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Post by flyingovertrout on Sept 20, 2024 19:50:29 GMT
It did surprise me, how negative the diction was for blood magic. Solas was much more neutral in that past, but I suppose it could've been a result of a less adversarial relationship with Inquisitor as compared to Rook. Yeah the context here is quite different than Solas sneakily trying to just come off as a hedge mage in DAI. Here he's mask-off and also being accused of using it nefariously. But he's always been personally repulsed by anything that interferes with his connection to the Fade.
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Post by illuminated11 on Sept 20, 2024 19:53:15 GMT
I'm a 2D/3D artist, I see where you're coming from. But if the entire internet's reaction to the Qunari is a resounding "ugly", then it probably is time to question design choices. There absolutely is such a thing as bad creature and character design. Please don't confuse vocal parts of the Internet with the entire Internet. People are entitled to their opinion, and I've seen different people varied opinion about what exactly they don't find appealing in DAVe Qunari, but from what I saw most of people who declare that the Qunari are downright "ugly" are usually the same people who say that Veilguard looks like Fortnite or MMO. Like, I personally don't have much of an issue with the new Qunari design. I don't think it's bad. They are creatures with giant horns on their heads, and those horns have a very wide base covered in skin - and this is Bioware's interpretation of how that'd look. Ehh I'm usually in agreement with you, but this is one where we differ pretty majorly. It's true that most people probably won't care, but most people probably won't even pick qunari, instead going human or elf. And I don't mind the ram bones structure and wide forehead, but the skin just seems way too baby smooth. They don't need to look like the Arishok, but it'd be nice to have Inquisiton-level roughness around the horns. Ghil Dirthalen showed us a qunari she tried to make look roughened, and while it was an improvement, it still looked off. I really enjoy playing as qunari so it's a bitter pill to swallow. That's where I'm at: the people most penalized by this stylistic choice are the people who actually like past qunari.
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Post by midnight tea on Sept 20, 2024 19:53:57 GMT
It did surprise me, how negative the diction was for blood magic. Solas was much more neutral in that past, but I suppose it could've been a result of a less adversarial relationship with Inquisitor as compared to Rook. Well, he's given a healer who uses own blood to close someone's wound as an example of good use of blood magic - controlling someone through blood magic is another thing entirely. Also: Solas says that a few drops of Rook's blood was enough to establish a tentative connection. So... I have to wonder what sort of connection he has with Varric??? (unless, of course, there are other variables here at play).
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Post by midnight tea on Sept 20, 2024 20:06:48 GMT
Please don't confuse vocal parts of the Internet with the entire Internet. People are entitled to their opinion, and I've seen different people varied opinion about what exactly they don't find appealing in DAVe Qunari, but from what I saw most of people who declare that the Qunari are downright "ugly" are usually the same people who say that Veilguard looks like Fortnite or MMO. Like, I personally don't have much of an issue with the new Qunari design. I don't think it's bad. They are creatures with giant horns on their heads, and those horns have a very wide base covered in skin - and this is Bioware's interpretation of how that'd look. Ehh I'm usually in agreement with you, but this is one where we differ pretty majorly. It's true that most people probably won't care, but most people probably won't even pick qunari, instead going human or elf. And I don't mind the ram bones structure and wide forehead, but the skin just seems way too baby smooth. They don't need to look like the Arishok, but it'd be nice to have Inquisiton-level roughness around the horns. Ghil Dirthalen showed us a qunari she tried to make look roughened, and while it was an improvement, it still looked off. I really enjoy playing as qunari so it's a bitter pill to swallow. That's where I'm at: the people most penalized by this stylistic choice are the people who actually like past qunari. See, but you have a specific issue - you'd prefer there's more roughness around horn area, which is fine (IMO the roughness in Inquisition stemmed largely from... well, roughness. Which is a 3D texturing term for shininess. As we know the skin in DAI was very shiny/oily. Take that shininess away, and they start look a lot like in Veilguard). You're not a person jumping into conversation to be like "Qunari ugly!!"
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Post by midnight tea on Sept 20, 2024 20:10:47 GMT
It did surprise me, how negative the diction was for blood magic. Solas was much more neutral in that past, but I suppose it could've been a result of a less adversarial relationship with Inquisitor as compared to Rook. Yeah the context here is quite different than Solas sneakily trying to just come off as a hedge mage in DAI. Here he's mask-off and also being accused of using it nefariously. But he's always been personally repulsed by anything that interferes with his connection to the Fade. I do have to wonder what are we going to learn more specifically about how blood magic likely interferes with Fade connection, and why? I've listened to John Epler's interview with Ghil Dirthalen, and he mentioned that we're going to learn a lot of things that we were only speculating about before, but there are going to be new things introduced as well that'll make our heads reel again. That even Solas, who knows the Fade so well, only knows so much about it. (personally, I really want to know who the Executors are!)
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Post by illuminated11 on Sept 20, 2024 20:12:26 GMT
Ehh I'm usually in agreement with you, but this is one where we differ pretty majorly. It's true that most people probably won't care, but most people probably won't even pick qunari, instead going human or elf. And I don't mind the ram bones structure and wide forehead, but the skin just seems way too baby smooth. They don't need to look like the Arishok, but it'd be nice to have Inquisiton-level roughness around the horns. Ghil Dirthalen showed us a qunari she tried to make look roughened, and while it was an improvement, it still looked off. I really enjoy playing as qunari so it's a bitter pill to swallow. That's where I'm at: the people most penalized by this stylistic choice are the people who actually like past qunari. See, but you have a specific issue - you'd prefer there's more roughness around horn area, which is fine (IMO the roughness in Inquisition stemmed largely from... well, roughness. Which is a 3D texturing term for shininess. As we know the skin in DAI was very shiny/oily. Take that shininess away, and they start look a lot like in Veilguard). You're not a person jumping into conversation to be like "Qunari ugly!!" Can you break this down for me? I'm not an expert on 3D modelling by any stretch of the imagination, but when I look at an qunari inquisitor, the roughness to me stems from differing the coloration around the horns (it's darker) and the details in the forehead textures. Inquisiton definitely has a shiny skin problem, but I didn't realize these two issues were linked.
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Post by midnight tea on Sept 20, 2024 20:34:43 GMT
See, but you have a specific issue - you'd prefer there's more roughness around horn area, which is fine (IMO the roughness in Inquisition stemmed largely from... well, roughness. Which is a 3D texturing term for shininess. As we know the skin in DAI was very shiny/oily. Take that shininess away, and they start look a lot like in Veilguard). You're not a person jumping into conversation to be like "Qunari ugly!!" Can you break this down for me? I'm not an expert on 3D modelling by any stretch of the imagination, but when I look at an qunari inquisitor, the roughness to me stems from differing the coloration around the horns (it's darker) and the details in the forehead textures. Inquisiton definitely has a shiny skin problem, but I didn't realize these two issues were linked. The shininess in general makes any bumps and ridges more prominent (and the Inquisition lighting can be pretty harsh, thus amplifying the effect) - it's not just a matter of 3D; it's a general fact. So when that shininess is toned down (and more complex rendering effects are added, like subsurface scattering + different lighting), so is the prominence. I think you can see it best on screenshots of modded Qunari Inquisitors whose skins have been de-shined - I'm not going to argue that they look *identical*, but one can definitely see just how less prominent the texture on the skin is.
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Post by bierkrug on Sept 20, 2024 20:53:19 GMT
Like, I personally don't have much of an issue with the new Qunari design. I don't think it's bad. They are creatures with giant horns on their heads, and those horns have a very wide base covered in skin - and this is Bioware's interpretation of how that'd look. I'll try to describe what I see. They inflated the forehead to attach the wide horn base. Unfortunately that does kind of look like the Qunari collectivly suffer from hydrocephalus. The very high hairline reinforces that. The DA2 Qunari had a more elegant solution with a lower hairline and adjusted proportions. I tried to edit a screenshot in that direction, already shared that in another thread but here it is again:
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Post by flyingovertrout on Sept 20, 2024 20:57:30 GMT
Hire fans lol
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Post by OhDaniGirl on Sept 20, 2024 20:58:38 GMT
*screams and flails like that one gif* I don't want to suggest anything, but a certain dev has been dropping likes all over my posts about it. MEANINGLESS, CERTAINLY. And again, I see. How long must we play this game? Just announce it, already. What harm could it do?
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Post by Dukemon on Sept 20, 2024 21:06:16 GMT
The Qunari, Vashoth and Tal-Vashoth all look so ugly. In Inquisition you could see very well where the horns start and how they affect the shape of the head. In Veilguard, they just look like they're stuck on and the lack of detail in the cartoon look takes away any chance of them being taken seriously in their appearance. Did the designers even take a closer look at the Qunari from DA2 and DAI? Have you considered that they did, and they've actually decided that they want to go in this direction? In fact, have you considered that the Qunari perhaps were always supposed to like like that, and they were held back before by technical limitations, just like they were held back by DAO's engine, which prevented them from adding horns on Qunari at all?? Man... people are entitled to their opinion about artists choices once their creation is let out into the wild, but as someone who creates herself I can't help being frustrated when creators are so often treated like idiots who don't know their own creation, once they make conscious decisions that some in the audience don't like. It's in the same engine, maybe further developed, but it's the same engine. It was 2014, not 2005, so it's hard to imagine that the Qunari are now so poorly detailed and look like humans who have put two horns on their heads because that's how they were always meant to look. Whereas a game before they showed really nice detail that you can see how the skull of a Qunari is different from a human because the horns have to grow out somewhere in all their volume. Back then, they came up with an explanation as to why Sten looks the way he does. It was a bit at odds with all the other Qunari, Vashoth and Tal-Vashoth seen there, but okay. I am fine with this one.
The Qunari in DA2 and DAI looked different, yes, but after 3 games the exploration phase should finally be over, at least in those aspects. That's the biggest problem with the Dragon Age series, it has no consistency. In Inquisition, Haven didn't look anything like Haven that you've come to know. There was no explanation as to why you didn't recognise anything. Statements like "Yeah, back then it might not have been possible to make it look the way you wanted" is just taking the piss out of the customer, whose opinion is less important than those who like it. I turn it around, I appreciate the work of the people who designed it 2 games ago and appreciate it less when someone comes along and says "Nope, I don't like it, I'd rather do it this way" I'm afraid that a world loses its credibility when essential parts change again and again without any explanation through a story arc. And with some of the comments under various videos about Veilguard, others seem to be upset too. Forums are for people to express their opinions and criticisms on topics and with a why. It's a bit weak to keep telling others to post their impressions, which don't match their own, somewhere else.
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Post by colfoley on Sept 20, 2024 21:28:44 GMT
Have you considered that they did, and they've actually decided that they want to go in this direction? In fact, have you considered that the Qunari perhaps were always supposed to like like that, and they were held back before by technical limitations, just like they were held back by DAO's engine, which prevented them from adding horns on Qunari at all?? Man... people are entitled to their opinion about artists choices once their creation is let out into the wild, but as someone who creates herself I can't help being frustrated when creators are so often treated like idiots who don't know their own creation, once they make conscious decisions that some in the audience don't like. It's in the same engine, maybe further developed, but it's the same engine. It was 2014, not 2005, so it's hard to imagine that the Qunari are now so poorly detailed and look like humans who have put two horns on their heads because that's how they were always meant to look. Whereas a game before they showed really nice detail that you can see how the skull of a Qunari is different from a human because the horns have to grow out somewhere in all their volume. Back then, they came up with an explanation as to why Sten looks the way he does. It was a bit at odds with all the other Qunari, Vashoth and Tal-Vashoth seen there, but okay. I am fine with this one.
The Qunari in DA2 and DAI looked different, yes, but after 3 games the exploration phase should finally be over, at least in those aspects. That's the biggest problem with the Dragon Age series, it has no consistency. In Inquisition, Haven didn't look anything like Haven that you've come to know. There was no explanation as to why you didn't recognise anything. Statements like "Yeah, back then it might not have been possible to make it look the way you wanted" is just taking the piss out of the customer, whose opinion is less important than those who like it. I turn it around, I appreciate the work of the people who designed it 2 games ago and appreciate it less when someone comes along and says "Nope, I don't like it, I'd rather do it this way" I'm afraid that a world loses its credibility when essential parts change again and again without any explanation through a story arc. And with some of the comments under various videos about Veilguard, others seem to be upset too. Forums are for people to express their opinions and criticisms on topics and with a why. It's a bit weak to keep telling others to post their impressions, which don't match their own, somewhere else.
Qunari have always looked like humans who put two horns on. Iron bull even looked like FPJ that put two horns on.
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Post by midnight tea on Sept 20, 2024 22:44:50 GMT
It wasn't the first seven hours. They had the CC and custom made character they could use in the first area. Then a default rook for a companion quest. A custom rook for a main quest. ah so not the seven hours of the game but the whole event was 7 hours. Got it. Siege of Weishaupt seems really weird for the first act though. Not really? At least - not according to what the devs have implied, with spoilers and so on: that there's so much going on, and there are so many reveals and such, that revealing things from Act 1 doesn't bother them that much. I think it should tell us about how much action and drama-packed the Veilguard appears to be, if a siege of the main Warden stronghold is "just" an end of Act 1.
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Post by merane on Sept 20, 2024 22:50:34 GMT
I managed to find a montage of the armors and outfits by factions / class !
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Post by colfoley on Sept 20, 2024 22:56:10 GMT
Shadow Dragon drip looks good....but then I saw the Crows.
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Post by OhDaniGirl on Sept 20, 2024 23:03:17 GMT
Interesting. The female elf inky I've seen wears shadow dragon pj's. Hmm.. I wonder if that changes based on different choices.
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Post by merane on Sept 20, 2024 23:04:14 GMT
Shadow Dragon drip looks good....but then I saw the Crows. The Crows have the nicest set of armor and outfit but I also love the mage armor of the Lord of Fortunes - very unique - and Shadow Dragon. On the other hand, I'm less of a fan of the Mourn Watch armors / outfits sets and the Lord of Fortunes warrior armor is a little too much for me. Too much going on on this armor .
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Post by The Elder King on Sept 20, 2024 23:06:08 GMT
In terms of class armors, the Warrior's are the ones I prefer the most, followed by Mage's and Rogue's. The Crows and VJ look great for Warrior, but GW and LoF's are my favorite.
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Post by shaqfu on Sept 20, 2024 23:06:51 GMT
Some of them look pretty good, though I'd remove about 90% of the pouches lol. Also that mourn watch mage looks like they about to go gardening!
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Post by jennica on Sept 20, 2024 23:08:04 GMT
I wasn't a fan of Lords of Fortune warrior armor at first, but now i dig it, even if it looks gaudy. And casual outfit is one of my favorite. That Mourn Watch mage armor tho
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Post by azarhal on Sept 20, 2024 23:10:27 GMT
I wasn't a fan of Lords of Fortune warrior armor at first, but now i dig it, even if it looks gaudy. And casual outfit is one of my favorite. That Mourn Watch mage armor tho Nevarra will never win fashion contest!
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Post by jennica on Sept 20, 2024 23:16:40 GMT
I wasn't a fan of Lords of Fortune warrior armor at first, but now i dig it, even if it looks gaudy. And casual outfit is one of my favorite. That Mourn Watch mage armor tho Nevarra will never win fashion contest! If it wasn't for shoulder pads on rogue armor, i'd say it look good. Honestly, DAVe's armor make me think of Satr Wars the Old Republic. There was a lot of (otherwise) good looking armor that looked ugly because of one detail. Usually, shoulder pads.
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Post by biggydx on Sept 20, 2024 23:22:26 GMT
I wasn't a fan of Lords of Fortune warrior armor at first, but now i dig it, even if it looks gaudy. And casual outfit is one of my favorite. That Mourn Watch mage armor tho One of the variants kind of looks like a coroner's apron.
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Post by midnight tea on Sept 20, 2024 23:30:59 GMT
Have you considered that they did, and they've actually decided that they want to go in this direction? In fact, have you considered that the Qunari perhaps were always supposed to like like that, and they were held back before by technical limitations, just like they were held back by DAO's engine, which prevented them from adding horns on Qunari at all?? Man... people are entitled to their opinion about artists choices once their creation is let out into the wild, but as someone who creates herself I can't help being frustrated when creators are so often treated like idiots who don't know their own creation, once they make conscious decisions that some in the audience don't like. It's in the same engine, maybe further developed, but it's the same engine. I don't think you understand just how much this "same engine" is different in 2024 compared to 2014. Engines are constantly developed (in fact it was the reason why whole of EA switched to Frostbite - experience from each developed game in each of the studio using Frostbite meant evolving and refining the engine for all of them. In fact Bioware is credited for pioneering many things for Frostbite with DAI, including basics like cinematic tools), and so is technology surrounding games, game development and computer use. All in all, Frostbite DEFINITELY isn't in the same place it was back when DAI was in development. In fact, I've heard so many of the reviewers mention that Veilguard appears to be the game where Bioware finally got Frostbite to where they want. The rest spoilered for lenght: Having smoother or less visible ridges doesn't equal "poorly detailed". "A game before" the Qunarti Inquisitors did, in fact, look quite human.
And I have to admit that I'm a bit amused about "horns having to grow somewhere in all their volume" because.... well, that's what gives Qunari their prominent forehead! It's all the horn! It's just covered with skin, hence there's a lot of forehead. Most people I see usually just have an issue with the skin-to-horn transition and some would prefer more ridging or rougher skin/less skin there. And in DA2 - a game before - those were Antaam Qunari, hailing from the culture that has a breeding program that picks kossith with specific characteristics to certain roles. The fact that they may look somewhat different and it isn't just a matter of style change: is actually lore-friendly.
In fact, we already saw some Antaam Qunari that we fight in Veilguard, and while we didn't see their faces (they had covers/helmets) they are definitely a lot buffer than Qunari we can play, which are clearly Vashoth that were never on Seheron.
So... why would they look like warriors bred and trained since birth for a specific role??
There. Consistency. One just has to pay attention to things beyond surface level. I'm sorry, but most customers aren't idiots, and if there's any medium where audience is understanding of such change, it's gaming - specifically because the technology and gaming evolves so fast, that "future game of the series only vaguely resembles past game" is a widely-accepted thing. It's in fact so widely accepted, I'm surprised it's brought here as an argument.
Like, when I played ESO, most people who played Morrowind didn't blow their gasket that Morrowind in the expansion didn't look specifically like the game from 2002. If anything, most were happy to see the vision of Morrowind better realized than what technology allowed a decade earlier.
Also, there IS a decent reason why it's easy to accept style changes across chapters in DA - each title is somewhat subjectively colored by its main character. ...So it doesn't matter to you, that many of the same designers are the ones who decided to make those changes, or approved them?
Bioware has changed a lot over years, but there are still people who worked on DA for over a decade. Those are not just some hostile strangers who encroach on Bioware and decided to change things with no regard of the past. In fact, the overt suggestion made by you that this is precisely what happened, well... I think it speaks more of you than it does of Bioware. And quite a few aren't - and it also consists of people praising or being fine with changes. That's the thing about a healthy fandom - it's usually not a monolith. You do understand that I'm a member of a forum as well, and just like you have a right to express your opinion, I also have a right to respond to you, right? Freedom of expression goes both ways, so why do you have a problem with me responding to you specifically in a place built for discussion?
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Ice-Quinn
N3
"Begone, spirit! I will not play your games."
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Ice-Quinn
"Begone, spirit! I will not play your games."
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icequinn
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by Ice-Quinn on Sept 20, 2024 23:32:20 GMT
I managed to find a montage of the armors and outfits by factions / class !
[/url]"] [/div][/quote] Oh, nice! The Crows are the best, black and purple, leather and feathers + nice fit, those Crow tailors don’t mess around. The Shadow Dragons… I’m not crazy about the teal and red color scheme, like WTH… (though colors are customizable, so no worries there) but why does it have to be so bulky and ill-fitting? Ugh. lol We spent two games seeing Tevinter styled-mage robes and stuff, and I’m seeing none of that here. But I guess it’s been a long time and Tevinter’s fashion moves fast! ^^ I was hoping for something a bit more feminine, sorceress vibes… I haven’t really seen an armor that I love, honestly. Yet, anyway.
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