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Post by pdomi on Nov 25, 2016 15:17:06 GMT
There are several instances where Ashley asserts that humans ARE NOT superior to aliens. If needed be, I could post links to videos demonstrating it. However, this thread is for Cora so I won't spend too muc time on this issue.
One of the interesting aspects of the Citadel species is that almost all of them have some grudges or misgivings about the others. It's no all perfect. The salarians, turians and asari donn't fully trust the krogan after the wars in which they took some of their planets by force. Many turians and humans mistrust each other because the first contact war is fresh in their mind. The krogan essentially mistrust everybody for different reasons: feeling they were used during the rachni wars and then cast aside, then severely punished after the war with the genophage, etc. Mordin said that if a salarian was caught in Tuchanka, he would immediately be treated as a spy. Many people in the Citadel looked down on the quarians for different reasons (not just for the creation of the geth), the batarians almost can't seem to get along with the governments of any other Council species...
I think all this multidirectional bad blood, mistrust etc is quite realistic and it mirrors issues we have in modern history as well. Just ask people who experienced the different crises and open warfare during the Cold War first hand. Their opinions regarding the folks from the "other block" reflect and era where the only impediment for a war between the USA and the USSR was the certainty of mutual destruction (hence the proxy wars and more localized conflicts). These are "wounds" that are not so easily healed. Back on the ME Andromeda topic, I expect these tensions to be brought to the new galaxy as well.
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Post by The Elder King on Nov 25, 2016 15:21:10 GMT
When exactly did she even say something close to that?  ? Her diffidence in ME is based on thinking that another species would always put its own before any other species (which is exactly what almost everyone did in ME, humans included). She didn't think humans are superior to other species, but that we should think of humans first. She believes in human supremacy. She has a chip on her shoulder because of what her grandfather did, and she openly says she has prejudices against aliens simply because they aren't human. That said, I don't particularly find her to be racist myself anyway. I find her to be more of a protectionist. My argument was simply to defend Mordin, who sees both the good and bad in all races, from a strictly unbiased perspective. The grandfather issue is not related to her opinions on aliens, and it's more about her pushing herself to succeed and restore the family name. The fact that she has prejudices on other species, and think we should think about ourselves first, is not any indication she things other species are inferior or that she believes in human supremacy. Otherwise she wouldn't have much problems with Cerberus. A human can have prejudices or being diffident about other species, and not believe in human supremacy. I do agree that Mordin isn't racist and believe in the good and bad of every species. You can still defend Mordin without saying Ashely believes other species are inferior, which she doesn't, as well as not having said something similar. |
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by Beerfish on Nov 25, 2016 16:14:46 GMT
When exactly did she even say something close to that? ? Her diffidence in ME is based on thinking that another species would always put its own before any other species (which is exactly what almost everyone did in ME, humans included). She didn't think humans are superior to other species, but that we should think of humans first. She believes in human supremacy. She has a chip on her shoulder because of what her grandfather did, and she openly says she has prejudices against aliens simply because they aren't human. That said, I don't particularly find her to be racist myself anyway. I find her to be more of a protectionist. My argument was simply to defend Mordin, who sees both the good and bad in all races, from a strictly unbiased perspective. I disagree with this. I never thought that was the case at all. She is military and she does not trust other races, especially when it comes to military tech. I saw little evidence that she thought humans were the el primo species. |
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Post by KaiserShep on Nov 26, 2016 5:31:12 GMT
In her position, I probably wouldn't trust the alien civilians lurking around the ship either. I'd be especially wary of the quarian that suddenly has access to engineering, where even most humans wouldn't be permitted.
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Post by Giant Ambush Beetle on Nov 27, 2016 14:07:10 GMT
^Nice badonkadonk. I'll vote for Cora.  I'm just glad that she is not wearing a catsuit. Shes wearing the next best thing though. Not a fan of that kind of outfit, armor that is so tight would not work on real people.  Liam has it right.  |
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Post by hammerstorm on Nov 27, 2016 15:57:32 GMT
I just realised that Cora's outfit (if it now is her in the image) make her butt look like a baboons. Now I hope that she won't get the "Miranda Treatment" OR that I can change her suit asap. |
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Balsam Beige
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Post by Balsam Beige on Nov 27, 2016 16:05:55 GMT
I'm just glad that she is not wearing a catsuit. Shes wearing the next best thing though. Not a fan of that kind of outfit, armor that is so tight would not work on real people. Liam has it right. Agreed, but this is a video game. You would have to admit that it is a improvement from what Miranda had to wear in the beginning of me2. Even Sara Ryder has similar type form fitting armor clearly shown in this action gif.  |
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Post by Giant Ambush Beetle on Nov 27, 2016 16:14:00 GMT
Shes wearing the next best thing though. Not a fan of that kind of outfit, armor that is so tight would not work on real people. Liam has it right. Agreed, but this is a video game. You would have to admit that it is a improvement from what Miranda had to wear in the beginning of me2. Even Sara Ryder has similar type form fitting armor clearly shown in this action gif. Yeah, it just irks me when there are male characters wearing sensible armors that would probably work in real live and next to them female characters in skin tight ''armors'' a human woman could barely walk straight in. This clichè shit stopped being funny or sexy 15 years ago. But true, you could hardly go any worse than Miranda in a catsuit in high heels / ''combat pumps''. One of the most questionable design choices I have ever seen in video games.  |
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Post by Balsam Beige on Nov 27, 2016 16:37:16 GMT
I just realised that Cora's outfit (if it now is her in the image) make her butt look like a baboons. Now I hope that she won't get the "Miranda Treatment" OR that I can change her suit asap. A change of outfit would be nice from the start. We had to pay for a dlc to put Miranda in a decent outfit. Probably be the same in this game unfortunately .  |
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Post by Kappa Neko on Nov 27, 2016 17:41:26 GMT
I don't know why, but somehow I find's Liam's pants super attractive. His whole backside.
Cora's monkey butt is weird. While I'm always in favor of outfits that flatter a person's physique (my favorite female outfit was Liara's white one, both elegant and sexy), the color scheme here is not my thing. The suit itself looks fine, would like it a lot more though if the butt had the light color.
Overall, I'm extremely happy with the armor designs we've seen so far. Well, except for the "bug helmets" with the bubble top. Somehow they look repulsive to me.
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Post by Balsam Beige on Nov 27, 2016 23:06:18 GMT
The front of the suit looks decent. The color scheme is questionable. I am looking forward to learning more about the woman inside!   |
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Post by Element Zero on Nov 28, 2016 0:38:21 GMT
Shes wearing the next best thing though. Not a fan of that kind of outfit, armor that is so tight would not work on real people. Liam has it right. Agreed, but this is a video game. You would have to admit that it is a improvement from what Miranda had to wear in the beginning of me2. Even Sara Ryder has similar type form fitting armor clearly shown in this action gif. Many are displeased by Cora's tight suit, and I'm not necessarily disagreeing, but it looks a lot like the ME1 light armors, in my opinion. (Though it looks more like the ME3 Cerberus/MP armors.) Those armors are often held up as some type of ideal, by many, so I am not surprised to now see outfits appearing that seem to draw inspiration from them. I generally prefer something a bit more substantial, but I can science-babble myself into accepting those thin suits and then mostly ignore them. We all know the real deal: They try to make the female characters have obviously female silhouettes, and the male characters male silhouettes. In games and films, form trumps function, for better or worse. At least boob-plate seems to be gone from the assortment. It turns out that one can identify a woman without seeing boobs in silhouette! Who'd have thought? I do like Liam's bulky gear. I like the apparent textures of the materials, too. Not everything needs to be metal, plastic, carbon-fiber, etc... I always put James into his DLC outfit in ME3 that was more of a woven mesh deal. It looked like Shepard's Hahne-Kedar pieces, if I recall correctly. It looked true to life, to me. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 28, 2016 2:47:34 GMT
She believes in human supremacy. She has a chip on her shoulder because of what her grandfather did, and she openly says she has prejudices against aliens simply because they aren't human. That said, I don't particularly find her to be racist myself anyway. I find her to be more of a protectionist. My argument was simply to defend Mordin, who sees both the good and bad in all races, from a strictly unbiased perspective. I disagree with this. I never thought that was the case at all. She is military and she does not trust other races, especially when it comes to military tech. I saw little evidence that she thought humans were the el primo species. Quite the opposite in fact. In squadmate banter in ME1 Ashley can tell Tali that she hopes her contributions to taking down Saren will be recognized and help end the discrimination Quarians face. If you bring Ashley along for the Terra Firma party rally she is offended and is more hostile towards Saracino than even your alien squadmates. It's pretty clear that Ashley wasn't a speciest, she just didn't trust alien squadmates poking around the Normandy because of her issues with the First Contact War. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 28, 2016 2:50:42 GMT
I like what I've seen so far from the armor design.
I like PeeBee's default outfit as well, though I hope that isn't all she wears. She should have some proper armor as well, like Ryder, Liam, and Cora.
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Post by Element Zero on Nov 28, 2016 2:53:21 GMT
I disagree with this. I never thought that was the case at all. She is military and she does not trust other races, especially when it comes to military tech. I saw little evidence that she thought humans were the el primo species. Quite the opposite in fact. In squadmate banter in ME1 Ashley can tell Tali that she hopes her contributions to taking down Saren will be recognized and help end the discrimination Quarians face. If you bring Ashley along for the Terra Firma party rally she is offended and is more hostile towards Saracino than even your alien squadmates. It's pretty clear that Ashley wasn't a speciest, she just didn't trust alien squadmates poking around the Normandy because of her issues with the First Contact War. Ash's character started with so much potential, and it was never realized because of the either/or VS scenario and the change in writers. It's a shame. All this discussion makes me sort of miss her, a bit. Even if I fire up a new run, though, I'll only have from Eden Prime to Virmire to enjoy her company. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 28, 2016 2:56:45 GMT
Quite the opposite in fact. In squadmate banter in ME1 Ashley can tell Tali that she hopes her contributions to taking down Saren will be recognized and help end the discrimination Quarians face. If you bring Ashley along for the Terra Firma party rally she is offended and is more hostile towards Saracino than even your alien squadmates. It's pretty clear that Ashley wasn't a speciest, she just didn't trust alien squadmates poking around the Normandy because of her issues with the First Contact War. Ash's character started with so much potential, and it was never realized because of the either/or VS scenario and the change in writers. It's a shame. All this discussion makes me sort of miss her, a bit. Even if I fire up a new run, though, I'll only have from Eden Prime to Virmire to enjoy her company. ME1 is definitely her best game. She started off fairly strong in ME3 as well, minus beating the Cerberus dead horse, but mostly of drops out of the game midway through until you get to the Citadel DLC. It's a shame they cut the scene where she asked Shepard about whether or not he/she experienced an afterlife. |
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Post by Element Zero on Nov 28, 2016 2:59:39 GMT
Ash's character started with so much potential, and it was never realized because of the either/or VS scenario and the change in writers. It's a shame. All this discussion makes me sort of miss her, a bit. Even if I fire up a new run, though, I'll only have from Eden Prime to Virmire to enjoy her company. ME1 is definitely her best game. She started off fairly strong in ME3 as well, minus beating the Cerberus dead horse, but mostly of drops out of the game midway through until you get to the Citadel DLC. It's a shame they cut the scene where she asked Shepard about whether or not he/she experienced an afterlife. Yep. That deleted scene would easily have been her highlight scene, had it been left in the game. I wonder why it didn't make the cut? It certainly would've helped to make ME3 Ash feel more like the same person as ME1/2 Ash. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 28, 2016 3:12:37 GMT
ME1 is definitely her best game. She started off fairly strong in ME3 as well, minus beating the Cerberus dead horse, but mostly of drops out of the game midway through until you get to the Citadel DLC. It's a shame they cut the scene where she asked Shepard about whether or not he/she experienced an afterlife. Yep. That deleted scene would easily have been her highlight scene, had it been left in the game. I wonder why it didn't make the cut? It certainly would've helped to make ME3 Ash feel more like the same person as ME1/2 Ash. There was some speculation back on the old forums that it was cut because Shepard seemed to autodialogue that nothing happened, or at least that he/she had no memory of any afterlife. The speculation went that it would be controversial because religious folks might take it as the game preaching atheism and be offended, and others not happy that it was perhaps at odds with how they roleplayed Shepard. You can have Shepard tell Ashley in ME1 that he or she believes in an afterlife, for instance. Of course that's all just fan speculation, who who knows whether or not there was any truth to it. If the fan speculation was on the money, it would have definitely been an overreaction by Bioware. They already had a scene in the series that implied there was no life after death (Benezia's dialogue while dying), and while there were a few gripes about that line, most fans didn't care. |
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Post by Element Zero on Nov 28, 2016 3:16:40 GMT
Yep. That deleted scene would easily have been her highlight scene, had it been left in the game. I wonder why it didn't make the cut? It certainly would've helped to make ME3 Ash feel more like the same person as ME1/2 Ash. There was some speculation back on the old forums that it was cut because Shepard seemed to autodialogue that nothing happened, or at least that he/she had no memory of any afterlife. The speculation went that it would be controversial because religious folks might take it as the game preaching atheism and be offended, and others not happy that it was perhaps at odds with how they roleplayed Shepard. You can have Shepard tell Ashley in ME1 that he or she believes in an afterlife, for instance. Of course that's all just fan speculation, who who knows whether or not there was any truth to it. If the fan speculation was on the money, it would have definitely been an overreaction by Bioware. They already had a scene in the series that implied there was no life after death (Benezia's dialogue while dying), and while there were a few gripes about that line, most fans didn't care. I wouldn't be surprised if this is dead-on all around. Sigh. BioWare's writers often care too much what people think. Just write your story and characters, and we'll show up to enjoy them. |
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Post by Kappa Neko on Nov 28, 2016 9:57:02 GMT
It's a shame they cut the scene where she asked Shepard about whether or not he/she experienced an afterlife. Oh, I never knew this! Shame indeed. Ashley was an even worse character than Kaidan in ME3. Maybe it was for the best they were absent for half of the game... |
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Post by Kappa Neko on Nov 28, 2016 10:18:01 GMT
We all know the real deal: They try to make the female characters have obviously female silhouettes, and the male characters male silhouettes. In games and films, form trumps function, for better or worse. At least boob-plate seems to be gone from the assortment. It turns out that one can identify a woman without seeing boobs in silhouette! Who'd have thought? But what's wrong with outfits that emphasize the physical differences between men and women? I mean, they ARE there. There is nothing sexist about that. It's simple biology. I personally find these differences very aesthetically pleasing. Unless they are grotesquely exaggerated and become caricatures. But a well-proportioned athletic male or female body is very beautiful. Nothing wrong to me with looking fit and having the armor reflect that since this is what we'll be seeing 90% of the game. |
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Post by Element Zero on Nov 28, 2016 16:52:52 GMT
We all know the real deal: They try to make the female characters have obviously female silhouettes, and the male characters male silhouettes. In games and films, form trumps function, for better or worse. At least boob-plate seems to be gone from the assortment. It turns out that one can identify a woman without seeing boobs in silhouette! Who'd have thought? But what's wrong with outfits that emphasize the physical differences between men and women? I mean, they ARE there. There is nothing sexist about that. It's simple biology. I personally find these differences very aesthetically pleasing. Unless they are grotesquely exaggerated and become caricatures. But a well-proportioned athletic male or female body is very beautiful. Nothing wrong to me with looking fit and having the armor reflect that since this is what we'll be seeing 90% of the game. Predictably, I'm a fan of the female form. I prefer realistic armor, though, to armor that is designed to accentuate the body. Armor that looks "realistic" to me adds to verisimilitude. Armor like FemShep's boob-plate ruins it. I don't need to see, or be reminded of, a woman's "assets" to recognize that she's a woman. So, I don't mind if the female armor is slightly different from the male version. That would make sense, given the differences in our bodies. I just don't like to see the huge differences that we see in most games. |
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Post by Kappa Neko on Nov 28, 2016 18:25:42 GMT
Predictably, I'm a fan of the female form. I prefer realistic armor, though, to armor that is designed to accentuate the body. Armor that looks "realistic" to me adds to verisimilitude. Armor like FemShep's boob-plate ruins it. I don't need to see, or be reminded of, a woman's "assets" to recognize that she's a woman. So, I don't mind if the female armor is slightly different from the male version. That would make sense, given the differences in our bodies. I just don't like to see the huge differences that we see in most games. After listening to a very good friend of mine rage about those idiots online who claim boob plate armor is silly and dangerous because they have no understanding of metal or the psychology behind sexy armor or even no armor, I can no longer agree with you. But I don't want to drag up his arguments. It's not my place to argue anyway. I actually thought most boob plate armor looked silly for the longest time. Then I was shown pictures of ancient real life armor with nipples crafted on them and whatnot and I realized it's just human nature to dress up like peacocks. So let's just agree to disagree. *g* Either way, Mass Effect - with the exception of Miranda and Jack - has always had fairly "sensible" armor that wasn't really over-sexualized either. You can't even tell the person wearing the super heavy vanguard armor in ME3 is a woman. They look almost identical. I like attractive armor and attractive companions. I still find Miranda's high heels eye-roll worthy. Jack looks silly in space but otherwise fine. Both outfits fit their personalities though. I just wish there was a casual outfit for them and one for combat. Peebee's outfit is a non-issue to me at this point because we don't know what environment that planet has. Also, I like the outfit. Looks good on her. And this is a sci-fi fantasy action franchise. Nothing realistic about any of this anyway, I guess. Unless it's something really jarring like walking through acid rain in a bikini, I don't really care. I freely admit I just want to look at pretty things and pretty people in pretty clothes and collect shiny rocks. Not sorry. |
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Post by Element Zero on Nov 28, 2016 18:35:34 GMT
Predictably, I'm a fan of the female form. I prefer realistic armor, though, to armor that is designed to accentuate the body. Armor that looks "realistic" to me adds to verisimilitude. Armor like FemShep's boob-plate ruins it. I don't need to see, or be reminded of, a woman's "assets" to recognize that she's a woman. So, I don't mind if the female armor is slightly different from the male version. That would make sense, given the differences in our bodies. I just don't like to see the huge differences that we see in most games. After listening to a very good friend of mine rage about those idiots online who claim boob plate armor is silly and dangerous because they have no understanding of metal or the psychology behind sexy armor or even no armor, I can no longer agree with you. But I don't want to drag up his arguments. It's not my place to argue anyway. I actually thought most boob plate armor looked silly for the longest time. Then I was shown pictures of ancient real life armor with nipples crafted on them and whatnot and I realized it's just human nature to dress up like peacocks. So let's just agree to disagree. *g* Either way, Mass Effect - with the exception of Miranda and Jack - has always had fairly "sensible" armor that wasn't really over-sexualized either. You can't even tell the person wearing the super heavy vanguard armor in ME3 is a woman. They look almost identical. I like attractive armor and attractive companions. I still find Miranda's high heels eye-roll worthy. Jack looks silly in space but otherwise fine. Both outfits fit their personalities though. I just wish there was a casual outfit for them and one for combat. Peebee's outfit is a non-issue to me at this point because we don't know what environment that planet has. Also, I like the outfit. Looks good on her. And this is a sci-fi fantasy action franchise. Nothing realistic about any of this anyway, I guess. Unless it's something really jarring like walking through acid rain in a bikini, I don't really care. I freely admit I just want to look at pretty things and pretty people in pretty clothes and collect shiny rocks. Not sorry. I tend to lean a bit more simulationist in my desires, where it pertains to small details, but I can understand this. I think the devs of this game, and most others, tend to see things your way. |
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Nov 26, 2024 22:41:17 GMT
11,091
Kappa Neko
...lives for biotic explosions. And cheesecake!
4,198
Oct 18, 2016 21:17:18 GMT
October 2016
kappaneko
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Kappa Neko on Nov 28, 2016 18:45:31 GMT
I tend to lean a bit more simulationist in my desires, where it pertains to small details, but I can understand this. I think the devs of this game, and most others, tend to see things your way. I respect that. I can understand it too. I actually liked ME1's more geeky style over the somewhat juvenile character design of ME2, even though most of the armor was ugly as hell. And I'm kind of excited about the idea of Star Citizen. I would play a totally realistic hiking simulation, for example. I like games like Dear Esther a lot. And I actually hate all the anime mods for Skyrim. I don't like THAT game looking too unrealistic. So I guess it depends on the setting and overall mood of the game. Mass Effect to me is like a good popcorn flick. Biotics are sexy stuff. So my adept needs to look sexy too.  |
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