The Elder King
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Post by The Elder King on Jan 7, 2017 2:16:38 GMT
My point is that they have done this before. If the reason was simply problem with the gamepad they already had the solution, already implemented with the Frosbite as well. I don't think it'd have been that hard to implement it in Andromeda. I still think it's more about MP, especially because they said something about making the two modes closer. Of course. MP is where micro-transactions are. The weird thing is that ME3 didn't have complaints about the two modes being different and the MP was very successful. I don't think have them being different would've caused problems. |
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The Elder King
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Post by The Elder King on Jan 7, 2017 2:17:20 GMT
Making it similar to other games makes more sense to me. I don't remember anyone complaining about the mappable powers in DA games as hard or difficult to use. Hmm. Somehow I don't find the idea of many games becoming similar to be exciting. I meant is as it makes more sense that it was their reasoning behind the change, not that it makes sense as it's a good idea. |
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Post by colfoley on Jan 7, 2017 2:18:13 GMT
Of course. MP is where micro-transactions are. The weird thing is that ME3 didn't have complaints about the two modes being different and the MP was very successful. I don't think have them being different would've caused problems. Probably a way of simplyfying/ synching up the design philosophy, remember ME 3s MP was done by a different team then the team which did the SP. Seems to me it would take more resources to design two seperate games then one experience which is similar from top to bottom. |
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Post by colfoley on Jan 7, 2017 2:21:03 GMT
The weird thing is that ME3 didn't have complaints about the two modes being different and the MP was very successful. I don't think have them being different would've caused problems. You are not thinking like a corporate suit right now. "How can we push MORE players towards MP and therefore getting MORE use out of Micro-Transactions?"... But that does not make sense. Synching up the two play styles I really cannot see will encourage any more people to try out MP then would already. In fact I suspect the opposite is more true. More people who get the game just for the MP (such people exisit) may be more encouraged to try the SP knowing the two systems are alligned in terms of control scheme. |
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Post by colfoley on Jan 7, 2017 2:26:25 GMT
But that does not make sense. Synching up the two play styles I really cannot see will encourage any more people to try out MP then would already. In fact I suspect the opposite is more true. More people who get the game just for the MP (such people exisit) may be more encouraged to try the SP knowing the two systems are alligned in terms of control scheme. Think in the other direction, the idea is to convince those that only play SP to try MP because it plays similarly and therefore less intimidating. Perhaps. I suppose the opposite could work just as easily as the former. But for me the only MP I ever tried out was ME 3s because I hate MP games. Nothing ruins a good game to me like playing with other people. So much so I am not going to even try out ME As for a great long while. Yet I tried out ME 3s, and I really enjoyed it because it was simple to learn (certainly more so then the SP version) and it wasn't competitive but cooperative. |
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Post by ProbeAway on Jan 7, 2017 2:28:43 GMT
But that does not make sense. Synching up the two play styles I really cannot see will encourage any more people to try out MP then would already. In fact I suspect the opposite is more true. More people who get the game just for the MP (such people exisit) may be more encouraged to try the SP knowing the two systems are alligned in terms of control scheme. Think in the other direction, the idea is to convince those that only play SP to try MP because it plays similarly and therefore less intimidating. It's even more than that. The MP shooter crowd is much bigger than the SP RPG crowd. If they can make the game as a whole more appealing to those players then they make more money. |
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Post by midnightwolf on Jan 7, 2017 2:33:34 GMT
Its designed for gamepad crap. Now there is an off chance the keyboard controls will be different but...well if not I feel sorry for my PC gaming brethern. It's got nothing to do with gamepads. I played the trilogy on a gamepad and had access to all powers. DAI on the gamepad had 8 powers hotkeyed. This is a conscious design decision to align with MP, pure and simple. Well that just sucks. MP should not take president over single player. |
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Post by sjsharp2010 on Jan 7, 2017 2:57:28 GMT
It's got nothing to do with gamepads. I played the trilogy on a gamepad and had access to all powers. DAI on the gamepad had 8 powers hotkeyed. This is a conscious design decision to align with MP, pure and simple. Well that just sucks. MP should not take president over single player. I agree but it seems a lot of people are going down that route now. |
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Post by midnightwolf on Jan 7, 2017 3:06:08 GMT
Well that just sucks. MP should not take president over single player. I agree but it seems a lot of people are going down that route now. Yeah, it certainly looks that way. As long as nothing in single player relies on MP.....like galactic readiness in ME:3, or worse, what Ubisoft did in AC:U, then I suppose I can unhappyly put up with it. |
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Post by sjsharp2010 on Jan 7, 2017 3:16:05 GMT
I agree but it seems a lot of people are going down that route now. Yeah, it certainly looks that way. As long as nothing in single player relies on MP.....like galactic readiness in ME:3, or worse, what Ubisoft did in AC:U, then I suppose I can unhappyly put up with it. Indeed I hate it too I just hope that the use of powers does not complicate foir me with the no pause to aim stuff I fear it might but we'l see. I don't mind the limit on active powers so much as I can get around that by choosing what to do more tactically simple as that as that's what I do with DAI it's more the lack of being able to pause that worries me most. |
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Post by fenris on Jan 7, 2017 8:30:10 GMT
Earlier in the thread there were some speculations that perhaps the 3 ability limit is only on low level players or that the PC will have access to a different set of 3 abilities with the push of a button. Well. This picture all but confirms that at any one time the player only has access to a "loadout" (what a dumb term, these are supposed to be skills and abilities, not weapons, you don't "load" your skills in your brain) of three abilities only. How very disappointing Bioware, I find it very hard to get excited about practically anything connected to ME:A knowing that combat is going to be extremely hampered by this idiotic restriction.  You know, I'm actually not sure at all that's what we're seeing here. This reminds me of the armor and weapon slots in ME1. Look at the names - they all sound like tech things that are probably attached to your armor somehow, which actually makes a lot of sense. I'm not sure yet if all abilities will be limited to this, or if you'll be able to get better equipment with more slots like in ME1. This makes me extra curious. Looking forward to some long gameplay trailers and more info. |
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Sanunes
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Post by Sanunes on Jan 7, 2017 14:19:51 GMT
It's got nothing to do with gamepads. I played the trilogy on a gamepad and had access to all powers. DAI on the gamepad had 8 powers hotkeyed. This is a conscious design decision to align with MP, pure and simple. Well that just sucks. MP should not take president over single player. Looking at another major change in Andromeda that there isn't a locked in class anymore could also have something to do with the limitations for it is a lot easier to balance picking three active abilities at once then six or eight. You know no matter what BioWare does there are people that will look for a reason to complain about it, for if there was the six abilities that you could have active they would either complain that single player is too easy because if you pick a certain build the game is too easy. Another one will be how lazy BioWare is for making all the abilities similar for the illusion of balance. |
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Post by longshadow on Jan 7, 2017 14:39:06 GMT
The million-dollar question is... "Why SP must be identical to MP in ME:A?"
We don't know the answer yet but I guess we will find out soon enough.
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Post by sjsharp2010 on Jan 7, 2017 14:40:56 GMT
Well that just sucks. MP should not take president over single player. Looking at another major change in Andromeda that there isn't a locked in class anymore could also have something to do with the limitations for it is a lot easier to balance picking three active abilities at once then six or eight. You know no matter what BioWare does there are people that will look for a reason to complain about it, for if there was the six abilities that you could have active they would either complain that single player is too easy because if you pick a certain build the game is too easy. Another one will be how lazy BioWare is for making all the abilities similar for the illusion of balance. I don't know about that as for me the trilogy system is just about perfect and if people want a higher difficulty they can just raise it up a level e.g. go from Normal to Hard or something like that. I prefer my games to not be button mashers and games where I have to think a little it's one of the main reasons why I like Bioware's games as they offer this way of playing or at least they did. Whether that's changed in MEA we'll have to see but there are a few troubling signs I have to admit in this area. |
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Post by sjsharp2010 on Jan 7, 2017 14:41:52 GMT
The million-dollar question is... "Why SP must be identical to MP in ME:A?" We don't know the answer yet but I guess we will find out soon enough. Let's hope so |
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Post by longshadow on Jan 7, 2017 15:00:00 GMT
The million-dollar question is... "Why SP must be identical to MP in ME:A?" We don't know the answer yet but I guess we will find out soon enough. You answered your own question. It's all about money, or in this case, micro-transactions. Probably, I don't know... What I'm trying to say is that they haven't told us yet in what way are these two linked together but it seems that all the changes in SP have come from this. Only 3 active powers, no pause power wheel, change class if you want etc... |
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Post by Sanunes on Jan 7, 2017 17:54:18 GMT
Looking at another major change in Andromeda that there isn't a locked in class anymore could also have something to do with the limitations for it is a lot easier to balance picking three active abilities at once then six or eight. You know no matter what BioWare does there are people that will look for a reason to complain about it, for if there was the six abilities that you could have active they would either complain that single player is too easy because if you pick a certain build the game is too easy. Another one will be how lazy BioWare is for making all the abilities similar for the illusion of balance. This is a thread above 10 pages with many people who don't like this change for various reasons, and many that actually explained clearly why, but for you we are all "looking for a reason to complain"? That's both unreasonable and highly arrogant of you. The simple truth is that "balance" is not a magical excuse that can explain gutting fun features and minimizing further player options. Its no more arrogant then the assumptions you are making. |
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Post by Sailears on Jan 7, 2017 18:22:11 GMT
I don't get the idea that they would reduce the number of powers in SP to synchronise with MP.
Why not increase the number of powers in MP to synchronise with SP? Surely that makes more sense?
I mean even simply having a fourth "bonus power" would do wonders for variety and creativity.
I found the weakest part of ME3MP was the 3 power restriction - of which you even got passive powers, ammo "powers", grenades and class defining powers (ie cloak, charge, tech armour...) - and then the biggest joke that often players would spec 0/6/6 or similar only maxing two of the "powers"!
This meant that there was all too often a disproportionate focus on weapons in ME3MP, not helped by powers that simply buff your weapon devolving the entire gameplay into a straightforward TPS, spamming one or two "powers" at best.
It's stupid if that's the case in MEA. I can't think of anything more restrictive or boring.
The only silver lining is power charging, deeper melee mechanics and the lack of global cooldown.
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Post by sinkingfish on Jan 7, 2017 18:23:17 GMT
First of all what is it with todays gamers and wanting every single power/ability the game has to offer and then crying that replayability has been killed off?
Secondly, I honestly doubt if there were anymore than three you would remember they were even there, which is probably why they do it.
Thirdly, fuck the fact that theres only three powers, I'm more concerned at the lack of micromanagement/orders which means that squad members will go running halfway across the fucking map to engage an enemy I dont want them to.
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Post by traks on Jan 7, 2017 18:34:08 GMT
I don't think that this will be a big deal. Having only three active powers compared to Shepard's five in ME2 and ME3 (if I remember correctly) just means, that a) we are not as overpowered as Shep at any one point (fits with the story drafting us as unproven) and  that we have to put profiles together where the abilities are in synch. ME3MP showed pretty well that if you have powers that can trigger combos of each other, that three active powers are enough. Not that we didn't know that from singleplayer, didn't we? I mean for example, who really needed singularity, pull and throw all together? Singularity, warp and one ability of your choice surely did the trick against almost any enemy. Also, the profile thing (hopefully well explained from a story standpoint) makes sure, that in total you still have a lot more abilities to choose from. I could be wrong, but until I have played it, I don't see this mechanic change as a negative. |
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Post by midnightwolf on Jan 7, 2017 18:39:35 GMT
First of all what is it with todays gamers and wanting every single power/ability the game has to offer and then crying that replayability has been killed off? Secondly, I honestly doubt if there were anymore than three you would remember they were even there, which is probably why they do it. Thirdly, fuck the fact that theres only three powers, I'm more concerned at the lack of micromanagement/orders which means that squad members will go running halfway across the fucking map to engage an enemy I dont want them to. Wait....When you say 'micro-management'....do you mean we can't give them ANY orders at all? Like which power to use and such? |
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Post by Sailears on Jan 7, 2017 18:41:51 GMT
First of all what is it with todays gamers and wanting every single power/ability the game has to offer and then crying that replayability has been killed off? Secondly, I honestly doubt if there were anymore than three you would remember they were even there, which is probably why they do it. Thirdly, fuck the fact that theres only three powers, I'm more concerned at the lack of micromanagement/orders which means that squad members will go running halfway across the fucking map to engage an enemy I dont want them to. I don't think anyone wants "every single power"... But even only 4 or 5 powers is a whole lot better than three, especially if at least one or two of those 3 powers consist of simple buffs (ie marskman, adrenaline rush, barrier/tech armour), grenades and so on. With individual cooldowns there shouldn't be the situation of spamming the same one or two powers if you had 5 to choose from. There would be the incentive to use any of them off cooldown and while I can't speak for anyone else I certainly wouldn't "forget" they are there. Given the number of buff powers in ME3 (no direct active effect on enemies, only buffing weapon damage, utility or player defence, ie Hunter Mode, Fortification, Repair Matrix, etc), sorry excuses for powers (ie weapon effects like Carnage, Concussive Shot), pets (turrets, drones...) along with grenades being on that system it would be a shame to waste any of a precious three slots for this. Looking at things like the Geth Infiltrator, Human Soldier, Krogan Vanguard the gameplay could be a lot more varied than it was back in me3mp. For the record I don't care about combat in SP or npc squadmates, everything I say is oriented towards MP and improving it from ME3MP. |
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Post by Tiberius on Jan 7, 2017 18:43:44 GMT
The million-dollar question is... "Why SP must be identical to MP in ME:A?" We don't know the answer yet but I guess we will find out soon enough. You answered your own question. It's all about money, or in this case, micro-transactions. Actually, nope, it has nothing whatsoever to do with micro-transactions. While MTX remains a part of our MP experience (like in ME3), it's not part of SP at all and has never been a strong driver for our overall design. The actual reason why we've built SP and MP's core gameplay as much alike as possible is very simple: Quality. Like every other game project, our resources are finite--you never have endless time, people, or focus. And when it comes to your core gameplay, you want to pour as much love and attention into it as you can. While we could make combat work quite differently between SP and MP, that would spread our focus and attention. Creating the best combat experience possible was very high on our list of priorities for MEA, so instead of trying to build two games, we asked ourselves "what would be the most fun Mass Effect combat experience, period?" and then did our absolute best to build that. By having fewer differences between SP and MP, we were able to put more polish and love into every element of combat. It's a smoother, more fluid, and more responsive play experience than we've been able to do in the past as a result, and I hope you'll enjoy the results.  Note: I'm not commenting one way or the other on the "are there only 3 active abilities?" question at this time. We'll be talking about that pretty soon. In this post I'm purely responding to the question of "why did you guys try to make SP and MP more similar?" |
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Post by Sailears on Jan 7, 2017 18:47:42 GMT
You answered your own question. It's all about money, or in this case, micro-transactions. Actually, nope, it has nothing whatsoever to do with micro-transactions. While MTX remains a part of our MP experience (like in ME3), it's not part of SP at all and has never been a strong driver for our overall design. The actual reason why we've built SP and MP's core gameplay as much alike as possible is very simple: Quality. Like every other game project, our resources are finite--you never have endless time, people, or focus. And when it comes to your core gameplay, you want to pour as much love and attention into it as you can. While we could make combat work quite differently between SP and MP, that would spread our focus and attention. Creating the best combat experience possible was very high on our list of priorities for MEA, so instead of trying to build two games, we asked ourselves "what would be the most fun Mass Effect combat experience, period?" and then did our absolute best to build that. By having fewer differences between SP and MP, we were able to put more polish and love into every element of combat. It's a smoother, more fluid, and more responsive play experience than we've been able to do in the past as a result, and I hope you'll enjoy the results. Note: I'm not commenting one way or the other on the "are there only 3 active abilities?" question at this time. We'll be talking about that pretty soon. In this post I'm purely responding to the question of "why did you guys try to make SP and MP more similar?" This is somewhat reassuring, thank you. |
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Post by traks on Jan 7, 2017 18:50:42 GMT
You answered your own question. It's all about money, or in this case, micro-transactions. Actually, nope, it has nothing whatsoever to do with micro-transactions. While MTX remains a part of our MP experience (like in ME3), it's not part of SP at all and has never been a strong driver for our overall design. The actual reason why we've built SP and MP's core gameplay as much alike as possible is very simple: Quality. Like every other game project, our resources are finite--you never have endless time, people, or focus. And when it comes to your core gameplay, you want to pour as much love and attention into it as you can. While we could make combat work quite differently between SP and MP, that would spread our focus and attention. Creating the best combat experience possible was very high on our list of priorities for MEA, so instead of trying to build two games, we asked ourselves "what would be the most fun Mass Effect combat experience, period?" and then did our absolute best to build that. By having fewer differences between SP and MP, we were able to put more polish and love into every element of combat. It's a smoother, more fluid, and more responsive play experience than we've been able to do in the past as a result, and I hope you'll enjoy the results. Note: I'm not commenting one way or the other on the "are there only 3 active abilities?" question at this time. We'll be talking about that pretty soon. In this post I'm purely responding to the question of "why did you guys try to make SP and MP more similar?" Thanks for chiming in! |
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that we have to put profiles together where the abilities are in synch. ME3MP showed pretty well that if you have powers that can trigger combos of each other, that three active powers are enough.
