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Post by Deleted on Jan 17, 2017 23:15:23 GMT
I'd be interested to pick Jien's brain about this. This also makes me hope some characters in game are as vocal as we are here about this decision Also like Hanako mentioned with Sloane Kelly, I find it very interesting the Head of Security has gone rogue... I'm hoping we are able to be vocal about it, especially considering how the game starts for us. I'm afraid however that our perspective will be forced like has been the case in some previous games. I'm thinking that after things have gone bad, Sloane and Jien butt heads with each other(Sloane is known to have done this with superiors before) over what path the Initiative should take. Jien probably supports the pacifist approach where Sloane supports showing the Kett we are not to be messed with. Both make valid arguments, but in the end the other heads side with Jien over Sloane. However Sloane's approach doesn't fall on deaf ears and many in the Initiative support her, leading to an inevitable coup attempt. The attempt is foiled, and Sloane and those who followed her are exiled forming their own group, giving context to what Drack and Sarah say in the December video. I would also hope we can express (as Ryder) upset at the lack of defenses on all the ships given we know some are attacked, leading to losses of lives, that could have been avoided had Jien and other higher ups (presuming there are any who have the power to make such decisions) taken the extra precautions. Your above point regarding Sloane is very interesting, and I agree this could very well be the case. It makes sense that people within the AI would strongly disagree with Jien regarding her pacifist approach, and Sloane's stance against it will definitely gain weight and following after her fears are proven right after the attack and loss of lives. This also reminds me of how pleased I am that a lot of the powers that be within the Initiative are women this time around, whereas in the original trilogy within the Systems Alliance most were men. We had Ambassador Goyle in the books, but in the games on the human front there weren't many. The above theory regarding Jien and Sloane's feud, potential coup etc. also makes be believe (hope) that Ryder takes the initiative to research local alien defenses, and possibly add a defense weapon or gun to the Tempest. After all the briefings are set before we arrive in Andromeda, so having no weapons at the start given Jien's stance makes sense to then potentially having the option to upgrade given the attacks on other ships.
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Post by colfoley on Jan 17, 2017 23:22:36 GMT
I'm hoping we are able to be vocal about it, especially considering how the game starts for us. I'm afraid however that our perspective will be forced like has been the case in some previous games. I'm thinking that after things have gone bad, Sloane and Jien butt heads with each other(Sloane is known to have done this with superiors before) over what path the Initiative should take. Jien probably supports the pacifist approach where Sloane supports showing the Kett we are not to be messed with. Both make valid arguments, but in the end the other heads side with Jien over Sloane. However Sloane's approach doesn't fall on deaf ears and many in the Initiative support her, leading to an inevitable coup attempt. The attempt is foiled, and Sloane and those who followed her are exiled forming their own group, giving context to what Drack and Sarah say in the December video. I would also hope we can express (as Ryder) upset at the lack of defenses on all the ships given we know some are attacked, leading to losses of lives, that could have been avoided had Jien and other higher ups (presuming there are any who have the power to make such decisions) taken the extra precautions. Your above point regarding Sloane is very interesting, and I agree this could very well be the case. It makes sense that people within the AI would strongly disagree with Jien regarding her pacifist approach, and Sloane's stance against it will definitely gain weight and following after her fears are proven right after the attack and loss of lives. This also reminds me of how pleased I am that a lot of the powers that be within the Initiative are women this time around, whereas in the original trilogy within the Systems Alliance most were men. We had Ambassador Goyle in the books, but in the games on the human front there weren't many. The above theory regarding Jien and Sloane's feud, potential coup etc. also makes be believe (hope) that Ryder takes the initiative to research local alien defenses, and possibly add a defense weapon or gun to the Tempest. After all the briefings are set before we arrive in Andromeda, so having no weapons at the start given Jien's stance makes sense to then potentially having the option to upgrade given the attacks on other ships. Heck your idea gives me hope that maybe the decision point between Jien and SLoane might be a bit more low key and natural. Whereas in BioWare games of yore you had to chose between which point you supported via dialgue. What if its more subtle and we can chose to emulate one side or another. Sloane pushes for more military, Jien pushes for more peace, so we/ Ryder know the options are out there and then we can arm our ships or not depending on who we agree with.
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Post by General Mahad on Jan 17, 2017 23:24:41 GMT
Discussions of plot or lore are off the mark I think. This isn't about plot or lore, it's about logic and common sense. You simply do not venture into unknown space unarmed when so much may be riding on the success of your mission and you have little to no outside help. It just isn't done. "But we can stealth" doesn't cover it. "Political wtf decision by the leader" doesn't cover it. Remember in Aliens when Gorman orders the marines in without ammo? There there actually was a logical reason for it, firing weapons could pierce the walls and they were near a reactor or something. But what did the marines do (specifically Vasquez and the other smartgun dude)? Scoff and hide some mags to put back in anyway. Oh and I think Hicks still had a shotgun. So no, there is no excuse for not having some type of defensive armamment. And while not having weapons on vehicles doesn't mean the game crashes and burns in and of itself, it does signify that the writers are once again making incredibly bad and illogical decisions and ignoring what makes sense for whatever "artistic" pursuit they're chasing this time. And that is significant and a cause for concern. Because "it's not hard sci-fi", "it's a space opera" and "we've already had space magic" are again no excuse for such a departure from common sense. We're supposed to suspend our disbelief about eezo and "mass effect fields" and the aliens as presented and things like that. That does not mean that human or human like characters that are supposed to act normally like real people would can suddenly go off the wall and we just accept it. Yes we have blue space babes and talking dinosaurs and now rock monsters apparently. I'm on board with that. But don't tell me up is down because "fiction" or "fantasy" and expect me to just smile and nod. Exactly, especially since ME history has show that the Milky Way has had plenty of hostile first encounters and conflicts with pirates, bandits, terrorists, and rogue states. There's already precedence, so why not take action to prepare especially given how it's likely to be a ONE WAY TRIP TO AN UNKNOWN GALAXY. Logic, what art thou asked the BioWare writers.
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Post by spacebeetle on Jan 17, 2017 23:33:06 GMT
I would also hope we can express (as Ryder) upset at the lack of defenses on all the ships given we know some are attacked, leading to losses of lives, that could have been avoided had Jien and other higher ups (presuming there are any who have the power to make such decisions) taken the extra precautions. Your above point regarding Sloane is very interesting, and I agree this could very well be the case. It makes sense that people within the AI would strongly disagree with Jien regarding her pacifist approach, and Sloane's stance against it will definitely gain weight and following after her fears are proven right after the attack and loss of lives. This also reminds me of how pleased I am that a lot of the powers that be within the Initiative are women this time around, whereas in the original trilogy within the Systems Alliance most were men. We had Ambassador Goyle in the books, but in the games on the human front there weren't many. The above theory regarding Jien and Sloane's feud, potential coup etc. also makes be believe (hope) that Ryder takes the initiative to research local alien defenses, and possibly add a defense weapon or gun to the Tempest. After all the briefings are set before we arrive in Andromeda, so having no weapons at the start given Jien's stance makes sense to then potentially having the option to upgrade given the attacks on other ships. Heck your idea gives me hope that maybe the decision point between Jien and SLoane might be a bit more low key and natural. Whereas in BioWare games of yore you had to chose between which point you supported via dialgue. What if its more subtle and we can chose to emulate one side or another. Sloane pushes for more military, Jien pushes for more peace, so we/ Ryder know the options are out there and then we can arm our ships or not depending on who we agree with. Or maybe, and it would be the natural choice for me, we put them back together. Because a united Ai with its head of security back would be much safer, I think.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 17, 2017 23:33:34 GMT
Heck your idea gives me hope that maybe the decision point between Jien and SLoane might be a bit more low key and natural. Whereas in BioWare games of yore you had to chose between which point you supported via dialgue. What if its more subtle and we can chose to emulate one side or another. Sloane pushes for more military, Jien pushes for more peace, so we/ Ryder know the options are out there and then we can arm our ships or not depending on who we agree with. All this is also making me wonder whether we'll be able to explore what they showed for the Nexus in the briefing if it is going to be potentially attacked by the Kett. Widening the net a bit beyond just adding weapons to the Tempest, I'm hoping that the upgrades feature from ME2 regarding the ship is present in MEA, I liked being able to upgrade the Normandy in that way, especially in prep for the Suicide Mission. I think that we have a research room this could be the case, and that it isn't just for armour, weapons and crafting etc. I mean at the end of the day, given the Nomad's state, I'm sure most folks here would prefer to add a weapon to the Nomad over a slick new paintjob
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Post by colfoley on Jan 17, 2017 23:34:54 GMT
Heck your idea gives me hope that maybe the decision point between Jien and SLoane might be a bit more low key and natural. Whereas in BioWare games of yore you had to chose between which point you supported via dialgue. What if its more subtle and we can chose to emulate one side or another. Sloane pushes for more military, Jien pushes for more peace, so we/ Ryder know the options are out there and then we can arm our ships or not depending on who we agree with. Or maybe, and it would be the natural choice for me, we put them back together. Because a united Ai with its head of security back would be much safer, I think. Theory time with Foley: I think its very likely that Alec is going to be the new AI head of security which will leave the door open for Ryder to take over as pathfinder. But otherwise yes, i think that would be the best option, but that will probably be within the course of the dialog of the game we get to make that choice.
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Post by colfoley on Jan 17, 2017 23:36:32 GMT
Heck your idea gives me hope that maybe the decision point between Jien and SLoane might be a bit more low key and natural. Whereas in BioWare games of yore you had to chose between which point you supported via dialgue. What if its more subtle and we can chose to emulate one side or another. Sloane pushes for more military, Jien pushes for more peace, so we/ Ryder know the options are out there and then we can arm our ships or not depending on who we agree with. All this is also making me wonder whether we'll be able to explore what they showed for the Nexus in the briefing if it is going to be potentially attacked by the Kett. Widening the net a bit beyond just adding weapons to the Tempest, I'm hoping that the upgrades feature from ME2 regarding the ship is present in MEA, I liked being able to upgrade the Normandy in that way, especially in prep for the Suicide Mission. I think that we have a research room this could be the case, and that it isn't just for armour, weapons and crafting etc. I mean at the end of the day, given the Nomad's state, I'm sure most folks here would prefer to add a weapon to the Nomad over a slick new paintjob I think people missed this post, but you provide me a perfect time to reiterate. From a gameplay perspective, not a story or lore or logic one, I am thrilled that the Nomad is unarmed given how much of a fail the Hammerhead and Mako were.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 17, 2017 23:54:09 GMT
Or maybe, and it would be the natural choice for me, we put them back together. Because a united Ai with its head of security back would be much safer, I think. Theory time with Foley: I think its very likely that Alec is going to be the new AI head of security which will leave the door open for Ryder to take over as pathfinder. But otherwise yes, i think that would be the best option, but that will probably be within the course of the dialog of the game we get to make that choice. Very interesting discussion now going on here among all of you... I'm enjoying lurking here immensely.
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Post by colfoley on Jan 17, 2017 23:56:12 GMT
Theory time with Foley: I think its very likely that Alec is going to be the new AI head of security which will leave the door open for Ryder to take over as pathfinder. But otherwise yes, i think that would be the best option, but that will probably be within the course of the dialog of the game we get to make that choice. Very interesting discussion now going on here among all of you... I'm enjoying lurking here immensely. Col Foley, Satisfaction guaranteed or I will return your likes free of any additional charge.
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Post by praetorian on Jan 18, 2017 0:32:37 GMT
I like where this thread is going.
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Post by dropzofcrimzon on Jan 18, 2017 0:35:20 GMT
Ok I was at work
What did I miss
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Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2017 0:42:29 GMT
Guys, I'll be honest: I hope daddy Ryder will be available for conversations throughout the game, the same as your sibling, instead of trying to avenge him or rescue him from alien hands. I think we can all agree this just had been used too many times already. Plus, we'll get to show him that we can do a much better job than him at being the pathfinder, huh? "Hey daddy, N7 my ass! Look at the real epicness here, huh, old man? "
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Post by colfoley on Jan 18, 2017 0:43:43 GMT
Guys, I'll be honest: I hope daddy Ryder will be available for conversations throughout the game, the same as your sibling, instead of trying to avenge him or rescue him from alien hands. I think we can all agree this just has been used too many times already. Plus, we'll get to show him we can do a much better job than him at being the pathfinder, huh? "Hey daddy, N7 my ass! Look at the real epicness here, huh, old man? " Then we proceed to crash into a mountain and ruin everything.
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Post by hammerstorm on Jan 18, 2017 0:48:29 GMT
Guys, I'll be honest: I hope daddy Ryder will be available for conversations throughout the game, the same as your sibling, instead of trying to avenge him or rescue him from alien hands. I think we can all agree this just has been used too many times already. Plus, we'll get to show him we can do a much better job than him at being the pathfinder, huh? "Hey daddy, N7 my ass! Look at the real epicness here, huh, old man? " Then we proceed to crash into a mountain and ruin everything. Ryder: "Look dad, no hands..........." Nexus: "we are sorry, but we have lost contact with Ryder" Dadryder: "who's the best now kid? "
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Post by colfoley on Jan 18, 2017 0:50:32 GMT
Then we proceed to crash into a mountain and ruin everything. Ryder: "Look dad, no hands..........." Nexus: "we are sorry, but we have lost contact with Ryder" Dadryder: "who's the best now kid? " : I read that in Harrison Ford's voice.
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Post by dropzofcrimzon on Jan 18, 2017 0:54:16 GMT
Ok I was at work What did I miss The amount of times I come back from work, return to some threads I posted in 8 hours ago, and find... ... ... well that was not helpful
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Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2017 1:00:22 GMT
The amount of times I come back from work, return to some threads I posted in 8 hours ago, and find... ... ... well that was not helpful Ok well to sum up a continued debate about the decision of not having Tempest weapons, illogical reasons, why they chose it, the same old, before a brief divergence into theories about Jien and Sloane Kelly, especially regarding the latter being Head of Security and going rogue, and Jien possibly being the reason behind why the Tempest and other ships are weaponless and the potential fallout from that when we get to Andromeda and may be attacked by whoever it is that attacks the Hyperion or other ARK in the trailer.
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Post by dropzofcrimzon on Jan 18, 2017 1:02:46 GMT
well that was not helpful Ok well to sum up a continued debate about the decision of not having Tempest weapons, illogical reasons, why they chose it, the same old, before a brief divergence into theories about Jien and Sloane Kelly, especially regarding the latter being Head of Security and going rogue, and Jien possibly being the reason behind why the Tempest and other ships are weaponless and the potential fallout from that when we get to Andromeda and may be attacked by whoever it is that attacks the Hyperion or other ARK in the trailer. So Jien is a tree hugging leave loving lil snowflake? Greeeeeeeat
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Post by colfoley on Jan 18, 2017 1:04:53 GMT
Ok well to sum up a continued debate about the decision of not having Tempest weapons, illogical reasons, why they chose it, the same old, before a brief divergence into theories about Jien and Sloane Kelly, especially regarding the latter being Head of Security and going rogue, and Jien possibly being the reason behind why the Tempest and other ships are weaponless and the potential fallout from that when we get to Andromeda and may be attacked by whoever it is that attacks the Hyperion or other ARK in the trailer. So Jien is a tree hugging leave loving lil snowflake? Greeeeeeeat i believe the technical term is 'hippy in space'
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Post by dropzofcrimzon on Jan 18, 2017 1:07:12 GMT
So Jien is a tree hugging leave loving lil snowflake? Greeeeeeeat i believe the technical term is 'hippy in space' god I hope I get to see her breaking down while we are attacked only so I can use her as a human shield and then put her head on a spike to remind people what happens to freaking hippies
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Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2017 1:10:19 GMT
Ok well to sum up a continued debate about the decision of not having Tempest weapons, illogical reasons, why they chose it, the same old, before a brief divergence into theories about Jien and Sloane Kelly, especially regarding the latter being Head of Security and going rogue, and Jien possibly being the reason behind why the Tempest and other ships are weaponless and the potential fallout from that when we get to Andromeda and may be attacked by whoever it is that attacks the Hyperion or other ARK in the trailer. So Jien is a tree hugging leave loving lil snowflake? Greeeeeeeat Just a theory. Would explain the decision behind no weapons on the Tempest if she were calling the shots. *pun*
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Post by dropzofcrimzon on Jan 18, 2017 1:13:50 GMT
So Jien is a tree hugging leave loving lil snowflake? Greeeeeeeat Just a theory. Would explain the decision behind no weapons on the Tempest if she were calling the shots. *pun* .....goddamn hippies
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Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2017 1:22:11 GMT
Just a theory. Would explain the decision behind no weapons on the Tempest if she were calling the shots. *pun* .....goddamn hippies #makelovenotwar
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Post by keiji on Jan 18, 2017 1:22:12 GMT
God damn all this controversy is ruining my hype seriously. ME is my favorite saga so...
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Post by colfoley on Jan 18, 2017 1:24:09 GMT
God damn all this controversy is ruining my hype seriously. ME is my favorite saga so... I wouldn't honestly listen. Its rare that someone else's negativity has effected how i have enjoyed my entertainment and media. And BioWare games, for all their admitted flaws and stuggles, are still pretty much my favorite games ever.
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