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Post by Hrulj on Nov 16, 2024 15:06:37 GMT
Is he completely made up figure, Solas playing around to manipulate humans and contain the blights? Something else? What is the current lore position of him
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Post by kaliya on Nov 16, 2024 15:18:09 GMT
I don't think it was really addressed in the game, any religious stuff really. But I think Maker will still be more about personal faith, he just is not in the Golden city because there is no Golden city. Maybe they will address it more in the next game how Andastrians and dalish elves deal with what was revealed.
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Post by Scathane on Nov 16, 2024 15:27:30 GMT
Is he completely made up figure... Yes, I think that about sums it up...
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Post by melbella on Nov 16, 2024 15:35:26 GMT
Is he completely made up figure... Yes, I think that about sums it up... Not necessarily, because the original spirits-turned-elves had to come from somewhere. Maybe they spontaneously gained consciousness or maybe they were created. That question wasn't addressed.
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Post by Scathane on Nov 16, 2024 16:20:27 GMT
Yes, I think that about sums it up... Not necessarily, because the original spirits-turned-elves had to come from somewhere. Maybe they spontaneously gained consciousness or maybe they were created. That question wasn't addressed. The fact remains that every single religion in Thedas got it wrong by more than a few light years off. The notion that the original spirits had to come from somewhere has nice parallels with RL religious conundrums: if they had to come from somewhere, doesn't this then apply to the Maker (God)? Where does the Maker come from? Or, if you'd rather have the scientific version, where do the laws of physics (that make {the creation} of the universe possible) come from?
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Post by Heimdall on Nov 16, 2024 17:13:05 GMT
Frankly, I hope they never answer that question. They’ve already gone a bit far for my taste in eliminating ambiguity from the mythology of the setting.
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Post by Ieldra on Nov 16, 2024 18:02:55 GMT
This is not something that will be answered, if they have any sense at Bioware for these things (which these days is a big if I admit). The Maker is a figure akin to the gods of RL religions for a reason. Demythologizing such figures will adversely affect the identity of the setting.
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Post by azarhal on Nov 16, 2024 18:33:56 GMT
Is he completely made up figure, Solas playing around to manipulate humans and contain the blights? Something else? What is the current lore position of him People didn't know how/when it happened so "god did it" is how they explained it. That it ended up being Solas doesn't mean Solas pretended to be the Maker at any time. And the Maker will never be explained, it's an absentes god that exist to explain the creation of the world (fade, physical world, titans, spirits, mortals, etc) and then later used to keep people from creating would-be-god-mages (again).
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Post by Andraste_Reborn on Nov 16, 2024 23:29:04 GMT
Not necessarily, because the original spirits-turned-elves had to come from somewhere. Maybe they spontaneously gained consciousness or maybe they were created. That question wasn't addressed. The fact remains that every single religion in Thedas got it wrong by more than a few light years off. Hey, the Avvar are 100% correct! Their gods not only definitely exist, they are what the Avvar think they are. Which is more than we can say for any other cultural group in Thedas.
(Well, the Chasind might also be correct, depending on how close their beliefs are to those of the Avvar. We haven't really explored them much.)
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Post by phoray on Nov 17, 2024 0:05:20 GMT
I mean, the dwarves worship themselves so they're nearly accurate even if there is definitely some historical polishing for posterity
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Post by Scathane on Nov 17, 2024 1:56:50 GMT
The fact remains that every single religion in Thedas got it wrong by more than a few light years off. Hey, the Avvar are 100% correct! Their gods not only definitely exist, they are what the Avvar think they are. Which is more than we can say for any other cultural group in Thedas. (Well, the Chasind might also be correct, depending on how close their beliefs are to those of the Avvar. We haven't really explored them much.)
You're right there, I stand corrected. And, as phoray pointed out, the same might be said for the dwarves. I must admit I have always felt the juxtaposition between both Andrastian Chantries and the Elven religion to be the main religious narrative in Thedas. That and the contrast between the position held by the chantries and Corypheus' statement that he found the throne empty. Those religions were all wrong and it poses the interesting question of who it was, then, that spoke to Andraste after she shed her thirteenth tear in Maferath's vial...
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Post by Gwydden on Nov 17, 2024 2:13:35 GMT
I personally think the devs saying they'd never reveal whether the Maker is real while exposing most tenets of Andrastianism as false and completely undermining the elven and dwarven religions is a case of following the letter but not the spirit of their own law.
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Post by melbella on Nov 17, 2024 3:24:53 GMT
it poses the interesting question of who it was, then, that spoke to Andraste after she shed her thirteenth tear in Maferath's vial... According to Morrigan, Andraste was another host for Mythal. She says it rather quickly as kind of an afterthought so it's easy to miss, especially the first time through the game.
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Post by azarhal on Nov 17, 2024 3:56:04 GMT
it poses the interesting question of who it was, then, that spoke to Andraste after she shed her thirteenth tear in Maferath's vial... According to Morrigan, Andraste was another host for Mythal. She says it rather quickly as kind of an afterthought so it's easy to miss, especially the first time through the game. If it's the line I think of, that host ended up living in a swamp, not dying burned at the stake in Minrathous.
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Post by melbella on Nov 17, 2024 3:58:43 GMT
According to Morrigan, Andraste was another host for Mythal. She says it rather quickly as kind of an afterthought so it's easy to miss, especially the first time through the game. If it's the line I think of, that host ended up living in a swamp, not dying burned at the stake in Minrathous.
Living in a swamp sounds like Flemeth. But Andraste could have lived in a swamp as well, before the big revolution.
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Post by azarhal on Nov 17, 2024 4:06:26 GMT
If it's the line I think of, that host ended up living in a swamp, not dying burned at the stake in Minrathous.
Living in a swamp sounds like Flemeth. But Andraste could have lived in a swamp as well, before the big revolution.
Except that it was "living in a swamp ever after" if I remember right.
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Post by VARMAELEN on Nov 19, 2024 5:37:36 GMT
They should not answer this question.
Does maker exist? does it matter?
What is clear is that the first blight isn't about the Maker at all, it's a revisionist chant, that's a fact now.
But the story about Andraste and the Maker has not been touched by the game/stories at all.
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Post by Envisionary on Nov 21, 2024 4:49:39 GMT
If any of Elgar'nan's creation myth is real and Solas does refer to him as "Sun-tamer".
Elgar'nan, firstborn of the sun, cast down some sort of sun entity into an abyss.
The Chantry uses a lot of sun imagery and says the Maker created the spirits first.
But it's all a huge guess if that's the Maker's origins or if this sun entity even existed.
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Post by necrowaif on Nov 21, 2024 5:49:33 GMT
Presumably the Maker is a giant elf, given how elves are now responsible for everything else in this setting.
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Post by Andraste_Reborn on Nov 21, 2024 7:23:46 GMT
Presumably the Maker is a giant elf, given how elves are now responsible for everything else in this setting. :| It seems more probable that he's a giant spirit (which has been theorized before, especially after we learned about the Avvar gods) since that's what the elves were to start with. If he exists, of course.
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Post by serillen on Nov 21, 2024 8:36:14 GMT
I do remember reading a codex that worship of the maker predates humans entering Thedas though it was a fairly minor religion when they arrived. One of the questions then becomes how much the modern religion matches what it was before entering Thedas, I'm sure there probably was a lot of cross contamination going on especially after Andraste.
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Post by mattjamho on Nov 21, 2024 10:16:22 GMT
It is interesting that the Chantry and Andrastianism is surprisingly absent from this game. I know Rook can say they believe in the maker, but in terms of the world and its characters, it’s definitely taken a back seat from the previous games. I wonder if that was a conscious choice by the devs? Since Inquisition heavily featured the Chantry and its religion.
I hope they never answer the Maker question outright, but I do hope they acknowledge the revelations about the golden city and spirits, and how that affects the doctrine. You could compare it to real world religions, in how they now discuss their creation stories with the knowledge of evolution and the Big Bang.
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Post by azarhal on Nov 21, 2024 12:34:01 GMT
It is interesting that the Chantry and Andrastianism is surprisingly absent from this game. I know Rook can say they believe in the maker, but in terms of the world and its characters, it’s definitely taken a back seat from the previous games. I wonder if that was a conscious choice by the devs? Since Inquisition heavily featured the Chantry and its religion. There might be some of that, but I think it's more related to the place we visit. Treviso: the Chantry staff looks to have left when the Antaam took over. We do get to visit the empty Chantry. Rivain: never been much Andrastian, the Seers has always been their main spiritual guides. We also do not visit any cities, but it has the only "Chantry" related side quest in-game. Minrathous: the interior of the Chantry in Dock Town looks like this the 1st time you get there in-game. And since DAO we meet Tevene who still worship the Old Gods over the Maker, so their Andrastianism might have always been more perfunctory then the zealotery of the South. Nevarra: Cassandra complains about them just paying lip service to the Maker in DAI. But we only get to visit the Grand Necropolis too and the Mourn Watchers are way more academic focused. Anderfels: no Chantry in Lavendel, the mementos are all mostly related to Andrastianism thought.
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Post by kotoreffect3 on Nov 21, 2024 14:07:17 GMT
Beginning to think Andrastrianism is just something Solas and Mythal made up to keep meddlers out of his prison after Corypheus and his merry little band raided some blight out of the place.
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Post by theascendent on Nov 21, 2024 14:57:31 GMT
Did Humans exist in a Pre Veil world? I think I remember the Evanuris saying they took physical form so they could have permanence like Humans alongside the immortality of spirits, hence the bodies made of Lyrium.
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