Thrombin
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
Posts: 895 Likes: 1,300
inherit
1491
0
Aug 14, 2019 15:29:00 GMT
1,300
Thrombin
895
Sept 8, 2016 11:35:16 GMT
September 2016
thrombin
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
|
Post by Thrombin on Jan 11, 2017 14:14:05 GMT
Just watch the in-game animation. I tried Shockwave, Push, Pull and Singularity on my Adept and the gesture was identical. My Engineer's powers were also the same as each other. No touching of the omni-tool, just a quick punch forward with the hand. You'll notice on those screenshots that even the Engineer has tech implanted in his brain. Why attach an implant to your brain if not for such a purpose? I'd also point out that the same Omni-tool could be bought and passed around all the tech users of the party in ME1 and none of them inherited different powers as a result. If the powers were enabled by the tool rather than the implants that would not make sense. The CES video even shows direct proof that it's the implant not the omnitool which allows for the Combat Drone ability. The description of the Engineer profile specifically states that the profile reconfigures Ryder's implant to control the Drone. Bioware are not known for great animations, so in-game animations are not a good example. I'm going by the known lore about biotics and omni-tools. The known lore about biotics is that a chip is implanted at the base of the brain which provides an interface port between the user and the biotic amp, that an implant is required in order to effectively use a person's natural biotics and that different implants affect the effectiveness and type of biotic powers that can be manifested. What we know about omni-tools (from ME1) is that the omni-tool itself only alters the effectiveness of a user's tech powers not the nature of them so something else must be affecting the nature of them. We also have direct proof from the CES video that the implant is responsible for combat drone control not the omnitool (it says so explicitly in the text). There's no reason to believe that this wasn't previously the case for Shepard as well. On the contrary the diagrams show clearly that the implants required are different for each class which heavily implies that they are related to the powers of that class. They also show similarities between the schematics of the tech classes, the combat classes and the biotic classes. I have a feeling that the same diagrams were used in ME1 although I'd need to check to be sure. We've already seen several of them re-appear in MEA. In any case. while you are saying that I am making assumptions I believe the above is you making assumptions. At least my assumptions are supported by what the game is showing me (including the animations). My argument is that this is not an addition. It is a seamless integration of how things already have been shown to work. Neither the books nor the codex contradict what I'm saying, though. I'm not saying you have to have specifically an L5x implant to use Singularity. I'm saying that it is the implant which makes it possible. There may be other implants that make it possible. L3x implants may exist which make it possible. Whatever implant the girl in the book had was presumably one that made it possible but without the implant it would not have been possible. That is clearly stated by the text on the Adept class selection screen and, as such, is more legitimately part of the lore than any book or even wiki entry. In any case, as interesting as this Lore discussion is, this wasn't really the point of the thread, merely a separate lore-related complaint that relates to this and the DA:I limitation in equal measure, I'd suggest opening a different discussion about this in the lore section. The reason I raised this lore issue is because of a post you made objecting to the three power loadout as being a "dumb term" and an "idiotic restriction" on the basis that it made no sense for you to be able to switch out learned skills. I was simply pointing out that the use of these powers is not about knowledge or learning but about how the tech used to facilitate those skills is configured. It is certainly clear that that's how the profiles work (based on the descriptions associated with the profiles in the screen shots) so it's no big stretch to believe it's how the loadout works also. As such, I believe it is not as dumb or idiotic as you suggest.
|
|
Iakus
N7
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
Posts: 21,298 Likes: 50,662
inherit
402
0
Dec 21, 2018 17:35:11 GMT
50,662
Iakus
21,298
August 2016
iakus
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
|
Post by Iakus on Jan 11, 2017 15:43:35 GMT
I'm sure Shepard was at least somewhat dependent on having specialized weapons, implants, and equipment. But that's still part of the training. You don't get good at using weapons unless you train at them. A biotic SHepard needed to be trained to use biotic implants. A Shepard with engineering skill needed to be taught how to use specialized omnitool features, and so on. Ryder, who needs training? This magical implant will do it all for you! It can be any biotic implant you want! IT can access any omnitool feature you desire! But it's hard drive is limited, it can only access three skills at a time But again, what is Ryder without the implant? Ryder has had training though. It has been stated (I think in the briefing) that pathfinders have been trained in Biotics and Tech from the start. I don't see any difference between Ryder and Shepard in this regard. They both need training together with the appropriate implanted tech in order to access their abilities but Ryder's implanted tech can be reconfigured on the fly (as long as it is to a type of power that he has previously allocated skill points towards). Ryder has had training in at least three different biotic implants? That's a LOT of brain surgery. Maybe that explains why he/she can only remember three biotic abilities at a time... Has Ryder had training in different kinds of weapons, but is only any good at them if the magic-implant is configured a certain way? And what kind of cr*ppy omnitool does Ryder get issued if it only has three functions, max?
|
|
fade9wayz
N2
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion
Origin: Aresis01
Posts: 190 Likes: 286
inherit
1127
0
Jun 18, 2017 22:17:50 GMT
286
fade9wayz
190
August 2016
fade9wayz
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion
Aresis01
|
Post by fade9wayz on Jan 11, 2017 16:44:38 GMT
So the summary is “screw you, I’m happy”? Mmhh… The only thing I can agree with you it’s that true: you’re indeed lazy. This thread has more than once demonstrated and explained with sufficient reasons why an arbitrary limit of 3 powers (should be implemented, we lack a final confirmation on this matter) is detrimental to the core of the RPG elements of ME. More powers slot instead change nothing, zero, for “lazy player” like yourself: it is enough to remap the one you actively use in the first couple of slots and forget about the rest. And you should know this, because from your post I’m inferring you actively do it. As explained… I think at least twice up until now, applying multiplayer mechanics to single player campaign is plainly wrong: first, in single player we don’t have competent people to share the experience with. So, single player risks of becoming as fun as a gold solo session. Yeah… we can have better, as far as the experience could go. We should have better from someone as Bioware. If instead difficulty is the matter for you, I’m calling bull on the fact that “insanity” it’s too easy: distract and you die in ME3, even when 8 abilities to use together. Should it even be true (and I don’t think it is) your personal performances are hardly the needle of the balance for… balancing. Secondly, who you are to decide what devs can and can’t do before launch with their game (or maybe they have already done or not)? Third, the most sure way to keep nursing a problem is never talking about or doing nothing to change it. SO, I’m happy that FPS logics make you happy in an RPG. But this is not the kind of thread where you should post this kind of opinions when motivated by your own laziness: they make you a perfect target for flaking. No, it's try it before bashing it. You have been lazy in reading my post if it's the only thing you retained from it. ME3SP was easy as hell, even on insanity. It was silver difficulty compared to ME3MP, and I'm not even one of the elite ME3MP players who soloed Platinum with a lvl 1 Quarian engineer, far from it. As far as MPers go, I'm pretty average. Having more active powers was possible in previous installments since the kind of powers available to Shepard were limited by his class, and even then, three active powers were definitely sufficient to complete the games. The level of attention a player can muster is an uncontrollable variable that shouldn't impact the gameplay design. On the other hand, the number of active powers sufficient to complete a game, and how much these powers impact the game difficulty under normal or stressful circumstances is a measurable one. Because of the classless system, and presumably the access to a wider range of powers, MEA needs to be balanced differently than the previous ME games. Considering we'll have weapon mods and ammos being tied to the weapon instead of the character, we'll most likely have mods for the armor as well (like shield amplifiers and whatnot), and the ability to respec whenever without class restrictions, we don't know for sure how many passive powers we'll have either, all of this will already mitigate, if not trivialize, the game difficulty quite a bit. Just thinking about a build with Arc grenades, Reave and Biotic Charge makes me shudder, if these powers work at all like they do in ME3MP and are present in MEA. I can think of some more OP builds, just going with some of the available powers in ME3MP. If we add even more powers, like Marksman, Snap freeze and cloak to that roster of three, all of which on individual cooldowns, I wonder if there will be even a point in having enemies in that game, however bullet-spongy they are. Like it or not, this game isn't only a RPG, it's a TPS as well. It has been since ME1, and a big part of what has endeared this franchise to many of us, not necessarily you, I realize, but many of us do enjoy that aspect of the game. I don't see what's so bad about wanting solid and fun gameplay in that area. So this isn't only FPS logic, this is also gameplay logic. Too much power and the devs will need to compensate the difficulty differently, aka having enemies become bullet sponges with increased speed and damage. But there are limits to doing that before the game becomes just tedious. Putting a low limit to the number of active powers is a tool amongst others to ensure the difficulty levels can be properly balanced. At this point, changing the number of active powers would mean re-balancing the whole game, which is far more work than polishing animation and sound designs. Gameplay design is locked on very early in the making of a game, because it will impact everything, arguably more so than even the story. You seem to only consider the problem from a RPG standpoint, try considering it from a gameplay one too, unless you'd rather just disparage contradicting opinions. And yes, I'm happy I can be lazy and that there's seemingly less chance I will get wrist tendinitis, again, because of possibly poor mouse/keyboard port. One needs to enjoy the little things in life.
|
|
fade9wayz
N2
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion
Origin: Aresis01
Posts: 190 Likes: 286
inherit
1127
0
Jun 18, 2017 22:17:50 GMT
286
fade9wayz
190
August 2016
fade9wayz
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion
Aresis01
|
Post by fade9wayz on Jan 11, 2017 16:52:16 GMT
I have news for you. You can play a soldier and not have to deal with the TERRIBLE problem of having to bind a few powers to a few keys. I just don't want them to force EVERYONE to play soldier. Other breaking news, you can do that with every class, at least in ME3. This has nothing to do with limiting players to a class, even less in a game that will be classless, at least where the protagonist is concerned.
|
|
fade9wayz
N2
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion
Origin: Aresis01
Posts: 190 Likes: 286
inherit
1127
0
Jun 18, 2017 22:17:50 GMT
286
fade9wayz
190
August 2016
fade9wayz
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion
Aresis01
|
Post by fade9wayz on Jan 11, 2017 17:06:51 GMT
Other breaking news, you can do that with every class, at least in ME3. This has nothing to do with limiting players to a class, even less in a game that will be classless. So what's your problem with a large number of abilities if you can do it with every class? I return the question, what is your problem with a limited number of active abilities, if it's perfectly doable like that? Especially if you customize your build to be as effective as possible. And again, what is the limit of active powers then? Why not have them all then? I have 111 buttons on my keyboard, 6 on my mouse. Arguably, I could bind all the game powers, save for the keys necessary for movement and reload. The power wheel would serve the same purpose for console. Why limit yourself to eight? It's as arbitrary as three or sixteen. But you can measure the effective minimal number of powers to complete a game and use it to balance the game difficulty.
|
|
Iakus
N7
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
Posts: 21,298 Likes: 50,662
inherit
402
0
Dec 21, 2018 17:35:11 GMT
50,662
Iakus
21,298
August 2016
iakus
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
|
Post by Iakus on Jan 11, 2017 17:14:02 GMT
So what's your problem with a large number of abilities if you can do it with every class? I return the question, what is your problem with a limited number of active abilities, if it's perfectly doable like that? Especially if you customize your build to be as effective as possible. And again, what is the limit of active powers then? Why not have them all then? I have 111 buttons on my keyboard, 6 on my mouse. Arguably, I could bind all the game powers, save for the keys necessary for movement and reload. The power wheel would serve the same purpose for console. Why limit yourself to eight? It's as arbitrary as three or sixteen. But you can measure the effective minimal number of powers to complete a game and use it to balance the game difficulty. If it's perfectly doable, then do it. Pick the three powers you like best and restrict yourself to them. Enjoy yourself, nothing is stopping you. But for those of us who like having lots of options, we can't enjoy ourselves if you limit us to your playstyle.
|
|
fade9wayz
N2
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion
Origin: Aresis01
Posts: 190 Likes: 286
inherit
1127
0
Jun 18, 2017 22:17:50 GMT
286
fade9wayz
190
August 2016
fade9wayz
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion
Aresis01
|
Post by fade9wayz on Jan 11, 2017 17:19:26 GMT
I return the question, what is your problem with a limited number of active abilities, if it's perfectly doable like that? Especially if you customize your build to be as effective as possible. And again, what is the limit of active powers then? Why not have them all then? I have 111 buttons on my keyboard, 6 on my mouse. Arguably, I could bind all the game powers, save for the keys necessary for movement and reload. The power wheel would serve the same purpose for console. Why limit yourself to eight? It's as arbitrary as three or sixteen. But you can measure the effective minimal number of powers to complete a game and use it to balance the game difficulty. If it's perfectly doable, then do it. Pick the three powers you like best and restrict yourself to them. Enjoy yourself, nothing is stopping you. But for those of us who like having lots of option, we can't enjoy ourselves if you limit us to your playstyle. I already do it, and I don't see how you'll be limited in playstyle when you can basically change your loadout on the fly. Actually, with the classless system, I suspect the playstyles will be more varied than ever. Power limitation is a necessity for balance.
|
|
The Elder King
N6
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Prime Posts: 19631
Posts: 6,370 Likes: 8,285
inherit
104
0
Nov 25, 2024 21:13:35 GMT
8,285
The Elder King
6,370
August 2016
theelderking
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
19631
|
Post by The Elder King on Jan 11, 2017 17:23:16 GMT
If it's perfectly doable, then do it. Pick the three powers you like best and restrict yourself to them. Enjoy yourself, nothing is stopping you. But for those of us who like having lots of option, we can't enjoy ourselves if you limit us to your playstyle. I already do it, and I don't see how you'll be limited in playstyle when you can basically change your loadout on the fly. Actually, with the classless system, I suspect the playstyles will be more varied than ever. Power limitation is a necessity for balance. First, you can't change it during combat, it seems. Second, even if you could, if it works like it seems in the last trailer, accessing the menu obviously stop the flow of combat. Granted, it seems there is something else they didn't show about it (given what they said here and the not-confirmation of the 3 powers limit and waiting for reveal more details) but it's not sure we can access more then 3 powers in a fight.
|
|
pdusen
N3
Posts: 296 Likes: 974
inherit
394
0
974
pdusen
296
August 2016
pdusen
|
Post by pdusen on Jan 11, 2017 17:37:56 GMT
Developers make a gameplay change, people freak out and act as if putting restrictions on players isn't something that devs have been doing for decades. The world keeps on spinning.
|
|
fade9wayz
N2
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion
Origin: Aresis01
Posts: 190 Likes: 286
inherit
1127
0
Jun 18, 2017 22:17:50 GMT
286
fade9wayz
190
August 2016
fade9wayz
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion
Aresis01
|
Post by fade9wayz on Jan 11, 2017 17:39:05 GMT
I already do it, and I don't see how you'll be limited in playstyle when you can basically change your loadout on the fly. Actually, with the classless system, I suspect the playstyles will be more varied than ever. Power limitation is a necessity for balance. First, you can't change it during combat, it seems. Second, even if you could, if it works like it seems in the last trailer, accessing the menu obviously stop the flow of combat. Granted, it seems there is something else they didn't show about it (given what they said here and the not-confirmation of the 3 powers limit and waiting for reveal more details) but it's not sure we can access more then 3 powers in a fight. Indeed, but out of combat you can change your build freely. As far as we know so far, we have access to all powers. We can chose to enter combat with whatever build we chose, therefore our playstyles aren't at all limited. It's just the number of powers pertaining to such playstyles that is. At least that's what the little information we've had so far leads me to believe. There might very well be other nuances we are not aware off yet that might change my understanding of it, but until they are revealed, I will work with what I have.
|
|
fade9wayz
N2
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion
Origin: Aresis01
Posts: 190 Likes: 286
inherit
1127
0
Jun 18, 2017 22:17:50 GMT
286
fade9wayz
190
August 2016
fade9wayz
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion
Aresis01
|
Post by fade9wayz on Jan 11, 2017 17:53:04 GMT
I already do it, and I don't see how you'll be limited in playstyle when you can basically change your loadout on the fly. Actually, with the classless system, I suspect the playstyles will be more varied than ever. Power limitation is a necessity for balance. This is not really a power limitation, more like variety limitation. Also, if gameplay is going to be similar to ME3, the most overpowered aspect of combat (as in the most effective way to kill enemies) is going to be the shooting anyway, so your point is moot. Not true. It's forgetting that what made some weapons so good were powers, Tactical cloak and Marksman being the most guilty of these. The alternative to what you say is making weapons useless, so that it's justified to have more powers to compensate crappy weapons and ammo. Balancing is not easy work and imply limitations of some sort anyway. They chose to limit the number of active powers to do that, most likely because with ME3MP, they had evidence of good balance and fun gameplay with a large variety of weapons, amps and powers for all kits, even if many were less effective than the Gethfiltrator. They could have gone as you say, without powers at all, but then, that really wouldn't have been Mass Effect anymore and that whole discussion would be moot.
|
|
inherit
1033
0
Member is Online
36,966
colfoley
19,151
Aug 17, 2016 10:19:37 GMT
August 2016
colfoley
|
Post by colfoley on Jan 11, 2017 18:18:31 GMT
How does a 'streamlining' neccessarily mean dumbing something down? This is one of the points I think industry wide and a lot of different game franchises, since i have played a lot of different games in my life, intimate that 'streamlining' always equates to making something bad. It just usually seems like older fans of the older games complaining that their super complicated, not user friendly, system is now out of the game because they mastered it when most people cannot. Especially when the goal of any game company is to sell a product, so they have to try and make it accessible and simple to learn. It remains to be seen if this is a net positive or a net negative, and I myself are dubious, but at the end of the day even the streamlining of DA Is abilities did not annoy me over much. Because objectively this isn’t streamlining. Streamlining would be speeding up a game mechanic, leaving it untouched at its core. Again, a 3 abilities system (if confirmed), would be, at most, an over-simplification and not for the better. It wouldn’t be an improve, but an impairment. Being ME at its core nor a MMORPG nor a FPS, I would like to see its RPG mechanics enhanced more than simplified. And again, a 3 ability system can’t be justified because it’s “console friendly” and so ok by default. Are we really deluding ourselves combat system in ME trilogy was hard to grasp? It wasn’t anything more complex than: 1) Unlock powers with abilities points 2) assign a power slot/activate the power wheel 3) use power Also, mapping of powers can be done even on a console pad and with simple and intuitive logic to boot. Let’s say… Oh, I know! Let’s say RT + camera stick correspond at one power for every eight of the circle. I’m a vanguard: RT+ UP (1 o’clock)=Charge. RT+ Down (6 o’clock)= Nova. RT + Up Left (11 o’clock)= Pull And so on: with this simple system, that allows for the mapping of powers with a clockwise logic, you would have 12 powers to use in combos on a console pad. More than the ME1, and more than the standard method for keyboards! And allowing the user to choose which powers fit in each “eight” of the circle would create a simple, personalized yet flexible method to spare console player the infamous power wheel (should you find it clunky/ don’t’ like it). This it’s something I conceived on the fly, so there should be at least 5 more methods to obtain the same on console pads with even more efficiency and flexibility! No, sorry: I stay convinced poor mechanics aren’t acceptable because they are “console friendly” (what a terrible stereotype) . I’m a no fly zone for this kind of bull. The more the thread progress, the more I’m convinced this supposed 3 abilities limit (yet to be hopefully denied) could only have been implemented to facilitate transition to the multiplayer. But as it already has been said, Ryder companions will never be as intelligent and capable as the human mates we play with. So, it would be an artificial and frustrating upper limit and make for a very clunky gameplay, with a difficulty born from sheer mechanics instead of the challenge of mobs. This, without even touching the bleakness that would be the results of a 3 power system for any setups (not only casters). that is a way too complicated system. And i should know because i tried something similar out on sport games once. For pitches you had to do certain things with the sick. Problem is they are never that accurate. If bioware is ever stupid enough to do something like that that Just might be enough for me to break ties with them.
|
|
fade9wayz
N2
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion
Origin: Aresis01
Posts: 190 Likes: 286
inherit
1127
0
Jun 18, 2017 22:17:50 GMT
286
fade9wayz
190
August 2016
fade9wayz
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion
Aresis01
|
Post by fade9wayz on Jan 11, 2017 18:27:25 GMT
Mass Effect as a pure shooter simply wouldn't interest me. It will be one of these games I buy if I find them at something like 40% discount at least. (as it is, I got ME:A at a 30% discount, so we aren't far anyway...) Still, even without those powers you mentioned that enhanced weapons, shooting enemies with top of the line upgraded weapons was simply the highest form of DPS in the game by far. Those powers just made weapons to be god-tier implements of destruction, no biotic/tech combo even came close to the sheer DPS level. So, I can see you understand the value of balancing. If you can have tact cloak + prox mine + marksman with a Piranha on the same build, what do you think will happen? Add, oh, I don't know, incendiary grenades and Overload, and we get absolute pandemonium. Welcome to godhood. I agree with you that bio/tech combos didn't offer as much dps as some weapons, but the solution isn't to give 'casters' more powers (while still wielding those same weapons, by the way, unless you suggest coming back to weapon limitations). The solution is to make these combos more effective (the solution I favor), or to decrease the DPS bonus some powers gave weapons, if you're really looking to even everything across the boards. Personally, I don't mind less effective builds and weapons, because I find them fun to play, like the Vorcha engineer or Volus vanguard. Another solution would indeed be to lower weapon's dps, but to still reward skill with a nice damage bonus for headshots, but I suspect many wouldn't be too happy to find some of their favourite weapons have been nerfed to oblivion.
|
|
Iakus
N7
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
Posts: 21,298 Likes: 50,662
inherit
402
0
Dec 21, 2018 17:35:11 GMT
50,662
Iakus
21,298
August 2016
iakus
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
|
Post by Iakus on Jan 11, 2017 18:39:23 GMT
Mass Effect as a pure shooter simply wouldn't interest me. It will be one of these games I buy if I find them at something like 40% discount at least. (as it is, I got ME:A at a 30% discount, so we aren't far anyway...) Still, even without those powers you mentioned that enhanced weapons, shooting enemies with top of the line upgraded weapons was simply the highest form of DPS in the game by far. Those powers just made weapons to be god-tier implements of destruction, no biotic/tech combo even came close to the sheer DPS level. So, I can see you understand the value of balancing. If you can have tact cloak + prox mine + marksman with a Piranha on the same build, what do you think will happen? Add, oh, I don't know, incendiary grenades and Overload, and we get absolute pandemonium. Welcome to godhood. I agree with you that bio/tech combos didn't offer as much dps as some weapons, but the solution isn't to give 'casters' more powers (while still wielding those same weapons, by the way, unless you suggest coming back to weapon limitations). The solution is to make these combos more effective (the solution I favor), or to decrease the DPS bonus some powers gave weapons, if you're really looking to even everything across the boards. Personally, I don't mind less effective builds and weapons, because I find them fun to play, like the Vorcha engineer or Volus vanguard. Another solution would indeed be to lower weapon's dps, but to still reward skill with a nice damage bonus for headshots, but I suspect many wouldn't be too happy to find some of their favourite weapons have been nerfed to oblivion. First off, the Piranha is a MP-only weapon. Second, an Infiltrator in ME3 could already do most of that: Tactical Cloak, Sticky grenade evolved to proximity trap, Marksman as a bonus power, and Incinerate. Sabotage isn't the same thing as Overload, but they both round things out nicely.So I fail to see your point here.
|
|
fade9wayz
N2
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion
Origin: Aresis01
Posts: 190 Likes: 286
inherit
1127
0
Jun 18, 2017 22:17:50 GMT
286
fade9wayz
190
August 2016
fade9wayz
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion
Aresis01
|
Post by fade9wayz on Jan 11, 2017 18:47:18 GMT
So, I can see you understand the value of balancing. If you can have tact cloak + prox mine + marksman with a Piranha on the same build, what do you think will happen? Add, oh, I don't know, incendiary grenades and Overload, and we get absolute pandemonium. Welcome to godhood. I agree with you that bio/tech combos didn't offer as much dps as some weapons, but the solution isn't to give 'casters' more powers (while still wielding those same weapons, by the way, unless you suggest coming back to weapon limitations). The solution is to make these combos more effective (the solution I favor), or to decrease the DPS bonus some powers gave weapons, if you're really looking to even everything across the boards. Personally, I don't mind less effective builds and weapons, because I find them fun to play, like the Vorcha engineer or Volus vanguard. Another solution would indeed be to lower weapon's dps, but to still reward skill with a nice damage bonus for headshots, but I suspect many wouldn't be too happy to find some of their favourite weapons have been nerfed to oblivion. First off, the Piranha is a MP-only weapon. Second, an Infiltrator in ME3 could already do most of that: Tactical Cloak, Sticky grenade evolved to proximity trap, Marksman as a bonus power, and Incinerate. So I fail to see your point here. It won't be MP-only in MEA. We've already seen it in the gameplay trailer. If you fail to see how OP that made Shepard, I guess discussing balance is pointless. With that, I'm off to play my off-meta, less than effective, but still fun to play main Junkrat.
|
|
sjsharp2010
N7
Go Team!
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition, Dragon Age The Veilguard
Posts: 12,986 Likes: 21,018
inherit
2309
0
Nov 27, 2024 19:03:17 GMT
21,018
sjsharp2010
Go Team!
12,986
December 2016
sjsharp2010
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition, Dragon Age The Veilguard
|
Post by sjsharp2010 on Jan 11, 2017 18:52:47 GMT
So, I can see you understand the value of balancing. If you can have tact cloak + prox mine + marksman with a Piranha on the same build, what do you think will happen? Add, oh, I don't know, incendiary grenades and Overload, and we get absolute pandemonium. Welcome to godhood. I agree with you that bio/tech combos didn't offer as much dps as some weapons, but the solution isn't to give 'casters' more powers (while still wielding those same weapons, by the way, unless you suggest coming back to weapon limitations). The solution is to make these combos more effective (the solution I favor), or to decrease the DPS bonus some powers gave weapons, if you're really looking to even everything across the boards. Personally, I don't mind less effective builds and weapons, because I find them fun to play, like the Vorcha engineer or Volus vanguard. Another solution would indeed be to lower weapon's dps, but to still reward skill with a nice damage bonus for headshots, but I suspect many wouldn't be too happy to find some of their favourite weapons have been nerfed to oblivion. First off, the Piranha is a MP-only weapon. Second, an Infiltrator in ME3 could already do most of that: Tactical Cloak, Sticky grenade evolved to proximity trap, Marksman as a bonus power, and Incinerate. Sabotage isn't the same thing as Overload, but they both round things out nicely.So I fail to see your point here. Actually the Piranha is an SP gun as well as I had it equipped to James earlier in my current ME3 playthrough. I don't use it myself but then I'm not a shotgun person I use Assault and Sniper rifles and attack at range mostly much like Garrus
|
|
Iakus
N7
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
Posts: 21,298 Likes: 50,662
inherit
402
0
Dec 21, 2018 17:35:11 GMT
50,662
Iakus
21,298
August 2016
iakus
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
|
Post by Iakus on Jan 11, 2017 18:53:56 GMT
First off, the Piranha is a MP-only weapon. Second, an Infiltrator in ME3 could already do most of that: Tactical Cloak, Sticky grenade evolved to proximity trap, Marksman as a bonus power, and Incinerate. So I fail to see your point here. It won't be MP-only in MEA. We've already seen it in the gameplay trailer. If you fail to see how OP that made Shepard, I guess discussing balance is pointless.With that, I'm off to play my off-meta, less than effective, but still fun to play main Junkrat. Yes, it's pointless, because in a SP game, balance is less of an issue. You can make powerful or challenging builds based on how YOU want to play. When you add MP to the mix, the nail that sticks up gets hammered down. Everyone has to be special, so no one is.
|
|
Iakus
N7
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
Posts: 21,298 Likes: 50,662
inherit
402
0
Dec 21, 2018 17:35:11 GMT
50,662
Iakus
21,298
August 2016
iakus
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
|
Post by Iakus on Jan 11, 2017 18:56:31 GMT
First off, the Piranha is a MP-only weapon. Second, an Infiltrator in ME3 could already do most of that: Tactical Cloak, Sticky grenade evolved to proximity trap, Marksman as a bonus power, and Incinerate. Sabotage isn't the same thing as Overload, but they both round things out nicely.So I fail to see your point here. Actually the Piranha is an SP gun as well as I had it equipped to James earlier in my current ME3 playthrough. I don't use it myself but then I'm not a shotgun person I use Assault and Sniper rifles and attack at range mostly much like Garrus The Pirahna in SP is part of a paid DLC pack. So in that case, it's available in SP. But only if you're willing to pay for it.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Deleted
inherit
guest@proboards.com
1818
0
Deleted
0
January 1970
Deleted
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 11, 2017 19:33:25 GMT
Think about this logically, why would an engineer NEED an implant in their brain in order to use essentially a computer with a micro fabrication unit? To provide a direct interface between the brain and the tool? There are some cutscenes that show Shepard working with the omnitool as if it has some sort of external interface, but there are other times when Shepard uses the tool without punching any buttons or otherwise manipulating an obvious interface. Can you shoot a gun without a trigger or type on that computer without a keyboard? No you can't. Ryder has had training in at least three different biotic implants? That's a LOT of brain surgery. Maybe that explains why he/she can only remember three biotic abilities at a time... One implant, multiple configurations. One that has memory limits and can only load so much software at a time? Or one that needs to load different OS or drivers, depending on what the user might want to do with it. Playing a "Caster" class with only 3 abilities is simply less enjoyable than playing a versatile caster with a large number of "spells" and the ability to solve different problems in different ways. Honestly - I have to wonder if trying to play a pure (or primarily) caster class is going to be viable with the longer cooldowns. If you can't control squadmate powers, you're not going to be able to use combos as frequently as ME3 afforded. So - it may be that the powers do significantly more damage than they have in the past, or work very differently.
|
|
spacebeetle
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy
Posts: 462 Likes: 711
inherit
2525
0
Apr 26, 2017 15:38:15 GMT
711
spacebeetle
462
January 2017
spacebeetle
Mass Effect Trilogy
|
Post by spacebeetle on Jan 11, 2017 19:58:43 GMT
So the summary is “screw you, I’m happy”? Mmhh… The only thing I can agree with you it’s that true: you’re indeed lazy. This thread has more than once demonstrated and explained with sufficient reasons why an arbitrary limit of 3 powers (should be implemented, we lack a final confirmation on this matter) is detrimental to the core of the RPG elements of ME. More powers slot instead change nothing, zero, for “lazy player” like yourself: it is enough to remap the one you actively use in the first couple of slots and forget about the rest. And you should know this, because from your post I’m inferring you actively do it. As explained… I think at least twice up until now, applying multiplayer mechanics to single player campaign is plainly wrong: first, in single player we don’t have competent people to share the experience with. So, single player risks of becoming as fun as a gold solo session. Yeah… we can have better, as far as the experience could go. We should have better from someone as Bioware. If instead difficulty is the matter for you, I’m calling bull on the fact that “insanity” it’s too easy: distract and you die in ME3, even when 8 abilities to use together. Should it even be true (and I don’t think it is) your personal performances are hardly the needle of the balance for… balancing. Secondly, who you are to decide what devs can and can’t do before launch with their game (or maybe they have already done or not)? Third, the most sure way to keep nursing a problem is never talking about or doing nothing to change it. SO, I’m happy that FPS logics make you happy in an RPG. But this is not the kind of thread where you should post this kind of opinions when motivated by your own laziness: they make you a perfect target for flaking. No, it's try it before bashing it. You have been lazy in reading my post if it's the only thing you retained from it. ME3SP was easy as hell, even on insanity. It was silver difficulty compared to ME3MP, and I'm not even one of the elite ME3MP players who soloed Platinum with a lvl 1 Quarian engineer, far from it. As far as MPers go, I'm pretty average. Having more active powers was possible in previous installments since the kind of powers available to Shepard were limited by his class, and even then, three active powers were definitely sufficient to complete the games. The level of attention a player can muster is an uncontrollable variable that shouldn't impact the gameplay design. On the other hand, the number of active powers sufficient to complete a game, and how much these powers impact the game difficulty under normal or stressful circumstances is a measurable one. Because of the classless system, and presumably the access to a wider range of powers, MEA needs to be balanced differently than the previous ME games. Considering we'll have weapon mods and ammos being tied to the weapon instead of the character, we'll most likely have mods for the armor as well (like shield amplifiers and whatnot), and the ability to respec whenever without class restrictions, we don't know for sure how many passive powers we'll have either, all of this will already mitigate, if not trivialize, the game difficulty quite a bit. Just thinking about a build with Arc grenades, Reave and Biotic Charge makes me shudder, if these powers work at all like they do in ME3MP and are present in MEA. I can think of some more OP builds, just going with some of the available powers in ME3MP. If we add even more powers, like Marksman, Snap freeze and cloak to that roster of three, all of which on individual cooldowns, I wonder if there will be even a point in having enemies in that game, however bullet-spongy they are. Like it or not, this game isn't only a RPG, it's a TPS as well. It has been since ME1, and a big part of what has endeared this franchise to many of us, not necessarily you, I realize, but many of us do enjoy that aspect of the game. I don't see what's so bad about wanting solid and fun gameplay in that area. So this isn't only FPS logic, this is also gameplay logic. Too much power and the devs will need to compensate the difficulty differently, aka having enemies become bullet sponges with increased speed and damage. But there are limits to doing that before the game becomes just tedious. Putting a low limit to the number of active powers is a tool amongst others to ensure the difficulty levels can be properly balanced. At this point, changing the number of active powers would mean re-balancing the whole game, which is far more work than polishing animation and sound designs. Gameplay design is locked on very early in the making of a game, because it will impact everything, arguably more so than even the story. You seem to only consider the problem from a RPG standpoint, try considering it from a gameplay one too, unless you'd rather just disparage contradicting opinions. And yes, I'm happy I can be lazy and that there's seemingly less chance I will get wrist tendinitis, again, because of possibly poor mouse/keyboard port. One needs to enjoy the little things in life.I see you certainly didn't spend much time reading my post. Your perception on ME single and multiplayer difficulty aside, I beg to disagree on your conclusions. As has already been said by our OP, you can complete ME in any way you want to play. Correct! You should be able to do it.. And what if there are people who don’t want to play with only 3 powers? Who like to combos? Must they be left wanting, because a 3 powers mechanic is good enough for you? You really like your high horse I see. My point, I suppose I can say one of the point of this thread, is that combat system that allows for more powers to be used doesn’t hurt anyone, rather enhances the experience of the game, and is in agreement with the Mass Effect we’ve learned to appreciate and love. I like the hybrid of fast pacing FPS and RPG as the next person, but I like both of the aspect. I would care less for another generic sci fi FPS game with a good story. And surely as hell I don’t want ME to be devaluated with poor game mechanics motivated with the idea that when they’re “console friendly” they become good. Previous installation of the game showed that, even when they are class locked, both of these approaches were possible and your posts are a testament to this truth. The same it’s not true, it can’t be possibly true even from a mere numerical standpoint, for a 3 abilities system. So, why the gameplay should be pledged to the “stereotypical” instead of making everyone happy? It’s not about bashing a still-to-be-confirmed-system: it’s about basic enjoyment for as many people as possible. Between stronger enemies (also more intelligent) and a cage of a combat system, why choosing the cage? Especially when you yourself wish for tougher (which means also smarter) opponents: i.e, mobs actively flanking you and working ruthlessly in tandem, something we are already half there in ME3MP. It’s only a matter of continuing in that direction… “And yes, I'm happy I can be lazy and that there's seemingly less chance I will get wrist tendinitis, again, because of possibly poor mouse/keyboard port. One needs to enjoy the little things in life.”Lastly, this kind of logic is a stinking pile of shit at its finest: accusing a game mechanic you don’t use, and don’t want to use, to be the cause of wrist damage its bogus. No one get tendinitis for gameplay mechanics: they get it for chronic abuse of gameplay hours (among the others) with or without a poor diet to aggravate the situation. You don’t alter game mechanics when you get tendinitis: you play less. Period. This kind of bullshit logic it’s the same that idiots use when they accuse games to incite violence because a minority of gamers are violent people: so, please take it back. It isn’t worth it of this forum.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Deleted
inherit
guest@proboards.com
1818
0
Deleted
0
January 1970
Deleted
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 11, 2017 19:59:43 GMT
You don't NEED a direct brain interface to use a computer with a micro fabrication unit, it's an overly complicated solution to a problem that doesn't exist. No, you don't - so long as you're willing to stop fighting long enough to holster your weapon, hold up your omnitool arm, look for the buttons to push and push them, right in the middle of battle. No, I don't have any technology that provides a direct interface between my brain and some tool, so I use the commonly provided interfaces when I interact with tools. Triggers on guns and keyboards on computers are both commonly used, standard issue interfaces to use their associated tools. Even now, some computing devices have touchscreens instead of keyboards. What's the highest number of tech powers the omnitool could support in the trilogy? Those comments weren't necessarily directed at you. Ability restrictions plus longer cooldowns plus no access to squadmate powers plus jet packs spell a pretty big change in combat mechanics and dynamics for MEA.
|
|
Iakus
N7
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
Posts: 21,298 Likes: 50,662
inherit
402
0
Dec 21, 2018 17:35:11 GMT
50,662
Iakus
21,298
August 2016
iakus
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
|
Post by Iakus on Jan 11, 2017 20:00:42 GMT
Ryder has had training in at least three different biotic implants? That's a LOT of brain surgery. Maybe that explains why he/she can only remember three biotic abilities at a time... One implant, multiple configurations. An implant which doesn't seem to exist in the Milky Way galaxy Then he should have gotten one of the omnitools that Shepard had in the trilogy. Much more versatile.
|
|
Iakus
N7
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
Posts: 21,298 Likes: 50,662
inherit
402
0
Dec 21, 2018 17:35:11 GMT
50,662
Iakus
21,298
August 2016
iakus
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
|
Post by Iakus on Jan 11, 2017 20:01:59 GMT
To provide a direct interface between the brain and the tool? There are some cutscenes that show Shepard working with the omnitool as if it has some sort of external interface, but there are other times when Shepard uses the tool without punching any buttons or otherwise manipulating an obvious interface. Can you shoot a gun without a trigger or type on that computer without a keyboard? No you can't. One that has memory limits and can only load so much software at a time? Or one that needs to load different OS or drivers, depending on what the user might want to do with it. Honestly - I have to wonder if trying to play a pure (or primarily) caster class is going to be viable with the longer cooldowns. You don't NEED a direct brain interface to use a computer with a micro fabrication unit, it's an overly complicated solution to a problem that doesn't exist. As I said, Kaidan wasn't happy to go under the knife for brain surgery despite the very obvious flaw in his implant, that should tell you that even in the ME universe such a procedure is not that common, certainly not to the point where every engineer goes through it. Equating a BRAIN IMPLANT to a a gun without a trigger or a computer without a keyboard is false equivalence. You didn't implant a trigger or a keyboard in your brain, did you? Memory limit is certainly not a good reason for the 3 ability limit, technology shouldn't evolve backwards, and previous iterations have already established that this limit doesn't exist. I never said longer cooldowns are a good thing, but they are certainly going to be even worse when you only have 3 abilities to choose from. Not to mention we already know what the interface is: Computers: Haptic Adaptive Interface Advances in computing have done away with traditional input devices like keyboards. Instead, modern input peripherals are usually holographically displayed in front of the user at a height and angle for ergonomic ease. Machines that use this interface detect a user through a microframe chip in the user's glove that "keys in" to the computer. Once a user is accepted, motion accelerometers in the user's gloves match his hands' location with that of a proportionate but smaller "mirror" set of controls inside the computer itself. As the user presses against the holographic field, force-feedback in the glove kicks in, giving a slight resistance. A person can feel his way through using a touch-screen that isn't actually there. A simple toggle switch on the back of the hands allows the glove to be turned off when not in use.
Haptic interfaces have become so common that some individuals undergo cybernetic enhancement surgery to have the accelerometers implanted in their fingertips. "Going bareskin" is the sign of a committed computer user who no longer has to fuss with putting on gloves or cleaning them with alcohol wipes to get rid of the clammy-hand smell.
|
|
Iakus
N7
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
Posts: 21,298 Likes: 50,662
inherit
402
0
Dec 21, 2018 17:35:11 GMT
50,662
Iakus
21,298
August 2016
iakus
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
|
Post by Iakus on Jan 11, 2017 20:24:53 GMT
Don't remember off hand, certainly more than double than 3. And in ME1 companions had this number as well (8 IIRC), not just the protagonist. Engineer in ME3: Incinerate Overload Combat Drone Cryo Blast Sentry Turret Sabotage Unity (presumably) Seven active powers, plus the bonus power
|
|
The Elder King
N6
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Prime Posts: 19631
Posts: 6,370 Likes: 8,285
inherit
104
0
Nov 25, 2024 21:13:35 GMT
8,285
The Elder King
6,370
August 2016
theelderking
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
19631
|
Post by The Elder King on Jan 11, 2017 20:35:46 GMT
I wouldn't put Unity as a power, to be honest.
|
|