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Post by Deleted on Dec 21, 2016 18:49:12 GMT
Hi, fellow Spectres! We haven't really had lots of threads about the trilogy in a while with all the Andromeda focus these days-- and, thus we need something new to talk about... I think Shepard's capabilities with biotics is really interesting; Shepard basically has god status for his physical and tactical prowess; however, when it comes to biotics-- it's far more ambiguous! Mostly due to the lack of biotics in cut scenes and that he has competitors such as Jack and Samara. And, thus, to truly ascertain his power we now have a forum post with polls and hopefully various opinions. How powerful is Shepard? I wrote a short rant below about my opinion- it might be too long or too biased, so i put it in a spoiler box. If you want-- feel free to skip it, and jump straight to your opinion! We know that atleast for gameplay mechanics; he's far superior to everyone in biotics. He can cast biotic abilities atleast as powerful as everyone else, but at at a far faster rate with a wider array of abilities. However, the problem is-- a biotic Shepard is rarely mentioned or shown in dialogues and cut-scenes. The two best references we have is:
"Shepard was an extremely talented biotic-- and one of the most powerful fighters in the alliance" Both Kaidan and Jack are technically part of the alliance at the time of this line; which already puts him way up there. This is also coming from Liara, not a poor biotic herself.
"but they spike higher than a lot of l3's-- except for you of course" This is said by Kaidan in the first game; whilst he was still a l3. With Kaidan being one of the most widely regarded biotics in the alliance, him considering Shepard even more powerful is really impressive.
That brings us to the third point; Shepard was regarded as powerful when he was a l3. If we consider the improvements he got physically; like: heavy muscle weave-- it wouldn't be unrealistic to assume he's got similar upgrades to his biotic abilities. We know that he atleast got l5x implants-- but who knows what kind of cool shit they did with eezo exposure and such.
Now, the biggest counter-argument to Shepard's power is that he couldn't do the biotic shield in the suicide mission. But, in my opinion that's rather he's "busy" leading the team-- i mean, even Thane and Jacob can try.
Now, the primary purpose of this thread is to have some interesting discussion within the community-- and to finally ascertain whether or not Shepard is a biotic god. I made a poll that you can vote in-- and if you wish to elaborate, please comment below! |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 21, 2016 19:32:03 GMT
I am just going by what the game tells me, and I was the most impressed by Jack's biotics. Granted, she is toned down in ME3, but in ME2, I basically believed that she was bred as a biotic goddess.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 21, 2016 19:41:40 GMT
I think it depends on what options the player decides to put into their individual Shepard and individual squadmate builds. I can easily make my Shepard the strongest by simply not assigning points in the biotic abilities of my squadmates or vice versa.
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Post by themikefest on Dec 21, 2016 19:54:40 GMT
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Post by Darth Dennis on Dec 21, 2016 20:21:59 GMT
I think it's fair to say a Shepard with master singularity, lift, throw and warp in ME1 is a biotic god. I'd say ME3 vanguard is a biotic god, too.
Though that's only in gameplay, which isn't really relative (see Jack in ME2) to biotic power lore-wise, so nobody really knows.
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Post by CrutchCricket on Dec 21, 2016 22:50:47 GMT
Asari outclass humans in biotics, especially when you get to Matriarch levels so of the poll options Samara wins. Then between humans, I think Jack is supposed to be the strongest human biotic so she would edge out over Shepard in raw power. Miranda may as well with her "enhanced" biotics, though not to the same degree as Jack. Shepard would then beat out every other human. On the other hand, you have the N7 Fury And Slayer who teleport and in the case of the former use ridiculous powers unheard of in any but advanced biotic races (Protheans and asari). Sure, that's gameplay but still.
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Post by RedCaesar97 on Dec 22, 2016 1:00:10 GMT
The answer is Yes. And no.
Using your (obvious) restrictions of limiting the question to in-game lore only and not actual gameplay, then I will say that yes, Adept/Vanguard Shepard is a biotic god, rivaled -- and possibly surpassed lore-wise -- only by Jack, Samara, and Morinth. I'm not sure if those three are equal, less, or better at biotics than Shepard lore-wise.
I know that in ME3 in the Ardat-Yakshi Monastery after seeing Samara float down, Kaidan can ask Adept Shepard if she has ever floated. Adept Shepard says no. Now that is not necessarily a clue that Samara is better; rather it could mean that she has a biotic skill that Shepard does not have. In the Citadel DLC, Kaidan can joke that he trained very hard and can now Reave.
And the answer is also No because Soldier, Infiltrator, Engineer, and Sentinel Shepard are not biotic gods. Although they could be biotic demi-gods.
And lastly, Shepard is only a biotic god to his or her allies. To Shepard's enemies, Shepard is Biotic Demon.
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Post by dmc1001 on Dec 22, 2016 2:52:24 GMT
I picked Kaidan but I don't really know. I couldn't say if Samara or Jack were stronger. I think Kaidan was extremely strong from a young age and then began holding back after killing Vyrnnus. That means we don't know his true power, only that he hasn't been properly trained in the full extent of his abilities.
My canon Shepard is a soldier. (Yes, I know he can later acquire biotic powers somehow. Presumably he's a latent biotic who Cerberus decided to upgrade when they had their hands on his unconscious body in ME2.) My canon Shepard is therefore not more powerful than Kaidan, Jack or Samara. However, I think he is more powerful of a biotic than Thane or Wrex.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 25, 2016 1:05:32 GMT
I would say no. I think at least within the story Shepard isn't the most powerful biotic ever, and at least three and possibly four of the squadmates are stronger. That Shepard isn't even a candidate for the biotic bubble in ME2 points to Jack & Samara at least being stronger. Jack is also presented as the strongest known human biotic.
Obviously none of that is reflected in gameplay, and player characters will always do more damage than NPCs.
I think where Shepard outclasses all the squadmates from a story perspective, is on leadership, and being a better all-rounder. Jack might be stronger with biotics, but a biotic Shep is likely better with firearms, and more dangerous if things go hand-to-hand.
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Post by opuspace on Dec 26, 2016 19:51:17 GMT
Shepard's already codpiece deep in fame and adulation; Them being the strongest biotic would exacerbate the hero worship image players get inundated with.
I see nothing wrong with them being a force to be reckoned with, but Shepard sure as hell isn't the strongest biotic. There's always someone or something smarter, faster and stronger. Having a little humble pie now and then would be good for the protagonist.
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Post by pathfinderhatu on Jan 11, 2017 2:11:19 GMT
Speaking to my wife about this, Jack is more direct, unchained, brute force biotic power while Samara is Paragon-Aligned controlled biotic power. Shepard has more biotic variety, I've noticed, at least in Mass Effect 2 (I haven't player Three yet).
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Post by Treacherous J Slither on Jan 18, 2017 20:22:32 GMT
Shepherd has access to every biotic power in-game because he's the player character and the developers wanted to show the player a good time with the space magic.
No human biotic can surpass the abilities of the asari. A race of people from a planet soaked in eezo. Even some of the plants and animals there have biotic powers ffs. Samara has some of the most powerful biotics that this race has to offer. She took on an asari mercenary squad by herself like it was nothing. Took them down without firing a single shot. Correct me if im wrong because I may have misremembered. She can also use her power to levitate which I imagine is something that only the most powerful of biotics can do. So far only her and 2 other people, also asari, have done it. Liara, who is practically a child, and that crooked Spectre from the Shadow Broker dlc who gave Shepherd and her squad the fight of their lives even after being severely injured in a car accident and chased all through Azure.
No human is ever mentioned as having biotic powers rivaling much less surpassing those of the asari.
With their incredible powers and abilities they're goddesses as far as I'm concerned.
#AsariMasterRace
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Post by dmc1001 on Jan 19, 2017 7:31:29 GMT
Shepherd has access to every biotic power in-game because he's the player character and the developers wanted to show the player a good time with the space magic. No human biotic can surpass the abilities of the asari. A race of people from a planet soaked in eezo. Even some of the plants and animals there have biotic powers ffs. Samara has some of the most powerful biotics that this race has to offer. She took on an asari mercenary squad by herself like it was nothing. Took them down without firing a single shot. Correct me if im wrong because I may have misremembered. She can also use her power to levitate which I imagine is something that only the most powerful of biotics can do. So far only her and 2 other people, also asari, have done it. Liara, who is practically a child, and that crooked Spectre from the Shadow Broker dlc who gave Shepherd and her squad the fight of their lives even after being severely injured in a car accident and chased all through Azure. No human is ever mentioned as having biotic powers rivaling much less surpassing those of the asari. With their incredible powers and abilities they're goddesses as far as I'm concerned. #AsariMasterRace There are biotic varren and those come from Tuchanka. Kaidan (and Shepeard, of course) learned reave, an ability that seems to be specific to the asari. Humans have only had biotic powers for like 30 years or so. We don't know their full capabilities with great training. They've just begun to explore what is possible. That said, I think only asari can mind meld. Also only seen asari levitate to the ground. I'm thinking Kaidan believed he might be able to do the same with enough practice. Not sure if that was Citadel DLC or the Ardat-Yakshi mission. |
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Post by Treacherous J Slither on Jan 20, 2017 14:56:46 GMT
Shepherd has access to every biotic power in-game because he's the player character and the developers wanted to show the player a good time with the space magic. No human biotic can surpass the abilities of the asari. A race of people from a planet soaked in eezo. Even some of the plants and animals there have biotic powers ffs. Samara has some of the most powerful biotics that this race has to offer. She took on an asari mercenary squad by herself like it was nothing. Took them down without firing a single shot. Correct me if im wrong because I may have misremembered. She can also use her power to levitate which I imagine is something that only the most powerful of biotics can do. So far only her and 2 other people, also asari, have done it. Liara, who is practically a child, and that crooked Spectre from the Shadow Broker dlc who gave Shepherd and her squad the fight of their lives even after being severely injured in a car accident and chased all through Azure. No human is ever mentioned as having biotic powers rivaling much less surpassing those of the asari. With their incredible powers and abilities they're goddesses as far as I'm concerned. #AsariMasterRace There are biotic varren and those come from Tuchanka. Kaidan (and Shepeard, of course) learned reave, an ability that seems to be specific to the asari. Humans have only had biotic powers for like 30 years or so. We don't know their full capabilities with great training. They've just begun to explore what is possible. That said, I think only asari can mind meld. Also only seen asari levitate to the ground. I'm thinking Kaidan believed he might be able to do the same with enough practice. Not sure if that was Citadel DLC or the Ardat-Yakshi mission. Biotic varren? That's cool. Doesn't dispute anything I've said though. Or were you not trying to? Humans can only gain biotic abilities through artificial means. The individual must be exposed to element zero in the womb which is usually fatal. The lucky ones survive only to have low level biotics. Humans like Alenko are very rare. Human biotic potential is low. Through technology and hard work our potential can increase but the asari are doing the same things and will always be ahead of us. Anything we can do, they can do better. #AsariMasterRace |
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Post by CrutchCricket on Jan 20, 2017 15:54:08 GMT
Biotic varren? That's cool. Doesn't dispute anything I've said though. Or were you not trying to? Humans can only gain biotic abilities through artificial means. The individual must be exposed to element zero in the womb which is usually fatal. The lucky ones survive only to have low level biotics. Humans like Alenko are very rare. Human biotic potential is low. Through technology and hard work our potential can increase but the asari are doing the same things and will always be ahead of us. Anything we can do, they can do better. #AsariMasterRace But have they ever actually won a war?  I agree with you about their biotics, but let's not get carried away. |
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Post by aoibhealfae on Jan 21, 2017 3:28:50 GMT
you guys do realize the volus who said it is Mark Meer right?
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Post by pathfinderhatu on Jan 21, 2017 7:13:18 GMT
I found a stronger Biotic, and she is an Ardat'Yakshi and the leader of Omega...yup Aria T'Loak is an Ardak'Yakshi.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 21, 2017 14:59:22 GMT
But, why do you consider Asari superior to humans in biotics? Inherency doesn't necessarily equal superiority, does it? Kaidan said that his L3 implant put him at a level similar to the Asari. the l5x implants ought to atleast be at such a level-- or higher.
As for cutscene power; i personally believe that there's an explanation for that. Alliance marines are taught to conserve energy, essentially relying on their pistol when biotics are overkill. Neither Kaidan-- nor Shepard uses biotics in cutscenes frequently. Kaidan; who's always a biotic, is like jack, Miranda, and Samara etc, can easily use biotics in all cutscenes. But he doesn't, because he's alliance. The other biotics, who aren't alliance-- due to a lack of skill with pistols and alliance training, uses biotics all the time-- usually looking exhausted afterwards.
Biotics are extremely exhaustive, as we know they eat twice as much as a non-biotic. When they're as skilled with hand-pistols as they are, it would be logical to use pistols as well. How often do people execute people with shotguns instead of a regular gun?
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Post by Sifr on Jan 21, 2017 15:15:33 GMT
I'd say that Shepard is not the strongest biotic, but makes up for it by being exceptionally proficient when it comes to both biotics and traditional combat, which is why they're such a dangerous opponent on the battlefield.
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Post by dmc1001 on Jan 21, 2017 15:40:15 GMT
I found a stronger Biotic, and she is an Ardat'Yakshi and the leader of Omega...yup Aria T'Loak is an Ardak'Yakshi. Aria has a daughter. Ardat-Yakshi cannot reproduce. Therefore, Aria is not Ardat-Yakshi. |
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Post by dmc1001 on Jan 21, 2017 15:43:34 GMT
But, why do you consider Asari superior to humans in biotics? Inherency doesn't necessarily equal superiority, does it? Kaidan said that his L3 implant put him at a level similar to the Asari. the l5x implants ought to atleast be at such a level-- or higher. As for cutscene power; i personally believe that there's an explanation for that. Alliance marines are taught to conserve energy, essentially relying on their pistol when biotics are overkill. Neither Kaidan-- nor Shepard uses biotics in cutscenes frequently. Kaidan; who's always a biotic, is like jack, Miranda, and Samara etc, can easily use biotics in all cutscenes. But he doesn't, because he's alliance. The other biotics, who aren't alliance-- due to a lack of skill with pistols and alliance training, uses biotics all the time-- usually looking exhausted afterwards. Biotics are extremely exhaustive, as we know they eat twice as much as a non-biotic. When they're as skilled with hand-pistols as they are, it would be logical to use pistols as well. How often do people execute people with shotguns instead of a regular gun? Kaidan had an L2. He makes a comment in ME1 about Shepard having an L3 (which is odd, because I first heard that when playing Soldier class). I think Jack has an L5. As far as inherency, I'm not sure asari have that. I think they still have to have that exposure to eezo but they made sure it happens. At the very least we have no confirmation one way or the other. I agree with your other points. |
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Post by Treacherous J Slither on Jan 22, 2017 23:24:07 GMT
Biotic varren? That's cool. Doesn't dispute anything I've said though. Or were you not trying to? Humans can only gain biotic abilities through artificial means. The individual must be exposed to element zero in the womb which is usually fatal. The lucky ones survive only to have low level biotics. Humans like Alenko are very rare. Human biotic potential is low. Through technology and hard work our potential can increase but the asari are doing the same things and will always be ahead of us. Anything we can do, they can do better. #AsariMasterRace But have they ever actually won a war? I agree with you about their biotics, but let's not get carried away. Have the asari ever won a war? Against who? The rachni? Yes. The krogan? Yes. The Reapers? Yes. Carried away? How so? Everything I've stated is backed up by Mass Effect lore. |
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Post by dmc1001 on Jan 23, 2017 1:00:11 GMT
But have they ever actually won a war? I agree with you about their biotics, but let's not get carried away. Have the asari ever won a war? Against who? The rachni? Yes. The krogan? Yes. The Reapers? Yes. Carried away? How so? Everything I've stated is backed up by Mass Effect lore. The Rachni were defeated by the krogan. The krogan were defeated by the genophage - created by salarians and launched by the turians. The Reapers were defeated by Shepard, a human, using a device crafted largely by humans. What war did the asari win? |
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Post by midnightwolf on Jan 23, 2017 2:59:34 GMT
Whoa, lets not go crazy here...The Asari did NOT defeat the Reapers. In fact, they point blank refused to get involved with the War effort because they were busy hiding Prothean beacon.
A beacon I might add, which made their Home World a Reaper stomping groud, once the Reapers realised that it was there, and that the Illusive man wanted to use it against them.
To the OP. My Shepard is most certainly a Biotic God, thank you.
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Post by aoibhealfae on Jan 23, 2017 4:22:16 GMT
Kaidan commanded the only Biotic division for Alliance's special operations. He is the most powerful Biotic soldier in the Alliance Military, that's a fact. He get medical complications from his implant but he didn't need to get experimented on like Miranda and Jack. He killed a fully-trained Turian biotic when he's 17. He's just a character who doesn't like to show off.
Shepard is just a snowflake really. Just because Shepard is biotic OP in gameplay, doesn't mean Shepard is OP in the story.
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