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Post by ProbeAway on Dec 3, 2016 22:32:06 GMT
In the original trilogy you could only have three active powers mapped at any one time, if using a controller. This wasn't really an issue because you could bring up the power wheel whenever you liked to use your other powers.
Apparently the power wheel has been scrapped in MEA so I assumed that controllers would have a similar power mapping style to DAI. ie. 4 powers + 4 more if you held down L2 (or even 3 + 3, since ME has always had less active powers than DA). However, I only ever saw three active power slots for Ryder with no real indication that you could toggle to another three power slots. Also, the powers were selected by using L2, R2 or L2 + R2, which is very different to the DAI mapping.
I know it's only early days and we just saw short snippets of combat, but this makes me think that we'll only have access to three active powers at any given time. Does this worry anyone else? Not sure how it might differ with K+M controls.
Combined with the apparent inability to direct squadmates to move and use powers, my guess is that they're deliberately trying to make the the SP feel more like MP, which would be disappointing IMO. I'm hoping for some kind of active/tactical pause function to help overcome these apparent changes.
Still pumped about everything else I've seen though.
EDIT: got the 'merge of death'...
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Post by Hrungr on Dec 3, 2016 22:59:28 GMT
AFAIK, you'll only be able to map 3 powers in MEA. Not keen on that myself either, but they have moved the Ammo upgrades from your Powers list to temp. ammo upgrades.
We know that you can pause to switch weapons and ammo upgrades, but not to aim or select squadmate powers (you can direct them to move though). But at least powers are on individual cooldowns so I'm guessing you rely mostly on self-combos.
You can respec Ryder multiple times (though I'm not sure where or if there's some limit), perhaps to encourage you to respec for different missions. Eg. I'm going on a Remnant Vault mission, so I'd better respec for Tech... We'll see.
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Post by theflyingzamboni on Dec 3, 2016 23:01:50 GMT
I wouldn't start panicking yet. That could easily be footage of low-level characters, or just characters with a few demo powers. No reason to assume they're stripping available powers down to three yet, DA:I's 8 ability limit notwithstanding. If they can map 8 on DA:I, I don't see why they wouldn't do that for ME:A. And since Mass Effect always had fewer powers overall anyway, an 8 power limit wouldn't even be the issue it was for DA:I. I don't know if I ever mapped more than 8 powers to quick keys in ME.
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Post by The Elder King on Dec 3, 2016 23:03:49 GMT
AFAIK, you'll only be able to map 3 powers in MEA. Not keen on that myself either, but they have moved the Ammo upgrades from your Powers list to temp. ammo upgrades. We know that you can pause to switch weapons and ammo upgrades, but not to aim or select squadmate powers (you can direct them to move though). But at least powers are on individual cooldowns so I'm guessing you rely mostly on self-combos. You can respec Ryder multiple times (though I'm not sure where or if there's some limit), perhaps to encourage you to respec for different missions. Eg. I'm going on a Remnant Vault mission, so I'd better respec for Tech... We'll see. The only reedeming feature for that, personally, would be controllable squadmates. Which I'm not going to bet on, though I'm interested to see what the devs meant with squadmates being 'controllable'. |
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Post by Hrungr on Dec 3, 2016 23:10:15 GMT
AFAIK, you'll only be able to map 3 powers in MEA. Not keen on that myself either, but they have moved the Ammo upgrades from your Powers list to temp. ammo upgrades. We know that you can pause to switch weapons and ammo upgrades, but not to aim or select squadmate powers (you can direct them to move though). But at least powers are on individual cooldowns so I'm guessing you rely mostly on self-combos. You can respec Ryder multiple times (though I'm not sure where or if there's some limit), perhaps to encourage you to respec for different missions. Eg. I'm going on a Remnant Vault mission, so I'd better respec for Tech... We'll see. The only reedeming feature for that, personally, would be controllable squadmates. Which I'm not going to bet on, though I'm interested to see what the devs meant with squadmates being 'controllable'.
Grenloke @grenlokeHave you guys touched on squad commands yet? Ian S. Frazier @tibermoonWe've got 'em.  The squad is generally smarter and requires less micromgmt, though--you don't order specific powers. Grenloke @grenloke Ah, so no ME3-style coordinated attacks. Focus on yourself & the squad's AI will (largely) take care of themselves? Ian S. Frazier @tibermoonThey tend to take care of themselves, yes, but coordinated attacks are still possible, using in-world cues. Ian S. Frazier @tibermoon Ex: I see Liam leap into the fray and electrify a crowd of enemies, so I biotic charge in to set off a Tech Combo! Ian S. Frazier @tibermoon Plus you start to get a feel for what the squad will do in different situations based on your orders. More info later. |
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Post by The Elder King on Dec 3, 2016 23:11:53 GMT
I wouldn't start panicking yet. That could easily be footage of low-level characters, or just characters with a few demo powers. No reason to assume they're stripping available powers down to three yet, DA:I's 8 ability limit notwithstanding. If they can map 8 on DA:I, I don't see why they wouldn't do that for ME:A. And since Mass Effect always had fewer powers overall anyway, an 8 power limit wouldn't even be the issue it was for DA:I. I don't know if I ever mapped more than 8 powers to quick keys in ME. While I agree on waiting and see, the way the powers are mapped, on L2, R2 and L2+R2 seems to indicate there won't be other slots. It'll be difficult to activate the power on the L2+R2 mapping when you have to push another button to open up the second slot of powers. |
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The Elder King
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Post by The Elder King on Dec 3, 2016 23:14:23 GMT
The only reedeming feature for that, personally, would be controllable squadmates. Which I'm not going to bet on, though I'm interested to see what the devs meant with squadmates being 'controllable'.
Grenloke @grenlokeHave you guys touched on squad commands yet? Ian S. Frazier @tibermoonWe've got 'em. The squad is generally smarter and requires less micromgmt, though--you don't order specific powers. Grenloke @grenloke Ah, so no ME3-style coordinated attacks. Focus on yourself & the squad's AI will (largely) take care of themselves? Ian S. Frazier @tibermoonThey tend to take care of themselves, yes, but coordinated attacks are still possible, using in-world cues. Ian S. Frazier @tibermoon Ex: I see Liam leap into the fray and electrify a crowd of enemies, so I biotic charge in to set off a Tech Combo! Ian S. Frazier @tibermoon Plus you start to get a feel for what the squad will do in different situations based on your orders. More info later. He replied after the Game Awards trailer with this: again, I won't get my hopes up, but I'm interested in what he meant. |
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Post by colfoley on Dec 3, 2016 23:16:09 GMT
I wouldn't start panicking yet. That could easily be footage of low-level characters, or just characters with a few demo powers. No reason to assume they're stripping available powers down to three yet, DA:I's 8 ability limit notwithstanding. If they can map 8 on DA:I, I don't see why they wouldn't do that for ME:A. And since Mass Effect always had fewer powers overall anyway, an 8 power limit wouldn't even be the issue it was for DA:I. I don't know if I ever mapped more than 8 powers to quick keys in ME. While I agree on waiting and see, the way the powers are mapped, on L2, R2 and L2+R2 seems to indicate there won't be other slots. It'll be difficult to activate the power on the L2+R2 mapping when you have to push another button to open up the second slot of powers. Either map your least used ability to the L 2 + R2 or one that is kind of your super duper ability. |
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Post by CHRrOME on Dec 3, 2016 23:19:48 GMT
Ye, I noticed that too. And while I agree that ME never was about having heaps of active powers at the same time in our "skill bar", 3 seems a bit restrictive. In DAI that tiny skill bar was what kept me out of the game for follow up playthrougs.
Granted bullshit abilities like ammunition act as consumables now it seems, but even then in ME3 we could have a character with at least 5 powers to use I think. And that provided with really interesting builds.
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Post by Hrungr on Dec 3, 2016 23:19:52 GMT
Ian did touch on that recently...
Grenloke @grenlokeHave you guys touched on squad commands yet? Ian S. Frazier @tibermoonWe've got 'em. The squad is generally smarter and requires less micromgmt, though--you don't order specific powers. Grenloke @grenloke Ah, so no ME3-style coordinated attacks. Focus on yourself & the squad's AI will (largely) take care of themselves? Ian S. Frazier @tibermoonThey tend to take care of themselves, yes, but coordinated attacks are still possible, using in-world cues. Ian S. Frazier @tibermoon Ex: I see Liam leap into the fray and electrify a crowd of enemies, so I biotic charge in to set off a Tech Combo! Ian S. Frazier @tibermoon Plus you start to get a feel for what the squad will do in different situations based on your orders. More info later. He replied after the Game Awards trailer with this: again, I won't get my hopes up, but I'm interested in what he meant. My guess is you can direct them to specific points and maybe attack specific targets. |
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Post by The Elder King on Dec 3, 2016 23:20:14 GMT
While I agree on waiting and see, the way the powers are mapped, on L2, R2 and L2+R2 seems to indicate there won't be other slots. It'll be difficult to activate the power on the L2+R2 mapping when you have to push another button to open up the second slot of powers. Either map your least used ability to the L 2 + R2 or one that is kind of your super duper ability. My point is that it seems kind of faulty design to have different slots of power, which required a button to access, and then map a power with a combo of two buttons. It might mean they decided to map only three powers. As I said, I think it's best to wait and see. I tweet Ian after the game awards but he didn't reply. |
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Post by The Elder King on Dec 3, 2016 23:21:57 GMT
Ye, I noticed that too. And while I agree that ME never was about having heaps of active powers at the same time in our "skill bar", 3 seems a bit restrictive. In DAI that tiny skill bar was what kept me out of the game for follow up playthrougs. Granted bullshit abilities like ammunition act as consumables now it seems, but even then in ME3 we could have a character with at least 5 powers to use I think. And that provided with really interesting builds. People used to Soldier in ME2-ME3 are the only ones who might not lose something with three abilities, all the others will have less powers then before if this turns out to be true. |
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Post by javeart on Dec 3, 2016 23:23:41 GMT
Personally, considering ammo powers don't count for the 3 powers active, I'm ok with 3, but because I'm ok with SP combat being more like MP. If you can respec and try different combinations, it can be fun. I feel it forces you to try new things, to set an strategy, not just acummulate powers and abilities, so that you have one that it's perfect for each case. I know I shouldn't, but I enjoy limitations  I'm very tempted to quote Mordin  As for the squad, when we're talking earlier in another thread about having an option to control squadmates, I though we may actually be able to switch, but now, I remember that when I saw those tweets mentioning "orders" I though it may be something more like being able in DAI to mark some abilitys as favourites or, to the contrary, make it impossible to use them. I know it doesn't have to be like in DAI, but everything is very much like in DAI, so... |
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Post by CHRrOME on Dec 3, 2016 23:25:12 GMT
I wouldn't start panicking yet. That could easily be footage of low-level characters, or just characters with a few demo powers. No reason to assume they're stripping available powers down to three yet, DA:I's 8 ability limit notwithstanding. I doubt it. In all the footage 3 was the maximum, and it was pretty clear that 3 slots is what the HUD had available at all times. They could've mapped 20 if they wanted. Thing is, they didn't because it was a "game mechanic" to be limited by 8 only, something I always said it was really dumb. As I've said in the last comment, I agree that ME never had that many abilities anyways, but 3 seems a little bit too restrictive for campaign honestly. |
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Post by Element Zero on Dec 3, 2016 23:25:20 GMT
Three active/mapped abilities has been the standard on console, so that's nothing new.
The right side of the old "power wheel" was greyed out, as if content was blocked. We can't say why, at this point. It could be that this build or set of characters simply didn't have the tools to fill out the wheel; or BioWare may have locked that content. We may be able to remap powers, either from the wheel or from a pause screen. I'd not think we would be able to do this during combat, though. Perhaps this is why the wheel was partially locked?
I don't think it's time to get worried. I didn't see anything to suggest the game is more limited than what we've always had. If anything, it looks far more unlimited, in terms of options.
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Post by fatherjerusalem on Dec 3, 2016 23:37:24 GMT
Well, in the video they showed at the Game Awards, there was also the "Take cover to regenerate shields" tutorial tip that popped up. So without any context shown, it could be that that video is from quite early on in the game, and that the reason it only showed there being three powers is because that's all that was unlocked by that point in time.
Or it could be that there are only three active powers total, because Bioware hates you, personally.
Whichever.
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Post by colfoley on Dec 3, 2016 23:43:38 GMT
Personally, considering ammo powers don't count for the 3 powers active, I'm ok with 3, but because I'm ok with SP combat being more like MP. If you can respec and try different combinations, it can be fun. I feel it forces you to try new things, to set an strategy, not just acummulate powers and abilities, so that you have one that it's perfect for each case. I know I shouldn't, but I enjoy limitations I'm very tempted to quote Mordin As for the squad, when we're talking earlier in another thread about having an option to control squadmates, I though we may actually be able to switch, but now, I remember that when I saw those tweets mentioning "orders" I though it may be something more like being able in DAI to mark some abilitys as favourites or, to the contrary, make it impossible to use them. I know it doesn't have to be like in DAI, but everything is very much like in DAI, so... On this note so far I am seeing all the things I loved from DA I, and so far at least, none of the things I was really critical of. |
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Post by The Elder King on Dec 3, 2016 23:47:13 GMT
Well, in the video they showed at the Game Awards, there was also the "Take cover to regenerate shields" tutorial tip that popped up. So without any context shown, it could be that that video is from quite early on in the game, and that the reason it only showed there being three powers is because that's all that was unlocked by that point in time. Or it could be that there are only three active powers total, because Bioware hates you, personally. Whichever. There was a level up at level 24 at one point, as well as loyalty missions, so not all scenes were early in the game. |
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Post by SofaJockey on Dec 3, 2016 23:57:15 GMT
It might not be totally elegant, but it makes no sense to have 2 'active powers' threads running. Merger inbound.
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Merge complete.  |
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Post by Wulfram on Dec 4, 2016 0:07:53 GMT
I've been expecting a reduction in the number of powers since they mentioned they were going to individual cooldowns. Its a logical consequence if they want to avoid too big "alpha strike" and not shift the emphasis too heavily to powers. The alternative would be to have very long cooldowns, but that has its own problems/
Hopefully they'll at least not make ammo powers and suchlike take up slots.
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Post by The Elder King on Dec 4, 2016 0:10:38 GMT
I've been expecting a reduction in the number of powers since they mentioned they were going to individual cooldowns. Its a logical consequence if they want to avoid too big "alpha strike" and not shift the emphasis too heavily to powers. The alternative would be to have very long cooldowns, but that has its own problems/ Hopefully they'll at least not make ammo powers and suchlike take up slots. Ammo powers don't take up slots, you have to pick which type of ammo to have on your weapon from the pause. Grenades are still powers. |
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Post by theflyingzamboni on Dec 4, 2016 0:13:41 GMT
They could've mapped 20 if they wanted. Thing is, they didn't because it was a "game mechanic" to be limited by 8 only, something I always said it was really dumb. As I've said in the last comment, I agree that ME never had that many abilities anyways, but 3 seems a little bit too restrictive for campaign honestly. They could have mapped that many, which is why it was such an issue for a game like DA:I. And I agree, 3 would be absurd for SP. Maybe "Eh, 3 powers is fine" is one of the lessons they learned from MP that they were talking about. If so that's incredibly stupid. The fun parts of MP were all the cool new powers, not the ability cap. Even without a power wheel they could have at least 4 powers. A controller has 14 buttons, not counting start, select, and combinations. That's plenty for 8 powers, as DA:I shows, if they really are determined to drop the pause and aim/power wheel. I'll go ahead and bring up the other tangential issue with dropping the pause and aim/power wheel, which is that ME:A will not be playable for some fans with certain disabilities, of which I know there were some just on BSN Prime. Not sure why they feel the need to ditch the pause/wheel instead of letting people play at their own pace. It won't be an issue for me personally (though I used to be garbage at shooting when I started playing ME and needed pause all the time for aim), but for some this will really lower their enjoyment for no apparent gain anywhere else. |
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The Elder King
N6
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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The Elder King
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theelderking
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Post by The Elder King on Dec 4, 2016 0:16:00 GMT
They could've mapped 20 if they wanted. Thing is, they didn't because it was a "game mechanic" to be limited by 8 only, something I always said it was really dumb. As I've said in the last comment, I agree that ME never had that many abilities anyways, but 3 seems a little bit too restrictive for campaign honestly. They could have mapped that many, which is why it was such an issue for a game like DA:I. And I agree, 3 would be absurd for SP. Maybe "Eh, 3 powers is fine" is one of the lessons they learned from MP that they were talking about. If so that's incredibly stupid. The fun parts of MP were all the cool new powers, not the ability cap. Even without a power wheel they could have at least 4 powers. A controller has 14 buttons, not counting start and select. That's plenty for 8 powers, as DA:I shows, if they really are determined to drop the pause and aim/power wheel. I'll go ahead and bring up the other tangential issue with that last design choice, which is that ME:A will not be playable for some fans with certain disabilities, of which I know there were some just on BSN Prime. Not sure why they feel the need to ditch the wheel instead of letting people play at their own pace. It won't be an issue for me personally (though I used to be garbage at shooting when I started playing ME and needed pause all the time for aim), but for some this will really lower their enjoyment for no apparent gain anywhere else. It's not only powers not being available on the wheel to make it unplayable for people with certain disabilities, but the lack of an aim feature on pause as well. I do hope they'll bring it back for those people, in the future. |
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theflyingzamboni
N3
Sorry, my face is tired from dealing with... everything.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
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theflyingzamboni
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
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Post by theflyingzamboni on Dec 4, 2016 0:19:27 GMT
They could have mapped that many, which is why it was such an issue for a game like DA:I. And I agree, 3 would be absurd for SP. Maybe "Eh, 3 powers is fine" is one of the lessons they learned from MP that they were talking about. If so that's incredibly stupid. The fun parts of MP were all the cool new powers, not the ability cap. Even without a power wheel they could have at least 4 powers. A controller has 14 buttons, not counting start and select. That's plenty for 8 powers, as DA:I shows, if they really are determined to drop the pause and aim/power wheel. I'll go ahead and bring up the other tangential issue with that last design choice, which is that ME:A will not be playable for some fans with certain disabilities, of which I know there were some just on BSN Prime. Not sure why they feel the need to ditch the wheel instead of letting people play at their own pace. It won't be an issue for me personally (though I used to be garbage at shooting when I started playing ME and needed pause all the time for aim), but for some this will really lower their enjoyment for no apparent gain anywhere else. It's not only powers not being available on the wheel to make it unplayable for people with certain disabilities, but the lack of an aim feature on pause as well. I do hope they'll bring it back for those people, in the future. Should have been clearer, that's actually part of what I was talking about. (Edited original post for clarity) |
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The squad is generally smarter and requires less micromgmt, though--you don't order specific powers.
I'm very tempted to quote Mordin 
