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Post by The Elder King on Jan 23, 2017 9:19:07 GMT
The control of squadmates appears to be definitely more limited, since they stated we can't actually choose which power they'll use and on who, but only (so far) a generic order to use their powers. They want to explain it later. I do wonder if they're still setting up certain features, since they said on twitter yesterday they can't answer at the question of squadmates having/crafting armours.
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Post by Abramsrunner on Jan 23, 2017 9:34:19 GMT
I can't remember the last time I ordered a teammate around outside of ME1. But why would I, when I have Garrus?
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Post by The Elder King on Jan 23, 2017 10:09:35 GMT
I can't remember the last time I ordered a teammate around outside of ME1. But why would I, when I have Garrus?
That's valid only in ME3 though, and not in vanilla either While his various bonuses on weapon damage certainly are determinant, I think a lot of that merit is based on the Typhoon, that matches well with him. Miranda in ME2, putting aside the squad bonuses, was one of the best squadmates to use because of her powers, that let you easily strip down all types of defenses.
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Post by ProbeAway on Jan 23, 2017 10:36:02 GMT
I agree that we shouldn't jump the gun here and I expect we'll have some mechanic for issuing orders to squadmates. However, the apparent lack of a power wheel or tactical pause is a fair indication that we'll have significantly less precision in that respect, particularly If all orders are issued in real time. In the Trilogy you could pause and tell squadmates to go to specific spots or use particular powers on designated enemies. It's hard to see us having that degree of control given what we currently know. You didn't need to pause in the trilogy to do that; directing them where to go on the dpad was more than enough and you could order them to attack a specific enemy by moving the reticle over them and hitting the dpad still. You didn't need to pause, but it was far easier and offered more precision. It was also the only way to direct them to use an ability other than the one which was hot-keyed.
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Post by ProbeAway on Jan 23, 2017 10:38:58 GMT
I can't remember the last time I ordered a teammate around outside of ME1. But why would I, when I have Garrus?
I did it all the time in ME3 because it was a great way to set up combos. Less so in ME2.
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Post by Cypher on Jan 23, 2017 10:46:16 GMT
What makes you think we can't control companions? ... It was confirmed by a dev IIRC. If you couldn't direct them, there'd be no point in bringing them along and there'd be no point in having a party in the first place. You didn't need to pause in the trilogy to do that; directing them where to go on the dpad was more than enough and you could order them to attack a specific enemy by moving the reticle over them and hitting the dpad still. You didn't need to pause, but it was far easier and offered more precision. It was also the only way to direct them to use an ability other than the one which was hot-keyed. Then pause with the weapon wheel and utilize your precision there.
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Post by The Elder King on Jan 23, 2017 10:58:59 GMT
They already said you can't aim an shoot or use powers in the weapons wheel.
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Post by Cypher on Jan 23, 2017 11:04:06 GMT
If you couldn't direct them, there'd be no point in bringing them along and there'd be no point in having a party in the first place. It certainly lessens their usefulness but at least you have more targets for the enemy to fire upon and to hopefully provide some additional firepower. Doesn't matter if there's more targets or not; if you can't direct them to take cover or attack specific enemies, then there's literally no reason for them to be on screen.
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Post by The Elder King on Jan 23, 2017 11:59:19 GMT
Cover is supposed to still be an option we can use for direct our squadmates, as far as I tell.
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Post by ProbeAway on Jan 23, 2017 12:45:02 GMT
It was confirmed by a dev IIRC. If you couldn't direct them, there'd be no point in bringing them along and there'd be no point in having a party in the first place. You didn't need to pause, but it was far easier and offered more precision. It was also the only way to direct them to use an ability other than the one which was hot-keyed. Then pause with the weapon wheel and utilize your precision there. Lol if you go back and look at the weapon wheel in the Dec 1 trailer you'll see that it isn't going to be particularly useful for anything but selecting weapons and ammo. It's basically opaque. Plus you obviously won't be able to use it to direct your squadmates' powers. I'm all for keeping an open mind but it's clear that we won't have the same level of control as before, even if they've still put together a solid system.
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Post by lgp22 on Jan 23, 2017 19:20:51 GMT
We do know that each profile has its own particular skill that comes with it. The CES trailer showed that the profile skill for Engineer is combat drone, while for Soldier it's marksman's focus. What we don't know is whether these skills are active or passive. It also seems likely that the profile skills for Vanguard and Infiltrator are not charge and tactical cloak, because these skills can be selected in the three-skill loadout. I think the same is true of singularity because we saw a skill icon that looked like it on Dec 1. No idea about tech shield. Maybe it's a bit of both? For instance, If I'm using the adept "profile", I can unlock as a "slotted" power "charge", and viceversa. Again, I'm just speculating here, but it would make somehow sense: with a classless system, I think signature powers should be cross available. So maybe what we saw in the combat trailer was an adept profile or a sentinel with charge as a slotted power... I'm basing this theory heavily on the pic with a eng Ryder (I suppose) with a drone active even when it isn't a slotted power (at least, seems so). It appears only for a split second at 4:19 The drone is a slotted power. At 3:52 you can see the player pressing R2 to summon the drone & the power turns green. At 4:19 the same drone looking icon is now in the middle (L2+R2) & is again green.
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Post by sgtreed24 on Jan 23, 2017 19:44:15 GMT
Just to add my voice to this... 3 seems almost enough. But not quite. Obviously Soldier will be fine. Vanguard, Infiltrator will probably be fine. (Especially if we go by ME3, where by far the fastest SP character was a Vanguard spamming two powers. And Infiltrators are primarily about cloaking.) Adepts might be fine. Some loss of diversity here, though, but Singularity/Pull + Warp + Throw seems OK. Engineer and Sentinel lose their identity. The whole point of these classes was that they're power reliant, and since their individual powers are typically weaker than Adept's, they need a diverse toolkit. It's funny, but I think 4 powers would be perfectly fine. Too bad about controllers limiting design space, I guess. The controller limiting design space doesn't make sense... You have 2 triggers, 2 bumpers, 6 buttons (Including start/select), 4 directionals via dpad, and 2 sticks. Layout example with more than 3 mapped powers: LT: Aim RT: Shoot LB: Melee RB: Reload X: Power 1/4 Y: Power 2/5 B: Power 3/6 A: Cover/Roll Dpad Up: Switch Powers Dpad Left: Squad Command Dpad Right: Squad Command Dpad Down: Holster/Un-Holster Weapon LStick: Move RStick: Look/Zoom Start: Pause/Menu Select: Grenade?
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Post by spacebeetle on Jan 23, 2017 19:52:57 GMT
Maybe it's a bit of both? For instance, If I'm using the adept "profile", I can unlock as a "slotted" power "charge", and viceversa. Again, I'm just speculating here, but it would make somehow sense: with a classless system, I think signature powers should be cross available. So maybe what we saw in the combat trailer was an adept profile or a sentinel with charge as a slotted power... I'm basing this theory heavily on the pic with a eng Ryder (I suppose) with a drone active even when it isn't a slotted power (at least, seems so). It appears only for a split second at 4:19 The drone is a slotted power. At 3:52 you can see the player pressing R2 to summon the drone & the power turns green. At 4:19 the same drone looking icon is now in the middle (L2+R2) & is again green. Well, it seems we can only hope for more slots to be unlocked in game then...
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Post by ProbeAway on Jan 23, 2017 20:18:32 GMT
Maybe it's a bit of both? For instance, If I'm using the adept "profile", I can unlock as a "slotted" power "charge", and viceversa. Again, I'm just speculating here, but it would make somehow sense: with a classless system, I think signature powers should be cross available. So maybe what we saw in the combat trailer was an adept profile or a sentinel with charge as a slotted power... I'm basing this theory heavily on the pic with a eng Ryder (I suppose) with a drone active even when it isn't a slotted power (at least, seems so). It appears only for a split second at 4:19 The drone is a slotted power. At 3:52 you can see the player pressing R2 to summon the drone & the power turns green. At 4:19 the same drone looking icon is now in the middle (L2+R2) & is again green. Actually that power is assault turret, not drone. If you go to the official powers and profiles thread (should be sitting on about page 2 of this sub forum) there is a list of all powers that we have seen/are confirmed, including a few speculative ones. Lots of screenshots there.
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Post by DayusMakhina on Jan 23, 2017 20:18:38 GMT
Maybe it's a bit of both? For instance, If I'm using the adept "profile", I can unlock as a "slotted" power "charge", and viceversa. Again, I'm just speculating here, but it would make somehow sense: with a classless system, I think signature powers should be cross available. So maybe what we saw in the combat trailer was an adept profile or a sentinel with charge as a slotted power... I'm basing this theory heavily on the pic with a eng Ryder (I suppose) with a drone active even when it isn't a slotted power (at least, seems so). It appears only for a split second at 4:19 The drone is a slotted power. At 3:52 you can see the player pressing R2 to summon the drone & the power turns green. At 4:19 the same drone looking icon is now in the middle (L2+R2) & is again green. R2 at 3:52 is for an Assault Turret and not the Combat Drone. If you watch carefully it pops up at 3:54 and states 'Assault Turret". Screenshot attached to illustrate: Equally at 4:19 that same icon is now in the middle and is green, but once again it shows Assault Turret (the icon correlates too). At 4:20 you see the Combat Drone along with 3 icons, one of which are Cryo Blast, Unknown (although it shows a toxic sign so that is clearly not a Combat Drone) and Incinerate. That Combat Drone could easily be a squad mates power, but the description of the Engineer Profile on the latest video clearly states that the Engineer get's a Combat Drone, whether that's active or passive we do not know (it could be always up after all).
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Post by ProbeAway on Jan 23, 2017 20:24:56 GMT
Just to add my voice to this... 3 seems almost enough. But not quite. Obviously Soldier will be fine. Vanguard, Infiltrator will probably be fine. (Especially if we go by ME3, where by far the fastest SP character was a Vanguard spamming two powers. And Infiltrators are primarily about cloaking.) Adepts might be fine. Some loss of diversity here, though, but Singularity/Pull + Warp + Throw seems OK. Engineer and Sentinel lose their identity. The whole point of these classes was that they're power reliant, and since their individual powers are typically weaker than Adept's, they need a diverse toolkit. It's funny, but I think 4 powers would be perfectly fine. Too bad about controllers limiting design space, I guess. The controller limiting design space doesn't make sense... You have 2 triggers, 2 bumpers, 6 buttons (Including start/select), 4 directionals via dpad, and 2 sticks. Layout example with more than 3 mapped powers: LT: Aim RT: Shoot LB: Melee RB: Reload X: Power 1/4 Y: Power 2/5 B: Power 3/6 A: Cover/Roll Dpad Up: Switch Powers Dpad Left: Squad Command Dpad Right: Squad Command Dpad Down: Holster/Un-Holster Weapon LStick: Move RStick: Look/Zoom Start: Pause/Menu Select: Grenade? You'll need to figure out how to fit jump, jet pack and sprint in there but yeah, they could have come up with a controller scheme for 4+ powers if they really wanted to. This is a deliberate gameplay design choice. Having said that, it's still possible that the d-pad does something related to powers or profiles.
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Post by sgtreed24 on Jan 23, 2017 20:31:44 GMT
The controller limiting design space doesn't make sense... You have 2 triggers, 2 bumpers, 6 buttons (Including start/select), 4 directionals via dpad, and 2 sticks. Layout example with more than 3 mapped powers: LT: Aim RT: Shoot LB: Melee RB: Reload X: Power 1/4 Y: Power 2/5 B: Power 3/6 A: Cover/Roll Dpad Up: Switch Powers Dpad Left: Squad Command Dpad Right: Squad Command Dpad Down: Holster/Un-Holster Weapon LStick: Move RStick: Look/Zoom Start: Pause/Menu Select: Grenade? You'll need to figure out how to fit jump, jet pack and sprint in there but yeah, they could have come up with a controller scheme for 4+ powers if they really wanted to. This is a deliberate gameplay design choice. Having said that, it's still possible that the d-pad does something related to powers or profiles. Add Jump/Jet Pack to the A button: (I feel like they said you just hold your stick in the direction of the cover and you automatically take cover. In that case, the following is possible) Tap A ---> Jump Tap A + Direction ---> Jetpack dodge (forgot they said they are getting rid of combat roll) Hold A ---> Jet Pack Up (change direction in air with Lstick) Click and Hold LStick ---> Sprint It's kind of ridiculous to think you can only map 3 powers because of the controller. So I agree, it's definitely a conscious decision to limit the player.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 23, 2017 20:34:31 GMT
I forgot about the mini map! :/ I bring up the power wheel to view the mini-map at least as much as I bring it up to access some other function. Peripheral vision is very limited on a standard 16:9 screen, and of course if you ever use a scope, your field-of-view is narrowed even more during the time you're scoping, so you can't track other character movements during that time. Some combat zones have obstructions, and I sometimes find a squaddie on the other side of an obstruction that's in deep doo, and the mini-map alerts me to that situation so I can rescue them. Of course, it also doesn't help that adds can spawn from most anywhere in MET. I find the combat enjoyable enough, though it's not my primary reason for playing the games. My concern is not whether MEA's combat will be fun, but whether I'll be able to manage it. The only "shooters" I've ever played are MET & Fallout 3 - not because they're shooters, but because they're RPGs. I'm looking at a couple of possible approaches to see if I think the MEA combat will be tenable for me: 1) Run some rounds in Armax Arsenal Arena while keeping my finger off the power wheel button, and 2) Try some ME2 on PC to see if adapting to m/k controls could work better for me. Either way, it's pushing me to try playing in a way that I'm not accustomed to - whether that turns out to be a boom or a bust remains to be seen.
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Post by Thalandor on Jan 23, 2017 21:13:44 GMT
Personally I would not like a control scheme with a "switch powers" button. Yes it allows for more than 3 powers, but it's so easy to mess up in the heat of battle and trigger the wrong power.
If we're stuck with no more than 3 active powers at a time, I will build for 3 powers that work well togheter and the rest of my points will be in passives. Can't see myself changing powers "load out" in between fights just because some powers work a bit better against different enemies or whatever. This type of game mechanics are tedious as hell.
Bring back the power wheel please...
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Post by ProbeAway on Jan 23, 2017 21:13:53 GMT
You'll need to figure out how to fit jump, jet pack and sprint in there but yeah, they could have come up with a controller scheme for 4+ powers if they really wanted to. This is a deliberate gameplay design choice. Having said that, it's still possible that the d-pad does something related to powers or profiles. Add Jump/Jet Pack to the A button: (I feel like they said you just hold your stick in the direction of the cover and you automatically take cover. In that case, the following is possible) Tap A ---> Jump Tap A + Direction ---> Jetpack dodge (forgot they said they are getting rid of combat roll) Hold A ---> Jet Pack Up (change direction in air with Lstick) Click and Hold LStick ---> Sprint It's kind of ridiculous to think you can only map 3 powers because of the controller. So I agree, it's definitely a conscious decision to limit the player. Yep, I was thinking about this earlier and the following setup for powers might have worked as a sort of partial DAI configuration (using the PS controller layout): R1 = signature/profile power While holding L1 as a 'toggle' button: R1 = power 2 Square = power 3 Trialngle = power 4 Circle = power 5 That way square, triangle and circle would still be free for action buttons when not holding L1, plus you've still got the d-pad for squad controls and/or consumables. All a moot point now tho, I guess.
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Post by Thalandor on Jan 23, 2017 21:22:23 GMT
You guys forgot a button for "apply medi-gel"... or is that not a thing anymore?
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Post by spacebeetle on Jan 23, 2017 21:38:57 GMT
Add Jump/Jet Pack to the A button: (I feel like they said you just hold your stick in the direction of the cover and you automatically take cover. In that case, the following is possible) Tap A ---> Jump Tap A + Direction ---> Jetpack dodge (forgot they said they are getting rid of combat roll) Hold A ---> Jet Pack Up (change direction in air with Lstick) Click and Hold LStick ---> Sprint It's kind of ridiculous to think you can only map 3 powers because of the controller. So I agree, it's definitely a conscious decision to limit the player. Yep, I was thinking about this earlier and the following setup for powers might have worked as a sort of partial DAI configuration (using the PS controller layout): R1 = signature/profile power While holding L1 as a 'toggle' button: R1 = power 2 Square = power 3 Trialngle = power 4 Circle = power 5 That way square, triangle and circle would still be free for action buttons when not holding L1, plus you've still got the d-pad for squad controls and/or consumables. All a moot point now tho, I guess. Don't know about the moot. I mean, we have demonstrated multiple times in this thread why a 3 powers limits (if really confirmed) is bad for single player (in the sense that is an unnecessary limitation for players, and absurd) and many ways to circumvent it even on console. It is something and I think it will matter.
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Post by Iakus on Jan 23, 2017 21:59:09 GMT
You guys forgot a button for "apply medi-gel"... or is that not a thing anymore? STREAMLINE MOAR!!!!
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Post by ProbeAway on Jan 23, 2017 22:00:53 GMT
Yep, I was thinking about this earlier and the following setup for powers might have worked as a sort of partial DAI configuration (using the PS controller layout): R1 = signature/profile power While holding L1 as a 'toggle' button: R1 = power 2 Square = power 3 Trialngle = power 4 Circle = power 5 That way square, triangle and circle would still be free for action buttons when not holding L1, plus you've still got the d-pad for squad controls and/or consumables. All a moot point now tho, I guess. Don't know about the moot. I mean, we have demonstrated multiple times in this thread why a 3 powers limits (if really confirmed) is bad for single player (in the sense that is an unnecessary limitation for players, and absurd) and many ways to circumvent it even on console. It is something and I think it will matter. I agree, I just meant that it won't change anything for MEA. The control scheme will be finalised by now.
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Post by ProbeAway on Jan 23, 2017 22:04:09 GMT
You guys forgot a button for "apply medi-gel"... or is that not a thing anymore? I hope it's still there, even if just from a lore point of view. Then again, they did remove healing spells from DAI.
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