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Post by Treacherous J Slither on Jan 23, 2017 17:58:00 GMT
But, why do you consider Asari superior to humans in biotics? Inherency doesn't necessarily equal superiority, does it? Kaidan said that his L3 implant put him at a level similar to the Asari. the l5x implants ought to atleast be at such a level-- or higher. As for cutscene power; i personally believe that there's an explanation for that. Alliance marines are taught to conserve energy, essentially relying on their pistol when biotics are overkill. Neither Kaidan-- nor Shepard uses biotics in cutscenes frequently. Kaidan; who's always a biotic, is like jack, Miranda, and Samara etc, can easily use biotics in all cutscenes. But he doesn't, because he's alliance. The other biotics, who aren't alliance-- due to a lack of skill with pistols and alliance training, uses biotics all the time-- usually looking exhausted afterwards. Biotics are extremely exhaustive, as we know they eat twice as much as a non-biotic. When they're as skilled with hand-pistols as they are, it would be logical to use pistols as well. How often do people execute people with shotguns instead of a regular gun? The asari as a race are superior to humans in every way. Everything that us humans are capable of, asari are also capable of. They also live far, FAR longer than we do. We live for a century and a half a half at most. They live for a thousand. An elite human fighter has decades to perfect their ability. An elite asari fighter has centuries to perfect their ability. Asari also use biotic amps. Further increasing their already immense biotic power.
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Post by Treacherous J Slither on Jan 23, 2017 18:41:10 GMT
Have the asari ever won a war? Against who? The rachni? Yes. The krogan? Yes. The Reapers? Yes. Carried away? How so? Everything I've stated is backed up by Mass Effect lore. The Rachni were defeated by the krogan. The krogan were defeated by the genophage - created by salarians and launched by the turians. The Reapers were defeated by Shepard, a human, using a device crafted largely by humans. What war did the asari win? You're right of course. I got a little carried away lol I don't believe that the krogan were necessary to defeat the rachni personally. They make exceptional ground troops but if the enemy is already planet bound just nuke them to oblivion and then send in an army of combat drones and mechs to mop up. The asari could have done it all by themselves. No need to uplift a race of savages. The krogan rebellions would have never happened. They'd still be on Tuchanka getting eaten by thresher maws. The rebellions would also never have happened if mandatory gene therapy for population control was a condition of them joining the galactic Council. I also don't believe the genophage was necessary. The Council races had much larger fleets than the krogan. The rebellion was doomed to failure from this alone. Once the krogan are planet bound they'll quickly consume all their resources because they make no effort to control their numbers. If they ever manage to get a ship off planet it can be blown out of the sky by a orbiting Council fleet whose sole purpose is to do just that. And just like that they'll eat each other into extinction. The asari could have done this on their own too. Or they could simply bat their pretty eyes at the turians and have them do it for them. What race has won a war all on their own? None as far as I know. The turians were winning the First Contact War but it never concluded.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2017 19:10:16 GMT
But, why do you consider Asari superior to humans in biotics? Inherency doesn't necessarily equal superiority, does it? Kaidan said that his L3 implant put him at a level similar to the Asari. the l5x implants ought to atleast be at such a level-- or higher. As for cutscene power; i personally believe that there's an explanation for that. Alliance marines are taught to conserve energy, essentially relying on their pistol when biotics are overkill. Neither Kaidan-- nor Shepard uses biotics in cutscenes frequently. Kaidan; who's always a biotic, is like jack, Miranda, and Samara etc, can easily use biotics in all cutscenes. But he doesn't, because he's alliance. The other biotics, who aren't alliance-- due to a lack of skill with pistols and alliance training, uses biotics all the time-- usually looking exhausted afterwards. Biotics are extremely exhaustive, as we know they eat twice as much as a non-biotic. When they're as skilled with hand-pistols as they are, it would be logical to use pistols as well. How often do people execute people with shotguns instead of a regular gun? The asari as a race are superior to humans in every way. Everything that us humans are capable of, asari are also capable of. They also live far, FAR longer than we do. We live for a century and a half a half at most. They live for a thousand. An elite human fighter has decades to perfect their ability. An elite asari fighter has centuries to perfect their ability. Asari also use biotic amps. Further increasing their already immense biotic power.
I addressed your post in the two boxes below. Feel free to skip to the second box, for the actual topic of this thread. I tried to address your arguments, but also provide some sources that show why i think Shepard and humans in general aren't worse than the Asari. If you can find some contradicting sources-- feel free to present them. "Asari are superior to humans in every way"There's absolutely zero evidence to back up the claim that Asari are superior to humans in every way.
You can actually use evolutionary science to debunk that claim. Telepathic abilities requires resources and energy which could be spent else where. The same reason that we can't run as fast or bite as viciously as a tiger. Moreover, always having been biotic means they would start to rely on them. Meaning that other traits would gradually weaken.
What is not useful, gradually dies out in favor for other strengths. That's why human intelligence is gradually decreasing-- there are things that are more worth the resources than intelligence for succeeding in this world.
A species, can not be superior to another species in every way. But, back to biotics;"It has been noted that humans are unusual in the galactic community because they have far greater genetic diversity compared to other species with more peaks and valleys." masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/HumanMore peaks and valleys essentially means that they have more variation. And more variation, means that the best are better-- and the worst are even worse. To have a practical example; If you measure the genetics for biotics in a scale of from one to a hundred. The Asari might be locked in the seventies and eighties, whilst the humans might be able to accedes anything from the thirties up to a hundred. The few people at the top, will be individuals of exceptional ability. Whilst, the Asari might be better at average-- that wouldn't affect Shepard. Now, that is not a perfect analogy-- but, it brings the point across. Your argument about age does make sense, to a certain regard. However, you can easily argue that you reach a cap with biotic abilities after practicing enough. And, with the thought experiment above-- let's consider that the cap might be higher for the best humans. Shepard, after all his time both with elite training and all the skirmishes he has been trough, should have been able to master his biotic abilities to a level which training has little impact on his abilities. Think about the best weight lifter or the best marksman in the world-- does his abilities improve much from that point by practicing further? Or does he just maintain his abilities? Here's a quotation from the wiki again; "Humans are generally seen to be very intelligent, abnormally ambitious, highly adaptable, individualistic and thus, unpredictable. They have a powerful desire to advance and improve themselves" masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/HumanThat means Shepard will practice very hard to reach his maximum capacity; and, would reach it quickly. Liara and Shepard actually discusses it in ME1-- Liara concludes that human's short lifespans are an advantage rather than a disadvantage. Asari just sit around at their homes appreciating art, whilst the humans ruthlessly fight to become the best. Also, Shepard-- and his team, regardless of whether or not he brings any non-humans along can easily defeat Benezia and her Asari Commandos. Benezia, who is stated to be a powerful biotic- even for an Asari. And the Commandos, who're the elite of the Asari military-- the equivalent to N7s. At that point, Shepard can bring a regular alliance marine who isn't even N7 and a relatively normal C-sec officer. Which means that their team beating Benezia, with his L3 implants-- is incredibly impressive. Either, Shepard is incredible-- or the Asari are shit.
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Post by Treacherous J Slither on Jan 24, 2017 21:39:16 GMT
The asari as a race are superior to humans in every way. Everything that us humans are capable of, asari are also capable of. They also live far, FAR longer than we do. We live for a century and a half a half at most. They live for a thousand. An elite human fighter has decades to perfect their ability. An elite asari fighter has centuries to perfect their ability. Asari also use biotic amps. Further increasing their already immense biotic power.
I addressed your post in the two boxes below. Feel free to skip to the second box, for the actual topic of this thread. I tried to address your arguments, but also provide some sources that show why i think Shepard and humans in general aren't worse than the Asari. If you can find some contradicting sources-- feel free to present them. "Asari are superior to humans in every way"There's absolutely zero evidence to back up the claim that Asari are superior to humans in every way.
You can actually use evolutionary science to debunk that claim. Telepathic abilities requires resources and energy which could be spent else where. The same reason that we can't run as fast or bite as viciously as a tiger. Moreover, always having been biotic means they would start to rely on them. Meaning that other traits would gradually weaken.
What is not useful, gradually dies out in favor for other strengths. That's why human intelligence is gradually decreasing-- there are things that are more worth the resources than intelligence for succeeding in this world.
A species, can not be superior to another species in every way. But, back to biotics;"It has been noted that humans are unusual in the galactic community because they have far greater genetic diversity compared to other species with more peaks and valleys." masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/HumanMore peaks and valleys essentially means that they have more variation. And more variation, means that the best are better-- and the worst are even worse. To have a practical example; If you measure the genetics for biotics in a scale of from one to a hundred. The Asari might be locked in the seventies and eighties, whilst the humans might be able to accedes anything from the thirties up to a hundred. The few people at the top, will be individuals of exceptional ability. Whilst, the Asari might be better at average-- that wouldn't affect Shepard. Now, that is not a perfect analogy-- but, it brings the point across. Your argument about age does make sense, to a certain regard. However, you can easily argue that you reach a cap with biotic abilities after practicing enough. And, with the thought experiment above-- let's consider that the cap might be higher for the best humans. Shepard, after all his time both with elite training and all the skirmishes he has been trough, should have been able to master his biotic abilities to a level which training has little impact on his abilities. Think about the best weight lifter or the best marksman in the world-- does his abilities improve much from that point by practicing further? Or does he just maintain his abilities? Here's a quotation from the wiki again; "Humans are generally seen to be very intelligent, abnormally ambitious, highly adaptable, individualistic and thus, unpredictable. They have a powerful desire to advance and improve themselves" masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/HumanThat means Shepard will practice very hard to reach his maximum capacity; and, would reach it quickly. Liara and Shepard actually discusses it in ME1-- Liara concludes that human's short lifespans are an advantage rather than a disadvantage. Asari just sit around at their homes appreciating art, whilst the humans ruthlessly fight to become the best. Also, Shepard-- and his team, regardless of whether or not he brings any non-humans along can easily defeat Benezia and her Asari Commandos. Benezia, who is stated to be a powerful biotic- even for an Asari. And the Commandos, who're the elite of the Asari military-- the equivalent to N7s. At that point, Shepard can bring a regular alliance marine who isn't even N7 and a relatively normal C-sec officer. Which means that their team beating Benezia, with his L3 implants-- is incredibly impressive. Either, Shepard is incredible-- or the Asari are shit. What can a human do potentially that an asari can't also do? Can you think of anything? I can't. There is nothing a human might do that an asari might not also do. Us humans and the asari are practically the same. Except the asari live ten times our lifetimes, can mate with anything only to make more asari, and they all have superpowers. How is that not superiority?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2017 12:45:23 GMT
Have the asari ever won a war? Against who? The rachni? Yes. The krogan? Yes. The Reapers? Yes. Carried away? How so? Everything I've stated is backed up by Mass Effect lore. The Rachni were defeated by the krogan. The krogan were defeated by the genophage - created by salarians and launched by the turians. The Reapers were defeated by Shepard, a human, using a device crafted largely by humans. What war did the asari win? Saying the Asari have never won a war is a bit like saying that Saudia Arabia didn't win in the Gulf War, the United States didn't win in the Second World War, France didn't win the First World War, Britain didn't win the Napoleonic Wars, or Rome didn't win the Second Punic War. It was a rather daft comment by Shepard and it makes him sound as if he is unfamiliar with galactic history. As far as dialogue goes it is one of the biggest clunkers in the series. A lot of wars involve coalitions. That doesn't change the victory conditions and having an ally (or several) doesn't make a nation on the winning side any less victorious. Having a strong alliance (or more importantly a stronger alliance than any potential adversary) is often part and parcel to successful grand strategy. The Krogan actually did poorly against the Asari as well, from what little information we are given on the Krogan rebellions. We know of two Asari planets they attacked, and at both the Asari defeated them. On Lusia a Krogan invasion force succeeded in occupying the planet but had their supply lines subsequently cut in a counterattack and were forced to surrender, and at Cyone the Krogan launched several planetary assaults, were repulsed each time by the defending garrison, and were finally driven out of the system completely when an Asari fleet cut their supply lines. If there is a running theme for the Krogan Rebellions it appears to be that the Krogan don't do a good job of keeping their supply lines secure, and are an epic fail at logistics. Nations that fail at logistics, fail to win wars. The Krogan are better off as shock troops in a coalition, where someone better at planning is calling the shots (not unlike the Rachni Wars). Failing that, they need to get a hold of Sun Tzu, stat: "The line between order and disorder lies in logistics."
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Post by dmc1001 on Jan 25, 2017 16:21:42 GMT
The Krogan actually did poorly against the Asari as well, from what little information we are given on the Krogan rebellions. We know of two Asari planets they attacked, and at both the Asari defeated them. On Lusia a Krogan invasion force succeeded in occupying the planet but had their supply lines subsequently cut in a counterattack and were forced to surrender, and at Cyone the Krogan launched several planetary assaults, were repulsed each time by the defending garrison, and were finally driven out of the system completely when an Asari fleet cut their supply lines. If there is a running theme for the Krogan Rebellions it appears to be that the Krogan don't do a good job of keeping their supply lines secure, and are an epic fail at logistics. Nations that fail at logistics, fail to win wars. The Krogan are better off as shock troops in a coalition, where someone better at planning is calling the shots (not unlike the Rachni Wars). Failing that, they need to get a hold of Sun Tzu, stat: "The line between order and disorder lies in logistics." Interesting. I don't remember these comments from the game with this information but I'm sure there's plenty I've missed. If I'm reading this right it means that the Council races could have beat the Rachni on their own and also could have beat the krogan on their own. The genophage was merely an exercise in cruelty. Therefore, it was never necessary and there's no special reason to continue it. The krogan don't have warships so either they'll populate out of control and starve to death or learn cooperation. Both outcomes are agreeable.
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Post by Treacherous J Slither on Jan 26, 2017 15:15:49 GMT
The Krogan actually did poorly against the Asari as well, from what little information we are given on the Krogan rebellions. We know of two Asari planets they attacked, and at both the Asari defeated them. On Lusia a Krogan invasion force succeeded in occupying the planet but had their supply lines subsequently cut in a counterattack and were forced to surrender, and at Cyone the Krogan launched several planetary assaults, were repulsed each time by the defending garrison, and were finally driven out of the system completely when an Asari fleet cut their supply lines. If there is a running theme for the Krogan Rebellions it appears to be that the Krogan don't do a good job of keeping their supply lines secure, and are an epic fail at logistics. Nations that fail at logistics, fail to win wars. The Krogan are better off as shock troops in a coalition, where someone better at planning is calling the shots (not unlike the Rachni Wars). Failing that, they need to get a hold of Sun Tzu, stat: "The line between order and disorder lies in logistics." Interesting. I don't remember these comments from the game with this information but I'm sure there's plenty I've missed. If I'm reading this right it means that the Council races could have beat the Rachni on their own and also could have beat the krogan on their own. The genophage was merely an exercise in cruelty. Therefore, it was never necessary and there's no special reason to continue it. The krogan don't have warships so either they'll populate out of control and starve to death or learn cooperation. Both outcomes are agreeable. Genophage was still necessary because control is only possible if they are restricted to Tuchanka. If they are allowed to leave their planet and given the same freedoms as everyone else, they would inevitably breed out of control on various worlds and stations. The genophage gives the krogan the same easily manageable birthrate of the other Council races. The krogan don't give birth to live young. They lay eggs. There are no stillborn babies here. A superior option to the genophage would have been to genetically modify the krogan so that they only laid a few eggs instead of a thousand. That way their numbers wouldn't be such a threat and the krogan wouldn't have to bear the pain of watching only one egg hatching out of the many.
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Origin: ferroboy
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Post by dmc1001 on Jan 26, 2017 16:20:25 GMT
Genophage was still necessary because control is only possible if they are restricted to Tuchanka. If they are allowed to leave their planet and given the same freedoms as everyone else, they would inevitably breed out of control on various worlds and stations. The genophage gives the krogan the same easily manageable birthrate of the other Council races. The krogan don't give birth to live young. They lay eggs. There are no stillborn babies here. A superior option to the genophage would have been to genetically modify the krogan so that they only laid a few eggs instead of a thousand. That way their numbers wouldn't be such a threat and the krogan wouldn't have to bear the pain of watching only one egg hatching out of the many. Moved my reply to a new thread titled "Krogan births and the genophage". Krogan births and the genophage
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Post by Cannibal on Jan 29, 2017 0:55:01 GMT
I addressed your post in the two boxes below. Feel free to skip to the second box, for the actual topic of this thread. I tried to address your arguments, but also provide some sources that show why i think Shepard and humans in general aren't worse than the Asari. If you can find some contradicting sources-- feel free to present them. "Asari are superior to humans in every way"There's absolutely zero evidence to back up the claim that Asari are superior to humans in every way.
You can actually use evolutionary science to debunk that claim. Telepathic abilities requires resources and energy which could be spent else where. The same reason that we can't run as fast or bite as viciously as a tiger. Moreover, always having been biotic means they would start to rely on them. Meaning that other traits would gradually weaken.
What is not useful, gradually dies out in favor for other strengths. That's why human intelligence is gradually decreasing-- there are things that are more worth the resources than intelligence for succeeding in this world.
A species, can not be superior to another species in every way. But, back to biotics;"It has been noted that humans are unusual in the galactic community because they have far greater genetic diversity compared to other species with more peaks and valleys." masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/HumanMore peaks and valleys essentially means that they have more variation. And more variation, means that the best are better-- and the worst are even worse. To have a practical example; If you measure the genetics for biotics in a scale of from one to a hundred. The Asari might be locked in the seventies and eighties, whilst the humans might be able to accedes anything from the thirties up to a hundred. The few people at the top, will be individuals of exceptional ability. Whilst, the Asari might be better at average-- that wouldn't affect Shepard. Now, that is not a perfect analogy-- but, it brings the point across. Your argument about age does make sense, to a certain regard. However, you can easily argue that you reach a cap with biotic abilities after practicing enough. And, with the thought experiment above-- let's consider that the cap might be higher for the best humans. Shepard, after all his time both with elite training and all the skirmishes he has been trough, should have been able to master his biotic abilities to a level which training has little impact on his abilities. Think about the best weight lifter or the best marksman in the world-- does his abilities improve much from that point by practicing further? Or does he just maintain his abilities? Here's a quotation from the wiki again; "Humans are generally seen to be very intelligent, abnormally ambitious, highly adaptable, individualistic and thus, unpredictable. They have a powerful desire to advance and improve themselves" masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/HumanThat means Shepard will practice very hard to reach his maximum capacity; and, would reach it quickly. Liara and Shepard actually discusses it in ME1-- Liara concludes that human's short lifespans are an advantage rather than a disadvantage. Asari just sit around at their homes appreciating art, whilst the humans ruthlessly fight to become the best. Also, Shepard-- and his team, regardless of whether or not he brings any non-humans along can easily defeat Benezia and her Asari Commandos. Benezia, who is stated to be a powerful biotic- even for an Asari. And the Commandos, who're the elite of the Asari military-- the equivalent to N7s. At that point, Shepard can bring a regular alliance marine who isn't even N7 and a relatively normal C-sec officer. Which means that their team beating Benezia, with his L3 implants-- is incredibly impressive. Either, Shepard is incredible-- or the Asari are shit. What can a human do potentially that an asari can't also do? Can you think of anything? I can't. There is nothing a human might do that an asari might not also do. Us humans and the asari are practically the same. Except the asari live ten times our lifetimes, can mate with anything only to make more asari, and they all have superpowers. How is that not superiority? Some humans have certain "appendages" that Asari can't physically have. And using said "appendage" those humans can do plenty of things that Asari can not.
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Post by Treacherous J Slither on Jan 29, 2017 18:58:30 GMT
What can a human do potentially that an asari can't also do? Can you think of anything? I can't. There is nothing a human might do that an asari might not also do. Us humans and the asari are practically the same. Except the asari live ten times our lifetimes, can mate with anything only to make more asari, and they all have superpowers. How is that not superiority? Some humans have certain "appendages" that Asari can't physically have. And using said "appendage" those humans can do plenty of things that Asari can not. They can't write their names in the snow as effectively as us human males lol very true.
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