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Post by guanxi on Jan 7, 2017 22:48:31 GMT
The biggest mystery to me is why LB+RB instead of the Triangle/Y buttton... Y is now reserved for something else... must be important. I'm guessing the touchpad button is for the weapon wheel. PS Option/Xbox start for menu. The dpad is either for squad commands or consumables imo. Triangle, the equivalent on the PS gamepad, is now reserved for scanning. Now the question is why can't it be both, and I suppose its possible it still is...scanning out of combat...something else in...but I bet its just going to be your scanning button. Maybe it's jetpack jump during combat (mode) and scan (contextual) outside of combat?
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Post by Vall on Jan 7, 2017 23:04:57 GMT
Triangle, the equivalent on the PS gamepad, is now reserved for scanning. Now the question is why can't it be both, and I suppose its possible it still is...scanning out of combat...something else in...but I bet its just going to be your scanning button. Maybe it's jetpack jump during combat (mode) and scan (contextual) outside of combat? Don't think so, it was already show you have access to jetpack outside of combat too (during VGA gameplay they jumped over pool of acid)
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Post by sjsharp2010 on Jan 7, 2017 23:07:50 GMT
I suspect that the jetpack is just linked to whatever the jump button is in the game
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Post by ProbeAway on Jan 7, 2017 23:41:07 GMT
I suspect that the jetpack is just linked to whatever the jump button is in the game Yep, I originally thought that the jet pack button would be triangle/Y but this is probably just interact/scan. Linking jump and jet pack makes sense, given the limited number of buttons on the controller.
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Cypher
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Post by Cypher on Jan 8, 2017 1:23:04 GMT
I've been wondering what the dpad-down button is supposed to do in this game. The icon for that button flashes up on the screen at around 1:30 in the CES footage, indicating that the player should press it. I initially thought it might be a squad function but now I think it's probably a fourth skill.It seems highly likely that we have a customisable 3-skill loadout based on what we've seen but we also know that each profile has some sort of special class ability. For soldier, it's marksman's focus and for engineer it's combat drone. Combat drone didn't show up in the tech skill tree and in hindsight this makes sense - it's tied to the profile and can't be swapped in and out like regular tech skills. Otherwise an Infiltrator or a Sentinel might be able to access it. I originally thought it could be a passive skill that was always on in the background but I think it's more logical that we can activate it, hence the dpad-down icon popping up. Having a fourth skill would be a major improvement over three and addresses one of my two biggest concerns so far (the other one being the apparent lack of a power wheel/tactical pause). Edit: SofaJockey did you move this? I kinda liked it as a separate thread :/ I don't think it's a fourth power; it popped up when most of the cooldowns were in effect, so I think it's a way to swap between a second profile mid-combat; maybe the most recent two that were used. Or at least, I hope this is the case.
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Post by colfoley on Jan 8, 2017 1:31:01 GMT
I've been wondering what the dpad-down button is supposed to do in this game. The icon for that button flashes up on the screen at around 1:30 in the CES footage, indicating that the player should press it. I initially thought it might be a squad function but now I think it's probably a fourth skill.It seems highly likely that we have a customisable 3-skill loadout based on what we've seen but we also know that each profile has some sort of special class ability. For soldier, it's marksman's focus and for engineer it's combat drone. Combat drone didn't show up in the tech skill tree and in hindsight this makes sense - it's tied to the profile and can't be swapped in and out like regular tech skills. Otherwise an Infiltrator or a Sentinel might be able to access it. I originally thought it could be a passive skill that was always on in the background but I think it's more logical that we can activate it, hence the dpad-down icon popping up. Having a fourth skill would be a major improvement over three and addresses one of my two biggest concerns so far (the other one being the apparent lack of a power wheel/tactical pause). Edit: SofaJockey did you move this? I kinda liked it as a separate thread :/ I don't think it's a fourth power; it popped up when most of the cooldowns were in effect, so I think it's a way to swap between a second profile mid-combat; maybe the most recent two that were used. Or at least, I hope this is the case. *crosses fingers and everything else that he possible can* Pllleeeaaaasssseee be right.
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Post by ProbeAway on Jan 8, 2017 1:47:31 GMT
I've been wondering what the dpad-down button is supposed to do in this game. The icon for that button flashes up on the screen at around 1:30 in the CES footage, indicating that the player should press it. I initially thought it might be a squad function but now I think it's probably a fourth skill.It seems highly likely that we have a customisable 3-skill loadout based on what we've seen but we also know that each profile has some sort of special class ability. For soldier, it's marksman's focus and for engineer it's combat drone. Combat drone didn't show up in the tech skill tree and in hindsight this makes sense - it's tied to the profile and can't be swapped in and out like regular tech skills. Otherwise an Infiltrator or a Sentinel might be able to access it. I originally thought it could be a passive skill that was always on in the background but I think it's more logical that we can activate it, hence the dpad-down icon popping up. Having a fourth skill would be a major improvement over three and addresses one of my two biggest concerns so far (the other one being the apparent lack of a power wheel/tactical pause). Edit: SofaJockey did you move this? I kinda liked it as a separate thread :/ I don't think it's a fourth power; it popped up when most of the cooldowns were in effect, so I think it's a way to swap between a second profile mid-combat; maybe the most recent two that were used. Or at least, I hope this is the case. Haha I love your (and colfoley 's) optimism and I also hope you're right. I did wonder before if that's what it did. But both overload and flamethrower are off cooldown when it's flashing. Ammo also isn't an issue and shields are still partially up. If I'm right then I'm crossing my fingers that tech shield will be the profile skill for the sentinel, which means I'll be able to set overload and a biotic primer and detonator as my skill loadout.
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Post by colfoley on Jan 8, 2017 1:51:06 GMT
I don't think it's a fourth power; it popped up when most of the cooldowns were in effect, so I think it's a way to swap between a second profile mid-combat; maybe the most recent two that were used. Or at least, I hope this is the case. Haha I love your (and colfoley 's) optimism and I also hope you're right. I did wonder before if that's what it did. But both overload and flamethrower are off cooldown when it's flashing. Ammo also isn't an issue and shields are still partially up. If I'm right then I'm crossing my fingers that tech shield will be the profile skill for the sentinel, which means I'll be able to set overload and a biotic primer and detonator as my skill loadout. If you are right then I find it extremly likely that tech armor will be the Focus Ability for the Sentinel Profile.
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Post by fenris on Jan 8, 2017 5:59:13 GMT
You answered your own question. It's all about money, or in this case, micro-transactions. Actually, nope, it has nothing whatsoever to do with micro-transactions. While MTX remains a part of our MP experience (like in ME3), it's not part of SP at all and has never been a strong driver for our overall design. The actual reason why we've built SP and MP's core gameplay as much alike as possible is very simple: Quality. Like every other game project, our resources are finite--you never have endless time, people, or focus. And when it comes to your core gameplay, you want to pour as much love and attention into it as you can. While we could make combat work quite differently between SP and MP, that would spread our focus and attention. Creating the best combat experience possible was very high on our list of priorities for MEA, so instead of trying to build two games, we asked ourselves "what would be the most fun Mass Effect combat experience, period?" and then did our absolute best to build that. By having fewer differences between SP and MP, we were able to put more polish and love into every element of combat. It's a smoother, more fluid, and more responsive play experience than we've been able to do in the past as a result, and I hope you'll enjoy the results. Note: I'm not commenting one way or the other on the "are there only 3 active abilities?" question at this time. We'll be talking about that pretty soon. In this post I'm purely responding to the question of "why did you guys try to make SP and MP more similar?" Not to mention that it's the right decision to make from a user interface point of view You don't have different interfaces in the same application. It's confusing for people who use both interfaces and makes even less sense story-wise.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 8, 2017 8:20:36 GMT
The only way I will come to enjoy a 3 abilities limit is if the passives are SUPER bad ass. I noticed the new engineer automatically has a combat drone so thats extremely fucking cool and I love it.
If every class has its own unique style and feeling because of cool passives (like the soldier class having the hawke missle launcher for example) I'll be fine with a 3 power limit.
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Post by Sailears on Jan 8, 2017 9:55:34 GMT
I don't think it's a fourth power; it popped up when most of the cooldowns were in effect, so I think it's a way to swap between a second profile mid-combat; maybe the most recent two that were used. Or at least, I hope this is the case. *crosses fingers and everything else that he possible can* Pllleeeaaaasssseee be right. Haha, yes please please be true! Either what you're saying about swapping to another set of three powers with one button press, or having a fourth "class" power on that button.
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Post by NRieh on Jan 8, 2017 10:03:17 GMT
It all depends on what they do to PC controls this time.
PC ME1-3 did not have any native controller support, but they had a decent K+M mapping with no skill limits. ME3 only had skill limits in MP (with no option to remap them, damn it). DAI is the first BW PC game with a controller support since JE, and the K+M UI is still a mess, even after they had patched it. Hopefully MEA is not going to follow the path, I'd love to see an adapted TPS K+M UI, with (may be) some MP restrictions.
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Post by Cypher on Jan 8, 2017 10:38:30 GMT
It all depends on what they do to PC controls this time. PC ME1-3 did not have any native controller support, but they had a decent K+M mapping with no skill limits. ME3 only had skill limits in MP (with no option to remap them, damn it). DAI is the first BW PC game with a controller support since JE, and the K+M UI is still a mess, even after they had patched it. Hopefully MEA is not going to follow the path, I'd love to see an adapted TPS K+M UI, with (may be) some MP restrictions. The PC version has native controller support, but I doubt that means much since Dragon Age had far more complex control scheme with a controller or with a keyboard. Mass Effect is more 1-8 for powers, wasd for movement, an interact key, and the squad movement keys. Far less input to adjust, even with new mechanics, so there's less to screw up.
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Post by Archaengel_X on Jan 8, 2017 13:37:18 GMT
For now, I'm actually fine with the three power restriction. It sort of encourages players to specialize in specific skills instead of being the master of all powers. No. You "encourage players to specialize" by giving more powers than can be earned by leveling, this way players choose the abilities they prefer, you know like RPG's did forever?... Well, let me ask this. I see that we can change classes at anytime during missions. Does this mean we can also change powers within each profile during missions?
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Post by sjsharp2010 on Jan 8, 2017 13:45:28 GMT
No. You "encourage players to specialize" by giving more powers than can be earned by leveling, this way players choose the abilities they prefer, you know like RPG's did forever?... Well, let me ask this. I see that we can change classes at anytime during missions. Does this mean we can also change powers within each profile during missions? Not sure it would be allowed during missions only on the ship most likely. But that might also depend on whether you end up leveling up during a mission I'd guess. As you'd likely have an extra point or so to spend then. I think it depends on the levelling system they've gone with but it looks like that on this game you can level up pretty high as I'm hearing that the cap is 90/100 or something I read in another thread.
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Post by Archaengel_X on Jan 8, 2017 14:17:28 GMT
Well, let me ask this. I see that we can change classes at anytime during missions. Does this mean we can also change powers within each profile during missions? No idea. The ability to change powers like in DA:I isn't terribly relevant to the issue if the limit is still 3 powers at any one time. I was wondering because if we can only equip powers before and after missions, then I imagine the three power loadout is going to be quite annoying to deal with. It would be different if the loadout represented only hotkeyed powers.
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linksocarina
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Post by linksocarina on Jan 8, 2017 16:32:31 GMT
Well, let me ask this. I see that we can change classes at anytime during missions. Does this mean we can also change powers within each profile during missions? No idea. The ability to change powers like in DA:I isn't terribly relevant to the issue if the limit is still 3 powers at any one time. Well, not necessarily. The design mandate for it would be strategic planning by the player, vs tactical planning of the world. It's a game design choice probably done to make the class-system/encounter groups much more diverse than before, instead of spamming the same loadout for thirty or so hours you can mix and match it based on your whims. The point of contention you have is it's a game design limitation though, which I get, but I see why they are doing it from a game standpoint. Considering the high praise for the combat/loadout system found in Mass Effect 3 and the Multiplayer, deviating from that was probably never in the cards.
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Post by linksocarina on Jan 8, 2017 16:52:27 GMT
Well, not necessarily. The design mandate for it would be strategic planning by the player, vs tactical planning of the world. It's a game design choice probably done to make the class-system/encounter groups much more diverse than before, instead of spamming the same loadout for thirty or so hours you can mix and match it based on your whims. The point of contention you have is it's a game design limitation though, which I get, but I see why they are doing it from a game standpoint. Considering the high praise for the combat/loadout system found in Mass Effect 3 and the Multiplayer, deviating from that was probably never in the cards. Oh I get that it's easier (and lazier) for the developer to account for less options, but my point is that playing a caster class with less "spells" is simply less fun. I also care about immersion, and having to forget how to use throw in order to use singularity simply makes no sense. Also, most players are likely going to stick with a Trio of abilities they like, and stick with them for the same thirty or forty hours. Or at least for a long period of time. Same as it was in DA:I. Most players don't like fiddling with stuff all the time. And I never asked them to change the multi-player (even if I think that having more abilities there would also make it better), I'm mainly talking about SP. Lazy is the wrong word for it. Lazy implies they don't care about balance or working on their game. Immersion, by the way, is done through other forms of role-playing outside of actual mechanics; most RPG's barely get enough immersive content to be a relevant thing, as actions and gameplay often superscede the whole ordeal. It is, after all a limited experience in the end.
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Post by linksocarina on Jan 8, 2017 17:36:58 GMT
Lazy is the wrong word for it. Lazy implies they don't care about balance or working on their game. Immersion, by the way, is done through other forms of role-playing outside of actual mechanics; most RPG's barely get enough immersive content to be a relevant thing, as actions and gameplay often superscede the whole ordeal. It is, after all a limited experience in the end. What I meant by "lazy" is that achieving "balance" (as vague as that is) through the overt limitation of player options is a "cheaper" solution than presenting the player with worthy challenges and smart enemies which are dangerous on their own right rather than due to artificial limitations that make no sense. As for immersion, it isn't achieved through any one element, but rather by the game world as a whole. Everything which is overtly "gamey" and can't be explained away logically is another hole poked in immersion. It's funny, but none of BioWare's game found immersion through gameplay if you ask me. It was their presentation and story instead that really pushed that, gameplay was always second from it (like the only class-based interrupt being on the Omega DLC in my recollection) Classes and powers, and abilities and all of that is always abstractly gameified because of a video games limitations or because it's a seperate part of the game compared to the story. In fact, the few times it was married it lead to loss of control by the player, such as the end of Dragon Age 2 or Mass Effect 3. Id argue most video game RPG's never achieve immersion unless you "gameify" parts of it's system anyway, so it's hardly unique to BioWare. Elder Scrolls, Witcher, Ultima, all of them are kind of guilty of this. You are also kind of implying the game is not going to be a challenge due to more diverse player options, but wouldn't the challenge be figuring out the weaknesses of an enemy anyway? Enemies always had exploitable weaknesses (even going to tabletop settings) that the players had to use to their advantage to be efficient at killing them. Is this not the same, but just putting the potential of power in the players hands all the time?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 8, 2017 17:49:21 GMT
Lazy is the wrong word for it. Lazy implies they don't care about balance or working on their game. Immersion, by the way, is done through other forms of role-playing outside of actual mechanics; most RPG's barely get enough immersive content to be a relevant thing, as actions and gameplay often superscede the whole ordeal. It is, after all a limited experience in the end. What I meant by "lazy" is that achieving "balance" (as vague as that is) through the overt limitation of player options is a "cheaper" solution than presenting the player with worthy challenges and smart enemies which are dangerous on their own right rather than due to artificial limitations that make no sense. Well - it does limit the number of skills the combatants will have available at any one point in time, but loosening up the previously strict class system also creates a lot more potential permutations they need to consider and design around. They actually started hybridizing some game features in ME3 - for example, disruptor ammo and overload were previously effective only on shields and synthetics, but in ME3 they also became effective on biotic barriers. From what little we've seen thus far, it does look like combat areas might not be sprinkled with obvious waist-high cover nodes and have thermal clips laying around. That'll be an improvement in immersion.
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Post by linksocarina on Jan 8, 2017 18:03:43 GMT
It's funny, but none of BioWare's game found immersion through gameplay if you ask me. It was their presentation and story instead that really pushed that, gameplay was always second from it (like the only class-based interrupt being on the Omega DLC in my recollection) Classes and powers, and abilities and all of that is always abstractly gameified because of a video games limitations or because it's a seperate part of the game compared to the story. In fact, the few times it was married it lead to loss of control by the player, such as the end of Dragon Age 2 or Mass Effect 3. Id argue most video game RPG's never achieve immersion unless you "gameify" parts of it's system anyway, so it's hardly unique to BioWare. Elder Scrolls, Witcher, Ultima, all of them are kind of guilty of this. You are also kind of implying the game is not going to be a challenge due to more diverse player options, but wouldn't the challenge be figuring out the weaknesses of an enemy anyway? Enemies always had exploitable weaknesses (even going to tabletop settings) that the players had to use to their advantage to be efficient at killing them. Is this not the same, but just putting the potential of power in the players hands all the time? I don't know, I found DA:O's gameplay to be rather immersive. And Jade Empire. ME games also weren't nearly as bad as you are describing when it comes to immersion. Still, having flaws in immersion in other games is not a reason to go all the way in and just crap all over immersion, by all means, improve upon it, make your game MORE immersive, not less. In regards to challenge, what if the enemy's weakness is an ability which I supposed to have mastered but is unfortunately not in my loadout? This limitation is simply too artificial, it's also annoying and anti-fun. Challenge in a TPS can come in different forms, going straight for player options that add variety to gameplay is lazy and annoying. Origins id say wasn't that immersive save for a few points (mostly tied to acquiring specializations, and a bit of the mages involvement in Redcliffe. Otherwise kind of weak) Thing is, because it's a video game it's stuck with limitations. Take Elder Scrolls, those games are never immersive unless the player puts strict limitations on what they do (for example, you role play a specific character and not do everything that is expected of you) or by installing mods to help simulate real-world effects/to promote such limitations on you. Ive yet to see a game out of box to do it well enough for me to say it's something that can be improved upon. It's why it's up to the player to set that limitation. So, if you want to role-play a specific specialization just do it....don't deviate from a class choice and only mix and match given powers you have for your loadout. I kind of planned on that anyway with an Infiltrator class-build anyway, since I like sneaking and sniping in Mass Effect a lot. It also solves your enemy weakness question- if the enemy had that weakness before and you didn't have access to an ability based on a specific class you follow...the goal now is to exploit it via squadmates while you support, just like in the previous Mass Effect games. It's a personal choice to limit yourself. In most cases it's how I get enjoyment out of most RPGs in a second or third playthrough as a challenge- at least through gameplay and combat.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 8, 2017 18:05:56 GMT
In regards to challenge, what if the enemy's weakness is an ability which I supposed to have mastered but is unfortunately not in my loadout? This limitation is simply too artificial and restrictive, it's also annoying and anti-fun. Challenge in a TPS can come in different forms, going straight for player options that add variety to gameplay is lazy and annoying. That kind of pushes you to want to maintain a balanced build / team though, right? It's pretty easy to take your techies when you know you're going to be battling geth, or biotics to face more armored, less shielded enemies. When you don't know what you'll be facing, you'd have more motivation to keep your loadout and squad selection more balanced.
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linksocarina
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by linksocarina on Jan 8, 2017 18:20:00 GMT
Origins id say wasn't that immersive save for a few points (mostly tied to acquiring specializations, and a bit of the mages involvement in Redcliffe. Otherwise kind of weak) Thing is, because it's a video game it's stuck with limitations. Take Elder Scrolls, those games are never immersive unless the player puts strict limitations on what they do (for example, you role play a specific character and not do everything that is expected of you) or by installing mods to help simulate real-world effects/to promote such limitations on you. Ive yet to see a game out of box to do it well enough for me to say it's something that can be improved upon. It's why it's up to the player to set that limitation. So, if you want to role-play a specific specialization just do it....don't deviate from a class choice and only mix and match given powers you have for your loadout. I kind of planned on that anyway with an Infiltrator class-build anyway, since I like sneaking and sniping in Mass Effect a lot. It also solves your enemy weakness question- if the enemy had that weakness before and you didn't have access to an ability based on a specific class you follow...the goal now is to exploit it via squadmates while you support, just like in the previous Mass Effect games. It's a personal choice to limit yourself. In most cases it's how I get enjoyment out of most RPGs in a second or third playthrough as a challenge- at least through gameplay and combat. I'd argue about how immersive specific games was but that's useless. In any case, why is this a reason to make ME:A LESS immersive? You are also talking about personal choice and imposed limits, this is the exact opposite of this. This is a harsh restriction imposed on everyone, whether they like it or not, that's not the same. Well, those limits were always there. You used a lot of tech powers to go after Geth before right? So Mass Effect 1 it's a wise move to keep an engineer or tech-based power handy for most levels to disable or harass Geth patrols. Wouldn't it be the same thing if you face a robot/A.I enemy here? If you don't have the powers to fight it, it wouldn't matter much because of the restriction there that is an inexploitable weakness. Now, if what you are referring too is removing such strengths/weaknesses to enemies, wouldn't that be less immersive then? Perhaps I am not understanding the problem fully, because I don't see any harsh restrictions here outside of number of abilities you have. If the question is simply the number...then i'm not sure I can answer that question. Personally, I don't see that as less immersive.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 8, 2017 18:37:27 GMT
I don't find it appealing at all. I'd much rather have access to all the powers I can earn and use them according to the situation. The need to "forget" abilities and "remember" constantly adds nothing to enjoyment from gameplay. The element of choice would be in the same way it was in other RPG's since forever, you choose the abilities that you want to invest your points in. Whatever was so wrong about this approach? This is a "solution" to a problem that never existed. I don't really disagree with you. I'm mostly trying to rationalize, and find a way to accept these mechanics that will allow me to fully enjoy the game. I've always played them with a controller, and will really miss the power wheel and pause to aim. I suspect, too, that our ability to use squadmates' powers might be MIA, and they will be entirely AI driven, such as what happened in DAI. I also think that a lot of this is in service to MP - which really bites for those of us who aren't into MP. OTOH, I've played a lot of Dragon's Dogma, which also limits you to 3 skills per weapon, and it has some of the most fun combat I've ever experienced in a game. I think the nature of combat will change a lot with the addition of the jet pack (and non-sticky cover), so maybe we won't miss the other abilities much. I guess we'll see.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 8, 2017 19:34:48 GMT
In regards to Dragon's Dogma, I'd say that their approach to spells and abilities severely limited my enjoyment from gameplay. In fact my dislike to their gameplay was such that added to the other problems I had with the game, it caused me to stop playing about 3 hours in. Three hours? You didn't give it much of a chance. The dagger classes (Strider/Ranger/Magic Archer) are hella fun to play once you've unlocked some of their higher level skills. It's the only game I've ever played where I could actually climb big beasties to wail on 'em. Hybrid classes (Magic Archer/Assassin/Mystic Knight) each provide 3-4 different weapon types from which to choose, and each weapon has its own accompanying set of skills. To each their own, I guess.
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