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Post by AnDromedary on Dec 9, 2016 21:00:29 GMT
Sure, you'd take about 50 years to traverse the entire Andromeda galaxy (as it has about double the diameter as the Milky Way) so development would be slower but traveling to neighboring clusters should no longer be a big deal. The relays in the MW are still useful, no doubt but in Andromeda, where we only have a relatively small number of people as it is, they are definitely not needed. Assuming we have functional ODSY drives left at the end of this game... This also isn't nearly as exciting or plot friendly as jumping through a relay to the next star cluster. I'd rather see a faster, safer option that doesn't involve cryosleep or old age. In any case, long -range FTL is probably an issue for a later game. Edit: I really enjoy your avatar and screen-name. I would just assume they don't cross the entire Andromeda galaxy right away. Going to the next cluster should just be a matter of days, weeks at the most. That's pretty ok. Back in the day, traveling across the Atlantic ocean took a few months as well. And thanks for the compliment about my avatar. Just don't tell my boss what I use our work licensed photoshop for.
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Post by garrusfan1 on Dec 10, 2016 1:05:20 GMT
That must be one big cluster.... According to lore less than 1% of the milkyway was explored.... So there was still a lot of exploring to be done in the known clusters of the milkyway. For some reason they thought it would be interestign and a good idea to expand into Andromeda aswell. Why now, though it's an extreme project. According to briefing the project started as a human initiated project by wealthy businesses and people who probably wanted prestige. Then they got very powerful and influential backers that increased the scope of the project... I'm guessing the Council decided to support the project and use it as a lifeboat to save their civilisations hoping their species might survive in Andromeda even if they get wiped out in the milkyway like those thousand previous cycles of sentient species. So I guess you could say that it started with humans being humans doing what the vikings and columbus and all those other explorers did, and then when the others heard... Oh... You're leaving the galaxy? We will come along! I wonder who got the worst time ahead of them, the ones who decided to run away with the human explorers, or the ones that stayed to fight the reapers... well exploration in the milky way was actually discouraged by the council because opening dormant mass relays can let something nasty in
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Post by derrame on Dec 10, 2016 1:42:09 GMT
so, the game takes place only in a single star cluster and not in the entire Andromeda galaxy? is that correct?
and what star cluster is that?
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Post by Link"Guess"ski on Dec 10, 2016 1:44:12 GMT
We only need Mass Relays to travel between star clusters. For example, you'd need a relay to travel from the Horse Head Nebula to Hades Nexus. Once in Hades Nexus, though, you could access the entire cluster via standard FTL travel. Thus, the entire Heleus Cluster will be accessible to us in Andromeda. MEA is set in a single star cluster. That must be one big cluster.... Duh. I don't think the 4 systems or so within most clusters in Mass Effect are the only systems there are, just the ones we could access. Look at the visuals. You can see several stars besides those you can enter. Another reason why ME3 has a way too convenient plot with all those reunions and another reason why the Andromeda Initiative makes me laugh, becuase there was so much we've never seen in Milky Way let alone been officially explored if you think about how empty most worlds we land on actually are in ME1 - and there are a bazillion more we haven't even seen. The analogy BioWare is making with Andromeda is the 1960s when our russian and then american pioneers went to the moon for the very first time. The analogy they should've made was to say that colombo decided to build a space rocket right after docking in America. It's really silly.
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Post by colfoley on Dec 10, 2016 1:44:27 GMT
so, the game takes place only in a single star cluster and not in the entire Andromeda galaxy? is that correct? and what star cluster is that? Hellius
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Post by Link"Guess"ski on Dec 10, 2016 1:48:32 GMT
They handwave it by saying it has an excessive amount of golden worlds in it, so that probably means there are several solar systems with multiple inhabitable planets maybe. Perhaps that will have something to do with the fact that we're in a different galaxy, so the anatomy is different, they might even make some backstory for why it is so, perhaps via the Remnant tech or whatever other ancient lore we'll learn about.
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Post by zarrokhai on Dec 10, 2016 2:17:15 GMT
That must be one big cluster.... Duh. I don't think the 4 systems or so within most clusters in Mass Effect are the only systems there are, just the ones we could access. Look at the visuals. You can see several stars besides those you can enter. Another reason why ME3 has a way too convenient plot with all those reunions and another reason why the Andromeda Initiative makes me laugh, becuase there was so much we've never seen in Milky Way let alone been officially explored if you think about how empty most worlds we land on actually are in ME1 - and there are a bazillion more we haven't even seen. The analogy BioWare is making with Andromeda is the 1960s when our russian and then american pioneers went to the moon for the very first time. The analogy they should've made was to say that colombo decided to build a space rocket right after docking in America. It's really silly. I'm not really sure what you're trying to tell me here, I was just marvelling at the size not looking to find reasons to criticize ME:A or the ME Trilogy
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Dec 10, 2016 2:22:32 GMT
The Mass Relays were only needed for long distance FTL travel. Secondary Mass Relays allowed a ship to travel hundreds of light years to another Mass Relay in an instant, and Primary Mass Relays allowed the same for thousands of light years. This allowed clusters to be connected. Once you got within a cluster and were doing short distance travel, you used your ship's Mass Effect drive which allows a ship of our cycle to travel between 12 to 15 light years in a day and overall about 25 light years before needing to stop and discharge the static buildup. The people of the Andromeda Initiative developed the ODSY Drive to allow the Nexus and four Arks to no longer need to discharge and instead harness that energy to allow the trip to Andromeda without Mass Relays though at the speed of our drives, hence the 600 years it takes for us to get there. I am sad that there will be no Mass Relays in Mass Effect: Andromeda and potentially never again. They were like the icon of the franchise for me. One of the long term goals of the Andromeda Initiative is to establish a relay in the Helius Cluster that links to the Milky Way. That probably won't show up in the game, but since a relay was mentioned they could show up in sequels. Unless the Andromeda colonists find a better means of travelling between star clusters, they'd have to build relays if they eventually expand beyond the Helius cluster as well. I know, but I'd almost put money on something happening that causes that to no longer be possible since otherwise they'd have to deal with a post-ME3 Milky Way which seems to be a big reason for the setting change in the first place. And as a few others pointed out, chances are there will be some kind of replacement that is like them or we just use the Arks. Either way, the Mass Relays would be no more.
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Post by BansheeOwnage on Dec 10, 2016 9:08:50 GMT
THMP. TH-TH-THMP. Reminds me of something... Can't place it. I wonder what those arms on the Arks are for. Was also very surprised that the Nexus is less than half done at this point. I feel like realistically, it would be hard to construct the rest in Andromeda, without a small fleet of construction vehicles. We only need Mass Relays to travel between star clusters. For example, you'd need a relay to travel from the Horse Head Nebula to Hades Nexus. Once in Hades Nexus, though, you could access the entire cluster via standard FTL travel. Thus, the entire Heleus Cluster will be accessible to us in Andromeda. MEA is set in a single star cluster.Which explains why we're only likely to see 2 intelligent native species. It's good for Bioware in that sense. They can only do a few new species, which takes fewer resources, but can still add more in later games if they want, as we expand. I also like the feeling more of exploring worlds in a dense fashion rather than one here, one 1000 lightyears away, etc. The Mass Relays were only needed for long distance FTL travel. Secondary Mass Relays allowed a ship to travel hundreds of light years to another Mass Relay in an instant, and Primary Mass Relays allowed the same for thousands of light years. This allowed clusters to be connected. Once you got within a cluster and were doing short distance travel, you used your ship's Mass Effect drive which allows a ship of our cycle to travel between 12 to 15 light years in a day and overall about 25 light years before needing to stop and discharge the static buildup. The people of the Andromeda Initiative developed the ODSY Drive to allow the Nexus and four Arks to no longer need to discharge and instead harness that energy to allow the trip to Andromeda without Mass Relays though at the speed of our drives, hence the 600 years it takes for us to get there. I am sad that there will be no Mass Relays in Mass Effect: Andromeda and potentially never again. They were like the icon of the franchise for me. This makes me wonder if the ODSY drives will in fact only be for the Arks and Nexus, or if the smaller Initiative ships such as the Tempest will have them. It bugs me heavily that so far there is no sign of an escort fleet for this mission Would be nice to know what the combat capabilities of the Arks are. That must be one big cluster.... It's all relative. Star clusters are huge by any human standard, but small on a universal scale (as everything is if you go out far enough). Globular clusters have hundreds of thousands of stars, each likely having at least one planet. Most of these won't be habitable of course, but there is still a lot to work with, especially where resources are concerned. As others mentioned, this cluster will indeed feel enormous, but that's only because we'll explore it much more thoroughly than any before. I bet this one cluster will feel like a galaxy of its own, since it will probably have as much or more to explore than the entire galaxy did in any single ME game... possibly even all of them combined if we're lucky. I keep thinking of that big space station looking "vault" that kept popping up during the early days. I believe it was an official concept art order. It always looked like some sort of transit hub, to me. It may not be, but I just thought of it again, as I was typing this comment. The Remnant got around somehow, and it didn't involve a Mass Relay network. (I'm just assuming they had a galactic presence.) This thing, for visual reference: Transit hub you say? Clearly, it's a Borg installation. Wait no, a Kree warship. Or a Svartálfar vessel. Hmm... the Tet? Sorry, I'm tired and my mind jumped to a bunch of dark geometric scifi designs If that's our ship heading to it, it must be pretty big, whatever it is. Transit hub is certainly possible, but maybe it's a derelict vessel? I love those Or rather, love how awesomely creepy they are. I find it rather unbelievable that the Helius cluster is closed off from the rest of Andromeda. That would make those other developed alien species confined to the helius cluster. I think the remnant might have left something ala Mass Relay technology. However, I also would find it hard to believe that if there were ways of transportation between the other clusters of Andromeda, then our enemies faction would not call in reinforcements from said other clusters. What do you guys think? It's possible the Kett have developed Mass Effect FTL, or another way to achieve FTL, but not something advanced enough to travel practically and efficiently between star clusters yet. If so, it's likely their entire species/empire resides in the Heleus cluster, and therefore there are no ...extra-clusterial reinforcements to call. Another possibility is that we're not even facing the full might of the Kett, but rather just a single group of them who are either very xenophobic, won't let anything get between them and Remnant tech, or both - and that the rest of them could be perfectly amicable. Has there ever been a limit on the range two Mass Relays could be at? So for example a link between clusters is not too far (for Mass Relays) but could they as well be put between galaxies in order to link the Milky Way and Andromeda? I kind of feel like the Nexus is under construction during the voyage to Andromeda and will finalize construction within Andromeda and become a Mass Relay connecting the two galaxies. I would hope a major decision in Andromeda would be if we want the relay to connect back home or not. 600 years gives a lot of time for AI's or whoever to keep investigating and finalize how to recreate a Mass Relay, not to mention they'll still receive transmissions from the Milky Way, although obviously the further they get the longer it will take to reach them. So they could still have updates from major investigation centers on Mass Relay tech and how to recreate it for the Nexus. A few things. 1. No, we don't know of a range limit. However, we do know that they can be used at least as far as between the Citadel and wherever the Reapers chill in Darkspace (which presumably has a "Dark Citadel" relay mirror), since that's usually how they invade. It took them about 3 years to reach the edge of the galaxy using their FTL, which is about twice as fast as ours if I recall correctly, so they must have been at least (30 lightyears per day for 3 years) 32400 lightyears away. A relay works at least that far. Though that wouldn't help much getting to and from Andromeda, you could always set up a line of 77 mass relay pairs in between and get there fairly quickly 2. I doubt the Nexus is a relay, even if it's based loosely on the Citadel. For one, no one knew the Citadel was a relay until ME1. For another, them figuring out relay tech (and not telling anyone) for the mission would dwarf any other tech "retcons", such as inventing the ODSY drives. Lastly, it would have no partner to connect to. 3. While it would only make logical sense for the Initiative to have QECs (the only real-time communication method in existence in the ME verse), they apparently don't. From a meta perspective, I get it since they'd have to adress the endings as well as a slew of other issues (political climate after ME3, advances in tech the MWers make during the Arks' 600 year journey that they'd relay to them to help etc.), it's still absolutely bonkers from an in-universe perspective not to have them (though as KirkyX probably wants me to point out, the QECs in the MW may have been destroyed during the Reaper War). Either way, I very much doubt they could crack relay tech during the journey. I know some are likely uptight about keeping the IP "pure", but I'm excited to see what types of tech we will discover. I know that we will never completely lose the connection to mass effect technology in this IP, so I'm not too worried about that. We can discover new things along the way, though, whether all of it uses the mass effect or not. The only reason I'm wary of introducing another method of FTL into the setting isn't because I want the franchise to stay "pure" relative to itself, but rather to science. Mass Effect FTL actually makes some amount of sense in physics, compared to most methods in scifi. I love that, so I don't want another version to make less sense. If they come up with something that isn't too soft, it'll be okay. And yeah it's a shame there's no mass relays. They were practically the symbol of Mass Effect. Part of the fear that this is pretty much Mass Effect In Name Only.I had this fear too, mostly fueled by Bioware's own comments about distancing ME:A from the trilogy and Shepard specifically. However, that sentiment turned out to be rather empty, and as of the last gameplay trailer, I think it looks pretty "Mass Effect-y", so that's good. and what star cluster is that? Hellius Heleus, actually, though I'm not immune to getting these new names wrong before confirmation They handwave it by saying it has an excessive amount of golden worlds in it, so that probably means there are several solar systems with multiple inhabitable planets maybe. Perhaps that will have something to do with the fact that we're in a different galaxy, so the anatomy is different, they might even make some backstory for why it is so, perhaps via the Remnant tech or whatever other ancient lore we'll learn about. I'm sorry, I'm not sure what you mean here. The anatomy? Do you mean the aliens may be very alien, or are you referring to something else?
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Post by KirkyX on Dec 10, 2016 16:39:24 GMT
THMP. TH-TH-THMP. Reminds me of something... Can't place it. I wonder what those arms on the Arks are for. Was also very surprised that the Nexus is less than half done at this point. I feel like realistically, it would be hard to construct the rest in ME:A, without a small fleet of construction vehicles. Has there ever been a limit on the range two Mass Relays could be at? So for example a link between clusters is not too far (for Mass Relays) but could they as well be put between galaxies in order to link the Milky Way and Andromeda? I kind of feel like the Nexus is under construction during the voyage to Andromeda and will finalize construction within Andromeda and become a Mass Relay connecting the two galaxies. I would hope a major decision in Andromeda would be if we want the relay to connect back home or not. 600 years gives a lot of time for AI's or whoever to keep investigating and finalize how to recreate a Mass Relay, not to mention they'll still receive transmissions from the Milky Way, although obviously the further they get the longer it will take to reach them. So they could still have updates from major investigation centers on Mass Relay tech and how to recreate it for the Nexus. A few things. 1. No, we don't know of a range limit. However, we do know that they can be used at least as far as between the Citadel and wherever the Reapers chill in Darkspace (which presumably has a "Dark Citadel" relay mirror), since that's usually how they invade. It took them at least 6 months to reach the edge of the galaxy using their FTL, which is about twice as fast as ours if I recall correctly, so they must have been at least (30 lightyears per day for 3 years) 32400 lightyears away. A relay works at least that far. Though that wouldn't help much getting to and from Andromeda, you could always set up a line of 77 mass relay pairs in between and get there fairly quickly 2. I doubt the Nexus is a relay, even if it's based loosely on the Citadel. For one, no one knew the Citadel was a relay until ME1. For another, them figuring out relay tech (and not telling anyone) for the mission would dwarf any other tech "retcons", such as inventing the ODSY drives. Lastly, it would have no partner to connect to. 3. While it would only make logical sense for the Initiative to have QECs (the only real-time communication method in existence in the ME verse), they apparently don't. From a meta perspective, I get it since they'd have to adress the endings as well as a slew of other issues (political climate after ME3, advances in tech the MWers make during the Arks' 600 year journey that they're relay to them to help etc.), it's still absolutely bonkers from an in-universe perspective not to have them. (Though as KirkyX probably wants me to point out, the QECs in the MW may have been destroyed during the Reaper War). Either way, I very much doubt they could crack relay tech during the journey. I can think of a few different scenes from across science fiction that it resembles, but the one it puts me most in mind of is pretty close to home : Anyway, I guess we'll have to wait for the Codex entry to find out what the arms are for sure - or, heck, they might never explain them; there's still bits of the Normandy's design that we don't know the purpose of - but my guess is that they're either radiators, or part of the ODSY drive system. (With some analogue on the Nexus that's too small to make out, relative to the size of the entire ship.) As for the Nexus' partially-completed state, I've seen two explanations, and come up with two more for funzies, any of which work for me: 1. They simply couldn't build a drive system powerful enough to move it at its full size, due to either resource - couldn't scrounge up enough eezo for the drive core - or technological constraints. 2. With the promise of bountiful resources in Andromeda, they decided that it'd simply be more efficient to complete construction on the Nexus there. From everything we've seen so far, the Nexus is still capable of performing its role as expedition hub even in its current state, so there's no urgent need to get the rest built. 3. They originally planned to complete the Nexus before departing for Andromeda, but the threat of the Reapers - I think it's been hinted that some people high-up in the Initiative's hierarchy may know about them? - forced them to accelerate their timetable. 4. (This ties in with the, 'Maybe it's a relay?' discussion.) The Initiative's long-term plan for establishing a link between the Milky Way and Andromeda is indeed based on the idea of turning the Nexus into a functional long-range relay, with the Initiative's Milky Way division tasked with working on its matching pair while the colonists are in-transit. Prior to leaving, the Initiative hadn't figured out relay technology, but they were close enough to be reasonably certain that they could crack it with a few hundred years of research and development. We know there wasn't much political will amongst the Citadel races to pursue relay tech, from Matriarch Aethyta--but her dialogue also suggests that, for the Asari at least, it was an attainable-enough goal to be worth at least considering. My theory is that the Initiative recruited Asari scientists who'd been looking into relay tech, and were frustrated with their government's lack of support for their research. Some of these scientists would stay behind in the Milky Way, to further research the technology and then ultimately start work on their side of the relay pair, while others would ship out with the expedition, to perform a similar role in Andromeda. The one thing I haven't decided yet is whether the Andromeda-bound scientists would remain awake for the voyage or not. On one level, it'd certainly be efficient for them to do so--the expedition would arrive in Andromeda with its side of the relay equation already worked out, ready to start construction on the other half of the Nexus. On another, though, I'm really not sure they'd be willing to commit to spending 600 years - a long time even for an Asari - cooped up on a starship in the intergalactic void, with no company beyond their fellow researchers, and no way out. I mean, for some scientists, that'd probably be like a dream come true--but for most, it sounds more like a nightmare. Of course, the arrival of the Reapers fucks with this plan in all sorts of ways, but - so far as we're aware - the Initiative doesn't know about them, and so wouldn't plan around them. Heck, even if the Initiative's leadership were to get wind of their existence shortly before they were due to leave - say, Jien Garson took Shepard at her word, and didn't buy the Council's story about Sovereign - it's not like they'd cancel the one hope they have of getting the heck out of dodge, even if they had no sure way back. Anyways, my idea for Andromeda 2 is that they try to fire up the Nexus relay, but discover that there's no matching pair in the Milky Way, and so then decide to repurpose it into a big ol' mass effect slingshot, used to launch exploration craft towards other star clusters within Andromeda. (The idea being that these ships would be equipped with ODSY drives, so they could make the journey back to Heleus by themselves in a matter of months or years--the slingshot'd just cut out one half of the trip.) (For the record, I expect precisely none of this to be in any sense accurate; I just enjoy thinking about it. ) As for how they'd go about constructing the other half... Well, I'd imagine they have the necessary equipment/ships stored aboard the Nexus itself? It's not like construction/repair craft have to be that big, after all--in fact, generally you want them to be pretty small relative to what they're building, like the workbees in Star Trek: ... "Though that wouldn't help much getting to and from Andromeda, you could always set up a line of 77 mass relay pairs in between and get there fairly quickly " (I'm actually kinda hoping this is a complete coincidence, 'cause that'd be even better. ) And hey, I only brought it up as an idea once! Oh, and finally, count me in for all the derelict stations and ships! I love that sort of thing. (Hoping we also run into some very much not derelict ships too, though. And get to talk to them! )
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Post by Element Zero on Dec 10, 2016 18:21:19 GMT
BansheeOwnage , there's always so much fun stuff in your posts. There is no way I can quote that, since the mobile version of the site has a word-count limit before it freaks out. I'll try to reply in an organized way. I agree that meeting only a small number of sentient species in the Heleus Cluster makes sense. It's both sensible in terms of both in-game logic and real world resources. We won't really know who are the natives and the immigrants until we get the game. I'm curious to see just how "gone" the remnant really are. The best guess I've seen for the purpose of the Ark's arms is that they are the visible part of the Hydrogen Scoop. I'm sure the Codex wil give us a definitive answer. The Nexus and Arks were escorted out of the Milky Way by a fighter escort, but they traveled to Andromeda alone, defended only by shields. If they wished to travel through Andromeda, one day, and don't find a more immediate means than the ODSY drive, they'd have to look into a rotating fighter corps, I'd imagine. Six months on duty, then into cryosleep, next team up, and so on, through however many teams they support. It sucks for the fighters who age while everyone sleeps, but someone has to do the job, and that's slightly more realistic scifi than we've ever had in Mass Effect. Agreed on the "big remnant thing". It could be practically anything. They always called it a vault when showing the pic, which tells us nothing of its original purpose, really. That just means it contains tech and presents a challenge. As to introducing new forms of tech, I wasn't even necessarily suggesting that many or most be unrelated to the mass effect. The mass effect is the obvious, and possibly only, means of working around the Light Speed barrier. There are many possibilities yet untapped, though. The reapers were incredibly advanced, but they were also incredibly stagnant. They had been doing the same thing for hundreds of millions of years. They harvested inferior species that were never allowed to even remotely challenge them. They had no drive to innovate or develop new tech because their current tech suited their purposes. We could discover entirely new technologies, including entirely new applications of the mass effect, in Andromeda. I'm sort of counting on it, since anything less would be ridiculous. There is no way that the remnant and reapers developed exactly in parallel, for example. There must be divergent ideas. As Legion would've said, "Technology is not a straight line."
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Dec 10, 2016 18:47:08 GMT
The Nexus and Arks were escorted out of the Milky Way by a fighter escort, but they traveled to Andromeda alone, defended only by shields. If they wished to travel through Andromeda, one day, and don't find a more immediate means than the ODSY drive, they'd have to look into a rotating fighter corps, I'd imagine. Six months on duty, then into cryosleep, next team up, and so on, through however many teams they support. It sucks for the fighters who age while everyone sleeps, but someone has to do the job, and that's slightly more realistic scifi than we've ever had in Mass Effect. That's why if you have people who have to be awake, you go with synthetics rather than organics. Time is of no consequence to the former. Think David in Prometheus.
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Post by Element Zero on Dec 10, 2016 18:51:49 GMT
The Nexus and Arks were escorted out of the Milky Way by a fighter escort, but they traveled to Andromeda alone, defended only by shields. If they wished to travel through Andromeda, one day, and don't find a more immediate means than the ODSY drive, they'd have to look into a rotating fighter corps, I'd imagine. Six months on duty, then into cryosleep, next team up, and so on, through however many teams they support. It sucks for the fighters who age while everyone sleeps, but someone has to do the job, and that's slightly more realistic scifi than we've ever had in Mass Effect. That's why if you have people who have to be awake, you go with synthetics rather than organics. Time is of no consequence to the former. Think David in Prometheus. We're going to need more SAMs... (Jokes aside, I sure SAM is a fairly unique/limited run.) Synthetics are actually the perfect answer. Rotating crew aboard the Nexus and Arks, as usual, with synthetic pilots for the escort fighters. If you feel that you can't trust synthetics, you go with inferior VIs. Either way, I'm sure people start popping out of cryosleep if and when an attack comes.
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
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Post by Sifr on Dec 10, 2016 19:38:15 GMT
And yeah it's a shame there's no mass relays. They were practically the symbol of Mass Effect. Part of the fear that this is pretty much Mass Effect In Name Only. Isn't the "mass effect" more the staple of the Mass Effect universe? Sure the Mass Relays were the most prominent example in the original trilogy, but mass effect technology is still going to be ever-present in MEA, since it serves as the foundation of all biotics and technology that the colonists use, whether it be shields, weapons, ship drives etc. That's not to say we might discover that one of the species in Andromeda use a completely different technology and means for FTL travel. But unless it's superior in every single way, or has as many practical applications, I think we can say that the mass effect will remain firmly ingrained in the minds of all the Milky Way species as the go-to standard for technology. Besides, the colonists might eventually consider building Relays in Andromeda to facilitate easier travel, rather than having to rely on the ODSY drive.
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I was called Ryder before it was cool... ...I'd love to, you know, be social and things.
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Post by BansheeOwnage on Dec 16, 2016 3:31:17 GMT
I can think of a few different scenes from across science fiction that it resembles, but the one it puts me most in mind of is pretty close to home : *The fleets arrive snip* Anyway, I guess we'll have to wait for the Codex entry to find out what the arms are for sure - or, heck, they might never explain them; there's still bits of the Normandy's design that we don't know the purpose of - but my guess is that they're either radiators, or part of the ODSY drive system. (With some analogue on the Nexus that's too small to make out, relative to the size of the entire ship.) As for the Nexus' partially-completed state, I've seen two explanations, and come up with two more for funzies, any of which work for me: 1. They simply couldn't build a drive system powerful enough to move it at its full size, due to either resource - couldn't scrounge up enough eezo for the drive core - or technological constraints. 2. With the promise of bountiful resources in Andromeda, they decided that it'd simply be more efficient to complete construction on the Nexus there. From everything we've seen so far, the Nexus is still capable of performing its role as expedition hub even in its current state, so there's no urgent need to get the rest built. 3. They originally planned to complete the Nexus before departing for Andromeda, but the threat of the Reapers - I think it's been hinted that some people high-up in the Initiative's hierarchy may know about them? - forced them to accelerate their timetable. 4. (This ties in with the, 'Maybe it's a relay?' discussion.) The Initiative's long-term plan for establishing a link between the Milky Way and Andromeda is indeed based on the idea of turning the Nexus into a functional long-range relay, with the Initiative's Milky Way division tasked with working on its matching pair while the colonists are in-transit. Prior to leaving, the Initiative hadn't figured out relay technology, but they were close enough to be reasonably certain that they could crack it with a few hundred years of research and development. We know there wasn't much political will amongst the Citadel races to pursue relay tech, from Matriarch Aethyta--but her dialogue also suggests that, for the Asari at least, it was an attainable-enough goal to be worth at least considering. My theory is that the Initiative recruited Asari scientists who'd been looking into relay tech, and were frustrated with their government's lack of support for their research. Some of these scientists would stay behind in the Milky Way, to further research the technology and then ultimately start work on their side of the relay pair, while others would ship out with the expedition, to perform a similar role in Andromeda. The one thing I haven't decided yet is whether the Andromeda-bound scientists would remain awake for the voyage or not. On one level, it'd certainly be efficient for them to do so--the expedition would arrive in Andromeda with its side of the relay equation already worked out, ready to start construction on the other half of the Nexus. On another, though, I'm really not sure they'd be willing to commit to spending 600 years - a long time even for an Asari - cooped up on a starship in the intergalactic void, with no company beyond their fellow researchers, and no way out. I mean, for some scientists, that'd probably be like a dream come true--but for most, it sounds more like a nightmare. Of course, the arrival of the Reapers fucks with this plan in all sorts of ways, but - so far as we're aware - the Initiative doesn't know about them, and so wouldn't plan around them. Heck, even if the Initiative's leadership were to get wind of their existence shortly before they were due to leave - say, Jien Garson took Shepard at her word, and didn't buy the Council's story about Sovereign - it's not like they'd cancel the one hope they have of getting the heck out of dodge, even if they had no sure way back. Anyways, my idea for Andromeda 2 is that they try to fire up the Nexus relay, but discover that there's no matching pair in the Milky Way, and so then decide to repurpose it into a big ol' mass effect slingshot, used to launch exploration craft towards other star clusters within Andromeda. (The idea being that these ships would be equipped with ODSY drives, so they could make the journey back to Heleus by themselves in a matter of months or years--the slingshot'd just cut out one half of the trip.) (For the record, I expect precisely none of this to be in any sense accurate; I just enjoy thinking about it. ) As for how they'd go about constructing the other half... Well, I'd imagine they have the necessary equipment/ships stored aboard the Nexus itself? It's not like construction/repair craft have to be that big, after all--in fact, generally you want them to be pretty small relative to what they're building, like the workbees in Star Trek: *Bee snip* ... "Though that wouldn't help much getting to and from Andromeda, you could always set up a line of 77 mass relay pairs in between and get there fairly quickly " *Stargate snip* (I'm actually kinda hoping this is a complete coincidence, 'cause that'd be even better. ) And hey, I only brought it up as an idea once! *Derelict snips* Oh, and finally, count me in for all the derelict stations and ships! I love that sort of thing. (Hoping we also run into some very much not derelict ships too, though. And get to talk to them! ) Yeah, I was probably just thinking of that. Do you ever think about that random pilot in that scene? He gets a lot of screentime for a nobody. Totally the secret hero of the Milky Way That's true, they could be radiators to dump excess heat etc., or hydrogen ram-scoops as Element Zero suggests below. Both good ideas. I hope they're explained, because I like reading about lore/technical stuff, but it's no big deal. 1. That's a good point about mass. If I recall correctly, Reapers needed ridiculously large eezo cores in order to negate their mass, so moving something much larger is actually pretty crazy already. 2. A fair assumption, but it does beg the question: If it already serves its purpose(s), what's the need for constructing the other 60% of it? If it's just more room for people/labs etc., well... that's cool I guess, but I just wonder if those resources would be better spent on establishing colonies. 3. That could also work. Emphasis on the "accelerate" though, since they wouldn't have known about them when the project began. I think it would make sense for at least someone involved to... fear the Reapers Even if they couldn't convince the others of their threat. 4. Hmm... Well, I suppose it all comes down to whether or not they could crack relay tech in 600 years. In the MW, sure. Cooped up on a starship with naught but calculations and simulations? Maybe, but you'd probably want to test these things extensively if you can. Because it is possible though, it's up to the writers, since fiction is basically built on the improbable, and it's not like breakthroughs don't happen in real life of course. Eureka! Asari would be a good choice, especially since as you said, they'd probably have someone working on it already in some fashion and therefore experience. While krogan wouldn't, krogan scientists would be an even better choice for this task, like Nakmor Kesh*. It would certainly be nightmare-level for many people, I agree. Perhaps they would stay in cryo most of the time and have VIs do most of the work, while they're in charge of creative things. If so, basically anyone could assist. So, even if they do, without QECs it would take 1200 years minimum to properly establish a relay pair, so your idea of repurposing it into a slingshot instead could work. It would depend when Andromeda 2 is set, though, since it would be a good idea to have a very established homeworld/territory before doing it all again, but I suppose exploratory craft wouldn't be much of an investment of population. Ha, I understand. I like speculating and discussing these things too, even if it's academic. *I feel like I should point out somewhere that Nakmor is her clan name. I forgot this at first, so I figured I might not be the only one, and I haven't seen it mentioned. Yeah, I thought about something like that, too as well as storing fighters (or perhaps multi-purpose craft that can build/repair and fight). I'm not saying it couldn't be done, but one of the things that I wondered about was the timing. It sounds like we'll be building the Nexus over the course of the game, probably finishing it at or near the end. We have no idea how long the main story will be in-universe, so no idea if it would make sense, I was just wondering about it. Haha, I've never seen Stargate nor any posts suggesting that, so yeah, it was a coincidence Apparently you can't think of anything first anymore, even if you do think of it on your own. Not that that example was particularly complicated or anything, but still Definitely to both derelict ships and crewed ships we can interact with, for reasons we've gone over before. And don't forget the derelict Reaper, of course. That was creepy. If they do have some, I wonder what they'll be, since they've done the mind-bending sort of thing on the Reaper and the "You're trapped while this VI tries to kill you" thing on that research station. BansheeOwnage , there's always so much fun stuff in your posts. There is no way I can quote that, since the mobile version of the site has a word-count limit before it freaks out. I'll try to reply in an organized way. I agree that meeting only a small number of sentient species in the Heleus Cluster makes sense. It's both sensible in terms of both in-game logic and real world resources. We won't really know who are the natives and the immigrants until we get the game. I'm curious to see just how "gone" the remnant really are. The best guess I've seen for the purpose of the Ark's arms is that they are the visible part of the Hydrogen Scoop. I'm sure the Codex wil give us a definitive answer. The Nexus and Arks were escorted out of the Milky Way by a fighter escort, but they traveled to Andromeda alone, defended only by shields. If they wished to travel through Andromeda, one day, and don't find a more immediate means than the ODSY drive, they'd have to look into a rotating fighter corps, I'd imagine. Six months on duty, then into cryosleep, next team up, and so on, through however many teams they support. It sucks for the fighters who age while everyone sleeps, but someone has to do the job, and that's slightly more realistic scifi than we've ever had in Mass Effect. Agreed on the "big remnant thing". It could be practically anything. They always called it a vault when showing the pic, which tells us nothing of its original purpose, really. That just means it contains tech and presents a challenge. As to introducing new forms of tech, I wasn't even necessarily suggesting that many or most be unrelated to the mass effect. The mass effect is the obvious, and possibly only, means of working around the Light Speed barrier. There are many possibilities yet untapped, though. The reapers were incredibly advanced, but they were also incredibly stagnant. They had been doing the same thing for hundreds of millions of years. They harvested inferior species that were never allowed to even remotely challenge them. They had no drive to innovate or develop new tech because their current tech suited their purposes. We could discover entirely new technologies, including entirely new applications of the mass effect, in Andromeda. I'm sort of counting on it, since anything less would be ridiculous. There is no way that the remnant and reapers developed exactly in parallel, for example. There must be divergent ideas. As Legion would've said, "Technology is not a straight line." That's a nice thing to say, thanks! I enjoy reading your posts, too I'm also curious about that. Will they be as "gone" as the Protheans? Even then, we got to meet a live one and a couple of informative VIs. I look forward to diving into the mystery. Uh, but I hope PeeBee doesn't get to discover everything about them I want my Ryder to be able to study/provide insight for once instead of looking dumb and waiting for someone else to figure it all out. Good idea about being hydrogen scoops I suppose I always thought the Arks/Nexus would get a small fleet of cruisers or destroyers (probably not dreadnaughts, and the Arks might be able to fill that role anyway) as permanent escort, since even that still isn't a lot and you don't know what you'll find in Andromeda. Obviously they're not likely to run into any threats during the voyage there, so only shields is fine, but I just think it's odd to have such lax defenses when there. It's possible there is indeed a contingent of fighters inside the Arks/Nexus, which is certainly better than nothing, but not much. Although I suppose there are probably at least 4 frigates, one for each Pathfinder. I'm curious as to how we'll fight the Kett in space, since they probably massively outnumber us. Rotating shifts for fighters could happen, they don't really need them while in FTL since it's practically impossible to be engaged there. But the concept in general is certainly something realistic as discussed with KirkyX above, for things other than pilots. Ah, gotcha. You're right, the Reapers were very stagnant. That fact, combined with Andromeda having no Reapers to funnel its species "along the paths they desire", as well as technology not being a straight line is definitely a recipe for new and interesting Andromedan tech. Should be cool to see exactly what. And I'm also hoping we see new applications of mass effect from the MW species themselves, at least compared to what we've seen in action directly in the first trilogy. The examples I like to use are negating mass while using the jump-pack to turn it into a jetpack (technically, you could achieve orbit like this ), or - using the same principle as ME weapons - lowering the mass of your arm/fist to punch faster, but at the apogee of your strike, increasing mass to apply more force. You could do similar stuff for crazy movement/parkour. Though that would be challenging to implement in gameplay, you could do it in cutscenes. Though second example may already be in-use as a standard strength-enhancing technique without being detailed in the lore. I'd imagine on-board VIs and omnitool calibration for each individual would be required, but that kind of stuff is standard. I just want the writers to think long and hard about the potential applications of this awesome technology, because it can make for some absolutely awesome and unconventional stuff. If you need help, feel free to hire me as a consultant, Bioware Oh, and also because I really want the chance to play Ryder as a very smart fighter, in addition to being skilled. The Nexus and Arks were escorted out of the Milky Way by a fighter escort, but they traveled to Andromeda alone, defended only by shields. If they wished to travel through Andromeda, one day, and don't find a more immediate means than the ODSY drive, they'd have to look into a rotating fighter corps, I'd imagine. Six months on duty, then into cryosleep, next team up, and so on, through however many teams they support. It sucks for the fighters who age while everyone sleeps, but someone has to do the job, and that's slightly more realistic scifi than we've ever had in Mass Effect. That's why if you have people who have to be awake, you go with synthetics rather than organics. Time is of no consequence to the former. Think David in Prometheus. Synthetics would definitely be the best choice. I'd like to know if the Initiative will (openly) use AIs and not just VIs. They'll probably use them, but I they might be disguised like EDI was. Hope not, though. For most things, VIs would work, like the fighter contingent or running calculations. You wouldn't even need mobile platforms to fly the fighters; they could operate as drones until the need arose. They could similarly wake personnel when needed for experiments or general creative thinking (but an AI could do that, too).
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elementzero
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by Element Zero on Dec 16, 2016 7:21:48 GMT
BansheeOwnage , you're right about generally not needing fighters when in FTL. I was thinking in terms of rapid response, and not having to scramble fighters if attacked. There are issues with my thinking, though. No one in ME yet uses gravity-well projectors to pull vessels out of FTL, and they'd need to anticipate your trajectory even if such a thing existed; so attacks in FTL are effectively impossible, for now. That being the case, the cost to the crew wouldn't be worth keeping them awake, even in spurts. We could just awaken them and have them ready to launch upon exiting FTL. It's cool to read your ideas for mass effect tech. I had some of the exact ideas, and others, when brainstorming around this. I had lots of ideas concerning enhanced mobility, negating fall and impact damage, and so on. I think my stuff strayed more into "what if" rather than "what would be good for the game"? I doubt jet-packing into orbit would work, since you'd likely run out of fuel first, fighting friction and all; but who knows how high you could get, with a good ME field? Then, you could essentially negate the falling damage at the end by negating your mass. (You'd still fall quickly, unlike those stupid scenes with floating Asari. Ugh. Mass does not determine the acceleration of gravity.) I suspect that SAM may be a full AI developed to assist the Pathfinders. Of course, our SAM would become increasingly unique, in that case. (I'm assuming the AI would be housed aboard Tempest, with each Pathfinder perhaps having his or her own. We'll see about all of that.) As long as they were quiet about any AI development and/or usage until after they exited the Milky Way, I imagine they can do whatever they wish. There is zero authority to whom to answer in Andromeda. I'm tired and starting to ramble. Time for sleep.
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Post by Lebanese Dude on Dec 16, 2016 21:11:32 GMT
I'm looking forward to all the space porn in this game. Most accurate description I have ever seen
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Post by dropzofcrimzon on Dec 17, 2016 1:32:33 GMT
Ok....more pertinent question...
So assuming this star cluster is composed of say 10 solar systems...how many planets that can sustain life will we find? And how many with sentient life....and how many life forms with comparable tech?
Are the devs going to forget the scale of a galaxy and how spread out viable planets could be let alone the development of higher life forms?
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Dec 17, 2016 1:59:50 GMT
Ok....more pertinent question... So assuming this star cluster is composed of say 10 solar systems...how many planets that can sustain life will we find? And how many with sentient life....and how many life forms with comparable tech? Are the devs going to forget the scale of a galaxy and how spread out viable planets could be let alone the development of higher life forms? There is no way the cluster will only have ten star systems. Open Clusters are the most sparse of stars and even they at the minimum consist of hundreds of star systems.
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Post by dropzofcrimzon on Dec 17, 2016 2:31:31 GMT
Ok....more pertinent question... So assuming this star cluster is composed of say 10 solar systems...how many planets that can sustain life will we find? And how many with sentient life....and how many life forms with comparable tech? Are the devs going to forget the scale of a galaxy and how spread out viable planets could be let alone the development of higher life forms? There is no way the cluster will only have ten star systems. Open Clusters are the most sparse of stars and even they at the minimum consist of hundreds of star systems. ok...but then how feasible would be travelling between them without the small relays to allow such travel?
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Dec 17, 2016 2:36:15 GMT
There is no way the cluster will only have ten star systems. Open Clusters are the most sparse of stars and even they at the minimum consist of hundreds of star systems. ok...but then how feasible would be travelling between them without the small relays to allow such travel? Well, star clusters tend to max out at around 30 light years across. In the Shepard Trilogy ships are able to do around 25 light years before needing to discharge, so you can nearly cross the largest of star clusters without ever stopping, and within are the hundreds if not thousands and even hundreds of thousands of star systems, the majority of which would have planets you can discharge in. Mass Relays were never needed for traveling within a cluster, but rather if you wanted to go from one star cluster to another star cluster.
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The Twilight God
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate
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thetwilightgod
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate
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Post by The Twilight God on Dec 17, 2016 8:36:06 GMT
The Mass Relays were only needed for long distance FTL travel. Secondary Mass Relays allowed a ship to travel hundreds of light years to another Mass Relay in an instant, and Primary Mass Relays allowed the same for thousands of light years. This allowed clusters to be connected. Once you got within a cluster and were doing short distance travel, you used your ship's Mass Effect drive which allows a ship of our cycle to travel between 12 to 15 light years in a day and overall about 25 light years before needing to stop and discharge the static buildup. The people of the Andromeda Initiative developed the ODSY Drive to allow the Nexus and four Arks to no longer need to discharge and instead harness that energy to allow the trip to Andromeda without Mass Relays though at the speed of our drives, hence the 600 years it takes for us to get there. I am sad that there will be no Mass Relays in Mass Effect: Andromeda and potentially never again. They were like the icon of the franchise for me. One of the long term goals of the Andromeda Initiative is to establish a relay in the Helius Cluster that links to the Milky Way. That probably won't show up in the game, but since a relay was mentioned they could show up in sequels. Unless the Andromeda colonists find a better means of travelling between star clusters, they'd have to build relays if they eventually expand beyond the Helius cluster as well. The Nexus is probably a one way relay to the Citadel relay. Like the ME1 conduit. Bioware will be like, "Yeah, see we know how to make relays so ME3 ending doesn't destroy civilization. They'll just make new relays like Hackett said."
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Post by dropzofcrimzon on Dec 17, 2016 13:20:12 GMT
ok...but then how feasible would be travelling between them without the small relays to allow such travel? Well, star clusters tend to max out at around 30 light years across. In the Shepard Trilogy ships are able to do around 25 light years before needing to discharge, so you can nearly cross the largest of star clusters without ever stopping, and within are the hundreds if not thousands and even hundreds of thousands of star systems, the majority of which would have planets you can discharge in. Mass Relays were never needed for traveling within a cluster, but rather if you wanted to go from one star cluster to another star cluster. uhm...a star cluster is far less than 100 stars if I remember correctly...of course I could be wrong. Do we have a codex entry on that?
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Dec 17, 2016 20:56:51 GMT
Well, star clusters tend to max out at around 30 light years across. In the Shepard Trilogy ships are able to do around 25 light years before needing to discharge, so you can nearly cross the largest of star clusters without ever stopping, and within are the hundreds if not thousands and even hundreds of thousands of star systems, the majority of which would have planets you can discharge in. Mass Relays were never needed for traveling within a cluster, but rather if you wanted to go from one star cluster to another star cluster. uhm...a star cluster is far less than 100 stars if I remember correctly...of course I could be wrong. Do we have a codex entry on that? Not a Codex entry. I'm using what astronomers classify as a star cluster. In the past games we only went to a few stars in a star cluster since we had an entire galaxy to explore. You see in those clusters images of countless more stars that we just ignore in those games.
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Post by dropzofcrimzon on Dec 17, 2016 23:12:42 GMT
Fine, even in one star cluster tho how many viable planets will there be? Also, 12 light years according to ME1 are a day's cruise in a regular transport.
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