Post by CosmicGnosis on Nov 20, 2016 1:08:37 GMT
This is a re-post of one of my threads from the old BSN. I will include some additional thoughts below the original post.
Original Post:
If I choose Destroy, do I dispel the Reapers' Lovecraftian mystique? That is, in my opinion, the true victory. To conquer the unknown. To shine a light in the dark places. To prove Lovecraft wrong; there is no forbidden knowledge, and we should not fear the unknown.
Here is an interesting paragraph about Lovecraft from Wikipedia:
Forbidden knowledge is a central theme in many of Lovecraft's works. Many characters that he wrote are driven by curiosity or scientific endeavor, and in many of his stories the knowledge they uncover proves Promethean in nature either filling the seeker with regret from what they have learned, destroying them psychically, or completely destroying the person who holds the knowledge.
Sounds a lot like indoctrination from Reaper tech, right? You see, I have come to associate Destroy with this way of thinking. The Lovecraftian horrors are to be feared. Sure, you can kill them in Mass Effect, but is that really a victory? If they remain mysterious, if their existence remains forever unknowable to us, then I view that as a failure. That is why Control and Synthesis are so appealing to me. That is why I am inspired by the Illusive Man's statement about humanity's discovery of the mass relays. Those endings represent a willingness to embrace the unknown; if we understand the monsters, then they are no longer monsters.
On a narrative level, the Reapers are our enemies because they are killing us for a purpose that we don't agree with. On a philosophical level, however, they represent that which we are never meant to know. The Reapers certainly seem inspired by Lovecraft's philosophy of cosmicism, especially the Catalyst's perspective. I worry that Destroy does nothing to dispel the Lovecraftian philosophy that lies at the center of everything the Reapers represent. Unless, of course, studying their corpses somehow accomplishes this.
Additional Thoughts:
"When humanity discovered the mass relays, when we learned there was more to the galaxy than we imagined... there were some who thought the relays should be destroyed. They were scared of what we'd find, terrified of what we might let in. But look at what humanity has achieved! Since that discovery, we've advanced more than the past ten thousand years combined!"
It must be noted that Reaper Indoctrination is intended to be similar to the general madness that Lovecraft's characters succumb to whenever they learn too much about the Unknown™. The message is that we should fear the universe and not look too closely at it because our curiosity will inevitably lead us to such horrific and incomprehensible revelations that we will be driven to insanity. The more you learn, the more you want to know, and the more aware you become of what you don't know, and the answers get stranger and more unsettling. Einstein's Theory of General Relativity is an example of this completely unintuitive reality that Lovecraft feared; it's so beyond us, and yet it lurks in the background of our daily lives... what other bizarre and potentially frightening truths are there to discover?
I suspect that Indoctrination implants a horrifying truth within the subconscious mind of the victim. This truth, whatever it may be, is what ultimately erodes the victim's consciousness. As the Indoctrination takes hold, the victim's thinking is twisted and clouded to the point that their original motives now serve the Reapers. I doubt that the victim is ever consciously aware of the truth implanted within their mind. It's likely just a vague realization that the Reapers' plans are beyond anything that a feeble organic mind could ever fathom or appreciate. The average person cannot resist this subtle thinking. Eventually, it breaks their will and overtakes them. This is when they become utterly lost.
So what does this mean for Shepard? Is he immune to Indoctrination? Well, there are intriguing implications here. We are told several times that Shepard is somehow "special", but this is never actually explained. Could Shepard be special because he is immune to Indoctrination? That is, could Shepard's will be so strong that it cannot be broken by the horrifying truth that is implanted within his mind? Even more astonishing, can he actually comprehend it?
I think this is what the ending is actually about. It's not an Indoctrination attempt in the sense that the Indoctrination Theory argues, though. Rather, it's more subtle and profound. Shepard can actually have a conversation with the Catalyst. Shepard is deemed worthy of being spoken to. Shepard can withstand the enormous strain on his sense of self as the something-billion-year-old Lovecraftian-esque Intelligence imparts the knowledge of the ages into his mind. In this case, the knowledge of the eternal cycle of the created and their creators, as well as the horrifying realization that something like the Reapers may be necessary for organic life in this universe. I should note that I don't believe the decision chamber is real. The dream-like qualities of the scene combined with the overly literal methods of activating the Crucible (shoot a tube, grab some rods, jump into a beam) suggest that Shepard's mind is interfacing with the Catalyst.
So Shepard comes to understand the purpose of the Reapers, and then has to make a decision that will solve this cosmic problem. All choices, with the exception of Rejection, dispel the Lovecraftian mystique of the Reapers. Destruction outright kills the monsters, and that is impressive. However, this choice does seem to maintain some of the mystique because the Reapers are merely obliterated, and not actually understood. Control turns Shepard into a Lovecraftian being, and thus likely preserves some of the mystique as well. All the choices are life-affirming, but only Synthesis actually makes the Reapers comprehensible to all beings within the galaxy; we don't join them, but rather they join us. And this is the true victory over the Reapers: They can be known. They can be understood. To embrace the Reapers is to embrace the unknown. To understand the unknown is to conquer fear itself. To dispel the Reapers' Lovecraftian mystique is to understand the cosmos: All that was, all that is, and all that ever will be.
So am I indoctrinated now? Have I lost my mind?
Original Post:
If I choose Destroy, do I dispel the Reapers' Lovecraftian mystique? That is, in my opinion, the true victory. To conquer the unknown. To shine a light in the dark places. To prove Lovecraft wrong; there is no forbidden knowledge, and we should not fear the unknown.
Here is an interesting paragraph about Lovecraft from Wikipedia:
Forbidden knowledge is a central theme in many of Lovecraft's works. Many characters that he wrote are driven by curiosity or scientific endeavor, and in many of his stories the knowledge they uncover proves Promethean in nature either filling the seeker with regret from what they have learned, destroying them psychically, or completely destroying the person who holds the knowledge.
Sounds a lot like indoctrination from Reaper tech, right? You see, I have come to associate Destroy with this way of thinking. The Lovecraftian horrors are to be feared. Sure, you can kill them in Mass Effect, but is that really a victory? If they remain mysterious, if their existence remains forever unknowable to us, then I view that as a failure. That is why Control and Synthesis are so appealing to me. That is why I am inspired by the Illusive Man's statement about humanity's discovery of the mass relays. Those endings represent a willingness to embrace the unknown; if we understand the monsters, then they are no longer monsters.
On a narrative level, the Reapers are our enemies because they are killing us for a purpose that we don't agree with. On a philosophical level, however, they represent that which we are never meant to know. The Reapers certainly seem inspired by Lovecraft's philosophy of cosmicism, especially the Catalyst's perspective. I worry that Destroy does nothing to dispel the Lovecraftian philosophy that lies at the center of everything the Reapers represent. Unless, of course, studying their corpses somehow accomplishes this.
Additional Thoughts:
"When humanity discovered the mass relays, when we learned there was more to the galaxy than we imagined... there were some who thought the relays should be destroyed. They were scared of what we'd find, terrified of what we might let in. But look at what humanity has achieved! Since that discovery, we've advanced more than the past ten thousand years combined!"
It must be noted that Reaper Indoctrination is intended to be similar to the general madness that Lovecraft's characters succumb to whenever they learn too much about the Unknown™. The message is that we should fear the universe and not look too closely at it because our curiosity will inevitably lead us to such horrific and incomprehensible revelations that we will be driven to insanity. The more you learn, the more you want to know, and the more aware you become of what you don't know, and the answers get stranger and more unsettling. Einstein's Theory of General Relativity is an example of this completely unintuitive reality that Lovecraft feared; it's so beyond us, and yet it lurks in the background of our daily lives... what other bizarre and potentially frightening truths are there to discover?
I suspect that Indoctrination implants a horrifying truth within the subconscious mind of the victim. This truth, whatever it may be, is what ultimately erodes the victim's consciousness. As the Indoctrination takes hold, the victim's thinking is twisted and clouded to the point that their original motives now serve the Reapers. I doubt that the victim is ever consciously aware of the truth implanted within their mind. It's likely just a vague realization that the Reapers' plans are beyond anything that a feeble organic mind could ever fathom or appreciate. The average person cannot resist this subtle thinking. Eventually, it breaks their will and overtakes them. This is when they become utterly lost.
So what does this mean for Shepard? Is he immune to Indoctrination? Well, there are intriguing implications here. We are told several times that Shepard is somehow "special", but this is never actually explained. Could Shepard be special because he is immune to Indoctrination? That is, could Shepard's will be so strong that it cannot be broken by the horrifying truth that is implanted within his mind? Even more astonishing, can he actually comprehend it?
I think this is what the ending is actually about. It's not an Indoctrination attempt in the sense that the Indoctrination Theory argues, though. Rather, it's more subtle and profound. Shepard can actually have a conversation with the Catalyst. Shepard is deemed worthy of being spoken to. Shepard can withstand the enormous strain on his sense of self as the something-billion-year-old Lovecraftian-esque Intelligence imparts the knowledge of the ages into his mind. In this case, the knowledge of the eternal cycle of the created and their creators, as well as the horrifying realization that something like the Reapers may be necessary for organic life in this universe. I should note that I don't believe the decision chamber is real. The dream-like qualities of the scene combined with the overly literal methods of activating the Crucible (shoot a tube, grab some rods, jump into a beam) suggest that Shepard's mind is interfacing with the Catalyst.
So Shepard comes to understand the purpose of the Reapers, and then has to make a decision that will solve this cosmic problem. All choices, with the exception of Rejection, dispel the Lovecraftian mystique of the Reapers. Destruction outright kills the monsters, and that is impressive. However, this choice does seem to maintain some of the mystique because the Reapers are merely obliterated, and not actually understood. Control turns Shepard into a Lovecraftian being, and thus likely preserves some of the mystique as well. All the choices are life-affirming, but only Synthesis actually makes the Reapers comprehensible to all beings within the galaxy; we don't join them, but rather they join us. And this is the true victory over the Reapers: They can be known. They can be understood. To embrace the Reapers is to embrace the unknown. To understand the unknown is to conquer fear itself. To dispel the Reapers' Lovecraftian mystique is to understand the cosmos: All that was, all that is, and all that ever will be.
So am I indoctrinated now? Have I lost my mind?
Be seeing you.