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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2017 17:01:17 GMT
The loss of pause-to-aim will make it extremely difficult to impossible for some players to continue with ME. Really, if they could allow camera movement and display a mini-map when you bring up the weapon/ammo change wheel, that functionality would still be available. I rarely use the hotkeys in DAO - always preferred the power wheel, especially since it also gave me access to follower skills. Even so, the same skills could be hotkeyed to the same keypresses for an entire playthrough. That doesn't appear to be the case with ever-changing loadouts due to profile switches. I meant on console. There are three buttons where you can use powers, and an additional one (two in DAI) 'set' pops out when you press another button. Without the latter you're limited to three powers in real time. The same, I think, will happen in Andromeda, only with profiles. I'm also referring to console controllers, and am very familiar with their operation. I can understand the miscommunication, however, since I guess 'hotkey' is typically an m/k term and I'm using it to refer to buttons on the controller. But I still tend toward using the powerwheel as much as the buttons, even in ME3 - because bringing up the powerwheel gives me access to all of Shepard's powers, all of the squadmates' powers, and also displays a mini-map showing relative locations of enemies and squadmates that I find extremely useful.
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Post by The Elder King on Feb 10, 2017 17:08:25 GMT
Yeah, but the system is more similar to before anyway, with the fact that you can't access power with radial menu/pause. But the very presence of weapon and ammo selection on pause shows they don't want to make it exactly the same. I guess the loadout of a profile being limited to 3 is the part where it gets similar, but the profile switch is peculiarity of SP. Keep in mind that Ian also said on this forum/thread that the system isnt too much different from the suggestion a user made of profiles being the same as weapon sets in DAO, where they gave you access to different abilities if you placed different ones. It shouldn't be long now until they shown it, since the long gameplay video should be up next week. There is little point in arguing about what the "reveal" might be. I am somewhat skeptical that they went to all the trouble of creating a system with access to only 3 abilities during combat (in the UI) only to later include a mechanic that changes that, it's a non-intuitive design that makes little sense to me. We'll see. First off, I don't think it's something they added later. I think they didn't explicitely showing it before because they were finalizing the system, if it turns out to be true. The system works like this in DA games though. While you can technically access all/more then 3 abilities in combat, the UI on console is still designed with only three button set on powers, and opening up different sets with another one. While I do think it's limiting on pc, I can see they followed that scheme. I do understand remaining cautious/pessimistic, but at this point I think you'll be pleasantly surprised. I meant on console. There are three buttons where you can use powers, and an additional one (two in DAI) 'set' pops out when you press another button. Without the latter you're limited to three powers in real time. The same, I think, will happen in Andromeda, only with profiles. I'm also referring to console controllers, and am very familiar with their operation. I can understand the miscommunication, however, since I guess 'hotkey' is typically an m/k term and I'm using it to refer to buttons on the controller. But I still tend toward using the powerwheel as much as the buttons, even in ME3 - largely because bringing up the powerwheel also displays a mini-map showing relative locations of enemies and squadmates that I find extremely useful. I do agree on preferring the power wheel. I just personally don't have problems remembering the sets since I used the system in real time a bit in DAO-DA2 and we were forced to in DAI.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2017 17:09:38 GMT
There is little point in arguing about what the "reveal" might be. I am somewhat skeptical that they went to all the trouble of creating a system with access to only 3 abilities during combat (in the UI) only to later include a mechanic that changes that, it's a non-intuitive design that makes little sense to me. We'll see. What's occurred to me is that it is actually the Montreal (rather than the Edmonton) team that's leading the development of MEA, right? IIRC, the Montreal team was responsible for ME3MP and also the Omega DLC (which was very heavily combat focused). Dunno whether that's the sole (or even primary) reason for the abandonment of traditional SP features in favor of MP styling, but it is food for thought.
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Post by The Elder King on Feb 10, 2017 17:13:20 GMT
There is little point in arguing about what the "reveal" might be. I am somewhat skeptical that they went to all the trouble of creating a system with access to only 3 abilities during combat (in the UI) only to later include a mechanic that changes that, it's a non-intuitive design that makes little sense to me. We'll see. What's occurred to me is that it is actually the Montreal (rather than the Edmonton) team that's leading the development of MEA, right? IIRC, the Montreal team was responsible for ME3MP and also the Omega DLC (which was very heavily combat focused). Dunno whether that's the sole (or even primary) reason for the abandonment of traditional SP features in favor of MP styling, but it is food for thought. Based on what Ian said, a reason was probably to spend less resources on developing two completely different systems. Althought to be fair it's something they started in DAI, and that was Edmonton. Even if a bit more limiting, if the profiles will be accessed directly in combat, the number of active abilities' drop will in any case lower compared to DAI.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2017 17:45:09 GMT
What's occurred to me is that it is actually the Montreal (rather than the Edmonton) team that's leading the development of MEA, right? IIRC, the Montreal team was responsible for ME3MP and also the Omega DLC (which was very heavily combat focused). Dunno whether that's the sole (or even primary) reason for the abandonment of traditional SP features in favor of MP styling, but it is food for thought. Based on what Ian said, a reason was probably to spend less resources on developing two completely different systems. Althought to be fair it's something they started in DAI, and that was Edmonton. Even if a bit more limiting, if the profiles will be accessed directly in combat, the number of active abilities' drop will in any case lower compared to DAI. Yeah, so people who prefer more tactical SP play (and don't give a fat rat's crap about MP) have to adapt to MP styled gameplay. No, not really. Even if the profiles can be swapped directly in combat, you'll still only be able to have 3-4 (presumably) active at any moment in time. And you'll have to micromanage different loadouts in the heat of battle.
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Post by The Elder King on Feb 10, 2017 18:05:00 GMT
Based on what Ian said, a reason was probably to spend less resources on developing two completely different systems. Althought to be fair it's something they started in DAI, and that was Edmonton. Even if a bit more limiting, if the profiles will be accessed directly in combat, the number of active abilities' drop will in any case lower compared to DAI. Yeah, so people who prefer more tactical SP play (and don't give a fat rat's crap about MP) have to adapt to MP styled gameplay. No, not really. Even if the profiles can be swapped directly in combat, you'll still only be able to have 3-4 (presumably) active at any moment in time. And you'll have to micromanage different loadouts in the heat of battle. How so? You can access 3 powers per profiles, it'd meant at least 6. I doubt it'll be more difficult that pushing a button to load the different set. It won't be that different then how it works on console for DA.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2017 18:32:18 GMT
Yeah, so people who prefer more tactical SP play (and don't give a fat rat's crap about MP) have to adapt to MP styled gameplay. No, not really. Even if the profiles can be swapped directly in combat, you'll still only be able to have 3-4 (presumably) active at any moment in time. And you'll have to micromanage different loadouts in the heat of battle. How so? You can access 3 powers per profiles, it'd meant at least 6. I doubt it'll be more difficult that pushing a button to load the different set. It won't be that different then how it works on console for DA. I guess I have to spell it out for you. Let's say I have profile 'A' loaded, and it includes singularity, warp, and stasis. At that moment in time, I have singularity, warp, and stasis active and available. If I want to use any power other than singularity, warp, or stasis, I have to load a different profile - and when I do load a different profile, singularity, warp, and stasis will no longer be active and available. Then I switch to profile 'B', which includes reave, pull, and throw. At that moment in time, I have reave, pull, and throw active and available. If I want to use any power other than reave, pull, or throw, I have to load a different profile - and when I do load a different profile, reave, pull, and throw will be no longer active and available. In the course of any given encounter, I may have access to 3 or 6 or 9 or 12 different powers, but I will only have 3 available at any moment in time. At no point can I simply bring up a powerwheel (and have combat pause) while I review all possible options and select something. I believe I've already covered the fact that I primarily use the powerwheel for anything beyond 3 powers. I don't care how DA powers are managed, it's an entirely different game and has auto-targeting to boot. I understand that more than one power can be mapped to the same button, but that is a feature I do not use and do not want to use. It represents a significant change in gameplay for me - as does the (presumed) missing mini-map and inability to control squadmates' power use. The other thing that has not been addressed is how cooldowns will work during profile swaps. Will the cooldown timer reset at profile change, or continue as is? If it resets, swapping profiles could be an exploit of the cooldown mechanics.
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Post by The Elder King on Feb 10, 2017 18:52:42 GMT
That is something we lost regardless of the profiles. We knew this for months. All we can hope is that the system isn't as restricted as it seemed.
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Post by Iakus on Feb 10, 2017 20:07:25 GMT
Based on what Ian said, a reason was probably to spend less resources on developing two completely different systems. Althought to be fair it's something they started in DAI, and that was Edmonton. Even if a bit more limiting, if the profiles will be accessed directly in combat, the number of active abilities' drop will in any case lower compared to DAI. And DAI's combat was pretty unfun for me. I play DAI DESPITE the "streamlining", not because of it.
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Post by The Elder King on Feb 10, 2017 20:12:37 GMT
Based on what Ian said, a reason was probably to spend less resources on developing two completely different systems. Althought to be fair it's something they started in DAI, and that was Edmonton. Even if a bit more limiting, if the profiles will be accessed directly in combat, the number of active abilities' drop will in any case lower compared to DAI. And DAI's combat was pretty unfun for me. I play DAI DESPITE the "streamlining", not because of it. While my opinion isn't as negative as yours, I didn't like that change, among others, as I'm not a big fan of the removal of using powers in MEA on pause/power wheel. I just think that if we still have access to more then 3 abilities, likely 6, the drop compared to DA in terms of active ones will be minimal and might mitigate a bit the former problems. Heck, if they went with 3 profiles and 9 abilities we'll have more then at least ME2 and ME3 (not sure on ME).
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Post by Iakus on Feb 10, 2017 20:16:22 GMT
And DAI's combat was pretty unfun for me. I play DAI DESPITE the "streamlining", not because of it. While my opinion isn't as negative as yours, I didn't like that change, among others, as I'm not a big fan of the removal of using powers in MEA on pause/power wheel. I just think that if we still have access to more then 3 abilities, likely 6, the drop compared to DA in terms of active ones will be minimal and might mitigate a bit the former problems. Heck, if they went with 3 profiles and 9 abilities we'll have more then at least ME2 and ME3 (not sure on ME). If we at least have access to six-eight abilities at once, that would put us more or less within range of the number of active abilities we had in the trilogy. My understanding is the profiles (which I hear there will be seven) are mainly passive bonuses to emphasize particular "class" abilities. YOu unlock abilities with skill points, but profiles make them...better.
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Post by The Elder King on Feb 10, 2017 20:23:48 GMT
While my opinion isn't as negative as yours, I didn't like that change, among others, as I'm not a big fan of the removal of using powers in MEA on pause/power wheel. I just think that if we still have access to more then 3 abilities, likely 6, the drop compared to DA in terms of active ones will be minimal and might mitigate a bit the former problems. Heck, if they went with 3 profiles and 9 abilities we'll have more then at least ME2 and ME3 (not sure on ME). If we at least have access to six-eight abilities at once, that would put us more or less within range of the number of active abilities we had in the trilogy. My understanding is the profiles (which I hear there will be seven) are mainly passive bonuses to emphasize particular "class" abilities. YOu unlock abilities with skill points, but profiles make them...better. They seem to be that, plus better passives with each rank (1 to 4, and your 'title' changes as well), and they unlock a power/ability, though we don't know it it's something automatic or that we can set as a power. The profiles are named from the six classes plus explorer. I do wonder how the switch will work in combat (if what they're hinting at is true). Hopefully they'll release that info soon.
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Post by Iakus on Feb 10, 2017 20:25:57 GMT
If we at least have access to six-eight abilities at once, that would put us more or less within range of the number of active abilities we had in the trilogy. My understanding is the profiles (which I hear there will be seven) are mainly passive bonuses to emphasize particular "class" abilities. YOu unlock abilities with skill points, but profiles make them...better. They seem to be that, plus better passives with each rank (1 to 4, and your 'title' changes as well), and they unlock a power/ability, though we don't know it it's something automatic or that we can set as a power. The profiles are named from the six classes plus explorer. I do wonder how the switch will work in combat (if what they're hinting at is true). Hopefully they'll release that info soon. SAM: "Assuming direct control of this form"
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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2017 20:46:14 GMT
Based on what Ian said, a reason was probably to spend less resources on developing two completely different systems. Althought to be fair it's something they started in DAI, and that was Edmonton. Even if a bit more limiting, if the profiles will be accessed directly in combat, the number of active abilities' drop will in any case lower compared to DAI. And DAI's combat was pretty unfun for me. I play DAI DESPITE the "streamlining", not because of it. DAO is still pretty much my favorite game of all time. I learned to enjoy DA2 (to a degree) in spite of some of the issues I have with it. I've played both of them dozens of times. I did one playthrough of DAI, and did not complete all of the DLC (I didn't do Descent). I started another playthrough, and quit shortly after arriving at Skyhold. As much as I've enjoyed the world of Thedas in the past, that game just feels like a mindless slog. I didn't touch DAMP, and have no intention of ever doing so. I've also played through MET quite a few times, including all of the DLC (well, except for Pinnacle Station, which is not available on PS3). MEA is sounding an awful lot like an MP, rather than SP game - and my interest in it is rapidly dwindling.
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Post by Iakus on Feb 10, 2017 20:47:48 GMT
And DAI's combat was pretty unfun for me. I play DAI DESPITE the "streamlining", not because of it. DAO is still pretty much my favorite game of all time. I learned to enjoy DA2 (to a degree) in spite of some of the issues I have with it. I've played both of them dozens of times. I did one playthrough of DAI, and did not complete all of the DLC (I didn't do Descent). I started another playthrough, and quit shortly after arriving at Skyhold. As much as I've enjoyed the world of Thedas in the past, that game just feels like a mindless slog. I didn't touch DAMP, and have no intention of ever doing so. I've also played through MET quite a few times, including all of the DLC (well, except for Pinnacle Station, which is not available on PS3). MEA is sounding an awful lot like an MP, rather than SP game - and my interest in it is rapidly dwindling. I only played DAMP long enough to get the Dragon decor for SKyhold (and to this day I think it's a douche move to hide that behind MP)
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Post by The Elder King on Feb 10, 2017 20:51:03 GMT
I find ME3 MP more fun to play then DAIMP (for the little I played it). I think because the latter is less suited to be made MP. I'll wait and see more, or play it myself, to judge MEA's SP.
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Post by colfoley on Feb 10, 2017 20:52:12 GMT
DA Is combat was by far and away the most fun I had in the series and I think it is a direct result of them streamlining the system, not tat I particularly liked them streamlining the system.
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Post by colfoley on Feb 10, 2017 21:06:10 GMT
DA Is combat was by far and away the most fun I had in the series and I think it is a direct result of them streamlining the system, not tat I particularly liked them streamlining the system. Well, which class did you play? Could be that you simply liked some of the new abilities or playstyles, I doubt that the reason for your enjoyment was specifically being unable to use more than 8 abilities. I played Archer Rogue and Mage. And in fact I did not like them limiting the abilities. As has already been discussed earlier in the thread I had to essentially choose between Leaping Shot and Explosive Shot for my particular build and ended up just sacrificing Leaping Shot because I did not think it was especially useful, etc. I also found it annoying that the AI was also limited to eight abilities that they could use at any one time, quite a nasty shock when I found out. But, in reading Fade's posts on the matter and talking about how gaming can 'balance' games I suspect that the reason why I like the combat experience in DA I so much is because they limited the number of active abilities. It may be a personal annoyance but I would much rather have my abilities limited then face the meat shields of Origin or the waves of 'enemies everywhere, even in this small little cave area' of DA 2.
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Post by SKAR on Feb 11, 2017 5:11:51 GMT
Since the main difference between sp and mp is the presence of our squadmates I'm assuming that the extra power(s) might be a way to direct our squadies to attack. In all the gameplay videos, we saw that the boxes next to our squadmates avatars are greyed out on purpose. It seems that this is an aspect of the gameplay that BW doesn't want to show us yet, not until their lengthy gameplay presentation video. We do know from the leaked footage that these boxes are showing a power. We don't know if it's the "primary" power of each squadmate or the power they're using that exact moment. I'm guessing it's their "primary" power. There was only one time in the official trailers where these boxes were showing something but it wasn't a power, it was that "target" thing... ...and we don't know what that is yet. maybe we do get five powers, each with a different button or buttons. They did say that they wanted to eliminate game pausing.
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Post by Dark King on Feb 11, 2017 5:39:06 GMT
I wonder if bonus powers will still be a thing in Andromeda.
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Post by SKAR on Feb 11, 2017 5:41:08 GMT
I wonder if bonus powers will still be a thing in Andromeda. I would hope so.
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Post by colfoley on Feb 11, 2017 5:45:06 GMT
No need for bonus powers given that Ryder can access any power in the game. Unless of course the squadmates have their own unique powers that are just for tem, which seems unlikely given the evidence.
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Post by Dark King on Feb 11, 2017 5:58:24 GMT
No need for bonus powers given that Ryder can access any power in the game. Unless of course the squadmates have their own unique powers that are just for tem, which seems unlikely given the evidence. I don't know Vetra's power armor seems like something unique to her. That's what made me start thinking about the bonus powers. Also I remember a leaked survey mentioning that squadmates would be able to unlock a new skill tree when they have enough loyalty. Although they could have changed that.
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August 2016
theelderking
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by The Elder King on Feb 11, 2017 9:46:13 GMT
No need for bonus powers given that Ryder can access any power in the game. Unless of course the squadmates have their own unique powers that are just for tem, which seems unlikely given the evidence. I don't know Vetra's power armor seems like something unique to her. That's what made me start thinking about the bonus powers. Also I remember a leaked survey mentioning that squadmates would be able to unlock a new skill tree when they have enough loyalty. Although they could have changed that. Well, we do know Ryder can learn both Charge and Invasion and they're not bonus skills, so I don't think Power Armour will either. Maybe the possibile unlockable skill will be.
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sjsharp2010
N7
Go Team!
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition, Dragon Age The Veilguard
Posts: 12,982 Likes: 21,015
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sjsharp2010
Go Team!
12,982
December 2016
sjsharp2010
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition, Dragon Age The Veilguard
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Post by sjsharp2010 on Feb 11, 2017 13:36:24 GMT
I don't know Vetra's power armor seems like something unique to her. That's what made me start thinking about the bonus powers. Also I remember a leaked survey mentioning that squadmates would be able to unlock a new skill tree when they have enough loyalty. Although they could have changed that. Well, we do know Ryder can learn both Charge and Invasion and they're not bonus skills, so I don't think Power Armour will either. Maybe the possibile unlockable skill will be. Agreed I think Power armour is basically a kind of Sentinel Tech armour tbh. Wouldn't be surprised if it's just that to be fair.
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