NeverlandHunter
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Post by NeverlandHunter on Dec 3, 2016 18:39:08 GMT
I was wandering the recommendation list of YouTube when I came across this little gem. A video that gives an in depth look on what Skyhold does right and what isn't quite realistic about it. It's an almost 20 minute long video, but I found it very interesting. Shadiversity does other videos along similar lines (including an analysis on Kaer Morhen from the Witcher 3 and Whiterun's defenses from Skyrim). Thoughts?
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lynroy
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Post by lynroy on Dec 3, 2016 18:42:23 GMT
Too long; didn't watch (that's mostly just a joke, I did watch the first three minutes before I was looking for bullet points so I didn't have to watch the rest)
I personally care nothing for how 'realistic' or close to real life something in a game is. If it's believable, that's all that matters to me.
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NeverlandHunter
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Post by NeverlandHunter on Dec 3, 2016 19:07:02 GMT
Too long; didn't watch (that's mostly just a joke, I did watch the first three minutes before I was looking for bullet points so I didn't have to watch the rest) I personally care nothing for how 'realistic' or close to real life something in a game is. If it's believable, that's all that matters to me. Haha, aren't you contradicting yourself? To come across as believable you must be comparing it to something from real life, right? To be fair to the creator, I think he made the video because it's something he's passionate about (castles and medieval times) and not because he wanted to judge it hard. He does judge it, of course, and he admits to nitpicking, but it's all coming from a fun place. In the video he acknowledges that the castle was designed to be simplistic for players (so that we don't get lost, though that never seemed to help me much) and to be open (even though that's a waste of space) for our benefit. I found the video so fascinating because I didn't put much thought into how much the thought the developers put into minuscule details of Skyhold before. They are some minor things that take away from the realism, but the amount of research and effort that went into the place is really spectacular. Plus, I like history, so the video was engaging for me in that way, too.
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Post by ellehaym on Dec 3, 2016 19:20:45 GMT
It was an interesting video and it was nice to see that such castles/ fortresses are possible to make IRL.
That said, with mages and enchanted weaponry being available in the world of Thedas, some of the strategical inaccuracies (?) are moot
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NeverlandHunter
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Post by NeverlandHunter on Dec 3, 2016 19:27:11 GMT
It was an interesting video and it was nice to see that such castles/ fortresses are possible to make IRL. That said, with mages and enchanted weaponry being available in the world of Thedas, some of the strategical inaccuracies (?) are moot I was thinking the same thing When he brought up the kill floor possibly not being able to hold the weight of everyday castle going-ons, I was like "MAGIC!" and the diamond shaped holes at the bottom of the merlons... they're there for magic users! The top of the towers jutting out and the waste of space can't really be explained away with magic though
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lynroy
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Post by lynroy on Dec 3, 2016 19:27:15 GMT
Too long; didn't watch (that's mostly just a joke, I did watch the first three minutes before I was looking for bullet points so I didn't have to watch the rest) I personally care nothing for how 'realistic' or close to real life something in a game is. If it's believable, that's all that matters to me. Haha, aren't you contradicting yourself? To come across as believable you must be comparing it to something from real life, right? No. You can believe something without it being part of real life. I can't compare magic to real life because we don't have magic, but it's still believable in most settings it exists in. Does it make sense as it is presented in game? Check box yes or no. I was not judging the content creator, I never made any comments directed at him. I am sure he is very passionate about the subject and seems to have a lot of knowledge about it.
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Heimdall
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Post by Heimdall on Dec 3, 2016 19:44:00 GMT
I discovered this guy's videos last week and was just thinking about about posting this one on the forum this morning funnily enough, lol
I watched his other interesting (and fun) videos about other game castles too, like the Witcher 3's Kaer Moren and Whiterun from Skyrim. I also watched his Game of Thrones video..
He does nitpick, as he admits, but he does praise them when they do something right.
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NeverlandHunter
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Post by NeverlandHunter on Dec 3, 2016 19:44:48 GMT
Haha, aren't you contradicting yourself? To come across as believable you must be comparing it to something from real life, right? No. You can believe something without it being part of real life. I can't compare magic to real life because we don't have magic, but it's still believable in most settings it exists in. Does it make sense as it is presented in game? Check box yes or no. Yes, but the standard you have for magic, and fantasy in general, comes from real life, doesn't it? Elves are pointy eared humans, mages use staffs to use magic, dwarves are short humans that live underground, potions can heal you, etc. I would say we accept these less than realistic rules so easily because they're not new to us. Even if you haven't read any Tolkien, you've experienced his cultural impact and same goes with various myths from around the world. Real life influence is effecting your suspension of disbelief. If you had nothing to compare magic to at all, would you still find it so believable? *strokes imaginary white beard in thought* Buuut, I knew what you were getting at from the beginning and am just being contrary. Do ignore me, and if you have the time later, I'd definitely recommend you watch the entirety of the video.
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lynroy
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Post by lynroy on Dec 3, 2016 19:52:57 GMT
I, personally, don't have any standards for fantasy or magic.
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Post by Nightscrawl on Dec 4, 2016 10:01:15 GMT
I didn't watch the video. Perhaps later. However, most of the things that bother me about Skyhold are things that most players don't see, mainly those revealed by exploring with a camera mod. For example, there is no physical pathway to go from the great hall to the Inquisitor's quarters; it does not exist, the developers did not make one. I don't mind the instantaneous travel by clicking on the door*, and I DO understand how pointless it would be to build and spend resources (both dev resources and PC resources) on something the player doesn't see -- I totally get that -- but it still does irk me a bit. There are other small things like there not being apparent places for all of our Inner Circle and advisors to sleep, as well as for most of the castle staff. The bulk of the Inquisition forces are in the valley below, which is fine, but the keep itself doesn't have the space to house the staff or the various dignitaries that are said to visit. Another thing are some of the construction projects that remain unfinished by the end of the game. I would have liked to see a fully repaired Skyhold in post-game play, or even in the final act before heading out to meet Corypheus. As for how realistic it is, for me it's "close enough." I don't have a care beyond that. Skyhold looks cool. It took me most of my first play to learn to navigate without fast travel, but now I run the long way everywhere for immersion and it really adds to the experience for me; I quite enjoy it. That's all I need, really. * I've mapped it out, and a real pathway would be so long and tedious that it would likely dissuade 98% of players from going to their quarters on a regular basis. pic 1, pic 2, pic 3.
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Post by Kantr on Dec 4, 2016 13:33:27 GMT
I didn't watch the video. Perhaps later. However, most of the things that bother me about Skyhold are things that most players don't see, mainly those revealed by exploring with a camera mod. For example, there is no physical pathway to go from the great hall to the Inquisitor's quarters; it does not exist, the developers did not make one. I don't mind the instantaneous travel by clicking on the door*, and I DO understand how pointless it would be to build and spend resources (both dev resources and PC resources) on something the player doesn't see -- I totally get that -- but it still does irk me a bit. There are other small things like there not being apparent places for all of our Inner Circle and advisors to sleep, as well as for most of the castle staff. The bulk of the Inquisition forces are in the valley below, which is fine, but the keep itself doesn't have the space to house the staff or the various dignitaries that are said to visit. Another thing are some of the construction projects that remain unfinished by the end of the game. I would have liked to see a fully repaired Skyhold in post-game play, or even in the final act before heading out to meet Corypheus. As for how realistic it is, for me it's "close enough." I don't have a care beyond that. Skyhold looks cool. It took me most of my first play to learn to navigate without fast travel, but now I run the long way everywhere for immersion and it really adds to the experience for me; I quite enjoy it. That's all I need, really. * I've mapped it out, and a real pathway would be so long and tedious that it would likely dissuade 98% of players from going to their quarters on a regular basis. pic 1, pic 2, pic 3. It would have been nice if there was more to skyhold (secrets and rooms) and it was seamless instead of a mixture of closed and open areas.
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Post by secretrare on Dec 4, 2016 15:13:52 GMT
I Watched the video. Skyhold is done half-right,many things are there just for how they look rather than for being functional.
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Post by gervaise21 on Dec 4, 2016 17:06:23 GMT
I found the video interesting. Some of the things that were lacking, like stairs/doorway to the gatehouse overlook, were probably just due to lack of time/resources. It is only worth investing effort if something is ever going to be used. If the castle had been intended to suffer an attack then they would likely have dealt with it. I think the grill/floor is more likely where instead of dropping people down they could start a fire beneath them whilst they are trapped by the second portcullis (pretty nasty really).
What was funny is that the reviewer never mentioned about the fact that you cannot actually reach Skyhold unless the tower at the far end of the bridge is some sort of lift mechanism, which would render all the other defences rather superfluous since you merely have to block/jamb the lift and there would be no way up.
To be honest, historical accuracy was not a big deal for me, since it doesn't take place in our world, and considering it was originally an elf castle built with and to defend against magic, there might be any number of reasons why design features are a little different from conventional ones in our world. The big disappointment for me was that Skyhold never played an important role in the fight against Corypheus except as an aesthetic base of operations. All those upgrades were simply cosmetic and the castle was still half finished, with holes in the roof and walls, at the end of the game. First run, I was convinced that it was going to be like ME2, where if you omit to do the tedious resource hunting that allow you to upgrade your base, then there are consequences down the line. Mind you, it is possible that was originally the intention and then it was cut due to lack of time, etc.
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Post by phoray on Dec 4, 2016 17:19:09 GMT
I think lynroy may be referring to a "suspension of disbelief". Is it real enough to get my mind to accept it, kind of thing. It was real enough for me. I echo someone else about the complaint of where everyone is sleeping. At least in Haven, a lot of the multiples of houses had multiples of cots shoved in- maybe not quite enough, but there was enough to imply people were cramming together. Then Skyhold is this huge place that is just so much wasted and other than Sera. Cullen. And Blackwall.... Ya, that's it, don't know were anyone else sleeps.
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House Targaryen
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Post by House Targaryen on Dec 4, 2016 19:01:12 GMT
I do my best to ignore the unrealism mistakes of Skyhold. Which is hard for me because I'm the type who pays attention to detail no matter how nitpicky it is.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 4, 2016 19:06:37 GMT
I really love Skyhold I think its really pretty Genuine question: In Dragon Age you can apply runes to weapons and armor so could you do the same thing to castle walls and siege weapons??? Like having castle walls which burn everyone who touches it in specific parts could be an advantage
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Post by Nightscrawl on Dec 4, 2016 19:21:52 GMT
I think lynroy may be referring to a "suspension of disbelief". Is it real enough to get my mind to accept it, kind of thing. It was real enough for me. I echo someone else about the complaint of where everyone is sleeping. At least in Haven, a lot of the multiples of houses had multiples of cots shoved in- maybe not quite enough, but there was enough to imply people were cramming together. Then Skyhold is this huge place that is just so much wasted and other than Sera. Cullen. And Blackwall.... Ya, that's it, don't know were anyone else sleeps. Leliana - unknown Josephine - unknown Cullen - in the loft above his office Cassandra - on a cot above the blacksmith Blackwall - barn hay loft Iron Bull - in a room on the battlements before the entrance to The Herald's Rest, unknown where the rest of the Chargers sleep Dorian - unknown Solas - unknown, but speculated that he sleeps on the sofa in the gallery Vivienne - on the chaise longue in her area Cole - doesn't sleep (or eat) at all Varric - unknown Sera - in her room in The Herald's Rest
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NeverlandHunter
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Post by NeverlandHunter on Dec 4, 2016 20:49:29 GMT
I didn't watch the video. Perhaps later. However, most of the things that bother me about Skyhold are things that most players don't see, mainly those revealed by exploring with a camera mod. For example, there is no physical pathway to go from the great hall to the Inquisitor's quarters; it does not exist, the developers did not make one. I don't mind the instantaneous travel by clicking on the door*, and I DO understand how pointless it would be to build and spend resources (both dev resources and PC resources) on something the player doesn't see -- I totally get that -- but it still does irk me a bit. There are other small things like there not being apparent places for all of our Inner Circle and advisors to sleep, as well as for most of the castle staff. The bulk of the Inquisition forces are in the valley below, which is fine, but the keep itself doesn't have the space to house the staff or the various dignitaries that are said to visit. Another thing are some of the construction projects that remain unfinished by the end of the game. I would have liked to see a fully repaired Skyhold in post-game play, or even in the final act before heading out to meet Corypheus. As for how realistic it is, for me it's "close enough." I don't have a care beyond that. Skyhold looks cool. It took me most of my first play to learn to navigate without fast travel, but now I run the long way everywhere for immersion and it really adds to the experience for me; I quite enjoy it. That's all I need, really. * I've mapped it out, and a real pathway would be so long and tedious that it would likely dissuade 98% of players from going to their quarters on a regular basis. pic 1, pic 2, pic 3. *Inquisitor looks at the trek that will have to be made to get to her quarters* *Decides the in front of the fireplace is rather cozy* The wasted space in the Inquisitor's tower kind of bothered me. How nice would a sitting room have been in that empty space as you walk up the stairs? Then you could have received guests there instead of having them in your bedroom. I found the video interesting. Some of the things that were lacking, like stairs/doorway to the gatehouse overlook, were probably just due to lack of time/resources. It is only worth investing effort if something is ever going to be used. If the castle had been intended to suffer an attack then they would likely have dealt with it. I think the grill/floor is more likely where instead of dropping people down they could start a fire beneath them whilst they are trapped by the second portcullis (pretty nasty really). What was funny is that the reviewer never mentioned about the fact that you cannot actually reach Skyhold unless the tower at the far end of the bridge is some sort of lift mechanism, which would render all the other defences rather superfluous since you merely have to block/jamb the lift and there would be no way up. To be honest, historical accuracy was not a big deal for me, since it doesn't take place in our world, and considering it was originally an elf castle built with and to defend against magic, there might be any number of reasons why design features are a little different from conventional ones in our world. The big disappointment for me was that Skyhold never played an important role in the fight against Corypheus except as an aesthetic base of operations. All those upgrades were simply cosmetic and the castle was still half finished, with holes in the roof and walls, at the end of the game. First run, I was convinced that it was going to be like ME2, where if you omit to do the tedious resource hunting that allow you to upgrade your base, then there are consequences down the line. Mind you, it is possible that was originally the intention and then it was cut due to lack of time, etc. Ugh, I'd hate to have to try to take Skyhold by force. I do agree that it seemed like an incredible missed opportunity that its strength was never tested in game. I think lynroy may be referring to a "suspension of disbelief". Is it real enough to get my mind to accept it, kind of thing. It was real enough for me. I echo someone else about the complaint of where everyone is sleeping. At least in Haven, a lot of the multiples of houses had multiples of cots shoved in- maybe not quite enough, but there was enough to imply people were cramming together. Then Skyhold is this huge place that is just so much wasted and other than Sera. Cullen. And Blackwall.... Ya, that's it, don't know were anyone else sleeps. Leliana - unknown Josephine - unknown Cullen - in the loft above his office Cassandra - on a cot above the blacksmith Blackwall - barn hay loft Iron Bull - in a room on the battlements before the entrance to The Herald's Rest, unknown where the rest of the Chargers sleep Dorian - unknown Solas - unknown, but speculated that he sleeps on the sofa in the gallery Vivienne - on the chaise longue in her area Cole - doesn't sleep (or eat) at all Varric - unknown Sera - in her room in The Herald's Rest From some companion banter, I don't even think that is her designated sleeping area. She seems to have been given quarters, but made herself a hangout in the blacksmith's building anyway (because I bet that place is quiet). Cole: Your uncle misses you, Cassandra. Cassandra: Picked that up from my head, did you? Cole: No, he wrote you a letter. There was pain on the page. Cassandra: Stop going into my quarters. How many times must I tell you? And this one mentions a bed: Sera: Ask that thing. It... touches everything. Cassandra: Cole didn't take it. Sera: Right, which one? Cassandra: The one with all the illustrations. Sera: Oh, that one was full on. I threw it under your bed. Cassandra: You don't know how to ask permission first? Sera: Fine. Please can I not find more of your mucky little books? Drawings, ew. She is royalty and having been the Right Hand of the Divine and a founding member of the Inquisition is pretty major too, so it would make sense that she had a nicer area than the floor on top of the blacksmith's workplace. I like how you separated everyone by class I usually do that to remember everyone too.
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Post by gervaise21 on Dec 4, 2016 21:00:29 GMT
Yet I got the impression that the blacksmith's loft was the place where Cassandra hung out. We even went there for our romantic assignations after our night out under the stars. I did feel that for someone who was really into romance, the blacksmith's loft left a lot to be desired. So if she had another bedroom then she kept it well hidden from the Inquisitor.
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Post by Nightscrawl on Dec 4, 2016 22:59:46 GMT
There is a bed there, on the upper levels, and that is also where you find the templar book for that quest. So I'm still going with that place as her quarters.
As far as Cassandra's nobility is concerned, she shows no interest in that whatsoever and never makes any sort of comments about luxury items, like Dorian or Vivienne, or even Josephine in one dialogue. I don't have any reason to believe she would be unsatisfied with sleeping in that location.
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Post by NeverlandHunter on Dec 5, 2016 0:55:27 GMT
There is a bed there, on the upper levels, and that is also where you find the templar book for that quest. So I'm still going with that place as her quarters. As far as Cassandra's nobility is concerned, she shows no interest in that whatsoever and never makes any sort of comments about luxury items, like Dorian or Vivienne, or even Josephine in one dialogue. I don't have any reason to believe she would be unsatisfied with sleeping in that location. It's not propped up though is it? I always got the mental image of Sera just flinging the book under Cassandra's bed And I do think she sleeps there and chose that location, but I imagine that it's because she doesn't want to be located in the same sleeping area that the visiting dignitaries and upper class scions would be. I guess it's not too much of a stretch to call that little area her quarters, but I can't believe she wouldn't have been offered more suitable quarters.
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Post by Nightscrawl on Dec 5, 2016 2:02:20 GMT
I'm not talking about the banter book, but the templar book from the templar spec quest. I would assume that banter is referring to one of Cassandra's steamy books.
At any rate, people can have their own headcanon for whatever. That is what the game tells me, so that is what I believe.
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Post by dragontartare on Dec 5, 2016 3:31:25 GMT
I watched this video when it was linked in a different thread. I enjoyed it (as well as the one about Whiterun and Kaer Morhen). It's clear that he analyzed this for fun, because he loves castles and loves video games. He didn't do it to be a buzzkill or to convince anyone that these games are bad because the castles aren't "realistic."
Also, I think learning is fun, period. I liked this video for the same reason I love watching videos/reading articles that analyze the physics of sci-fi movies.
As far as the missing bedrooms and wasted space, I always just figured we are supposed to use our imaginations and pretend that those towers contain plenty of bedrooms for everyone living at Skyhold.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2016 21:34:12 GMT
Interesting video. I like that Shad points out some stuff about Skyhold (ie. the arrow holes, protruding battlements and the use of the trap doors at the gates). Didn't know about that until now. I love the overall look of Skyhold and yeah, it was made to be user friendly. But I would've liked to have seen more stuff developed, such as fixing a few of the guest rooms and the rest of the Inquisitor's private tower suite. I also had the idea of hidden passageways within the castle. Imagine your wardrobe doors leading to a secret armoury or arcane room.
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Post by phoray on Dec 5, 2016 21:57:08 GMT
I have been firmly attached to the idea of that cobwebby library actually being used by Alexius as his laboratory. Instead, he helps the inquistion invisibly.
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