actually shapeshifted, which seems to be missing the point a bit. Also, we could never do any of the fun stuff Morrigan gets to do like turning into a bird, let alone a dragon.
|
|
inherit
1274
0
3,443
sageoflife
1,579
August 2016
sageoflife
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by sageoflife on Aug 1, 2024 0:25:21 GMT
In addition to the gameplay problems, Shapechanging just seems non-existent in the Circle. It appears exclusive to hedge mages and the Dalish, so there is no one who can teach it to Hawke and no one reputable that can teach it to the Inquisitor; Mage Lavellan could theoretically have learned it from their Keeper, but they can't restrict a specialization to one race.
|
|
inherit
∯ Oh Loredy...
455
0
31,186
gervaise21
13,101
August 2016
gervaise21
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights
|
Post by gervaise21 on Aug 1, 2024 7:36:37 GMT
There are ways to make a good shapeshifter build, but they involve spending maybe 10% of the time actually shapeshifted, which seems to be missing the point a bit. Also, we could never do any of the fun stuff Morrigan gets to do like turning into a bird, let alone a dragon. This was the problem with the shapeshifter, we never got to transform into anything that was strong enough to offset not being able to cast spells at the same time. If we could have transformed into a dracolisk and spat fire at people (as the ones the Archon breeds do) that would have been something, or be able to fly above the battlefield and beat our opponents to the ground with our claws and wings, as dragons do, then it would make it sufficiently effective that we could forgo the casting of spells. However, other than aesthetics and a cool sounding specialism, there never seemed to be sufficient reason to take it over one of the others. Now years ago I played a D&D video game in which we were facing an enemy that was only vulnerable to bludgeoning attacks. All my party had blades or bows and magic wasn't effective. Then all of a sudden one of my companions turned into a massive white tiger and several blows with its paws later the battle was won. It was amazing because he had never let on about his special ability but frustrating because he instantly dropped all his gear on the transformation, so we had to pick it all up and return it after he transformed back. Thus, we only used his ability sparingly from then on in specific battle situations but it was worth having. That is what was missing from the specialism in Dragon Age, a usefulness against specific foes not vulnerable to anything else. This was the case with Morrigan in DAI but never during our time in DAO.
|
|
inherit
1033
0
Member is Online
37,525
colfoley
19,292
Aug 17, 2016 10:19:37 GMT
August 2016
colfoley
|
Post by colfoley on Aug 1, 2024 7:43:47 GMT
The question answered itself in the statement. Nothing happened. The most recent game, Inquisition, still had shape shifting magic.
|
|
sjsharp2010
N7
Go Team!
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition, Dragon Age The Veilguard
Posts: 13,105 Likes: 21,183
inherit
2309
0
21,183
sjsharp2010
Go Team!
13,105
December 2016
sjsharp2010
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition, Dragon Age The Veilguard
|
Post by sjsharp2010 on Aug 1, 2024 15:06:41 GMT
I mean, it hasn't been an option for player since DAO. It's still a thing in the world - in fact, we're about to meet another shapeshifter in game, the Dalish Veil Jumper Irelin. If I had to guess why they haven't brought it back, it mgiht be that it sounded cool but in practice it just wasn't that fun to play. Every other DAO Mage specialisation was better. As for why that is, I imagine it's difficult to balance a bunch of different forms, and none of the ones available to us really compared to the raw power of a DAO mage. There are ways to make a good shapeshifter build, but they involve spending maybe 10% of the time actually shapeshifted, which seems to be missing the point a bit. Also, we could never do any of the fun stuff Morrigan gets to do like turning into a bird, let alone a dragon. Yea hI neve rused i tmuc hbecause o fth eamoun to ftime i ttakes t ochange form .I twas a cool idwa in concep tI think but nothing more. Plus I think i twas said even in DAO that it's a rare form of magic that not many mages know about let alone know how to perform .Whic hexplains I think a bit why we don' t have the option
|
|
inherit
∯ Oh Loredy...
455
0
31,186
gervaise21
13,101
August 2016
gervaise21
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights
|
Post by gervaise21 on Aug 1, 2024 16:05:01 GMT
Shapechanging just seems non-existent in the Circle. It appears exclusive to hedge mages and the Dalish, so there is no one who can teach it to Hawke and no one reputable that can teach it to the Inquisitor; Mage Lavellan could theoretically have learned it from their Keeper, but they can't restrict a specialization to one race. Plus I think i twas said even in DAO that it's a rare form of magic that not many mages know about let alone know how to perform . Yes, this is an occasion when the writers are being consistent with the lore in not continuing to include the class among either our heroes or our companions. You clearly need to be taught by someone skilled in it, as we were by Morrigan and she was by Flemeth. There were no shapeshifters in Sabrae clan, so that accounts for Merrill not having it and likely there were none in Lavellan clan either. Whilst theoretically they could have asked Morrigan to teach the Inquisitor, by the time she is recruited we probably already had our specialism but regardless would have to know about the ability to request the instruction and, outside of Leliana, no one knew about Morrigan's specialism. We may yet have another temporary companion use the skill though, since Irelin is a talented shapeshifter and she is a member of the Veil Jumpers.
|
|
inherit
12404
0
Sept 28, 2024 21:44:44 GMT
272
celestielf
84
Jan 30, 2023 18:24:05 GMT
January 2023
celestielf
|
Post by celestielf on Aug 1, 2024 19:00:10 GMT
And even though Irelin is supposedly Dalish, it's also possible there's more going on with her, like a connection to ancient elves. It seems that shapeshifting was quite common in ancient times and certain forms (dragons) were gatekept by the Evanuris.
My issue with shape-shifting in any rpg I've ever played is that it tends to be really good at low levels but mediocre at high levels, because spellcasting always becomes better than being able to punch stuff as a bear or something.
|
|
inherit
∯ Oh Loredy...
455
0
31,186
gervaise21
13,101
August 2016
gervaise21
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights
|
Post by gervaise21 on Aug 1, 2024 19:54:21 GMT
My issue with shape-shifting in any rpg I've ever played is that it tends to be really good at low levels but mediocre at high levels, because spellcasting always becomes better than being able to punch stuff as a bear or something. Exactly, which is why I didn't take the specialism myself and hardly ever got Morrigan to use it after she acquired her second specialism. It could be really effective if you could take bigger, fiercer, faster creatures at a higher level that can actually do serious damage. The fact that Irelin could shapeshift was another tick in the box of "suspicious" for me when I read she was doing that in Tevinter Nights. The only person I had previously met who knew how to shapeshift was Morrigan and she was connected with the ancient elves via Flemeth/Mythal. None of the Dalish I encountered had this ability, not even in their multi-player, so it did seem odd how suddenly a member of this "Dalish" clan was so proficient in it.
|
|
jennica
N3
The Rainbow Destined to Burn
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Posts: 694 Likes: 1,533
inherit
6523
0
1,533
jennica
The Rainbow Destined to Burn
694
Mar 29, 2017 10:24:07 GMT
March 2017
jennica
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
|
Post by jennica on Aug 1, 2024 20:25:27 GMT
The fact that Irelin could shapeshift was another tick in the box of "suspicious" for me when I read she was doing that in Tevinter Nights. The only person I had previously met who knew how to shapeshift was Morrigan and she was connected with the ancient elves via Flemeth/Mythal. None of the Dalish I encountered had this ability, not even in their multi-player, so it did seem odd how suddenly a member of this "Dalish" clan was so proficient in it. Tbf, Veil Jumpers operate in Arlathan forest and she might've simply uncovered some kind of ancient elven knowledge about shapeshifting.
|
|
eskiya
N2
Posts: 81 Likes: 153
inherit
2382
0
Nov 14, 2024 19:39:20 GMT
153
eskiya
81
Dec 11, 2016 17:53:33 GMT
December 2016
eskiya
|
Post by eskiya on Aug 1, 2024 21:02:46 GMT
To be fair, I don't think shapechanging was very popular? It didn't really have any advantages over the other specialties.
|
|
inherit
1274
0
3,443
sageoflife
1,579
August 2016
sageoflife
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by sageoflife on Aug 1, 2024 21:24:31 GMT
The fact that Irelin could shapeshift was another tick in the box of "suspicious" for me when I read she was doing that in Tevinter Nights. The only person I had previously met who knew how to shapeshift was Morrigan and she was connected with the ancient elves via Flemeth/Mythal. None of the Dalish I encountered had this ability, not even in their multi-player, so it did seem odd how suddenly a member of this "Dalish" clan was so proficient in it. Tbf, Veil Jumpers operate in Arlathan forest and she might've simply uncovered some kind of ancient elven knowledge about shapeshifting. There's precedent with some mages rediscovering the Arcane Warrior that way.
|
|
theascendent
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
PSN: The Ascendent
Posts: 622 Likes: 823
inherit
9275
0
Dec 11, 2024 22:31:45 GMT
823
theascendent
622
Aug 28, 2017 10:17:49 GMT
August 2017
theascendent
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
The Ascendent
|
Post by theascendent on Aug 1, 2024 23:27:40 GMT
It's more useful for utility than combat. We are not like Druids from Baldur's Gate 3, gameplay seems entirely focused on combat and socialising with NPC's. No creative or imaginative use of animal forms/shapes here.
|
|
inherit
1398
0
4,633
Absafraginlootly
"Abso-fraggin-lutely!" ~ Captain John Sheridan and Satai Delenn
1,666
September 2016
absafraginlootly
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
|
Post by Absafraginlootly on Aug 2, 2024 4:53:47 GMT
The problem with shapeshifting on spell casting classes I find is that when I play a spell caster it's because i want to cast spells, which the shapeshifting typically precludes. I've never played a dnd druid that used shape shifting in combat for this reason.
The shapes usually aren't as good as playing a martial class either, because then the class would be overpowered.
On the other hand I enjoyed the hell out of a character who turned into animals in a superhero ttrpg, but that was her whole thing, all her abilities were connected to it.
I'd love a hedge mage class which doesn't have traditional spells but channels all their magic into other powerful effects like Shapeshifting. Really give it centre stage.
But it seems like all the powerful god mages could probably Shapeshift, and so does Dalish mage Irelin, so it's gonna stay a mage spec i imagine. Whether or not the player has access to it.
|
|