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Post by patches on Aug 29, 2016 13:13:33 GMT
I doubt Mythal just gave everything up for Solas I suspect she needs him to bring down the Veil so she can get the revenge she's been plotting since her family murdered her way back when. He's her pawn just as much as anybody else.
The next time we see Mythal she'll probably be in Morrigan's body (unless Kate Mulgrew changes her mind) but the OGB plotline was cut off in DAI and it's unlikely to be mentioned again. Morrigan might give a vague explaintion for his absence if Kieran is part of the imported backstory but nothing more will come of him. I think Feynriel has a better chance of returning than Kieran.
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Post by marikahaliwell on Aug 29, 2016 13:42:54 GMT
I doubt Mythal just gave everything up for Solas I suspect she needs him to bring down the Veil so she can get the revenge she's been plotting since her family murdered her way back when. He's her pawn just as much as anybody else. The next time we see Mythal she'll probably be in Morrigan's body (unless Kate Mulgrew changes her mind) but the OGB plotline was cut off in DAI and it's unlikely to be mentioned again. Morrigan might give a vague explaintion for his absence if Kieran is part of the imported backstory but nothing more will come of him. I think Feynriel has a better chance of returning than Kieran. But .. I've made the poor guy Tranquil because I didn't want to let a Dreamer loose on Tevinter
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Post by Iakus on Aug 29, 2016 15:58:39 GMT
I don't know what will happen with Flemeth except that I sincerely doubt Mythal is dead. If she survived what the Evanuris did to her, then she certainly survived what Solas did to her. Especially considering Solas considers her a friend and 'the best of them'. He wouldn't kill Mythal. So Flemeth may no longer be with us but Mythal is undoubtedly lurking somewhere. But I'd say Kieran's part in the story is done and gone. I doubt we'll see him again, except maybe as a footnote in regards to Morrigan. Partly this is because he doesn't exist in any number of people's stories (including my canon world - and iirc the devs' canon world as well. Don't they have as their canon a Dalish elf who sacrifices themselves? Ergo, no OGB in the Bioware canon world) and partly because if he does exist, he doesn't have the OG soul anymore. He may be a mage, though it's not mentioned in DAI, but the thing that made him remarkable is now gone. Personally, I think the writers deeply regret that particular part of the DAO storyline and took this as an opportunity to resolve it so that they can get rid of the endless OGB questions. Just goes to show you can't have "big choices" and save imports. the narrative will collapse under the weight of all that divergence.
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Post by naughtynomad on Aug 29, 2016 16:21:25 GMT
I don't know what will happen with Flemeth except that I sincerely doubt Mythal is dead. If she survived what the Evanuris did to her, then she certainly survived what Solas did to her. Especially considering Solas considers her a friend and 'the best of them'. He wouldn't kill Mythal. So Flemeth may no longer be with us but Mythal is undoubtedly lurking somewhere. But I'd say Kieran's part in the story is done and gone. I doubt we'll see him again, except maybe as a footnote in regards to Morrigan. Partly this is because he doesn't exist in any number of people's stories (including my canon world - and iirc the devs' canon world as well. Don't they have as their canon a Dalish elf who sacrifices themselves? Ergo, no OGB in the Bioware canon world) and partly because if he does exist, he doesn't have the OG soul anymore. He may be a mage, though it's not mentioned in DAI, but the thing that made him remarkable is now gone. Personally, I think the writers deeply regret that particular part of the DAO storyline and took this as an opportunity to resolve it so that they can get rid of the endless OGB questions. Just goes to show you can't have "big choices" and save imports. the narrative will collapse under the weight of all that divergence. Nah, you can if you do it right. But I don't think BW intended for things to carry forward with the series like they did. They've learned their lessons and handled things pretty well with Inquisition.
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Post by Iakus on Aug 29, 2016 16:30:38 GMT
Nah, you can if you do it right. But I don't think BW intended for things to carry forward with the series like they did. They've learned their lessons and handled things pretty well with Inquisition. I should point out that in the end, Inquisition didn't shake Thedas with its major changes. No more than A Paragon of her Kind changed things for future games.
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Post by patches on Aug 29, 2016 18:09:57 GMT
But .. I've made the poor guy Tranquil because I didn't want to let a Dreamer loose on Tevinter Yeah he has three different endings I think but if BW wanted to bring him back they could just handwave all of them into apprentice in Tevinter by claiming DREAMER MAGIC. His return is unlikely but imo it's a stronger possibility than seeing Kieran again.
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Post by mikoto on Aug 30, 2016 21:26:47 GMT
Though I'm getting tired of seeing Morrigan show up and continue to be important to the game, my personal guess is she'll show up as the new host of Mythal. The Flemeth we know probably won't look and sound the way we did.
Kieran doesn't exist in three out of my four world-states and even in that one he no longer has the old god soul courtesy of Flemeth. That cunning old Witch got what she wanted in the end despite Morrigan's best efforts to stop her. (Remember she sent Morrigan out with the Warden specifically to bring the old god soul back to her only Morrigan got greedy and tried to keep it for herself.)
So one way or another he's no longer important. I expect if he exists Morrigan will say something like "He's safe, and hidden." As a one off line. As for Feyinriel. I hope to see him again. I kept his mind healthy and intact in all my worldstates.
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Post by Tuchanka Love on Aug 30, 2016 22:00:11 GMT
It came down to nothing. When they made the option to have the OGB in DAO it's obvious they didn't plan far ahead what this was going to mean to the story in the future. If Morrigan had the OGB, Kieran is free of that soul now. Whatever that even was because the game didn't really go into details what was going on with Kieran. Did he have two souls inside his body? And if so, wtf. So yeah, either way it was removed and he is free. OGB story is over and didn't mean anything.
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Post by pixiqui on Sept 3, 2016 23:50:00 GMT
It really sucked the OGB turned out to be nothing, keiran could of been the next Daenerys Targaryen lol. I understand why they did it but still feels like lost potential.
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Post by Prince on Sept 4, 2016 7:23:30 GMT
This story wouldn't make it past Ostagar if it was tabletop, considering how Morrigan introduces herself many a character would be justified in taking her prisoner rather than following her blindly to her 'mother,as for Kieren he doesn't play much of a role at all in the game. Its probably unwise to expect much movement on this, given that his existence is optional and dependant on your choice in Origins. I guess we'll just have to wait and see, but I'm not holding my breath for answers on this - Bioware rarely commit much resources to characters once they become optional.IMO, that scene is probably supposed to be the resolution for that character. I doubt either he or Morrigan will show up again for a while, if ever. Imho the best choice would be a new start with new ideas,characters and with more creativity for this Franchise,seeing how they dragged for too long this Mythal/Morrigan subplot.
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Post by Absafraginlootly on Sept 5, 2016 4:26:48 GMT
I agree that we'll see Mythal again but not necesarily with flemeth. Morrigan is an option, but she was only introduced to the idea that flemeth didn't want to steal her body and it was a voluntary thing with Mythal just before the end of the game, I'm not sure she'd be ready (though I supposed we don't know whether mythals power has to be absorbed right away or whether it can float around for awhile). We can't discount the possibility that Flemeth had more daughters than just Morrigan and Yavanna.
To my mind Kieran no longer being the OGB improves his chances of turning up again. They wouldn't have to write multiple versions of him now that he's either human or non existent, so he's no more expensive than Warden Alistair was in DAI. Like AListair he could just as easily return for a interesting but more normal role, and be replaced by another npc when he doesn't exist like stroud/loghain replaced AListair if he was dead. And because he'd only be a human (mage?) he wouldn't be inevitably disappointing like the OGB version would have to be, since as an optional occurrence it could never have done anything earthshattering like say, Solas could.
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Post by dayze on Sept 7, 2016 0:51:42 GMT
I agree that we'll see Mythal again but not necesarily with flemeth. Morrigan is an option, but she was only introduced to the idea that flemeth didn't want to steal her body and it was a voluntary thing with Mythal just before the end of the game, I'm not sure she'd be ready (though I supposed we don't know whether mythals power has to be absorbed right away or whether it can float around for awhile). We can't discount the possibility that Flemeth had more daughters than just Morrigan and Yavanna. To my mind Kieran no longer being the OGB improves his chances of turning up again. They wouldn't have to write multiple versions of him now that he's either human or non existent, so he's no more expensive than Warden Alistair was in DAI. Like AListair he could just as easily return for a interesting but more normal role, and be replaced by another npc when he doesn't exist like stroud/loghain replaced AListair if he was dead. And because he'd only be a human (mage?) he wouldn't be inevitably disappointing like the OGB version would have to be, since as an optional occurrence it could never have done anything earthshattering like say, Solas could. You know Flemeth says that but the clothes she was going to give her on return did have the ability to lessen her will power so.....
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Post by Prince on Sept 8, 2016 3:12:57 GMT
To my mind Kieran no longer being the OGB improves his chances of turning up again. They wouldn't have to write multiple versions of him now that he's either human or non existent, so he's no more expensive than Warden Alistair was in DAI. Like AListair he could just as easily return for a interesting but more normal role, and be replaced by another npc when he doesn't exist like stroud/loghain replaced AListair if he was dead. And because he'd only be a human (mage?) he wouldn't be inevitably disappointing like the OGB version would have to be, since as an optional occurrence it could never have done anything earthshattering like say, Solas could. The problem is one of resources, sad to say. As you progress through games, it becomes harder and harder to justify spending money accounting for decisions and characters that only a small section of people will care about.
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Post by secretrare on Sept 16, 2016 9:56:47 GMT
I was never interested in this subplot since this child has never existed for me and so he has no future and i'm glad BioWare didn't gave to him any critical role since that would have been pretty much detrimental for me and all the players who negated the Dark ritual as well as the new players who never played DAO.
As for Morrigan i already said my opinion on her long ago in the official BioWare forum,I despise her like I never did with anyone in my whole existence and the DAI main plot should have never and ever forced her in my way and in mine Inquisition since there was no need of her for anything in the whole game.
Now that Gaider is finally gone i hope that if DA4 will ever be released she will not be in it with her lousy plot armor.
I didn't forget about Morrigan and with all the resources at my disposal i can make her life in Thedas a living hell with the best assassins of the crows of Antiva after her day and night (I even placed Briala as empress and dismissed lady Celine in order to be sure she has no allies) so she better fear my warden and think about how to survive against all her enemies rather than being in DA4 to bother my new PC.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 16, 2016 16:47:20 GMT
I think we have seen the last of Flemeth(and Kate Mulgrew).Mythal on the other hand.... Nooooooo!!! Say it isn't so...*sniff*....sadness. I wonder if that would be a permanent thing or could she change her mind later on...maybe...if the part was small enough...I have a hard time thinking about DA without Kate and Flemeth...It just wouldn't seem right.
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Post by oyabun on Sept 17, 2016 23:18:21 GMT
I remember this character Morrigan,she was first seen in DAO. Long time no see that game(7 years?!) but i do remember that there she was a sociopath and a little bit insane especially for her gaining pleasure and approval from the suffering of others or even outright advise to cause pain to others. She was even scheming to use the protagonist to save the same beast who caused the blight and killed thousands of people via darkspawns,i wonder why there was no option to kill her in the castle when she returned without permission in a private building solely to use the hero for her weirdo plan. Guess that they wanted to reuse het for another game and decided to adopt a plot armor.
I don't know who this Myhal and Kieran are however,crazy mages like her i guess?
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Post by Tuchanka Love on Sept 18, 2016 16:56:16 GMT
It really sucked the OGB turned out to be nothing, keiran could of been the next Daenerys Targaryen lol. I understand why they did it but still feels like lost potential. I honestly thought he was going to be a major player in the events to come. That's what DAO makes us think though. Regardless of the fact that having the OGB was optional.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 18, 2016 19:26:25 GMT
I remember this character Morrigan,she was first seen in DAO. Long time no see that game(7 years?!) but i do remember that there she was a sociopath and a little bit insane especially for her gaining pleasure and approval from the suffering of others or even outright advise to cause pain to others. She was even scheming to use the protagonist to save the same beast who caused the blight and killed thousands of people via darkspawns,i wonder why there was no option to kill her in the castle when she returned without permission in a private building solely to use the hero for her weirdo plan. Guess that they wanted to reuse het for another game and decided to adopt a plot armor. I don't know who this Myhal and Kieran are however,crazy mages like her i guess? Mythal was one of the leader of the elven pantheon, who in short was murdered by fellow Evanuris for reasons. Later on in history, Flemeth accepted her wisp form into her body. Vengeance among other things seems to drive them. Kieran is the potential son of Morrigan and the Hero of Fereldan/Alistair/Loghain. It is possible for him to not have Urthemiel's soul if the HoF had sexual intercourse with her, break off their relationship and did not perform the Dark Ritual. Flemeth ended up taking the Old God's soul anyway.
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Post by oyabun on Sept 18, 2016 21:10:45 GMT
I remember this character Morrigan,she was first seen in DAO. Long time no see that game(7 years?!) but i do remember that there she was a sociopath and a little bit insane especially for her gaining pleasure and approval from the suffering of others or even outright advise to cause pain to others. She was even scheming to use the protagonist to save the same beast who caused the blight and killed thousands of people via darkspawns,i wonder why there was no option to kill her in the castle when she returned without permission in a private building solely to use the hero for her weirdo plan. Guess that they wanted to reuse het for another game and decided to adopt a plot armor. I don't know who this Myhal and Kieran are however,crazy mages like her i guess? Mythal was one of the leader of the elven pantheon, who in short was murdered by fellow Evanuris for reasons. Later on in history, Flemeth accepted her wisp form into her body. Vengeance among other things seems to drive them. Kieran is the potential son of Morrigan and the Hero of Fereldan/Alistair/Loghain. It is possible for him to not have Urthemiel's soul if the HoF had sexual intercourse with her, break off their relationship and did not perform the Dark Ritual. Flemeth ended up taking the Old God's soul anyway. Many thanks for the infos Acno. I did not followed this story since the release of DA2 and there these characters were not present apart from Flemeth. This child not being an huge deal was not difficult to predict i don't know what company in the world can afford to make two separate games for a single choice actually i'm impressed that BioWare decided to make him a character they could have easly used a codex for him and nothing more but I guess they did it because Morrigan was in this game,and this mean that from now on they will probably not reuse Morrigan because this character is full of variables at this point even more than she was in DAO(there is even the well of sorrow). This Kieran from what i understood is not even a mage it was some sorta of vessel that Flemith and Mythal used to clean the Archdemon soul to later absorb it in order to use it i think. Anyway this Mythal seem to be dangerous at this point because a person devoted to revenge for such a long time van only be full of hatred and she will probably try to use Solas or the optional soul for something.
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Post by secretrare on Sept 19, 2016 12:01:44 GMT
I remember this character Morrigan,she was first seen in DAO. Long time no see that game(7 years?!) but i do remember that there she was a sociopath and a little bit insane especially for her gaining pleasure and approval from the suffering of others or even outright advise to cause pain to others. She was even scheming to use the protagonist to save the same beast who caused the blight and killed thousands of people via darkspawns,i wonder why there was no option to kill her in the castle when she returned without permission in a private building solely to use the hero for her weirdo plan. Guess that they wanted to reuse het for another game and decided to adopt a plot armor. It is just plot protection that Morrigan enjoys, and the fact that the character more or less rubs it in your face without any pretense of protection in the cutscenes is what is annoying.
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Post by oyabun on Sept 22, 2016 15:07:17 GMT
the DAI main plot should have never and ever forced her in my way and in mine Inquisition since there was no need of her for anything in the whole game. I never liked Morrigan as well since DAO and pretty much from the start since in DAO most of her comments were not construtive at all but just insults,the whole DR revelation and her deception just made things worse(obviously i had no intention to gamble the world for one GW)and I think that those who allowed it are either ultra-selfish or reckless but I'm glad i'm not this kind of person and i don't respect that choice nor those Wardens. More to the point since you are affected by a very negative bias here to the point of want revenge let me say one thing. The meaningless battles fought for revenge count for much less than a win win in real life(or virtual in this case,your PC of Thedas). Winning in life you'll get your revenge. So,in your case being an Hero a prince and LI of a divine,why the hell you will care for a loser like Morrigan?
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