Dukemon
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: Dukemon11
PSN: dukemon09
Posts: 516 Likes: 321
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dukemon
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Dukemon11
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Post by Dukemon on Nov 20, 2016 2:19:17 GMT
In Dragon Age we have played characters Who were known as especially powerful in all desciplines. The warrior is an unbeaten swordsman (Cousland Origin) a talented thief or a superior Mage the one and only favorit from the First Enchanter (Mage Origin and Human Origin). However, in the prograssing Story we have to learn our super talented Mage is knowing nothing of his job. He can slaying every foe by doom, but when you don't want to use blood magic to Rescue Eamon the Mage has no idea what to do. He even has any dialogue Option to mention they could go to the circle of magi. He has only to ask what they could do else... The evil blood Mage have to explain how it works with the veil and only when the evil blood mage is telling us something about the danger of tears in it, to explain Levi why the deads are alive. At the beginning of the Story we got told that mages are learning the whole life about how to controll there magic and so on. But our super Exceptional of a mage needs a ghost to cick the demon out of his mind. He can nothing explain. Our apostate (!) is available to tell us that there are magic words on the piece of paper.
Shepard is using his biotic power to cick in some asses. But he is needing always some one other to explain biotic or tech, if Shepard can use drones in the battle.
What i want to ask, Do you want to play someone who is in dialoges always the super biotic, magic, tech dude but has never something to say about knowledge? Really?
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Jaal Ama Darav (Kierro)
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, Mass Effect Andromeda
PSN: Kierrok
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Jaal Ama Darav (Kierro)
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kierro
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Post by Jaal Ama Darav (Kierro) on Nov 20, 2016 2:28:34 GMT
You mean admit to their powers and knowledge? Some what like citadel did during the clone fight? How there was a scene with Shepard and clone using biotic?
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Post by Vall on Nov 20, 2016 3:12:43 GMT
So what exactly are you asking? Why doesn't our hero know everything? Because they don't... the Mage Warden, while exceptionally talented, is also drafted into Grey Wardens more or less right after their Harrowing, so before they had a chance to explore deeper mysteries of the Arcane. Hawke was likely never taught any magic beyond what they needed to remain undetected by Templars and to survive.
And why does Shepard need to have complexities of the universe explained to her? Simple, she is no scientist, no technician, she is a soldier.
(Well, those are in-character explanations, but most likely reason is that lore needs to be explained to us, players...also, ouch, that english hurts)
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Shinobu
Grateful to have this forum. Also, a giant killjoy.
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Shinobu on Nov 20, 2016 3:31:58 GMT
Having our Dalish Elf needing to be told who Mythal was did feel ridiculous, but the players who aren't steeped in lore need to get that info somehow and many of them aren't going to read the Codex. It might have been less awkward if the protagonist explained the thing they were supposedly knowledgeable about instead of having it explained TO them. That way the player would still get the information but the protagonist would look less like an idiot. One positive use of autodialogue, I guess.
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Dukemon
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: Dukemon11
PSN: dukemon09
Posts: 516 Likes: 321
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dukemon
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Post by Dukemon on Nov 20, 2016 12:48:26 GMT
You mean admit to their powers and knowledge? Some what like citadel did during the clone fight? How there was a scene with Shepard and clone using biotic? Yes, but the fight in the citadel dlc was only a more detailed fight like every other, basically. No, I don't want that the HC know everything, he should know his own school. The noble should know about the behavior as nobleman, he should have knowledge about circumstances in some kingdomes and there politics. Compared to other origins the Trevelyan in DAI is the best written HC. At least he knows a little bit about politics and nobility families, which corresponds to his role. Thats enough, already. But how Shinobu said, it is awkward that our Dalish, when a mage, is the First of the Dalish Clan Keeper but need to have Morrigan to explain the easiest things about those things a Merrill knew about. that does not fit. It does not matter that the player don't know nothing. We are playing someone how lived in his world, even before we take the controll over him. From all sides you can hear that our mage has unusually strong magic and is talented. Our warrior wins all of the battles and is unbeaten. In ME Shepard could be a biotic and have to learned to control this power and what are the possibilities. We know it because Kaidan had explained that, but in the trilogie we only see Shepard can people with it, nothing more. In the collector base, some of the biotic squad mates have to give a hint they could use biotic. Shepard has no idea. Same as with the tech Shepard. There is no scene where Shepard could be better then other classes to master a situation. All of it are only 'How to kill people' not 'How could we survive or solve this problem' We don'T know when Trevelyan brought to the circle, but the Amell have to be very young when he got his magic und brought to the circle. The Trevelyan knowing about his family, the Amell not. The Amell lived the whole life in the circle and in the game get to hear that our mage was very interested to learn about magic. He was the favorit from ther First Enchanter and his Apprentices. That means our mage had access to all books and spells. Circle mages have to know very much to be not a danger for others, so I think he should already know about the veil, the dangers of tears, the fade, the demons and the ghosts. He have to know that the circle could help to enter the fade and only to kill the demon to rescue everyone. Hawke learned everything from his father, who is a former circle mage. Actually, it is the same. Hawke have to learn even more, because like you already said they have to hide in freedom. But how I said, Hawke talks more about magic knowledge then Trevelyan, Adaar and Amell together. Trevelyan is needing a ghost to prevent to be possessed. well, I know, but I always had a problem with grammar and time in English. it is very confusing to me.
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Post by Vall on Nov 20, 2016 16:36:57 GMT
well, I know, but I always had a problem with grammar and time in English. it is very confusing to me. Start reading books in english, it helps a lot And to be honest, I never really thought about why MCs seem to lack knowledge in some cases, I guess I headcanoned that they just didn't think of the option, or avoided asking about things my character would know thanks to their background.
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hipi07
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, KOTOR
XBL Gamertag: Hipi07
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hipi07
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Post by hipi07 on Nov 20, 2016 16:44:38 GMT
Uhhh
wat
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Adhin
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
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Post by Adhin on Nov 20, 2016 17:19:19 GMT
So I am definitely for character class being taken into account for dialog prompts. Especially when it's semi-common or basic knowledge in relation to that. I feel like BioWare games haven't really done that as much as I would like. Inquisition did get into that a bit more which I was happy to see. Plus had inquisition perks to unlock similar dialog options. I had a Reaver character I played based off some DnD Barb I had that also had spellcraft knowledge (for knowing wtf was being cast at him) and I liked that I was able to spend my 1st or 2nd inquisition perk on arcane knowledge to make that a reality for the RP's. So.. yes, but it shouldn't be forced. There always needs to be that option for the person who doesn't know, or who just wants more details on things even if their character should know. But it would be nice if due to our class choices little bit of dialog options would crop up. Course, Ryders 'classes' so not sure how that'll work. I know they have class profiles you can select based off power choices and whatnot. ..It'll be a bit weird if we spend all our points on Solder and/or Engineer but still get some biotic related prompt. If that kinda thing starts happening I'll probably always put a point into each skill tree just to headcannon my self of 'well s/he knows biotics but they just don't use em much' and leave it up to prompt/cutscenes at that point. edit: Oh also theres ways to give the player information that involves the main character not seeming like a complete idiot. Usually it's via the PC and the NPC havnig a back and forth that explains it. NPC all 'I need you to do this', PC character chimes in with 'the blah blah, cause of this?' 'NPC, yeah it should help with the blah blah' PC ' Ahh yeah, and the whatever fancyscifithing too' NPC ' yeah exactly!' Far to often it's the NPC saying the initial part and the PC goes 'duurhh wha now? Shiny button?' then you have a lecture on sci-fi babble. Which can be entertaining too, just.. it's not the only way to do it.
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animalboy
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Duke Cameron on Nov 21, 2016 0:04:51 GMT
I agree. I'd like a character to have the ability to talk about his abilities/class.
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