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Post by adasirin on Mar 18, 2017 17:05:45 GMT
Could you please ELI5? I don't really get what you mean. I only see a glitchfest in the video. I am obviously not a game developer, so, it's all guessing. What I see here is: the player choose a preset and slightly modified it (practically changed skin color). However, at some point of the game (medical bay) that preset he used for his Raider is shown. This is how that unmodified preset looks like. We do know that the reason CC is so limited is because real scans were used, that, in turn, were used to make face animation smoother. My conclusion (agree, it can be an overstretch) is every preset (every scan) was run through every cutscene in hope to make it look good. That means there will never be more faces in CC, and they can not allow face features to be modified or animation will be ruined. In short - do not wait for a "magical patch" fixing CC, it will never happen. So am i misunderstanding you or are you suggesting that cutscenes in this game with Ryder are pre-rendered scenes rather than being rendered live by the engine? Because that just seems like it would be insanity for a game with a CC (even a limited CC). And if these scenes are pre-rendered, how would that explain the alternate Ryder we see in the video being a "glitch"? If it's pre-rendered, how could that possibly happen? Or maybe I'm misunderstanding you.
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...lives for biotic explosions. And cheesecake!
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Kappa Neko on Mar 18, 2017 17:06:07 GMT
After having seen really great preset tweaks I wonder... how the hell did default Sara end up looking so derpy and creepy?! Most of the results from players look a hundred times better. Maybe it's seeing faces in motion that makes them ugly? But then again Scott looks fine! The CC seems best suited for making non-white characters. Despite it being so restrictive, the results can still be really good. Even if strong similarities between Ryders of a certain preset are inevitable. Then again most female Shepards kind of looked like they're related. This phenomenon was worst in DA2 where they all looked like Natalie Portman. I could get a pretty good resemblance to myself in ME2, but no Hawke looked even remotely like me. Didn't try to recreate myself in DAI. I highly doubt it would be possible in MEA. Judging from what I've seen, the results are more diverse than the CC limitations suggest. It's still a huge step backwards, of course. And there is no logical reason not to offer an eyebrow color slider. Same thing as taking out purple eyes in ME3. No matter the studio, Bioware is keeping true to nonsensical design choices. Do they make potential employees take a test to determine their level of illogical thinking, and if they score high enough they hire, or what?
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The Elder King
N6
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Prime Posts: 19631
Posts: 6,370 Likes: 8,285
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by The Elder King on Mar 18, 2017 17:08:32 GMT
Did their previous CC allows to colour eyebrows separately? I don't recall at the moment. And yes, default Sara has somehow worse animations then custom Sara.
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, Jade Empire
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Post by Panda on Mar 18, 2017 17:10:47 GMT
Did their previous CC allows to colour eyebrows separately? I don't recall at the moment. And yes, default Sara has somehow worse animations then custom Sara. Yes, I was just wondering couple days why blond eyebrowns looked so bad and went with brown eyebrowns for my blond character instead.
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commandercryptarch
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion
Origin: DFMelancholine
XBL Gamertag: dfmelancholine
PSN: DFMelancholine
Posts: 294 Likes: 406
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion
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Post by commandercryptarch on Mar 18, 2017 17:38:50 GMT
Anyone else here think femRyder preset 5 looks like Sloane Kelly? Something tells me Sloane was made with the CC. Also , I have noticed what I feared about this limited CC...Clones. I was perusing the ShareyourRyders page on Reddit and I see an overabundance of femRyder Preset 9s.
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Amirit
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
Posts: 460 Likes: 594
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
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Post by Amirit on Mar 18, 2017 18:08:36 GMT
I am obviously not a game developer, so, it's all guessing. What I see here is: the player choose a preset and slightly modified it (practically changed skin color). However, at some point of the game (medical bay) that preset he used for his Raider is shown. This is how that unmodified preset looks like. We do know that the reason CC is so limited is because real scans were used, that, in turn, were used to make face animation smoother. My conclusion (agree, it can be an overstretch) is every preset (every scan) was run through every cutscene in hope to make it look good. That means there will never be more faces in CC, and they can not allow face features to be modified or animation will be ruined. In short - do not wait for a "magical patch" fixing CC, it will never happen. So am i misunderstanding you or are you suggesting that cutscenes in this game with Ryder are pre-rendered scenes rather than being rendered live by the engine? Because that just seems like it would be insanity for a game with a CC (even a limited CC). And if these scenes are pre-rendered, how would that explain the alternate Ryder we see in the video being a "glitch"? If it's pre-rendered, how could that possibly happen? Or maybe I'm misunderstanding you. You misunderstood. Not prerender - mocap. They used 20 faces (10 male, 10 female) to mocap face movements. These are the very faces we have in CC. And now it is impossible to make any changes to those facescans-presets without ruining animation in cutscenes. Hence, there will be no changes to CC we have now. (Still hope for at least better skin color variety and some skin texture)
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elanor
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We made it.
Posts: 612 Likes: 1,111
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Post by elanor on Mar 18, 2017 18:20:18 GMT
Anyone else here think femRyder preset 5 looks like Sloane Kelly? Something tells me Sloane was made with the CC. Also , I have noticed what I feared about this limited CC...Clones. I was perusing the ShareyourRyders page on Reddit and I see an overabundance of femRyder Preset 9s. It's one of the best presets. Nice eyes, eybrows. Unfortunately it's hard to make unique character in there.
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Post by adasirin on Mar 18, 2017 18:22:48 GMT
So am i misunderstanding you or are you suggesting that cutscenes in this game with Ryder are pre-rendered scenes rather than being rendered live by the engine? Because that just seems like it would be insanity for a game with a CC (even a limited CC). And if these scenes are pre-rendered, how would that explain the alternate Ryder we see in the video being a "glitch"? If it's pre-rendered, how could that possibly happen? Or maybe I'm misunderstanding you. You misunderstood. Not prerender - mocap. They used 20 faces (10 male, 10 female) to mocap face movements. These are the very faces we have in CC. And now it is impossible to make any changes to those facescans-presets without ruining animation in cutscenes. Hence, there will be no changes to CC we have now. (Still hope for at least better skin color variety and some skin texture) Right, I see. I think you might be right about that. There are probably technical limitations from the way they decided to use the facescans and mocap that led to the limitations we see in the CC (which was obviously a bad idea in the first place — they just shouldn't have used facescans and/or mocap if it was going to make the CC so restrictive). And I also think you're right that any changes we see to the CC in patches might therefore be quite superficial. But it still doesn't explain to me the mystery Ryder in the video. It doesn't look to me like it's simply an existing preset with the default Ryder's textures mistakingly applied. The whole face structure seems different than any one the presets we have. And it's too pretty and aesthetically pleasing to be a fluke glitch, at least in my eyes.
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Amirit
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
Posts: 460 Likes: 594
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
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Post by Amirit on Mar 18, 2017 18:40:04 GMT
You misunderstood. Not prerender - mocap. They used 20 faces (10 male, 10 female) to mocap face movements. These are the very faces we have in CC. And now it is impossible to make any changes to those facescans-presets without ruining animation in cutscenes. Hence, there will be no changes to CC we have now. (Still hope for at least better skin color variety and some skin texture) Right, I see. I think you might be right about that. There are probably technical limitations from the way they decided to use the facescans and mocap that led to the limitations we see in the CC (which was obviously a bad idea in the first place — they just shouldn't have used facescans and/or mocap if it was going to make the CC so restrictive). And I also think you're right that any changes we see to the CC in patches might therefore be quite superficial. But it still doesn't explain to me the mystery Ryder in the video. It doesn't look to me like it's simply an existing preset with the default Ryder's textures mistakingly applied. The whole face structure seems different than any one the presets we have. And it's too pretty and aesthetically pleasing to be a fluke glitch, at least in my eyes. To be sure we would have to see preset in action - in the game, because lighting in CC is still different from the game one. Aesthetics (agree, he looks good) for me are more to the evidence of the real scan in use. But I would not truly know, of course. The scans and mocap part was mentioned on Twitter, the rest is only guessing.
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire
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Post by SofNascimento on Mar 18, 2017 19:40:48 GMT
Just saw this: Well, this is the guy that said DAI was primarily a PC game...
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elanor
N3
We made it.
Posts: 612 Likes: 1,111
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Post by elanor on Mar 18, 2017 19:49:04 GMT
Just saw this: Well, this is the guy that said DAI was primarily a PC game... Well, we could say that wheel is similar...
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Eshaye
N2
“We are the beginning, you are the end.”
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: Ashaluna
PSN: Cynthe
Posts: 98 Likes: 253
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“We are the beginning, you are the end.”
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eshaye
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Eshaye on Mar 18, 2017 20:29:25 GMT
*KNEE slap !! Lol... Yeah that's all we got from from DAI, the color wheel.
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Inglu
N1
Where is my Claymore Biowur?
Posts: 37 Likes: 125
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Where is my Claymore Biowur?
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Post by Inglu on Mar 18, 2017 20:38:31 GMT
Speaking of color wheels, I want that for hair color. Biower plz!
Basically I just want that nice dark purple color from ME3 back. All the unnatural colors in this CC are so damn bright.
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, Jade Empire
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Post by Panda on Mar 18, 2017 21:17:39 GMT
Speaking of color wheels, I want that for hair color. Biower plz! Basically I just want that nice dark purple color from ME3 back. All the unnatural colors in this CC are so damn bright. Same, I had planned that I'd pick dark purple if that was option. The purple itself is just way too pastel-like to me.
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syllogi
N1
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
Origin: syllogie
Prime Posts: 7,258
Prime Likes: 1684
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
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Post by syllogi on Mar 18, 2017 21:32:39 GMT
What I don't get is why they took the DA:I character creator and whittled it down to almost useless. Who did they think would like this? They could have taken the DA:I cc, slapped a new UI on it, added some new tattoos and hair, and people might have commented on how similar it is, but generally, it would have made people happy. Instead, we got this severely limited CC that nobody likes.
I mean, I think I'll be able to make a custom character that isn't offensively ugly, but it will look like every other non-ugly Ryder, and half the npcs. That's disappointing, and we can see that they could have prevented this.
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Post by XKnight on Mar 18, 2017 22:38:44 GMT
so, have any devs responded to questions about the mystery Sara face?
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Post by adasirin on Mar 18, 2017 23:01:07 GMT
so, have any devs responded to questions about the mystery Sara face? Not so far, as far as I'm aware. I've asked them about it numerous times (as have others) but I haven't seen a single response. Kind of suspicious.
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Post by XKnight on Mar 19, 2017 2:50:09 GMT
so, have any devs responded to questions about the mystery Sara face? Not so far, as far as I'm aware. I've asked them about it numerous times (as have others) but I haven't seen a single response. Kind of suspicious. ah. well I hope we hear something from them soon. they've got to be aware of it by now. if it's a glitch/bug then they should just come out and squash any rumors of an update Sara model. though it would be interesting to hear their explanation for it.
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Post by zanephiri on Mar 19, 2017 4:50:08 GMT
Could it be that they used a custom Ryder in the previous save, then started a new playthrough with default Sara and somehow she 'kept' the tweaks to the face (that they had done to the custom Ryder). Because 'mystery sara' does look like default Sara (look at her nose) but with some tweaks. If she were a preset - default Sara that is - we could recreate the mystery Sara I feel.
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Frhozen
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 521 Likes: 1,571
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Frhozen on Mar 19, 2017 5:01:28 GMT
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Post by XKnight on Mar 19, 2017 5:28:04 GMT
oh, wow! if that's true, that's really messed up. usually you patch things to improve stuff, not make them look worse.....lol. wth, Bioware??!! however, I suppose that means they could easily "unpatch" it or patch the original face back in. or at least make it available as an editable preset.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 19, 2017 5:30:52 GMT
I actually like the default Sara Ryder as it is now, but the animations are off in several scenes and that doesnt help. It is why we are now associating that face with those terrible memes flying around. Still more presets and way to customise our characters could remove a lot of complaints about default Sara.
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PhantomJLK
N1
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, Mass Effect Andromeda
XBL Gamertag: Phantom JLK
Posts: 9 Likes: 11
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by PhantomJLK on Mar 19, 2017 5:39:08 GMT
I actually like the default Sara Ryder as it is now, but the animations are off in several scenes and that doesnt help. It is why we are now associating that face with those terrible memes flying around. Still more presets and way to customise our characters could remove a lot of complaints about default Sara. I think the default looks "fine", but sadly all of the custom presets suck, and I like to play my "Sara Ryder" and because of the customization(or lack there of of) I cant do that, which is disappointing.
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Eshaye
N2
“We are the beginning, you are the end.”
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: Ashaluna
PSN: Cynthe
Posts: 98 Likes: 253
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“We are the beginning, you are the end.”
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eshaye
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Eshaye on Mar 19, 2017 5:42:02 GMT
OHHHH! So mystery solved. Well shit.
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scooby609
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, Mass Effect Andromeda
PSN: Scooby_609
Posts: 13 Likes: 10
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by scooby609 on Mar 19, 2017 6:33:28 GMT
OHHHH! So mystery solved. Well shit. Actually they changed alot on Sara, her ears, nose, jawline, skin texture, eyes, & eyebrows ... if they can do all that in a patch to the default Sara then why is the character creator so barebones? Really why did they feel the need to change her at all? IMHO the pre-patch Sara looks 100% better!
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