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Post by opuspace on Aug 5, 2016 17:41:19 GMT
I don't blame you. ME3 was shameless in trying to get us to sympathize with her and the entire trilogy went cattywampus on her characterization. When she tried to pick a fight with Javik even though I specifically kept him away from Thessia, I had no pity for her. I mean.....she freaks out when Thessia falls to the Reapers. Well, good Liara. It's about time you figured out how I was feeling this whole time, idiot. *pats* I have to admit, it really didn't punch me hard at what was happening until I saw turian husks. I mean, we had been fighting human husks for the entire time so the moment a Marauder dropped in, I started swearing, "You mothernugging jackoffs! Frak your freaking psychological warfare!" (Trying not to swear for real, so it's a little goofy)
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Post by Arcian on Aug 5, 2016 22:30:48 GMT
I cheered when Javik shut down Liara's inquiries. He may as well just said, "Shut your trap hole, you sound stupid when you talk." I never got the sense he did that just to troll her. It always came off as irritability that she wouldn't leave him alone. Who would want to dredge up painful memories for the sake of someone's curiosity? He's also annoyed by the fact that she's asking questions that are irrelevant in their war against the Reapers. After all, what good is an encyclopedia about the protheans if everyone able to read it dies? He's basically chastising her for not having her priorities straight.
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Post by opuspace on Aug 6, 2016 3:17:59 GMT
I never got the sense he did that just to troll her. It always came off as irritability that she wouldn't leave him alone. Who would want to dredge up painful memories for the sake of someone's curiosity? He's also annoyed by the fact that she's asking questions that are irrelevant in their war against the Reapers. After all, what good is an encyclopedia about the protheans if everyone able to read it dies? He's basically chastising her for not having her priorities straight. I could never hate Javik for being the way he is. If Shep had gone into stasis and woken up alone to find pyjaks not only ruling the galaxy but also using Liara's time capsule as a coffee machine, I'd be like him too. All that effort to prepare others for the hell awaiting them and they're only just now beginning to get their act together. "In my cycle, one of your ancestors stole a data disc of ours. I had to cavity search entire villages of your people until I found the culprit. I traded him a banana for it. Or shot him. Memory is a little fuzzy."
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Arcian
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Post by Arcian on Aug 6, 2016 19:40:45 GMT
I'm honestly puzzled that some people were surprised to find he's an asshole. Is a nice, pleasant demeanor really a realistic expectation from someone who has lived through a literal lifetime of galaxy-wide war against giant, calamari-shaped mind-controlling starships who create footsoldiers from the corpses of fallen enemies and who harvest entire populations for an unknown but most assuredly sinister purpose? Someone who went into cryostasis moments after losing a third of what remained of his people, only to be informed he would lose even more due to power triage as a result of damage inflicted to the automatic awakening system, rendering it nonfunctional. Imagine all this, and sleeping 50,000 years - a timespan Javik experienced as instantaneous - to wake up, realize you're literally the last individual of your species remaining, and finding yourself at the mercy of species who had barely begun to discover fire by the time you went into stasis.
All things considered, he could have come out of that stasis pod much, much worse.
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Post by Rifneno on Aug 7, 2016 12:30:23 GMT
I was disappointed there wasn't an opportunity to troll him right back by pointing out all the similarities between the prothean empire and the Reapers. They're both ruthlessly pragmatic superpowers that brutally conquer and enslave technologically inferior races. All that happened is that the bigger fish of the Protheans finally met the biggest fish of the Reapers. Karma's a bitch, ain't it? Then again I also desperately wanted to troll Ashley when she asks questions about the afterlife. Pick an afterlife from ancient mythology and just go with it. See how long it takes her to realize the bearded guy isn't God, it's Zeus or Odin or whatever.
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Post by Arcian on Aug 7, 2016 22:13:21 GMT
I was disappointed there wasn't an opportunity to troll him right back by pointing out all the similarities between the prothean empire and the Reapers. They're both ruthlessly pragmatic superpowers that brutally conquer and enslave technologically inferior races. All that happened is that the bigger fish of the Protheans finally met the biggest fish of the Reapers. Karma's a bitch, ain't it? They never kept other species as outright slaves, though. Any species assimilated into their empire, whether willingly or by force, were considered protheans with rights and opportunities no different from any other species, including the original protheans.
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Post by Rifneno on Aug 7, 2016 23:18:37 GMT
I was disappointed there wasn't an opportunity to troll him right back by pointing out all the similarities between the prothean empire and the Reapers. They're both ruthlessly pragmatic superpowers that brutally conquer and enslave technologically inferior races. All that happened is that the bigger fish of the Protheans finally met the biggest fish of the Reapers. Karma's a bitch, ain't it? They never kept other species as outright slaves, though. Any species assimilated into their empire, whether willingly or by force, were considered protheans with rights and opportunities no different from any other species, including the original protheans. "Are you saying you enslaved the other races?!" "Any could oppose us if they wished." Sure doesn't sound like a denial to me. Between this and references to "the subservient races"... Yeah, they definitely enslaved the other races.
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Post by The Redhead Commander on Aug 7, 2016 23:26:05 GMT
They were all considered apart of the Prothean Empire but the Prothean species themselves would've definitely been of a higher status over other species.
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Post by opuspace on Aug 8, 2016 3:16:43 GMT
They never kept other species as outright slaves, though. Any species assimilated into their empire, whether willingly or by force, were considered protheans with rights and opportunities no different from any other species, including the original protheans. "Are you saying you enslaved the other races?!" "Any could oppose us if they wished." Sure doesn't sound like a denial to me. Between this and references to "the subservient races"... Yeah, they definitely enslaved the other races. Does this mean that the Protheans were like the Qunari?
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Post by Arcian on Aug 8, 2016 10:16:33 GMT
"Are you saying you enslaved the other races?!" "Any could oppose us if they wished." Sure doesn't sound like a denial to me. Between this and references to "the subservient races"... Yeah, they definitely enslaved the other races. Does this mean that the Protheans were like the Qunari? Javik WAS called Space Sten for a while... They were all considered apart of the Prothean Empire but the Prothean species themselves would've definitely been of a higher status over other species. A bit like the Romans, then. Nothing really suggests they conquered other species to keep them as private property, like the batarians do. In fact, given the regulatory and authoritarian nature of the protheans, they were probably not allowed to keep private property at all.
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Post by opuspace on Aug 8, 2016 12:31:14 GMT
The Protheans did conquer out of some belief that it's inherently within a species' nature to utilize what they were made for, they are ruthlessly pragmatic, based on a collective mentality where the needs of individuals are subsumed for the sake of the other. Oh good god, the Protheans ARE Qunari! No wonder Javik is considered to be space Sten! Eh, I still like them both. I wouldn't dare try to appeal to sentimentality though if the situation did not favor the protagonist. Characters like Javik and Sten are only cuddly because they're outnumbered and under a PC's authority.
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Post by Obliviousmiss on Aug 8, 2016 12:43:08 GMT
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Post by Rifneno on Aug 8, 2016 15:51:07 GMT
Sten's still not cuddly. He's a lunatic who butchered a family, including children, because he's a panicky idiot. I leave him in his cage to waste away as he deserves. It's a shame they decided to retcon it so he survives.
The Protheans were a brutal but legitimate culture. The Qunari are nothing but a disease to be cured. They are the antithesis of free will. The Protheans may have been bullying dicks but at least (as far as we know) they never brainwashed anyone, took away their right to even have relationships, and work their slaves literally to death. If I had the chance, I'd glass Par Vollen from orbit without hesitation and sleep like a baby that night.
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Post by themikefest on Aug 8, 2016 16:18:41 GMT
Javik is cool. Anyone who talks smack to Liara is alright in my book I like his dialogue on Thessia
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Post by DoomsdayDevice on Aug 8, 2016 16:57:58 GMT
"Find your resolve. This war can end if you do."
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Post by Arcian on Aug 8, 2016 20:07:31 GMT
Sten's still not cuddly. He's a lunatic who butchered a family, including children, because he's a panicky idiot. I leave him in his cage to waste away as he deserves. It's a shame they decided to retcon it so he survives. The Protheans were a brutal but legitimate culture. The Qunari are nothing but a disease to be cured. They are the antithesis of free will. The Protheans may have been bullying dicks but at least (as far as we know) they never brainwashed anyone, took away their right to even have relationships, and work their slaves literally to death. If I had the chance, I'd glass Par Vollen from orbit without hesitation and sleep like a baby that night. Pretty much, the Space Sten comparison was mostly based on the fact that Javik was an unconsiderate dick to the player, like Sten, not that the prothean and qunari culture were particularly similar.
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Post by opuspace on Aug 9, 2016 18:02:29 GMT
If Javik and his people did survive, it'd probably have gotten a lot bloodier. And it might have been disastrous had the Protheans succeeded in subjugating Shepard's cycle.
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Post by Rifneno on Aug 10, 2016 23:39:11 GMT
Thanks Arcian for the shiny new thread...and for the old ( which I unfortunately didn't read because I was too busy complaining at that time)I am not sure I like his attitude, but I understand it... View Attachment(Aside: I would rather Javik's part in this was not relegated to a DLC. I would have preferred in this case they had stuck with the original script.)Here's to Javik (Choice? RED) Cheers! Speaking of... Observation. I'm 95% sure that quote is foreshadowing about the ending. Geth are the only species that number in the trillions, that question about souls is a significant part of their story arc, and you have to sacrifice them to kill the Reapers. Javik's foreshadowing what would obviously be his choice.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2016 0:14:30 GMT
Nah.. I'm just kidding. This is a great thread.
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Post by opuspace on Aug 11, 2016 2:17:13 GMT
"This is team Prothean and I've got more kills than all of you primitives!"
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Post by straykat on Aug 15, 2016 3:17:21 GMT
Javik is my favorite squadmate in ME3. Really, the only one I want around. Him and Shep are equally loners it seems. Misery loves company.
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Post by Arcian on Aug 15, 2016 13:07:27 GMT
Javik is my favorite squadmate in ME3. Really, the only one I want around. Him and Shep are equally loners it seems. Misery loves company. Javik was basically the Shepard of his cycle, with the exception that for him, everything went wrong.
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Post by SaikyoMcRyu on Aug 25, 2016 12:27:09 GMT
There is a fair amount of controversy over the inclusion of Javik, from all the day one DLC issues to the fact that the freaky Prothean designs for ME1 were retconned into the Collector shape while designing Javik and the other Protheans.
But he is a great character and probably has more development than anyone else in the game. Of course he is a world-class epic troll, but I always found him reassuring, because every time you encounter a new Reaper abomination Javik is like, nah whatever I've seen all this shit before and a thousand times worse.
Plus his overwhelming desire to brutally murder all the Reapers in the most painful way possible, despite the fact that he is a tiny little grumpy Prothean speck of dust compared to them. With the Leviathan DLC and the ending attempting to throw a little moral ambiguity the Reapers' way, it's nice to have a character to reassure us that the Reapers are nightmare creatures, the worst of all beings, purposed only to slaughter all life by an insane AI.... and THEY. MUST. DDIIIIIEEEE.
No one is more sure of his mission and he never wavers from his goal of dead reapers despite the laughably overwhelming odds. He's awesome.
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Post by SaikyoMcRyu on Aug 25, 2016 12:34:38 GMT
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Post by dalinne on Aug 25, 2016 12:46:46 GMT
I freaking love Javik
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