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Post by KonguZya on Dec 18, 2016 5:09:52 GMT
Is anyone else planning on headcanoning Andromeda to take place after ME3’s ending? By that I mean, pretending that the Andromeda Initiative was started several years after the trilogy’s ending. People were already tearing into the holes that Andromeda creates in the lore, from the impossibility of the voyage itself to the unlikely size of the Nexus. Now we’ve see that there are also several weapons in one gameplay trailer alone that shouldn’t be present since they were created during the Reaper War, and based on that and the focus on multiplayer the devs have mentioned, I’m guessing there will be every single ME3 weapon so that means there will be even more lore-breakers. The armor is also very different from anything we’ve seen before, and while one could argue that it’s supposed to represent civilian space suits, in the trilogy we’ve seen civilians wearing ME1-style combat hardsuits into space all the time. It seems more likely that this radically different armor would be developed post-ME3.
Destroy is my canon ending anyways, and I think the Andromeda Initiative would make a whole lot more sense taking place after it. With a bunch of Reaper corpses around to study, it would be much more likely that the Milky Way races would be able to engineer ships advanced enough to make the trip through dark space to Andromeda. Control could even work, explaining the Andromeda Initiative as a group that wants to live in a galaxy free of the Reapers. It’s a stretch, but I suppose even Synthesis could be possible, if the AI is formed from a luddite group that managed to remove their green glowing “upgrades” and flee to another galaxy--not the most likely scenario, but I think most of us can agree that Synthesis is already the most nonsensical thing in Mass Effect anyways, so I don’t even bother with it, personally.
Unless there are some really plot-integral details that necessitate these out of place, super-advanced Arks and Nexus leaving oddly just before the Reaper War, I’ll stick with my headcanon instead, because it just makes a hell of a lot more sense. In fact, I would say it makes the premise plausible at all to begin with. What do you guys think?
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zarrokhai
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Post by zarrokhai on Dec 18, 2016 5:14:28 GMT
No matter how Bioware tried to work around ME:A, they were always going to somehow break the existing lore. I'm just glad that the path they've chosen stops us from revisiting the ME 3 endings.
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Post by goishen on Dec 18, 2016 5:28:17 GMT
There's really no need. You're in another galaxy.
I think that this is the main thing that they wanna get away from. Not only the endings, but the endless discussions of the endings. Mistakes were made. But, here we are in a whole new galaxy, Stranger In A Strange Land. You are the alien. And, people keep bringing up the endings, expecting us to have discussions about it.
What would be cool is if we meet an alien race that is in a familiar position to us as what we were when we were with the council. Meaning, meet a young (only been with them for what? 20 years?) upstart, highly motivated, highly ambitious, and they say that the Andromedans are doing it wrong. Thoughts?
That, in my opinion, would be a much better discussion.
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dmc1001
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Post by dmc1001 on Dec 18, 2016 5:38:33 GMT
I don't think I'm going to headcanon a timeline change. Any weapon that was created during the Reaper War could easily have been a fully functioning prototype that, just one year later (if it fits between ME2 and ME3) was being mass produced. Not much of a problem there.
I'll go with poor lore over my headcanon in this case. Sure, I know in my case Destroy always happens and Shepard always survives to marry Kaidan. However, the fate of Shepard, Kaidan and anyone else is irrelevant. My headcanon is that any Reaper tech is immediately destroyed. Sure, we know the Reapers, husks, etc are all dead post-Destroy but I wouldn't trust that they can't somehow still indoctrinate. Remember, even dead Reapers indoctrinate organics. Better to annihilate the tech completely than trust that it would be safe to use for the AI.
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Post by KonguZya on Dec 18, 2016 5:39:17 GMT
Hmm, those are some very fair points about how it's best if we all just avoid the endings entirely. I was just trying to imagine MEA in a way that makes sense with what we already know, since from what I've seen, most of the valid criticisms are regarding lore inconsistencies.
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Post by Element Zero on Dec 18, 2016 5:39:55 GMT
Why would anyone need to build their own narrative when we've yet to experience BioWare's narrative? The armchair devs and writers here feel that they can do better. What else is new? I'll wait and see what they've built before I start constructing elaborate personal "head-canons" to "make it work". I doubt such extra efforts will be necessary.
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Post by chris2365 on Dec 18, 2016 5:41:54 GMT
Is anyone else planning on headcanoning Andromeda to take place after ME3’s ending? By that I mean, pretending that the Andromeda Initiative was started several years after the trilogy’s ending. People were already tearing into the holes that Andromeda creates in the lore, from the impossibility of the voyage itself to the unlikely size of the Nexus. Now we’ve see that there are also several weapons in one gameplay trailer alone that shouldn’t be present since they were created during the Reaper War, and based on that and the focus on multiplayer the devs have mentioned, I’m guessing there will be every single ME3 weapon so that means there will be even more lore-breakers. The armor is also very different from anything we’ve seen before, and while one could argue that it’s supposed to represent civilian space suits, in the trilogy we’ve seen civilians wearing ME1-style combat hardsuits into space all the time. It seems more likely that this radically different armor would be developed post-ME3. With regards to ME3 weapons being present in Andromeda, there's a way I proposed in another thread some time ago that addresses this issue. Basically, there's no way that a weapon can go from concept/design to final product in a few months. When the weapon descriptions say that these weapons were created during the Reaper War, what they really mean was that they saw mass production during the Reaper War. The ME3 weapons were obviously designed before ME3 even started. In that case, the schematics for the ME3 weapons must have existed around the time the Arks were preparing to leave. It's very possible that weapon manufacturers decided to give the Andromeda Initiative access to their latest designs as a show of good faith and good luck with their challenges in a new galaxy. Then, once they arrived in Andromeda, the engineers on board completed the designs/testing for the ME3 weapons and began mass producing them. And even if the weapon manufacturers weren't willing to give the Andromeda Initiative the weapons directly, we also can't forget that the Andromeda Initiative has Alec Ryder, one of the best known and most famous N7's out there. Surely, an N7 like him could get access to N7 weapon schematics like the Piranha, Valiant, etc. That would solve that problem pretty easily. As far as I am concerned, the ME3 weapons in Andromeda are the least of our worries when it comes to plot holes / lore inconsistencies  |
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Post by dmc1001 on Dec 18, 2016 5:44:19 GMT
Then again, I'm pretty easygoing with this stuff. I wasn't majorly upset about nearly anything that occurred throughout the trilogy. It's my favorite game series to date. I'm not so perfect myself and don't expect the devs to be any different. I can gloss over some inconsistencies (most of which I've found to be minor) in order to enjoy rather than be perpetually unhappy about what's in front of me. I have definite limits in this area (like books that I'll put down after maybe a dozen pages and never resume due to poor writing, or movies so bad I stop watching) but I don't feel anything in ME to date has come close to them.
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Post by KonguZya on Dec 18, 2016 5:45:47 GMT
I don't think I'm going to headcanon a timeline change. Any weapon that was created during the Reaper War could easily have been a fully functioning prototype that, just one year later (if it fits between ME2 and ME3) was being mass produced. Not much of a problem there. I'll go with poor lore over my headcanon in this case. Sure, I know in my case Destroy always happens and Shepard always survives to marry Kaidan. However, the fate of Shepard, Kaidan and anyone else is irrelevant. My headcanon is that any Reaper tech is immediately destroyed. Sure, we know the Reapers, husks, etc are all dead post-Destroy but I wouldn't trust that they can't somehow still indoctrinate. Remember, even dead Reapers indoctrinate organics. Better to annihilate the tech completely than trust that it would be safe to use for the AI. It's a bit off-topic but I completely agree about Reaper tech and indoctrination. I would personally want to leave even the Citadel abandoned in a state of disrepair above Earth, I was just trying to find a more plausible solution to the problems people have identified. The "prototype" argument for the weapons is pretty weak I think, especially for example the Piranha, which the codex entry says was developed specifically for the physically weaker races to deal with hordes of husks. "Poor lore" is better than no lore though, I guess. |
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Post by Element Zero on Dec 18, 2016 5:46:49 GMT
Hmm, those are some very fair points about how it's best if we all just avoid the endings entirely. I was just trying to imagine MEA in a way that makes sense with what we already know, since from what I've seen, most of the valid criticisms are regarding lore inconsistencies. We always knew there would be a few hiccups, here and there; but they've actually done a fairly smooth job with the transition, in my opinion. The circular debates that go on for dozens of pages across numerous threads are mostly hot air, offering very little in the way of useful criticism. They could've said what they've said in a single post, as most of us already did years ago. If you spend too much time in those rants threads, you'll go mad. The Ai has sketchy motivations, but those might be explained in-game. The tech has been addressed reasonably well. The rest is unrevealed. 98% of the game has yet to be seen or discussed. It's too early to be concerned about "head-canons". |
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Post by goishen on Dec 18, 2016 6:04:37 GMT
Hmm, those are some very fair points about how it's best if we all just avoid the endings entirely. I was just trying to imagine MEA in a way that makes sense with what we already know, since from what I've seen, most of the valid criticisms are regarding lore inconsistencies. Well, lore inconsistencies are just part of the makeup of a long running series. For example. In The Southern Vampire Mysteries, it has Sookie Stackhouse (yes, from Trueblood, luckily the books came before Trueblood) who in all terms is uneducated. Not really stupid, just uneducated. In one of her books it has a Russian Czar Prince from like 1918 and Sookie knew exactly who he was. It was at that point that I stopped reading the books. It just shut me down. Disconnected me from everything. I couldn't believe what I couldn't believe what I was reading. It's okay to fall out of love with things. Another example, I loved The Hobbit. Couldn't get past the first hundred pages of The Lord Of The Rings. |
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Post by KonguZya on Dec 18, 2016 6:10:11 GMT
Hmm, those are some very fair points about how it's best if we all just avoid the endings entirely. I was just trying to imagine MEA in a way that makes sense with what we already know, since from what I've seen, most of the valid criticisms are regarding lore inconsistencies. We always knew there would be a few hiccups, here and there; but they've actually done a fairly smooth job with the transition, in my opinion. The circular debates that go on for dozens of pages across numerous threads are mostly hot air, offering very little in the way of useful criticism. They could've said what they've said in a single post, as most of us already did years ago. If you spend too much time in those rants threads, you'll go mad. The Ai has sketchy motivations, but those might be explained in-game. The tech has been addressed reasonably well. The rest is unrevealed. 98% of the game has yet to be seen or discussed. It's too early to be concerned about "head-canons". Still, I think it's valid to critique the 2% that has been shown. Don't get me wrong, I'm going to buy the game and enjoy it and give it a fair chance at explaining things. I'm not one of these people saying it's the worst thing ever and calling for a boycott. From what we've seen so far, I've been left wanting a better explanation. That could change once the game is out, or it might not. It's fun to think about in the meantime, and I think the criticisms that have been expressed are mostly valid and not just rants for the sake of negativity. I think they show that people hold Bioware and Mass Effect to a high, or at least consistent standard. |
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Post by Element Zero on Dec 18, 2016 6:42:38 GMT
We always knew there would be a few hiccups, here and there; but they've actually done a fairly smooth job with the transition, in my opinion. The circular debates that go on for dozens of pages across numerous threads are mostly hot air, offering very little in the way of useful criticism. They could've said what they've said in a single post, as most of us already did years ago. If you spend too much time in those rants threads, you'll go mad. The Ai has sketchy motivations, but those might be explained in-game. The tech has been addressed reasonably well. The rest is unrevealed. 98% of the game has yet to be seen or discussed. It's too early to be concerned about "head-canons". Still, I think it's valid to critique the 2% that has been shown. Don't get me wrong, I'm going to buy the game and enjoy it and give it a fair chance at explaining things. I'm not one of these people saying it's the worst thing ever and calling for a boycott. From what we've seen so far, I've been left wanting a better explanation. That could change once the game is out, or it might not. It's fun to think about in the meantime, and I think the criticisms that have been expressed are mostly valid and not just rants for the sake of negativity. I think they show that people hold Bioware and Mass Effect to a high, or at least consistent standard. I probably should've waited to see how the thread developed before posting. Some criticisms are justified. It's just that they've been discussed to death and I'm fatigued. Too many threads circle around one single concept or another and nip at it for a dozen or more pages, endlessly and pointlessly. I accepted that there would be issues years ago when Andromeda was announced. I was, until then, adamantly against the idea. I wanted ME to remain in the Milky Way. As I said, though, I don't think any of the issues are more than minor. I've posted a lot in other threads, and I am probably too fatigued by it to contribute meaningfully in this one, yet. I haven't seen any real issues raised, at this point, anyway. (The anachronistic weapons are more an annoyance than an issue. Updated weapon descriptions easily fix any problems on that front.) I'll drop in from time to time, and only post if I have something more useful to say next time.  |
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Post by Ahriman on Dec 18, 2016 13:07:18 GMT
Replace minor plotholes with one bigger than entire game? Whatever floats your boat, I guess.
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Post by sjsharp2010 on Dec 18, 2016 13:59:47 GMT
Hmm, those are some very fair points about how it's best if we all just avoid the endings entirely. I was just trying to imagine MEA in a way that makes sense with what we already know, since from what I've seen, most of the valid criticisms are regarding lore inconsistencies. We always knew there would be a few hiccups, here and there; but they've actually done a fairly smooth job with the transition, in my opinion. The circular debates that go on for dozens of pages across numerous threads are mostly hot air, offering very little in the way of useful criticism. They could've said what they've said in a single post, as most of us already did years ago. If you spend too much time in those rants threads, you'll go mad. The Ai has sketchy motivations, but those might be explained in-game. The tech has been addressed reasonably well. The rest is unrevealed. 98% of the game has yet to be seen or discussed. It's too early to be concerned about "head-canons". Agreed I'm not going to bother about headcannoning anything till I have the game in my hands and I know more about the story. Besides based on what we do know so far I believe it to be possible with the tech we had in the trilogy so so far I'm not finding too many issues that I couldn't headcannon bits if I had or need to. After all isn't that what our imagination is for? For example when I play a mage that romances Cullen in DAI I headcannon that my hero uses her magic to help ease Cullen's suffering as he tries to break the hold that the lyrium had on him from his templar days. I know this isn't ME but it's the same sort of idea though. As for the OP's question no I wasn't planning on headcannoning that AI left after ME3because to me it makes moer sense that they leave before then due to the Reaper threat. Not to mention that based on the Nexus/Arks briefing with Avina it looks like the Arks/Nexus leave via the North end of the Milky way. Whereas the Reapers begin their attack in the south eastern corner and spread out from Batarian controlled space so essentially they're attacking from the opposite end so in reality the Arks/Nexus should be long gone before the Reapers realise it assuming they ever do which I'm assuming they don't |
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Post by ddraigcoch123 on Dec 18, 2016 14:40:33 GMT
Honestly... as an obvious major head canoner of the Trilogy (and still not finished... head cannoning that is) I'm not going to do that for Andromeda I am going to play a little with the AI at some point in my own fanfic but only because I think it will be a bit of fun and a challenge to see if I can work it in as its presented without breaking anything I'm more than happy to be left with my 'colour' pick at the end of the Trilogy in game and my own head cannon for how things roll out after the final in game scenes I'm looking forward to a new adventure and I'm going to go with the writers creative vision and give ME:A a fair shot at wowing me There is no guarantee that the writer in me will not want to do some stories about the characters or general people who make the choice to volunteer as I'm pretty sure there will be a rich seam of individual stories to play with but that will be after I've played the game to death and read anything I can get my hands on so I can get immersed in the world We have to literally and metaphorically leave the MW behind and that way all our individual choices and head canon remain in tact and unchallenged... from where I sit that's a win  |
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Post by zallister on Dec 18, 2016 15:18:32 GMT
Leaving after ME3 is problematic. The start of the Arks would be decades or a century after ME3, because of the massive losses of lives and resurces in the reaper war. And that would turn all in ME3 existing weapons into antiquities.
But the current starting Point is in my eyes also problematic. We saw the Ark in Orbit of Earth in construction. The others would build their Arks also at their homeworlds, because they have the best infrastructure there.
Problem is, the alliance increased their navy and the solarians replaced their whole battleship fleet with a new cloakable shipmodel. All that need engeneers and workers. How can you build an new fleet if your workers are buisy building the Ark?
In my eyes, a start shortly BEFORE ME!would be mor believeable. But thats the starting Point. That is not the final Information cut. If you spend a Billion credits Project out, you want to observe it. There are Quantum Communicator with endless range in the mass effect universe. After the start of the arks, you can still overwatch the ship VI, sending Software updates and of course, sending blueprints for ship- and vehicle Upgrades or for complete weapons. Quantum communication has one weak Point:it is a two way communication. If you destroy one side, then you couldn´t fix it. Communication Ends. At the beginning of ME3 the reapers arrive and destroy Earth, Palavan and Tessia. If the reapers don´t destroy the Communicators, the Crew in the Lab will to protect the Ark´s.
But it´s still the Problem, that there is no Explanation for Geth and Quarian weapons on the Ark. No one has the blueprints for them in council space.
Maybe we saw weapons that look like an Quarian or Geth weapon but has an other function and Inventor.
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Post by dmc1001 on Dec 18, 2016 15:35:18 GMT
But it´s still the Problem, that there is no Explanation for Geth and Quarian weapons on the Ark. No one has the blueprints for them in council space. Maybe we saw weapons that look like an Quarian or Geth weapon but has an other function and Inventor. We encountered geth and quarians. Killed loads of geth. No reason to think no one picked up their dropped weapons and studied them. Quarians are admittedly more problematic but it's not a dealbreaker. A quarian on pilgrimage trading weapons for resources? Really not that difficult. |
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Post by KaiserShep on Dec 18, 2016 15:41:34 GMT
But it´s still the Problem, that there is no Explanation for Geth and Quarian weapons on the Ark. No one has the blueprints for them in council space. Maybe we saw weapons that look like an Quarian or Geth weapon but has an other function and Inventor. We were able to buy Geth weapons from various vendors throughout ME1, and quarians are, for the most part, a friendly faction that can trade with various people throughout the galaxy. There's no reason why there wouldn't be a number of them available for us. And really, in singleplayer, you will likely never see these weapons in the hands of NPC's and enemies. |
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Post by KonguZya on Dec 18, 2016 17:28:47 GMT
Leaving after ME3 is problematic. The start of the Arks would be decades or a century after ME3, because of the massive losses of lives and resurces in the reaper war. And that would turn all in ME3 existing weapons into antiquities. But the current starting Point is in my eyes also problematic. We saw the Ark in Orbit of Earth in construction. The others would build their Arks also at their homeworlds, because they have the best infrastructure there. Problem is, the alliance increased their navy and the solarians replaced their whole battleship fleet with a new cloakable shipmodel. All that need engeneers and workers. How can you build an new fleet if your workers are buisy building the Ark? In my eyes, a start shortly BEFORE ME!would be mor believeable. But thats the starting Point. That is not the final Information cut. If you spend a Billion credits Project out, you want to observe it. There are Quantum Communicator with endless range in the mass effect universe. After the start of the arks, you can still overwatch the ship VI, sending Software updates and of course, sending blueprints for ship- and vehicle Upgrades or for complete weapons. Quantum communication has one weak Point:it is a two way communication. If you destroy one side, then you couldn´t fix it. Communication Ends. At the beginning of ME3 the reapers arrive and destroy Earth, Palavan and Tessia. If the reapers don´t destroy the Communicators, the Crew in the Lab will to protect the Ark´s. But it´s still the Problem, that there is no Explanation for Geth and Quarian weapons on the Ark. No one has the blueprints for them in council space. Maybe we saw weapons that look like an Quarian or Geth weapon but has an other function and Inventor. I have considered that the Arks could definitely still be in contact with the Milky Way after leaving, and that would be an explanation of why they have ME3 weapons. It makes a lot more sense than the "prototype schematics" reasoning. I suppose then, that we can assume the quantum entanglers in the Milky Way that the Arks/Nexus link to were destroyed in the Reaper invasion. It would be cool if the last message they received was a broken warning about the Reapers like the damaged message on Ilos. |
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Post by derrame on Dec 18, 2016 18:56:35 GMT
i'm good with A taking place after ME3, 600 years after the war,
my ending is destroy, so in A we start anew
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Post by maximusarael020 on Dec 18, 2016 19:32:30 GMT
I will not be head-canoning MEA to have left after the ME3 endings. For one thing, head-canon for me is things that one decides is true outside of established lore. It does not contradict established lore. So for me this doesn't make any sense.
Also, because I have done all the endings multiple times, they are all true for me, so there would need to be indications of synthesis or Reaper control for it to make sense for me. And it will not. So I'm fine with sticking with the story Bioware has given us and not altering it for my own head-canon.
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Post by armass81 on Dec 18, 2016 19:40:24 GMT
Considering the retcons, im not surprised some people take Andromeda Initiative as headcanon.
Personally, im just tired of analyzing the plot for now, so unlike Smudboy who find faults constantly and whines, im just gonna wait and see how the game turns out now, before I start complaining, if I do. Who knows, the game might be phenomenal.
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Post by alleyd on Dec 18, 2016 19:58:38 GMT
I'm quite into headcanoning The Andromeda Initiative since the reveal that ARKS would be used. My headcanon runs pretty close to the information released so far by BioWare, the only real addition I've made is to place some names of corporations and individuals from the lore used in the trilogy into the pot and stir. For me, the only human corporation in trilogy lore with the capacity to build anything like an ARK is Eldfell Ashland Energy and I use their CEO, Jonah Ashland as my human tycoon that co-operates with corporations and powerful individuals in the other species to initiate the Andromeda Initiative.
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Post by dmc1001 on Dec 18, 2016 20:49:18 GMT
I'd like to see what we've got before I do any sort of headcanon. We barely know anything right now. Hell, EAE could already be in the mix.
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