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Post by Element Zero on Nov 13, 2016 14:17:23 GMT
Thanks for the references. I've always been a little iffy on these type of charts, perhaps unjustly at times, because I've seen so many bad ones. If the chain of references used by the artist is reliable, then who knows? It does have the look of something that is appropriately huge, yet way too big to be believed. The Citadel was built by THE REAPERS, after all, and was regarded as the marvel of the galaxy by untold cultures for millions of years. This thing is nearly as large. I know it isn't all about the size, but... it seems weird. A bit "weird", yeah. Like Crucible was the biggest co-project in history. Except that one mini-Citadel, which nobody cared about. Arks have Pathfinder ships and that's probably it, well maybe three fighters just for record. Arks could have some decent weapon on-board, but after weaponless Nomad I'm not even sure aboit it. Yeah, I'm trying to be restrained. It seems I possibly large. I'd considered the possibility that it's mostly engines and simpler tech, but that seems less likely for the Nexus than for the Arks. Even if it's so, the size! This will be one of those things that I just accept and move forward, perhaps.
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Post by Adhin on Nov 13, 2016 14:46:29 GMT
The citadel is 40 kilometers long and half as wide and it has 13 million people on it? Well, sort of. Keep in mind that 'half as side' is misleading. It's a circle, with 5 large wing-arms that're flat surfaces containing a lot of buildings. Which is about like 80-90% of that 'half as wide'. So say 40 long and 18 wide - 5 times. It's that whole surface area vs space it takes up and all that nonsense. Which I realize doesn't mean to much, that's still an absurd amount of people in a ridiculously small amount of space lol. New York is what, 300-ish square miles with little over 8 million people? KM being a lot smaller then a mile... yeeeaaahh. Looked up Bangkok and Hong Kong (cause there the only 2 things coming to mind that might have a large population) and both are larger then New York with a smaller population lol. Fuck it, space magic I guess.
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Post by PapaCharlie9 on Nov 13, 2016 18:15:18 GMT
The citadel is 40 kilometers long and half as wide and it has 13 million people on it? Well, sort of. Keep in mind that 'half as side' is misleading. It's a circle, with 5 large wing-arms that're flat surfaces containing a lot of buildings. Which is about like 80-90% of that 'half as wide'. So say 40 long and 18 wide - 5 times. It's that whole surface area vs space it takes up and all that nonsense. Which I realize doesn't mean to much, that's still an absurd amount of people in a ridiculously small amount of space lol. New York is what, 300-ish square miles with little over 8 million people? KM being a lot smaller then a mile... yeeeaaahh. Looked up Bangkok and Hong Kong (cause there the only 2 things coming to mind that might have a large population) and both are larger then New York with a smaller population lol. Fuck it, space magic I guess. Oddly enough, Old World cities have much higher population densities than New World, including New York. I just saw a doc on this. Paris is 2.3 million souls on 105 km2 for a density of 21.5k per km2. Cairo is 6.8 million souls on 374 km2 for a density of 18k per km2. India takes the cake for pop density, though. It's top two for land area and population. Mumbai is 12.5 million on 603 km2 for a density of 20.7k per km2. 40 km x 18 km x 5 = 3600 km2, 13 million souls, yielding a density of 3.6k per km2. A much lower density than a lot of Old World cities. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cities_by_population_density
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Post by Adhin on Nov 13, 2016 18:28:25 GMT
Oddly enough, Old World cities have much higher population densities than New World, including New York. I just saw a doc on this. Paris is 2.3 million souls on 105 km2 for a density of 21.5k per km2. Cairo is 6.8 million souls on 374 km2 for a density of 18k per km2. India takes the cake for pop density, though. It's top two for land area and population. Mumbai is 12.5 million on 603 km2 for a density of 20.7k per km2. 40 km x 18 km x 5 = 3600 km2, 13 million souls, yielding a density of 3.6k per km2. A much lower density than a lot of Old World cities. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cities_by_population_densityHuh well there ya go lol. Citadel definitely has a good chunk of space then that's for sure. Nexus lacking the whole city building structure and same general size definitely keeps it lower. I'm still pretty confident the Nexus is 50-100k. I'm thinking 50k, but that 100k 'could' of just been for the Nexus instead of the whole. I'll be surprised if it's per ark considering there dreadnought sized. Unless they really did plan on keeping everyone in cold storage even on arrival and just using a skeleton crew to find a home. That just seems like a weird way to do it though, considering that could be an indeterminable amount of time and those pods have had to keep going for 600 years. No reason to chance it going longer.
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bshep
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Post by bshep on Nov 13, 2016 18:38:24 GMT
Oddly enough, Old World cities have much higher population densities than New World, including New York. I just saw a doc on this. Paris is 2.3 million souls on 105 km2 for a density of 21.5k per km2. Cairo is 6.8 million souls on 374 km2 for a density of 18k per km2. India takes the cake for pop density, though. It's top two for land area and population. Mumbai is 12.5 million on 603 km2 for a density of 20.7k per km2. 40 km x 18 km x 5 = 3600 km2, 13 million souls, yielding a density of 3.6k per km2. A much lower density than a lot of Old World cities. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cities_by_population_densityHuh well there ya go lol. Citadel definitely has a good chunk of space then that's for sure. Nexus lacking the whole city building structure and same general size definitely keeps it lower. I'm still pretty confident the Nexus is 50-100k. I'm thinking 50k, but that 100k 'could' of just been for the Nexus instead of the whole. I'll be surprised if it's per ark considering there dreadnought sized. Unless they really did plan on keeping everyone in cold storage even on arrival and just using a skeleton crew to find a home. That just seems like a weird way to do it though, considering that could be an indeterminable amount of time and those pods have had to keep going for 600 years. No reason to chance it going longer. It's a 600 years journey. It would make no sense to keep a crew awake for this long, this is not a blink of eye even for long lived species like Asari and Krogan. Best to keep everything automatized while the crew and the colonists sleep inside cryo pods until they reach destination. ps: Remember that the Destiny Ascension had a crew of 10.000, so i don't think it would be too far fetched to think that the Arks can hold a lot more people than that.
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theflyingzamboni
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Post by theflyingzamboni on Nov 13, 2016 18:42:47 GMT
Well, sort of. Keep in mind that 'half as side' is misleading. It's a circle, with 5 large wing-arms that're flat surfaces containing a lot of buildings. Which is about like 80-90% of that 'half as wide'. So say 40 long and 18 wide - 5 times. It's that whole surface area vs space it takes up and all that nonsense. Which I realize doesn't mean to much, that's still an absurd amount of people in a ridiculously small amount of space lol. New York is what, 300-ish square miles with little over 8 million people? KM being a lot smaller then a mile... yeeeaaahh. Looked up Bangkok and Hong Kong (cause there the only 2 things coming to mind that might have a large population) and both are larger then New York with a smaller population lol. Fuck it, space magic I guess. Oddly enough, Old World cities have much higher population densities than New World, including New York. I just saw a doc on this. Paris is 2.3 million souls on 105 km2 for a density of 21.5k per km2. Cairo is 6.8 million souls on 374 km2 for a density of 18k per km2. India takes the cake for pop density, though. It's top two for land area and population. Mumbai is 12.5 million on 603 km2 for a density of 20.7k per km2. 40 km x 18 km x 5 = 3600 km2, 13 million souls, yielding a density of 3.6k per km2. A much lower density than a lot of Old World cities. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cities_by_population_densityI think your numbers are off a little. The Citadel is only 12.8 km wide when open. This would be smaller when closed, as the Presidium ring is only 7.2 km wide. I'm assuming the wards pull in pretty close to the ring when it's closed, judging by ME1 cutscenes. So the livable part of the Citadel wards is roughly a cylinder 43.6 km by let's call it 10 km, halfway between ring diameter and open diameter. Minus the ends of course. 43.6 km * 10 km * pi ~ 1400 km2, 13 million / 1400 km2 ~ 9.3k per km2 So a good bit denser, but still not denser than some real-world cities. Also, this doesn't count living space in the Presidium itself. Number from the codex entries here, btw: masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Codex/Citadel_and_Galactic_Government
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Post by Adhin on Nov 13, 2016 18:59:45 GMT
Huh well there ya go lol. Citadel definitely has a good chunk of space then that's for sure. Nexus lacking the whole city building structure and same general size definitely keeps it lower. I'm still pretty confident the Nexus is 50-100k. I'm thinking 50k, but that 100k 'could' of just been for the Nexus instead of the whole. I'll be surprised if it's per ark considering there dreadnought sized. Unless they really did plan on keeping everyone in cold storage even on arrival and just using a skeleton crew to find a home. That just seems like a weird way to do it though, considering that could be an indeterminable amount of time and those pods have had to keep going for 600 years. No reason to chance it going longer. It's a 600 years journey. It would make no sense to keep a crew awake for this long, this is not a blink of eye even for long lived species like Asari and Krogan. Best to keep everything automatized while the crew and the colonists sleep inside cryo pods until they reach destination. ps: Remember that the Destiny Ascension had a crew of 10.000, so i don't think it would be too far fetched to think that the Arks can hold a lot more people than that. I didn't say keep them awake during the trip. I'm talking about once they arrive. Once they're in Andromeda it would make sense for them all to get woken up. Someone was saying something about just a small crew waking up and the bulk stay in cryo while the small crew finds a home which just... didn't sit well with me. Hense me saying ti makes more sense, least to me, that everyone would be woken up. Also I disagree about the 10k mark. Destiny Ascension looks like it's larger then the Arks. Arks seem to be about dreadnought size. Now maybe there a bit bigger, more dense and have room for 10k people sure but once they wake up they need a place to go with in that ship. That's 10k people who need a place to 'be', places to eat, get checked up by doctors upon being unfrozen/unstasis-ed or whatever. Point is it can't just be a big ass box with a buncha cryopods with everyone fitting in like sardines. There has to be actual room for it being a ship. So if it's a dreadnaught, and you remove the gun running down the middle you could use that extra space for all those cryopods, while the rest is still being a ship - because it still has to function as a space craft once it gets to Andromeda, and that means a crew being awake and doing stuff.
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bshep
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Post by bshep on Nov 13, 2016 19:13:16 GMT
It's a 600 years journey. It would make no sense to keep a crew awake for this long, this is not a blink of eye even for long lived species like Asari and Krogan. Best to keep everything automatized while the crew and the colonists sleep inside cryo pods until they reach destination. ps: Remember that the Destiny Ascension had a crew of 10.000, so i don't think it would be too far fetched to think that the Arks can hold a lot more people than that. I didn't say keep them awake during the trip. I'm talking about once they arrive. Once they're in Andromeda it would make sense for them all to get woken up. Someone was saying something about just a small crew waking up and the bulk stay in cryo while the small crew finds a home which just... didn't sit well with me. Hense me saying ti makes more sense, least to me, that everyone would be woken up. Also I disagree about the 10k mark. Destiny Ascension looks like it's larger then the Arks. Arks seem to be about dreadnought size. Now maybe there a bit bigger, more dense and have room for 10k people sure but once they wake up they need a place to go with in that ship. That's 10k people who need a place to 'be', places to eat, get checked up by doctors upon being unfrozen/unstasis-ed or whatever. Point is it can't just be a big ass box with a buncha cryopods with everyone fitting in like sardines. There has to be actual room for it being a ship. So if it's a dreadnaught, and you remove the gun running down the middle you could use that extra space for all those cryopods, while the rest is still being a ship - because it still has to function as a space craft once it gets to Andromeda, and that means a crew being awake and doing stuff. The crew sure but not the colonists, you don't need everyone waking up to access the situation once they reach their target destination. It was already said (gameinformer i guess) that they are kept in the cryopods while the pathfinder team scout ahead to sites where they can create a colony. Besides it would make a lot more sense to wake up people on turns to not overload the ship and the crew capability to tend to everyone before they are send to the colonization sites. ps:The Destiny Ascension like size is from chart created based in the sizes showed in the Andromeda site videos. So it may not be official but it is fairly accurate.
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Post by Element Zero on Nov 13, 2016 23:47:43 GMT
It's hard to make any truly educated guesses about internal layouts, external sizes and crew numbers until we get solid figures on at least two of those three. As it is, we're trying to guess how many crew fit into which type of configuration in which size vessel. It's fun, but we're chasing our tails.
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Post by Ahriman on Nov 14, 2016 0:02:01 GMT
It's a 600 years journey. It would make no sense to keep a crew awake for this long, this is not a blink of eye even for long lived species like Asari and Krogan. Best to keep everything automatized while the crew and the colonists sleep inside cryo pods until they reach destination. ps: Remember that the Destiny Ascension had a crew of 10.000, so i don't think it would be too far fetched to think that the Arks can hold a lot more people than that. I didn't say keep them awake during the trip. I'm talking about once they arrive. Once they're in Andromeda it would make sense for them all to get woken up. Someone was saying something about just a small crew waking up and the bulk stay in cryo while the small crew finds a home which just... didn't sit well with me. Hense me saying ti makes more sense, least to me, that everyone would be woken up. Sense for what? What would x thousands of people do on Ark? Until there is no job for them the most practical solution is too keep them frozen.
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Post by KirkyX on Nov 14, 2016 0:21:59 GMT
Oddly enough, Old World cities have much higher population densities than New World, including New York. I just saw a doc on this. Paris is 2.3 million souls on 105 km2 for a density of 21.5k per km2. Cairo is 6.8 million souls on 374 km2 for a density of 18k per km2. India takes the cake for pop density, though. It's top two for land area and population. Mumbai is 12.5 million on 603 km2 for a density of 20.7k per km2. 40 km x 18 km x 5 = 3600 km2, 13 million souls, yielding a density of 3.6k per km2. A much lower density than a lot of Old World cities. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cities_by_population_densityHuh well there ya go lol. Citadel definitely has a good chunk of space then that's for sure. Nexus lacking the whole city building structure and same general size definitely keeps it lower. I'm still pretty confident the Nexus is 50-100k. I'm thinking 50k, but that 100k 'could' of just been for the Nexus instead of the whole. I'll be surprised if it's per ark considering there dreadnought sized. Unless they really did plan on keeping everyone in cold storage even on arrival and just using a skeleton crew to find a home. That just seems like a weird way to do it though, considering that could be an indeterminable amount of time and those pods have had to keep going for 600 years. No reason to chance it going longer. Going by what we know of the basic set-up so far, I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that's exactly what they planned to do--here's a quote from the Game Informer piece:
We, the Pathfinders and our teams, are that 'skeleton crew', tasked with surveying prospective Golden Worlds to ascertain their habitability. Everyone else - beyond, I would presume, a small staff to run the arks in our absence, since the VIs probably aren't complex enough to keep managing things once we're out of the intergalactic void - remains in stasis until we find somewhere for them to live. I think this is a sensible way to do it for precisely the same reasons as you think it isn't, oddly enough. Since we've no idea how long it'll take to find a home, keeping everyone in stasis is the best way to make sure we don't run out of resources. And if the pods can last 600 years, they can certainly last 600 years and a few months. It also means the arks don't have to be designed with long-term living facilities for a large number of people, which leaves more room for cryopods, equipment and resource storage, a docking bay for the Tempest - since she presumably hitched a ride along with the Hyperion - and so on.
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Post by Element Zero on Nov 14, 2016 0:23:59 GMT
Huh well there ya go lol. Citadel definitely has a good chunk of space then that's for sure. Nexus lacking the whole city building structure and same general size definitely keeps it lower. I'm still pretty confident the Nexus is 50-100k. I'm thinking 50k, but that 100k 'could' of just been for the Nexus instead of the whole. I'll be surprised if it's per ark considering there dreadnought sized. Unless they really did plan on keeping everyone in cold storage even on arrival and just using a skeleton crew to find a home. That just seems like a weird way to do it though, considering that could be an indeterminable amount of time and those pods have had to keep going for 600 years. No reason to chance it going longer. Going by what we know of the basic set-up so far, I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that's exactly what they planned to do--here's a quote from the Game Informer piece:
We, the Pathfinders and our teams, are that 'skeleton crew', tasked with surveying prospective Golden Worlds to ascertain their habitability. Everyone else - beyond, I would presume, a small staff to run the arks in our absence, since the VIs probably aren't complex enough to keep managing things once we're out of the intergalactic void - remains in stasis until we find somewhere for them to live. I think this is a sensible way to do it for precisely the same reasons as you think it isn't, oddly enough. Since we've no idea how long it'll take to find a home, keeping everyone in stasis is the best way to make sure we don't run out of resources. And if the pods can last 600 years, they can certainly last 600 years and a few months. It also means the arks don't have to be designed with long-term living facilities for a large number of people, which leaves more room for cryopods, equipment and resource storage, a docking bay for the Tempest - since she presumably hitched a ride along with the Hyperion - and so on. Agreed. Good post.
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Adhin
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Post by Adhin on Nov 14, 2016 2:51:18 GMT
Yeah I guess so, just think it's a bit odd is all. Guess if you didn't want to be kept in cold storage till some asshole found your home for you, you went on the Nexus where that wasn't a thing.
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bshep
N5
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Post by bshep on Nov 14, 2016 4:09:02 GMT
This is what i mentioned. Those Arks aren't like the quarian ships, they weren't designated to serve as "house" to thousand of people but to travel the void between the galaxies while the crew and the colonists take a 600 years "nap".
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Post by Element Zero on Nov 14, 2016 4:21:27 GMT
This is what i mentioned. Those Arks aren't like the quarian ships, they weren't designated to serve as "house" to thousand of people but to travel the void between the galaxies while the crew and the colonists take a 600 years "nap". Indeed. Any waking souls are mouths to feed. They'd deplete precious resources rather quickly, considering the fact that the Ark is floating in the black with no guarantee of finding fresh supplies. It's far better to wake only the essential personnel until colonizable worlds are found. I wonder if Ark Hyperion will be damaged in a way that forces too many out of cryosleep too early, thus putting tremendous pressure on the search for a habitable world? That isn't exactly what was said, but it certainly wouldn't clash with what we know, either. I'm very ready to play this game.
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Post by Ahriman on Nov 14, 2016 7:44:32 GMT
This is what i mentioned. Those Arks aren't like the quarian ships, they weren't designated to serve as "house" to thousand of people but to travel the void between the galaxies while the crew and the colonists take a 600 years "nap". Indeed. Any waking souls are mouths to feed. They'd deplete precious resources rather quickly, considering the fact that the Ark is floating in the black with no guarantee of finding fresh supplies. It's far better to wake only the essential personnel until colonizable worlds are found. I wonder if Ark Hyperion will be damaged in a way that forces too many out of cryosleep too early, thus putting tremendous pressure on the search for a habitable world? That isn't exactly what was said, but it certainly wouldn't clash with what we know, either. I'm very ready to play this game. Honestly by the look of Deluxe Cover, I'd be surprised if most of them somehow survive that. I guess people of future are more resilient than we.
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Post by Element Zero on Nov 14, 2016 15:22:20 GMT
Indeed. Any waking souls are mouths to feed. They'd deplete precious resources rather quickly, considering the fact that the Ark is floating in the black with no guarantee of finding fresh supplies. It's far better to wake only the essential personnel until colonizable worlds are found. I wonder if Ark Hyperion will be damaged in a way that forces too many out of cryosleep too early, thus putting tremendous pressure on the search for a habitable world? That isn't exactly what was said, but it certainly wouldn't clash with what we know, either. I'm very ready to play this game. Honestly by the look of Deluxe Cover, I'd be surprised if most of them somehow survive that. I guess people of future are more resilient than we. It depends how representative that pic truly is. If it's fairly accurate, they're all screwed.
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Post by ddraigcoch123 on Nov 14, 2016 18:22:45 GMT
I obviously can wait for Andromeda to go live... but only because I HAVE to... I'm so ready for this game
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bohemiadrinker
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age Inquistion
Origin: BohemiaDrinker
PSN: BohemiaDrinker
Posts: 261 Likes: 524
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bohemiadrinker
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August 2016
bohemiadrinker
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age Inquistion
BohemiaDrinker
BohemiaDrinker
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Post by bohemiadrinker on Nov 15, 2016 2:11:26 GMT
Not an ePeen thread? I should go.
But before I go, this seems much more believable than the4 assumption most of us had that the Nexus was the same size as the citadel. Maybe the arks are so much smaller because they can dock in to the nexus to awake the population if the colonization effort fails?
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