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Post by phoray on Feb 27, 2017 19:59:05 GMT
Nope, he never survived in any of my playthroughs, though I did start a couple of games with the intention to spare him. I know his background now and he's more sympathetic in my eyes than when I dealt with him the first time around, but it's still not enough for me. That, and I like Alistair too much - I can't bring myself to do what he'll consider betrayal.  Internet ate my well written post. I found it meaningful to put hardened Alistair on throne and have Loghain do the Us. It has good friendship drama with a bittersweet ending where he forgives you.
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Post by phoray on Feb 27, 2017 20:03:19 GMT
Also, the argument for recruiting Loghain is that he is this grand strategizer...but I've beat the Archdemon just fine without him, so unless they were to suddenly put Loghain in charge of the war effort, his expertise is totally wasted.
He's not even Warden Commander by DAI. His grand skills of war are totally ignored.
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Post by Sifr on Feb 28, 2017 4:20:06 GMT
Even though the Wardens are meant to forgive past crimes, his actions didn't exactly endear him to those in the order, who never really accepted him as part of the order.
He ruined his reputation in his homeland and he always had antipathy for Orlais, so the Wardens would not want to damage relations with either nation by making him Warden-Commander in either nation
After what happened with Sophia Dryden, they'd not want to risk another exiled political figure being tempted to abuse the position as she did, especially in light of Loghain's actions during his stint as Regent of Ferelden.
Loghain did rise to the position of Senior Warden and was entrusted with knowledge of Corypheus, which not many in the order are aware of. This suggests that he may have gain some degree of standing in the Warden ranks?
Then again, it could be that Corypheus was considered nothing more than a myth, even by those in the know. Loghain's investigation into the Vimmark Prison might have been a snipe hunt intended to keep him busy and out of Orlais for a while?
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Post by skeksi on Mar 17, 2017 20:44:40 GMT
I spared Loghain in my first/canon playthrough. At the time it was partly down to the way I was playing my Warden (good hearted, somewhat spiky, but leans towards pragmatism in her strategy), and partly down to her (and my) irritation with Alistair - I played her as being somewhat irritated by Alistair from the get-go, and whilst she starts to warm up to him by the time of the Landsmeet, it wasn't enough to sway my Warden. An extra warden seemed like a good idea, particularly one with battle and strategy experience. It would take Loghain out of the political arena, and chances were good he would get killed doing it. Alistair has left all the major decisions up to my Warden at this point, despite her literally being thrown into this on her first day on the job, and suddenly he decides her decisions aren't good enough any more? He makes a big song and dance about how the Wardens are so important to him, and yet he is willing to walk away from them DURING A BLIGHT - you know, the big important part of their job - because he is unhappy about a decision his commanding officer (which she basically seems to be by his own unwillingness to lead) made. He makes it clear he doesn't want to rule, that he doesn't believe he would be as suited to it as Anora, and then suddenly he comes around to the idea of seizing the throne so that he can kill this guy. Nah, my warden was having none of that. Throne for Anora, recruitment for Loghain, several pints at The Hanged Man for Alistair  Don't get me wrong, I understand why Alistair acted this way, I like that the DA series has characters with both positive and negative traits, that you might love or loathe depending on you and the character you're playing. I'm planning to try an Alistair-romance playthrough at some point and have a character with a different perspective on him. As for Loghain himself, I actually quite enjoyed him as a companion. Bringing him and Wynne along to Return to Ostagar was a particular highlight, as were his interactions with my dog. It was an interesting insight into how he perceived his actions, and his motivations - I don't feel like he really recovered mentally from the Orlesian occupation, and to him anything was better than that, nothing was more important than preventing it from ever happening again. Or at least, that was part of it. I headcanoned him and my Warden coming to have a reluctant respect for each other, even though I don't think Tabris would ever truly forgive him for selling the alienage elves.
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Post by XJlock on Jun 26, 2017 18:10:32 GMT
Loghain interfered with my mission and tried to have me killed far too many times for me to allow him to breathe any longer.
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Post by Sunegami on Dec 22, 2017 16:18:46 GMT
Loghain is one of the most interesting characters I've ever encountered in any media. My opinion of him improved greatly after reading "The Stolen Throne". That said, I've never spared him in Origins, but I did mod one of my Inquisition playthroughs to recognize Loghain as a Warden with Alistair/Cousland on the throne. I was more surprised that it worked than anything).  Loghain even survived the Nightmare! I like Alistair too much to actually make Loghain a Warden in-game-- my Cousland also agreed with Alistair's view that being a Warden is an honor that Loghain doesn't deserve-- but his knowledge and prowess as a general are too valuable to waste, so I headcanon that instead of straight up killing him, Loghain was shoved in Ft Drakon after the Landsmeet and dealt with after everything else was taken care of. I'm still working out how to justify him becoming a Warden in my canon universe, though. 
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copper
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Post by copper on Dec 25, 2017 1:49:56 GMT
I love Loghain and pretty much always recruit him. My canon run is an Aeducan who actually is guilty of fratricide, and similar to Loghain, uses his time with the wardens to attempt to redeem himself. For him it would've been unfair to not offer Loghain the same chance that Duncan offered him.
I feel more conflicted about making Alistair King to be honest. I like Alistair a lot as a character, but he just doesn't seem qualified for the job. I'd rather have Anora be Queen and keep both Alistair and Loghain as wardens.
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Post by Sifr on Dec 25, 2017 8:53:52 GMT
Even though I personally enjoy seeing Loghain kept alive for storytelling and meta-game purposes, currently wrestling with the problem of whether or not it'd be in-character for a City Elf to chose to spare him?
Any suggestions from people who've spared him as City Elves, what rationale did you use while roleplaying to justify the decision and have it make sense in-character?
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Post by romice on Jan 11, 2018 20:10:42 GMT
Even though I personally enjoy seeing Loghain kept alive for storytelling and meta-game purposes, currently wrestling with the problem of whether or not it'd be in-character for a City Elf to chose to spare him? Any suggestions from people who've spared him as City Elves, what rationale did you use while roleplaying to justify the decision and have it make sense in-character? Actually, it's my canon, that a City Elf spared Loghain. She was a pragmatic person, who decided that the Wardens could use Loghain for their own good. She already took in Zevran and he did become her best friend and lover. She also wasn't a fun of being a Warden in the first place, so it felt more like punishing Loghain, than honouring him. I should probably add that she (and I, since it was my first playthrough and I kind of internalized her feelings about characters) wasn't a fan of Alister, so she wasn't moved by his tantrum
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Post by Deleted on Jan 11, 2018 23:11:44 GMT
Nope.
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Post by q9j9p on Jan 26, 2018 8:32:56 GMT
After what he did... Never... Here's proof... Strike Me There And I Glow
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Post by Iddy on Mar 13, 2018 12:18:00 GMT
Anyone here noticed how Loghain's sacrifice (archdemon) is completely forgotten in the games?
The codices never mention it and Threnn still talks about how she was rejected for being loyal to him.
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Post by doflamingodonquijote on Mar 13, 2018 16:25:05 GMT
Anyone here noticed how Loghain's sacrifice (archdemon) is completely forgotten in the games? The codices never mention it and Threnn still talks about how she was rejected for being loyal to him. You are absolutly right and I hate that.If it isn't our self prejudiced hero to kill the AD,nobody remembers anything,makes no sense at all if you ask me considering that Loghain in good or bad was already known to the world,it wasn't just some random guy.
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Post by oyabun on Mar 21, 2018 19:05:04 GMT
Anyone here noticed how Loghain's sacrifice (archdemon) is completely forgotten in the games? The codices never mention it and Threnn still talks about how she was rejected for being loyal to him. Well what you expect from a protagonist centric game? If Loghain kills the AD the epilogues say that people made a Big statue for him,but there is no sign of it in DAI,nothing
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Post by Iddy on Mar 22, 2018 1:25:34 GMT
Anyone here noticed how Loghain's sacrifice (archdemon) is completely forgotten in the games? The codices never mention it and Threnn still talks about how she was rejected for being loyal to him. Well what you expect from a protagonist centric game? If Loghain kills the AD the epilogues say that people made a Big statue for him,but there is no sign of it in DAI,nothing Nothing what?
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Post by oyabun on Mar 22, 2018 2:14:08 GMT
Well what you expect from a protagonist centric game? If Loghain kills the AD the epilogues say that people made a Big statue for him,but there is no sign of it in DAI,nothing Nothing what? His statue that should be overlooking Orlais and made people talking about Loghain,it's in the epilogue of Origins,but you can't find it in DAI
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Mar 22, 2018 17:03:53 GMT
His statue that should be overlooking Orlais and made people talking about Loghain,it's in the epilogue of Origins,but you can't find it in DAI The epilogue slides in DAO have been stated by Bioware to be only rumors rather than concrete facts.
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Post by oyabun on Mar 23, 2018 17:58:44 GMT
His statue that should be overlooking Orlais and made people talking about Loghain,it's in the epilogue of Origins,but you can't find it in DAI The epilogue slides in DAO have been stated by Bioware to be only rumors rather than concrete facts. Treating epilogues as rumors may work only at times. If the epilogues says that mages will probably have more rights in the future because the warden was a mage,it makes perfect sense for it to be just a rumor who may not happen at all in the sequel,but in the case of Loghain it's just a statue we are talking about,either is there or either there isn't.
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Post by operationathena on Jul 7, 2019 20:32:09 GMT
Man, I love Loghain. I remember hating seeing Alistair leave the party after the Landsmeet, but I really got into Loghain and asking him about his perspective on all the events. Fantastically written character, very Jaime Lannister-esque in that they're made to be a horrible villain from the start, but by the end you empathize and understand their motives and actions.
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Post by adni on Jul 12, 2019 14:28:12 GMT
Nope, always killed him 
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Post by Pounce de León on Jul 12, 2019 14:31:39 GMT
Traitors get the axe.
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Post by LadyofNemesis on Jul 12, 2019 19:35:06 GMT
Depends on the playthrough and Warden I play generally though...he doesn't survive 
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Post by bellesorciere on Oct 21, 2019 1:37:29 GMT
Slavery's a hard no from me. Loghain gets the blade.
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Post by Nightscrawl on Oct 21, 2019 4:39:13 GMT
I redid my canon last year and spared Loghain for the first time. I'm glad I made the decision. The dialogue options I chose in the moment were raw RP and I was pleased with how it all turned out. {duel concludes} Loghain: I was wrong. There's a strength in you I have not seen since Maric died. I yield.
Aaron Cousland: I accept your surrender.
Alistair: I didn't just hear you say that. You're going to let him live? After everything he's done?! Kill him, already!
Riordan: Wait! There is another option! The teyrn is a warrior and general of renown. Let him be of use. Let him go through the Joining.
Aaron: You want to make him a warden? Why?
Riordan: There are three of us in all of Ferelden. And there are... compelling reasons to have as many wardens on hand as possible to deal with the archdemon.
Anora: The Joining itself is often fatal, is it not? If he survives, you gain a general. If not, you have your revenge. Doesn't that satisfy you?
Alistair: Absolutely not! Riordan, this man abandoned our brothers and then blamed us for the deed! He hunted us down like animals. He tortured you! How can we simply forget that?
Aaron: Riordan has a point, we should put him through the Joining.
Alistair: Joining the Wardens is an honor, not a punishment! Name him a warden and you cheapen us all. I will not stand next to him as a brother. I won't!
Aaron: Not all of us have spotless honor, you know.
Alistair: Some things can't be undone or forgiven. This goes way beyond having spotless honor, we aren't talking about a minor hiccup in his past! I didn't want to be king. I still don't. But... if that's what it takes to see Loghain get justice, then I'll do it. I'll take the crown.
Anora: Listen to this! can you see how disastrous a king he'd be, putting his own selfish desires above the needs of his country? You can't seriously support him.
Aaron: You're right. Anora, take the crown.
Alistair: You're siding with her? How could you do this to me? You of all people?
Aaron: Even you think she'd be a better ruler.
Alistair: What's wrong with you? He's repeatedly tried to kill us both, and you side with him over me?
Aaron: Alistair, don't be hysterical.
Alistair: I'm not. I'm perfectly lucid. I will not stand beside Loghain. And neither should you. I guess I don't have any choice, do I? I'm leaving.
Anora: I'm afraid it's not so simple as that, Alistair.
Alistair: You already got what you wanted. Your murdering father gets a place amongst the Grey Wardens. What else could you want from me?
Anora: Your life, unfortunately. So long as you live, rebellions can be raised in your name. Our land cannot endure another civil war. I must call for your execution.
Aaron: No. You owe me a boon. Let him go, Anora.
Anora: This is what you would ask? Very well. Though I think it a mistake. Alistair, you may leave on condition that you swear before this Landsmeet that you renounce all claim to the throne for yourself and all your heirs.
Alistair: That's what it'll take, huh? Fine. I don't want anything to do with this place or any of your people. Ever. I swear it. Time for me to go.
Aaron: If you're leaving, leave.
Alistair: That does make it easier. Take care of yourself. Aaron accepted his initial surrender only as an automatic thing, since it was a duel. When he accepted the suggestion from Riordan, it was about practicality: there were only three wardens in Ferelden, two of them being green recruits; in that moment, he felt that the great threat of the darkspawn had priority over anything else. When Alistair objects and throws a hissy fit, Aaron dug in, partly out of spite. Alistair refused leadership, deferring to Aaron for the nearly a year as they went through that entire ordeal. He didn't want that responsibility, so it was up to my Warden to lead and carry that weight. Then when something doesn't go Alistair's way he finally wants to have that power and responsibility? I won't say that my Warden had the best behavior in the scene, either, as that final line was a result of him being angry at Alistair's display and lack of priority. As I said, the options I chose were roleplay and how Aaron felt in the moment. It was a pretty great feeling.
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Post by Catilina on Oct 21, 2019 10:36:23 GMT
I redid my canon last year and spared Loghain for the first time. I'm glad I made the decision. The dialogue options I chose in the moment were raw RP and I was pleased with how it all turned out. {duel concludes} Loghain: I was wrong. There's a strength in you I have not seen since Maric died. I yield.
Aaron Cousland: I accept your surrender.
Alistair: I didn't just hear you say that. You're going to let him live? After everything he's done?! Kill him, already!
Riordan: Wait! There is another option! The teyrn is a warrior and general of renown. Let him be of use. Let him go through the Joining.
Aaron: You want to make him a warden? Why?
Riordan: There are three of us in all of Ferelden. And there are... compelling reasons to have as many wardens on hand as possible to deal with the archdemon.
Anora: The Joining itself is often fatal, is it not? If he survives, you gain a general. If not, you have your revenge. Doesn't that satisfy you?
Alistair: Absolutely not! Riordan, this man abandoned our brothers and then blamed us for the deed! He hunted us down like animals. He tortured you! How can we simply forget that?
Aaron: Riordan has a point, we should put him through the Joining.
Alistair: Joining the Wardens is an honor, not a punishment! Name him a warden and you cheapen us all. I will not stand next to him as a brother. I won't!
Aaron: Not all of us have spotless honor, you know.
Alistair: Some things can't be undone or forgiven. This goes way beyond having spotless honor, we aren't talking about a minor hiccup in his past! I didn't want to be king. I still don't. But... if that's what it takes to see Loghain get justice, then I'll do it. I'll take the crown.
Anora: Listen to this! can you see how disastrous a king he'd be, putting his own selfish desires above the needs of his country? You can't seriously support him.
Aaron: You're right. Anora, take the crown.
Alistair: You're siding with her? How could you do this to me? You of all people?
Aaron: Even you think she'd be a better ruler.
Alistair: What's wrong with you? He's repeatedly tried to kill us both, and you side with him over me?
Aaron: Alistair, don't be hysterical.
Alistair: I'm not. I'm perfectly lucid. I will not stand beside Loghain. And neither should you. I guess I don't have any choice, do I? I'm leaving.
Anora: I'm afraid it's not so simple as that, Alistair.
Alistair: You already got what you wanted. Your murdering father gets a place amongst the Grey Wardens. What else could you want from me?
Anora: Your life, unfortunately. So long as you live, rebellions can be raised in your name. Our land cannot endure another civil war. I must call for your execution.
Aaron: No. You owe me a boon. Let him go, Anora.
Anora: This is what you would ask? Very well. Though I think it a mistake. Alistair, you may leave on condition that you swear before this Landsmeet that you renounce all claim to the throne for yourself and all your heirs.
Alistair: That's what it'll take, huh? Fine. I don't want anything to do with this place or any of your people. Ever. I swear it. Time for me to go.
Aaron: If you're leaving, leave.
Alistair: That does make it easier. Take care of yourself. Aaron accepted his initial surrender only as an automatic thing, since it was a duel. When he accepted the suggestion from Riordan, it was about practicality: there were only three wardens in Ferelden, two of them being green recruits; in that moment, he felt that the great threat of the darkspawn had priority over anything else. When Alistair objects and throws a hissy fit, Aaron dug in, partly out of spite. Alistair refused leadership, deferring to Aaron for the nearly a year as they went through that entire ordeal. He didn't want that responsibility, so it was up to my Warden to lead and carry that weight. Then when something doesn't go Alistair's way he finally wants to have that power and responsibility? I won't say that my Warden had the best behavior in the scene, either, as that final line was a result of him being angry at Alistair's display and lack of priority. As I said, the options I chose were roleplay and how Aaron felt in the moment. It was a pretty great feeling. I did it twice:
1. My Cousland married Anora, Alistair left, when Aedan didn't let him execute Loghain but conscripted him – for Anora as wedding gift. Isuppose everyone had benefit with this decosion, except Alistair (and I felt, Zevran deserves better than become a left-hand-lover... while seems he's not against this)
2. In my current PT Aerland Amell also conscripted Loghain, but insisted the arranged marriage between Alistair and Anora – for Ferelden.
I didn't regret my decision, while I didn't regret when my Warden executed him, or let Alistair to do it. Both acceptable decision. On the one hand, Loghain can be useful, Riordan is right. Also Loghain's perfect sacrifice material, in DAO (postponed execution) and DAI as well. (And I love his cameo in the Inquisition.) On the other hand – the Warden can agree with Alistair, that there are sins whose are hard to forgive, and/or Loghain's execution can serve the good: people should see, that no matter how high position someone have: justice can reach everyone.
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