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So far 2024 is the same as the previous three years...
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Post by Energizer Bunny 211 on Aug 13, 2020 12:42:33 GMT
Amen. While I enjoy the "Disney Trilogy", I personally don't count them as part of the "Skywalker Saga" (though Nine in particular was advertised as such, "the final installment of the skywalker saga).... *shakes head*. Not in my books it's not. That ended with Return of the Jedi. And really, it shou.d have ended there, because Lucas himself said in the Empire of Dreams documentary, and in the 3 part OT THX VHS interview with Leonard Maltin , something along the lines of "in the Original trilogy, you have this bad guy, you don't know who he is, but you know he's evil, and he's just always in a big black suit. But you don't know what it took to get him there, so in Episodes 1-3, I explore the character of Anakin Skywalker, his fall from grace, and turn to the dark side to become the villain you know from the first three movies. Then if you go back and watch the original trilogy, you understand that those about his son's attempt to save him. The original trilogy becomes about the salvation of Anakin Skywalker through his son." (that was a paraphrase but I think the point is clear) The PT/OT combined together tell the redemptive story of Anakin Skywalker, passing one generation to his son who fights for the salvation of his father so that he can be redeemed of evil and return to the light side to be the Jedi he once was. While I don't care for The Phantom Menace very much, and would personally begin watching at AOTC....the PT as a whole does tell the early life of Anakin from boyhood through to maturing and earning the rank of Jedi Knight in the waning glory days of the Old Republic "before the dark times. Before the Empire," as Obi-Wan once said. And then the OT is about the son of Anakin Skywalker (on the surface) but as I said, if you look deeper, I think the OT is equally about the redemption of Anakin Skywalker. SO together they tell the complete story of the Skywalker family and it's legacy. The Disney Trilogy is about new characters and a new fight, similar themes, yes....But new adventures. Old characters may pop in once in a while (as cameos are always fun)....But personally I don't consider the Disney Trilogy as part of the Skywalker Saga. Because, one good point that a friend of mine made is the (convenient) inexplicable return of the the Emperor. I feel, personally, that while they did an okay job of explaining how he returned after his apparent death some 30 years earlier, bringing him back because they "needed a bad guy" was not only a lazy writing move.....It also more importantly, cheapened Anakin's self-sacrifice at the end of ROTJ. Darth Vader (who had become Anakin once again) killed the Emperor throwing him down the shaft of the reactor to save his son, but wound up killing himself in the process. But the Emperor was dead, so his sacrifice was worth it. His son and daughter were safe. He could die and return to the Force a Jedi, knowing that his sacrifice was not in vain. Until JJ Abrams, the unimaginative, unoriginal hack writer who rides his own celebrity status, gets a hold of the script to write a new installment. They introduce a new mysterious villain whom every audience member wants to know about......Only brush him off in Eight and then in Nine give a one line explanation that Snoke himself was a clone. Or possibly a clone of a clone. And the real villain was Emperor Palpatine. So Anakin did die in vain, because the Emperor didn't perish in the reactor. Stupid move, incredibly lazy writing that the more I watch the Disney Trilogy, the more I don't like what they've done. As I said earlier, I enjoy the Disney trilogy for the new characters, new adventures and whatnot....But I do not, will not accept or acknowledge them as part of the Skywalker Saga.
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Post by Hier0phant on Aug 14, 2020 2:44:11 GMT
New feats from Marvel's Darth Vader. At the Lars' homestead Vader uses a force barrier to protect himself from cannon fire, TKs the attacking ships out of the sky and slaughters the lead fighter's crew.
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Post by Hier0phant on Aug 14, 2020 3:05:27 GMT
Vader kills a Sando Aqua Monster, Kratos style, after being lured into a trap on Naboo by Padme's friends who sought revenge for her, and Anakin's deaths.
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Post by KaiserShep on Aug 14, 2020 10:55:40 GMT
Amen. While I enjoy the "Disney Trilogy", I personally don't count them as part of the "Skywalker Saga" (though Nine in particular was advertised as such, "the final installment of the skywalker saga).... *shakes head*. Not in my books it's not. That ended with Return of the Jedi. And really, it shou.d have ended there, because Lucas himself said in the Empire of Dreams documentary, and in the 3 part OT THX VHS interview with Leonard Maltin , something along the lines of "in the Original trilogy, you have this bad guy, you don't know who he is, but you know he's evil, and he's just always in a big black suit. But you don't know what it took to get him there, so in Episodes 1-3, I explore the character of Anakin Skywalker, his fall from grace, and turn to the dark side to become the villain you know from the first three movies. Then if you go back and watch the original trilogy, you understand that those about his son's attempt to save him. The original trilogy becomes about the salvation of Anakin Skywalker through his son." (that was a paraphrase but I think the point is clear) The PT/OT combined together tell the redemptive story of Anakin Skywalker, passing one generation to his son who fights for the salvation of his father so that he can be redeemed of evil and return to the light side to be the Jedi he once was. While I don't care for The Phantom Menace very much, and would personally begin watching at AOTC....the PT as a whole does tell the early life of Anakin from boyhood through to maturing and earning the rank of Jedi Knight in the waning glory days of the Old Republic "before the dark times. Before the Empire," as Obi-Wan once said. And then the OT is about the son of Anakin Skywalker (on the surface) but as I said, if you look deeper, I think the OT is equally about the redemption of Anakin Skywalker. SO together they tell the complete story of the Skywalker family and it's legacy. The Disney Trilogy is about new characters and a new fight, similar themes, yes....But new adventures. Old characters may pop in once in a while (as cameos are always fun)....But personally I don't consider the Disney Trilogy as part of the Skywalker Saga. Because, one good point that a friend of mine made is the (convenient) inexplicable return of the the Emperor. I feel, personally, that while they did an okay job of explaining how he returned after his apparent death some 30 years earlier, bringing him back because they "needed a bad guy" was not only a lazy writing move.....It also more importantly, cheapened Anakin's self-sacrifice at the end of ROTJ. Darth Vader (who had become Anakin once again) killed the Emperor throwing him down the shaft of the reactor to save his son, but wound up killing himself in the process. But the Emperor was dead, so his sacrifice was worth it. His son and daughter were safe. He could die and return to the Force a Jedi, knowing that his sacrifice was not in vain. Until JJ Abrams, the unimaginative, unoriginal hack writer who rides his own celebrity status, gets a hold of the script to write a new installment. They introduce a new mysterious villain whom every audience member wants to know about......Only brush him off in Eight and then in Nine give a one line explanation that Snoke himself was a clone. Or possibly a clone of a clone. And the real villain was Emperor Palpatine. So Anakin did die in vain, because the Emperor didn't perish in the reactor. Stupid move, incredibly lazy writing that the more I watch the Disney Trilogy, the more I don't like what they've done. As I said earlier, I enjoy the Disney trilogy for the new characters, new adventures and whatnot....But I do not, will not accept or acknowledge them as part of the Skywalker Saga.
Beyond some basic character archetypes to start, the filmmakers clearly had absolutely no vision going forward when they started pouring money into production. The thing JJ Abrams is really good at is tricking people into believing a movie is good by overloading each act at a pace that can make it very easy to miss a lot of the egregious failings in any form of internal logic or hack-level story add-ons that are simply there "because it's cool". I mean, the guy actually says these things like that's actually a good thing. This has been his MO in just about every film he's done until this point. Star Trek 2009 serves as the perfect template he would use going forward when he did these movies. Just look at its Nero plot under even light scrutiny, and it's clear he has no real concern for characters and plot. Everything is in service of set pieces, no matter the cost.
It's kind of impressive how Disney managed to wrangle a hack who doesn't really understand Star Wars, another who actually dislikes it, and then have it under the oversight of a pillar of ineptitude that probably actively detests both the franchise and George Lucas himself.
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So far 2024 is the same as the previous three years...
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Jan 15, 2017 18:43:23 GMT
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Post by Energizer Bunny 211 on Aug 14, 2020 12:00:57 GMT
Amen. While I enjoy the "Disney Trilogy", I personally don't count them as part of the "Skywalker Saga" (though Nine in particular was advertised as such, "the final installment of the skywalker saga).... *shakes head*. Not in my books it's not. That ended with Return of the Jedi. And really, it shou.d have ended there, because Lucas himself said in the Empire of Dreams documentary, and in the 3 part OT THX VHS interview with Leonard Maltin , something along the lines of "in the Original trilogy, you have this bad guy, you don't know who he is, but you know he's evil, and he's just always in a big black suit. But you don't know what it took to get him there, so in Episodes 1-3, I explore the character of Anakin Skywalker, his fall from grace, and turn to the dark side to become the villain you know from the first three movies. Then if you go back and watch the original trilogy, you understand that those about his son's attempt to save him. The original trilogy becomes about the salvation of Anakin Skywalker through his son." (that was a paraphrase but I think the point is clear) The PT/OT combined together tell the redemptive story of Anakin Skywalker, passing one generation to his son who fights for the salvation of his father so that he can be redeemed of evil and return to the light side to be the Jedi he once was. While I don't care for The Phantom Menace very much, and would personally begin watching at AOTC....the PT as a whole does tell the early life of Anakin from boyhood through to maturing and earning the rank of Jedi Knight in the waning glory days of the Old Republic "before the dark times. Before the Empire," as Obi-Wan once said. And then the OT is about the son of Anakin Skywalker (on the surface) but as I said, if you look deeper, I think the OT is equally about the redemption of Anakin Skywalker. SO together they tell the complete story of the Skywalker family and it's legacy. The Disney Trilogy is about new characters and a new fight, similar themes, yes....But new adventures. Old characters may pop in once in a while (as cameos are always fun)....But personally I don't consider the Disney Trilogy as part of the Skywalker Saga. Because, one good point that a friend of mine made is the (convenient) inexplicable return of the the Emperor. I feel, personally, that while they did an okay job of explaining how he returned after his apparent death some 30 years earlier, bringing him back because they "needed a bad guy" was not only a lazy writing move.....It also more importantly, cheapened Anakin's self-sacrifice at the end of ROTJ. Darth Vader (who had become Anakin once again) killed the Emperor throwing him down the shaft of the reactor to save his son, but wound up killing himself in the process. But the Emperor was dead, so his sacrifice was worth it. His son and daughter were safe. He could die and return to the Force a Jedi, knowing that his sacrifice was not in vain. Until JJ Abrams, the unimaginative, unoriginal hack writer who rides his own celebrity status, gets a hold of the script to write a new installment. They introduce a new mysterious villain whom every audience member wants to know about......Only brush him off in Eight and then in Nine give a one line explanation that Snoke himself was a clone. Or possibly a clone of a clone. And the real villain was Emperor Palpatine. So Anakin did die in vain, because the Emperor didn't perish in the reactor. Stupid move, incredibly lazy writing that the more I watch the Disney Trilogy, the more I don't like what they've done. As I said earlier, I enjoy the Disney trilogy for the new characters, new adventures and whatnot....But I do not, will not accept or acknowledge them as part of the Skywalker Saga.
Beyond some basic character archetypes to start, the filmmakers clearly had absolutely no vision going forward when they started pouring money into production. The thing JJ Abrams is really good at is tricking people into believing a movie is good by overloading each act at a pace that can make it very easy to miss a lot of the egregious failings in any form of internal logic or hack-level story add-ons that are simply there "because it's cool". I mean, the guy actually says these things like that's actually a good thing. This has been his MO in just about every film he's done until this point. Star Trek 2009 serves as the perfect template he would use going forward when he did these movies. Just look at its Nero plot under even light scrutiny, and it's clear he has no real concern for characters and plot. Everything is in service of set pieces, no matter the cost.
It's kind of impressive how Disney managed to wrangle a hack who doesn't really understand Star Wars, another who actually dislikes it, and then have it under the oversight of a pillar of ineptitude that probably actively detests both the franchise and George Lucas himself.
Completely agree. While I don't think Lucas is a very good Director-- hear me out on that. I love love love star wars ever since I was 2 or 3 years old, to me Star Wars has a "movie magic" about it that few other films capture. It is and will always be my favourite movie franchise. The reason I say Lucas is "not a good Director" is because it's well documented that his only direction to the OT actos "mm, faster and more intense"; he really struggled to articulate what it was he wanted and expected from the actors in terms of their performance, and what it was he was seeing in his imagination. He has such a vivid imagination, he struggled to convey it to his actors and crew. Actors and Crew NEED Direction, they need to know what the Director sees in his head, how he sees a scene unfold, so that they can act it out and frame it properly and shoot it properly. Lucas struggled greatly in communicating those things, it's only because of the talented crew and the chemistry between Hamill, FOrd and Fisher that the OT works as amazingly as it does. I have learned this as I've gotten older and studied films and stories for their Direction/Authorship, writing etc. And also watching countless movies growing up. Yet as a child, I couldn't say, see or find anything, not a single thing bad or wrong with STAR WARS no matter what. If I was a child and I watched the Disney Trilogy for perhaps the first time, I very well may have thought it was amazing -- just like the rest. I wouldn't have learned how or had the maturity to be able to scrutinize it the way I have now. That being said, where I do think Lucas excels (even beyond his shortcomings as a Director) is in his imagination and story writing/storytelling ability. STAR WARS works (the PT/OT) as well as it does because of the story and how it is told. There is certainly some egregious acting (wooden acting from Jake Lloyd, and whining from Hayden in AOTC) but that is part again, due to the DIrection given by Lucas, but the story of the PT is one that has always fascinated me ever since the 1995 THX VHS interview segments, and also the TIE FIGHTER Collector's Edition Strategy Guide. Inside at the back there was a blurb about how Anakin fell into lava and his body was burned, after a duel with Obi-Wan. That is how he became Darth Vader. And of course there is the dialogue exchange between Luke and Obi-Wan in Obi-Wan's hut, about his past as a General in the CLone Wars. That always sparked my imagination. So the PT tells those stories. It's an era in the Star WARs universe that was ripe for good, imaginative telling, and while I think Lucas went way overboard on the use of CGI....at its heart it is filled with themes and still remains a great story. So, I think while Lucas isn't good at some things, he excels at others.....and no matter what DISNEY does to the franchise, STAR WARS will belong to George Lucas.
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mousestalker
Inactive Moderator
ღ The Untitled
Just here for the cosplay
Staff Mini-Profile Theme: Mousestalker
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
Posts: 12,116 Likes: 30,349
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Post by Iakus on Aug 16, 2020 4:24:46 GMT
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Post by KaiserShep on Aug 17, 2020 1:05:52 GMT
It’s really incredible. The level of ineptitude at work is really astounding, and the more I digest this high octane swill, the more hatred I manage to muster for it. It jiggers the imagination that so much competence can be encouraged to serve such immense incompetence.
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Post by masterwarderz on Aug 17, 2020 11:19:16 GMT
It’s really incredible. The level of ineptitude at work is really astounding, and the more I digest this high octane swill, the more hatred I manage to muster for it. It jiggers the imagination that so much competence can be encouraged to serve such immense incompetence. Well the new trilogy really couldn't actually be anything but what it ended up being once you realize they tossed the EU into the garbage for the sake of telling their own stories and hired a buncha people that have no stories to tell
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Post by therevanchist25 on Aug 17, 2020 16:50:07 GMT
Disney Star Wars utterly broke my spirit. I no longer care about SW at all. Also Mandalorian did nothing to correct that, since I found that show to be the most overrated show I've ever seen. Note I didn't say it's bad, it's just stupendously overrated. To me it was a bog standard cliche Western show with a thin veneer of star wars paint over it, and that is not something that interests me from Star Wars. I guess SW died for me at the end of CW Season 7.
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Post by KaiserShep on Aug 17, 2020 19:45:24 GMT
It’s really incredible. The level of ineptitude at work is really astounding, and the more I digest this high octane swill, the more hatred I manage to muster for it. It jiggers the imagination that so much competence can be encouraged to serve such immense incompetence. Well the new trilogy really couldn't actually be anything but what it ended up being once you realize they tossed the EU into the garbage for the sake of telling their own stories and hired a buncha people that have no stories to tell I don't really believe that one necessarily dictates what happens to the other. As a business decision, I can see why the EU would be disregarded to grant certain liberties to the filmmakers, but that doesn't really determine whether or not the films themselves would be good or bad. The people they got in charge of Star Wars are simply not particularly good filmmakers in general,, not just people who misunderstand or simply dislike the franchise. Their Marvel franchise would do the same thing, only taking elements from the comics, but not adapting its content verbatim. As one who never really read any of the the EU books, I don't really care one way or the other what they do with those, but as films in and of themselves, what they created is simply dreck. Star Wars or no, the stories they crafted are garbage by just about any metric, casting aside even things they actually maintain as canon, such as the original films.
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Post by mybudgee on Aug 17, 2020 22:28:48 GMT
Disney Star Wars utterly broke my spirit. I no longer care about SW at all. Also Mandalorian did nothing to correct that, since I found that show to be the most overrated show I've ever seen. Note I didn't say it's bad, it's just stupendously overrated. To me it was a bog standard cliche Western show with a thin veneer of star wars paint over it...
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Post by Hier0phant on Aug 18, 2020 2:04:34 GMT
Disney Star Wars utterly broke my spirit. I no longer care about SW at all. Also Mandalorian did nothing to correct that, since I found that show to be the most overrated show I've ever seen. Note I didn't say it's bad, it's just stupendously overrated. To me it was a bog standard cliche Western show with a thin veneer of star wars paint over it... My criticism against The Mandalorian might not be brutally straightforward like Revanchist's but the additions of baby Yoda, Doctor Aphra, and Ezra don't make up for the loss of characters like Nomi Sunrider, and Zayne Carrick. Disney traded in this... For this...
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Post by KaiserShep on Aug 18, 2020 2:39:44 GMT
The Mandalorian’s OK, but it mostly gets away from the pitfalls of the main episodes by being very conservative and safe, but at the same time doesn’t do anything particularly meaningful with it either. The whole jumping from one small outpost to another and crossing a lot of desert only works for so long. The next season needs to expand this universe and actually do something interesting. The novelty of Baby Yoda can’t support it forever. The fact that it’s so small in scope makes it that much less effective against the tide of trash from the cinematic releases.
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Post by therevanchist25 on Aug 18, 2020 10:49:29 GMT
Disney Star Wars utterly broke my spirit. I no longer care about SW at all. Also Mandalorian did nothing to correct that, since I found that show to be the most overrated show I've ever seen. Note I didn't say it's bad, it's just stupendously overrated. To me it was a bog standard cliche Western show with a thin veneer of star wars paint over it... Yes, I said it. Deal with it. "not being complete ass" is not worthy of praise, and that is the pitfall SW fans have fallen into when it comes to Mandalorian. Placing a boring, mediocre show whose primary selling point is "OMGZ LOOK AT OUR OBVIOUS NEW PLUSHY TOY!" upon a pedestal of amazingness, simply because it isn't complete trash.
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Post by rewindbutton on Aug 18, 2020 11:25:01 GMT
It’s really incredible. The level of ineptitude at work is really astounding, and the more I digest this high octane swill, the more hatred I manage to muster for it. It jiggers the imagination that so much competence can be encouraged to serve such immense incompetence. This is exactly what irks me. They used so much money and talent and achieved absolutely nothing.
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Post by rewindbutton on Aug 18, 2020 11:28:41 GMT
It’s really incredible. [snip] Well the new trilogy really couldn't actually be anything but what it ended up being once you realize they tossed the EU into the garbage for the sake of telling their own stories and hired a buncha people that have no stories to tell And this as well. I could see the reasoning in ditching the EU at the time. But since they had nothing to replace it with, they would've been better off with the EU.
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Post by rewindbutton on Aug 18, 2020 11:33:15 GMT
Disney Star Wars utterly broke my spirit. I no longer care about SW at all. Also Mandalorian did nothing to correct that, since I found that show to be the most overrated show I've ever seen. Note I didn't say it's bad, it's just stupendously overrated. To me it was a bog standard cliche Western show with a thin veneer of star wars paint over it, and that is not something that interests me from Star Wars. I guess SW died for me at the end of CW Season 7. Strong stuff that I mostly agree with. Except that it is the "bog standard cliche Western show" -part in The Mandalorian that I like. IMHO Star Wars is a western.
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Post by therevanchist25 on Aug 18, 2020 12:45:29 GMT
Disney Star Wars utterly broke my spirit. I no longer care about SW at all. Also Mandalorian did nothing to correct that, since I found that show to be the most overrated show I've ever seen. Note I didn't say it's bad, it's just stupendously overrated. To me it was a bog standard cliche Western show with a thin veneer of star wars paint over it, and that is not something that interests me from Star Wars. I guess SW died for me at the end of CW Season 7. Strong stuff that I mostly agree with. Except that it is the "bog standard cliche Western show" -part in The Mandalorian that I like. IMHO Star Wars is a western. I'm sorry, which western movie has dog fighting in space orbit? or giant capital ships exchanging broadsides? Which western movie has Samurai monks with plasma swords? Which western movie has long stretches of time discussing bureaucracy and trade deals? I've never understood this belief that Star Wars is a western, just because the first movie opens on a desert planet, and the series borrows a few motifs now and then.
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N7
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 20,887 Likes: 49,356
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Dec 21, 2018 17:35:11 GMT
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Iakus
20,887
August 2016
iakus
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Iakus on Aug 18, 2020 13:29:58 GMT
The Mandalorian’s OK, but it mostly gets away from the pitfalls of the main episodes by being very conservative and safe, but at the same time doesn’t do anything particularly meaningful with it either. The whole jumping from one small outpost to another and crossing a lot of desert only works for so long. The next season needs to expand this universe and actually do something interesting. The novelty of Baby Yoda can’t support it forever. The fact that it’s so small in scope makes it that much less effective against the tide of trash from the cinematic releases. The best thing about The Mandalorian (so far) is that it could plausibly fit into the EU as well as Disney Wars.
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Another Crazy Finn
11505
0
4,500
rewindbutton
2,439
May 2020
rewindbutton
Dragon Age: Origins, KOTOR
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Post by rewindbutton on Aug 18, 2020 17:06:09 GMT
Strong stuff that I mostly agree with. [snip] I'm sorry, which western movie has dog fighting in space orbit? or giant capital ships exchanging broadsides? Which western movie has Samurai monks with plasma swords? Which western movie has long stretches of time discussing bureaucracy and trade deals? I've never understood this belief that Star Wars is a western, just because the first movie opens on a desert planet, and the series borrows a few motifs now and then. Yeah, I guess we could engage in debate about what SW is and isn't. Or we could just watch this:
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8,457
Hier0phant
3,822
August 2016
hier0phant
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Post by Hier0phant on Aug 18, 2020 18:10:52 GMT
Lucas's SW had many influences like Flash Gordon, Wizard of Oz, and Moebius, but his biggest inspirations were from the works of directors, writers and artists who were inspired by or who greatly influenced the western genre like Sergio Leone, John Ford, Jean Giraurd and Akira Kurosawa. The Mandalorian's iconography is a homage to that aspect of classic SW thematic elements.
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2,875
therevanchist25
1,741
Mar 15, 2017 23:07:06 GMT
March 2017
therevanchist25
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem
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Post by therevanchist25 on Aug 18, 2020 18:52:28 GMT
I'm sorry, which western movie has dog fighting in space orbit? or giant capital ships exchanging broadsides? Which western movie has Samurai monks with plasma swords? Which western movie has long stretches of time discussing bureaucracy and trade deals? I've never understood this belief that Star Wars is a western, just because the first movie opens on a desert planet, and the series borrows a few motifs now and then. Yeah, I guess we could engage in debate about what SW is and isn't. Or we could just watch this:
Nice cherry picking of content. I can do that too. cutting a video of desert shots together to a western song does not make Star Wars a western.
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