Loghain Mac Tir

Jun 26, 2020 1:20:44 GMT Captain Obvious said:

Honestly, I'll probably have to rethink my stance on Loghain myself, though I can't say I like the alternative (Alistair). And I like the idea of a redeemed villain. Call me a sentimental person.

As I've said, it is possible to take differing views on Loghain as a PC, whilst having a set view of him as a player. However, none of what happened in Stolen Throne is really revealed in the game, so in some ways it is not entirely fair to judge him on his showing there. Besides which there may be many things that people do in the middle of a war of rebellion that they might regret in hindsight. Since you never get to quiz him on Katriel, there is no way of knowing if this might be the case.   I'd also mention that just because someone appears to have changed sides, there is such a thing as double agents and in any case they might have just had a falling out with one particular person rather than the regime as a whole, so it isn't entirely unreasonable in a time of war not to take any chances on the matter, particularly if they do seem to have a romantic hold over your king.  (I've not read the book myself so I am only going on what has been said here).

It could also be that he does have a prejudice against elves. The Stolen Throne also has some Night Elves, who are city elf guerrilla fighters that help Maric and Loghain; in fact I believe they would have died but for their help. Given this is the case, the treatment of the alienage elves is even more shameful considering what Loghain owes to the assistance of elves. The callous way he speaks about the elves at the Landsmeet if you challenge him on selling them into slavery is why my elven PCs would find it very hard to consider sparing him. Also, it didn't escape their notice that Anora claimed to have been running the country for the last five years since Cailan became king and thus if conditions are bad in the alienage, that is down to her as she could have done something about it.

However, my Cousland noble could view it in a different way. After getting the evidence about Cailan selling out to Orlais and how Eamon had been encouraging him ditching Anora, he took at pretty dim view of both of them. He wondered how much Eamon might have known about the correspondence with Celene. As it was plainly evident that Alistair would not be running the country but Eamon would on his behalf, there was the distinct possibility that the union with Celene might be attempted again. Thus my Cousland not only had sympathy with Loghain's viewpoint on Orlais but felt that he, Cousland, would make a better ruler with Anora than if he placed Alistair on the throne. So he spared Loghain. I seem to recall he didn't use the selling elves into slavery argument at the Landsmeet, thinking that was likely down to Howe, so he never discovered Loghain's view on it.

My Cousland was also totally straight with Loghain over the dark ritual.   After Riorden had told us about what would need to be done and why, Loghain had said that he was willing to make the killing blow if Riorden didn't make it.   Then my guy returned to his room to find Morrigan there with her offer.   He would have rejected it out of hand but he knew that his life wasn't the one depending on it, so he went to Loghain to give him the option of saving himself.    To his (and my) surprise Loghain was adamant we should turn her down and actually pleaded with him not to make him sleep with Morrigan, so we rejected her offer.     That single fact was almost enough to redeem him in my eyes without him sacrificing himself.     It was clear he did genuinely care about Ferelden more than his own welfare, so I had no problem with him being redeemed in everyone's eyes by making that final sacrifice for his country.  

Loghain is a flawed character but then so are many of those in positions of power in Thedas. That doesn't take away from the fact that he did play a major part in the liberation of Ferelden and was genuinely concerned with keeping it that way.