Why does Mass Effect 3 feel so different?

Yup, and I can't help but feel, gameplay and mechanics aside, if the characters in ME2 had been poorly written and nowhere as popular as they are, then ME2 wouldn't be the rightly beloved game it is today. It's characters and writing for those characters made the game. It was a meaningful and wholly worthwhile spin on the whole Seven Samurai style narrative, recruiting a bunch of people with unique talents to take down an unstoppable force. 

I love ME2. I love all three of the games equally.

What I don't love is people criticising ME3 without acknowledging a huge part of ME3's problems is the failings of ME2 in moving crucial story pieces forwards, better setting the stage for the final game. Instead ME3 was overwhelmed by having to actually follow up from ME1 properly story wise, as well as try and fit everyone and everything else in. 

As for why ME3 feels different, I'd say it's ME2 that feels different. Everything about it, to be honest. I love ME1 dearly but playing though that game today can be a chore it is so archaic. It already felt dated when ME2 came out, spit shiny and new. 

ME3 had some of the best (and in cases, worst) dialogue of the trilogy in my opinion.

ME2's dialogue shined really only in character moments. ME3's dialogue overall felt less info-dumpy like ME1, and extended its strengths from the character exchanges in ME2, to other areas in the game.

A lot of people like to complain about autodialouge.  yea getting the exact same statement but having to pick lines that end the same point regardless of what order or what you do really an improvement.

In some respects, I suspect the answer to that is yes.  There are only so many decisions that the game should realistically be keeping track of.  Any other decision above that number would have to be, by default, a completely unimportant one.  In the case of dialogue, it would mean that the various branches of the dialogue to be selected from would be essentially the same and all have essentially the same effect in the game... That is the NPCs would have to react the same to it or else it would be a decision the game would have to keep track of.

I have little doubt that many players respond more positively to being fed a bunch of these pseudo-decisions than hearing their PC say things automatically... but I don't see it as an improvement... rather as something that slows down gameplay and nothing else.  I'm all for having as many relevant dialogue choices in the game as possible.  The more that have a real effect on either the game's outcome or in the way the NPCs react to the PC.  However, as for the rest of them... they're a pacifier... filler... nothing more; and I'll gladly do without the interruption of having to click a button to get my PC to say what amounts to autodialogue anyways.

I could always get behind this, but I think on an aesthetic/artistic level is where 3 feels more different. I think now that I'm playing all 3 again, the thing that especially stands out to me is that, yes, ME2 does feel like a slight departure from ME1 in terms of tone, style etc. because Miranda and Illusive Man are these hollywood actors and Miranda literally is Yvonne Strahovski put into a game with her face and voice and overall the "cool" factor has been turned way up as has the striking art-designs, but whenever ME1-characters show up, Ashley/Kaidan, Anderson, Udina etc, even Joker they look and feel EXACTLY the same as they did in ME1. That's where ME3 was a huge departure. Anderson was this calm, collected ex-military peaceman (at least it feels that way). He's clear and calm when he talks and he's very articulate. Come ME3 and he's this gruff, "Hell, damn, sonuvabitch, shit, c'mon!" person. He's still the same mentor and he still has the same respectable prescence but he's down in the streets with all the grunts. Sure you can headcanon it and say he's like this whenever he engages with military, but he didn't seem like he was putting on a mask in ME1 or ME2 at all -- he feels different. Same with Udina. His hair is now black, gone is his bumblingly egotistical sniveling replaced with greed and scheming and even his wonderfully hammy accent is gone. He was not the same character. Ashley is too edgy and Kaidan is suddenly a bro (and he digs Shepard yeshomo). If you had a relationship with Ash in ME1 you can talk her down at Horizon in ME2 without too much fighting and she ends telling you "Just be careful with what you're doing." but then in ME3 she goes back to "WHY THE HELL WERE YOU WITH CERBERUS WTFBBQ ARE YOU REAL?".

Nevermind the fact that ME3 opens with Anderson going "Is this what Shepard warned us about?" as if he never heard of the Reapers before. Also, Quantom Entanglement communication looks different. I should accept cosmetic changes but gah, ME3 just felt like too much of a change from ME2 and it failed for me when it came to refering to ME1's plot.

It was mainly marketed for them but yes, it was probably a request by some higher ups maybe Greg/Ray, maybe from EA or whatever to make a point out of making the game inviting to newcomers. That said, they really did try to make 3 versions of the game: Newcomer, ME12 players and Action Mode for idiots.

But they definitely prioritized the newcomer. Liara's dialogue when you have romanced her in 1 and 2 keeps resetting as she goes "It's good to be just friends" and you have to convince her for the third time to be more than that despite re-establishing with her in ME2 LotSB. Same with the entire introduction. They were actually working on the import version first which can partially be seen in the leaked script. Shepard was supposed to enter his trial after the Batarian Relay got destroyed and then the Reapers would attack during the trial, not this defense-comittee bullshit. They ended up streamlining it so it was mostly newcomer scenes with variating dialogue depending on import vs non-import.

But funny enough you can recover several unused scenes in the game files that was meant for import saves, some of which have been restored with the ME3Recalibrated mod. There's a scene right after Earth which normally starts with James going "Hey, where are we going!?" which if you have ME3Recalibrated opens way differently with Joker re-introducing himself as well as EDI and Shepard being like "Good to hear you guys again!" and THEN James comes over going "Hey what the hell!?"

But dialogue options are not always about "Making choices (TM)". Autodialogue killed one fundamental aspect that made the first two games great: Player-agency for MY SHEPARD and any player's Shepard. I agree with you the "economy" issue of ME1 where you get 5 dialogue options and 3 of them make Shepard say the same thing was pretty bad but honestly I liked that more than Autodialogue. I like the feeling of "click to make Shepard talk" and him going on autopilot especially when he expresses opinions in ME3 was criminal. Not every dialogue option has to lead to some sort of outcome, nobody ever believed every dialogue choice would unless they were dumb.

ME3 tackling the issue of "how to pace dialogue choices" with having more automated dialogue was a totally counterproductive approach to letting us identify with our own character. In ME1/2 Shepard felt like my character and he felt like your character, or she, in ME3 I feel like I'm playing BioWare's character.

This comes down to the fact that in the end there are no choices like you say; everything is finite. Anything I pick has been prescripted by BioWare themselves but if they design it well it gives you the illusion that you have the agency and freedom of choice, and if they don't do it well you don't. The autodialogue and choices here and there approach has been done in Deus Ex and Witcher before Mass Effect 3 so maybe they thought it was a good design trend but really, the reason it didn't sit well with me or anyone else complaining about autodialogue was because Shepard used to be my character. I used to be able to say "goodbye" at every turn or pick that awesome neutral option and Shepard would usually keep his mouth shut if I didn't want him to be vocal about his opinions, but that is completely automated most of ME3. It's only a complain because Shepard is a character established by many lines of branching dialogue in ME1/2 but then not in 3. And as a result Shepard of ME3 felt like the author's character rather than the player's

It was the best place to start!

It is an option.  The option is "How does MY Shepard react"?  Even if it doesn't change the trajectory of the conversation, at least Shepard would react more in a way that I think is appropriate than what someone else thinks is quickest and easiest to manage.  Granted there still have to be limits, this is a cRPG (in theory) rather than a tabletop game.  

People did complain about the dialogue.  They complained About Shepard's idiotic lines before the Alliance brass.  They complained about Shepard being upset about Thessia's fall more than losing Vendetta. They complained about Shepard being p*ssed at Joker for making a joke about the fall of Thessia.  All autodialogue or might as well have been autodialogue.  It's right up there with canon friendships.  Garrus always being your bro no matter what, or Liara always being your semi-canon girlfriend.  Telling people how their character is role-played WILL annoy people.

"Excuse me, I ordered an action RPG, not an action-shooter.  COuld I get what I ordered pls?"

And yet in the end you still end up in the same place.  The only thing auto dialogue does is bypass the pointless and needless options that allow the story to flow better. And actually presents you with choices when they can actually matter or have an effect.



Two choices that have a noticeable difference in the responds.

Paragon option  has Shepard saying how knocking over targets isn't real training for war. With Sanders stating that the students are unique assets and that the galaxy at war needs them.

Renegade option has Shepard saying how they need every resource they can get. Which has Sanders responding that they wish it was from someone else.  And that bless the older ones for volunteering that they couldn't say no to that.

Rather then needing half a dozen replies to end at the same point you get 2 that still allow you to make choices to define your Shepard.  Is your Shepard one who sees the using of children in combat zones who have had no formal military training as bad. Or is it one who is willing to throw kids with no formal military training into a warzone if it is for the greater good.

15:27-16:20

Another chance to show what kind of Shepard you are. A understanding one who realizes these are just kids not trained military soldiers. Or are you a hard ass that doesn't care that they are kids.

16:23-16:44

Yet another chance for that personalization of Shepard. A woman who has killed someone for the first time is asking a trained battle hardened solider about the guilt and feeling of taking someone elses life. Are you a Shepard who takes the compassionate route with this person. Or are you the Shepard that just bluntly tells them that they were asking for it.

17:39-18:03

You can take the yes I agree with you Jack about Cerberus or you can take the STFU I just saved your ass now get ready to leave route.

You know I'm noticing a pattern hear. Even with all the auto dialogue "problem" there are still plenty of opportunities to craft, identify and have your Shepard act how they want to act given different circumstances. 

19:47-20:11

You can choose to reply with a genuine or snarky comment about Jack becoming a teacher to the biotic students.

28:13-29:05

You can be supportive Shepard that encourages them or blunt statement about Cerberus lying their ass off with Jack having to very different responds as well.  One supporting them and the other getting in the girls face telling them to look at the scars that they are nothing but slabs of meat on the table if Cerberus gets them.

31:48-32:21

You can peacefully get the students to disarm the shield or you can forcibly break it again defining what your Shepard is.

34:14-34:35

You can talk to David two different ways simply making conversation or directly ask him about helping against Cerberus. Again allowing for a defining moment of what kind of Shepard you want.

36:56-38:51

Do you decide to put the untrained non military teenagers on the front line of the battle or do you put them in support position behind the front line. Again defining the Shepard you are playing.


It is almost as if you are still capable of identifying with your character and making choices that help define what kind of character your Shepard really is.