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Post by dropzofcrimzon on Jan 18, 2017 1:25:06 GMT
#makelovenotwar I will make love to peebee right after I land an asteroid straight on the kett home world tyvm
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Post by keiji on Jan 18, 2017 1:41:08 GMT
God damn all this controversy is ruining my hype seriously. ME is my favorite saga so... I wouldn't honestly listen. Its rare that someone else's negativity has effected how i have enjoyed my entertainment and media. And BioWare games, for all their admitted flaws and stuggles, are still pretty much my favorite games ever. Yes, you're right but seriously, why ? WHY ? WHY ???
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Post by dropzofcrimzon on Jan 18, 2017 2:12:25 GMT
Even the Normandy and Kodiak had to run and leave a ground team unsupported during ME3 despite being armed. Considering you're such a small scout ship I don't think weapons would help you survive any of the other options for very long and any weapons that might swing that equation are going to slow you down and reduce your other option of running. Basically you can be mediocre at both engaging and running by including weapons, you can maximize your chances of engaging by adding a main gun and heavy armour or you can maximize your chances of running by having light armour and no weapons. I think you have a much better chance of survival with the latter. Apart from anything else, having weapons makes you a target from anyone that perceives you as a threat. So, rather than protecting you, they could actually contribute to the reason you're being attacked in the first place! The Normandy and the Kodiak had to run because they went up against Reapers. That's a bit of a false equivalence right here. I mean, if there are Reapers in Andromeda the AI is fucked either way, the entire point is to prepare for at least *some* of the threats, not every threat which is remotely possible, just the more common once that you can solve with relatively simple measures. I see these arguments repeat themselves all the time, that some weapons wouldn't "really" be able to help against an actual threat. What you fail to realize is that running away and shooting back are solutions to different problems. Without weapons you are forced to run away even if you are attacked by something a tenth of your size, like a fighter, or a small gunship. Hell, they might be fast enough to stay right on you and possibly damage you until you reach FTL because they are very fast and maneuverable themselves. The point of weapons is not so that you will be able to blow up dreadnought-class threats, the point is so that you will be able to handle the things that running away from would be inefficient, stupid, wasteful or lead to dire consequences in terms of lives lost. Weapons on a ship this size should be able to handle threats up to frigate-class, essentially anything with a similar speed and maneuverability. Your assertion that you can either be average at running and at shooting or really good at either is simply not correct. The size and weight of small weapons (or even something like the Thanix) doesn't seem to be massive enough to really have a big impact on a ship's ability to maneuver or run. (look at recon vehicles and ships from today, they are usually very fast, but still carry some weapons) Also, the Tempest is supposedly built in a similar style to the Normandy, which is a good example for a fast ship that can still pack a punch. You don't even need the same level of punch as the Normandy (even if it would be nice just in case), since the purpose here is not to go against anything too big or powerful, just give you more tools to deal with the average threats you may encounter. As for "weapons making you a threat": A. Why are we carrying so many weapons when on foot? Is this not a threat? If that was indeed the theme, maybe ME:A's core gameplay loop would have made sense if it was a "walking simulator", and all we had was equipment to allow diplomacy or running away. B. Many exploration ships from history and popular culture prove you wrong. The enterprise was well armed despite their mission statement, and so were many ancient exploration vessels from earth's history. C. Aliens from another galaxy shouldn't really be able to recognize your weapons even if they had sufficient scanning equipment, especially if they are hidden and disguised as something else. D. Since the weapons a Corvette like the Tempest can carry are hardly enough to blow a planet in two, and probably not enough to really threaten anything bigger than a Frigate, logically they shouldn't be enough to make an otherwise peaceful alien race hostile. Being able to defend yourself is not the same threatening someone. E. Having weapons might actually have an opposite effect, showing that you have some teeth and claws might lessen a potential enemy's enthusiasm to engage you in battle. Especially when they discover that you are a mere exploration vessel, and consider what the actual warships might be carrying. shhhhhh Bioware snowflake writers might feel hurt by the logic In all seriousness if it turns out it is because of a space hippy that we have no weapons I just hope we get to pop an hypersonic cap in her ass and hopefully we get some weapons mounted in the sequel
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Post by keiji on Jan 18, 2017 2:25:07 GMT
Why did I click on this thread
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Post by pdusen on Jan 18, 2017 3:21:42 GMT
God damn all this controversy is ruining my hype seriously. ME is my favorite saga so... Calling this a "controversy" is kind of an overstatement.
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Post by Ivory Samoan on Jan 18, 2017 3:22:43 GMT
God damn all this controversy is ruining my hype seriously. ME is my favorite saga so... I'm not sure it would be classed as controversy since we have so little to go on.......it's just a talking point at this stage. We still don't know what armaments the rest of the fleet has, surely, for love of Talos, there are some armed ships in the AI. This isn't Fleet & Flotilla, The feel-good musical (or is it?)
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Post by CrutchCricket on Jan 18, 2017 4:16:05 GMT
GannayevOfDream's earlier post brings up several valid points. But to be honest, a lot of other people here like yourself are having a real hard time processing this decision. Now I do find it nonsensical, at this moment in time, having not played the game. But I'm not going to let something like this get to me so much. Nor am I going to let it colour my entire perceptions of the game. Now I am not saying this is true of you or any other poster, but its fair to say that some are taking this much harder than others, and ruling out people's justifications completely by your own opinion that there isn't a good enough reason that there are no weapons. And that any reasoning will fail. Automatically. Aaryn Flynn tweeted "Why do you think weapons are the only way to protect people?" This is true, and we also don't necessarily know what he is referring to here. He could be referring to potential unseen and unknown features the Tempest may have that aren't guns that can be used as a defense should there be an enemy attack. Because of course the creators haven't ignored the fact we are entering an entirely new galaxy and are at immediate risk of being attacked. The trailer confirms this. Sooo, there are numerous possibilities to this, given that the creators haven't simply ignored the obvious, and that we need suitable defense, especially research and scout vessels, right in the thick of it. I still think we could get upgrades. I also think that like EDI, SAM may well have a cyberwarfare suite and a possible means of hacking enemy ships own weapons and disabling them or whatever thing the writers can do to justify it. But at this rate you and plenty of others have just decided against it, any and all possible justifications within the game itself we may not know of. Plot can excuse this decision. We don't even know the plot yet, but the possibility is there for it to do so. Its really only your opinion that the plot can't excuse it, because you are so up in arms about there being no guns on the ship, and no explanation will be good enough to justify it. Hey maybe its just mine opinion that a potential explanation can. I just think some people are making a mountain out of a molehill with this. I've addressed almost all of this already in previous posts. There is simply zero reason to not have armed vehicles given the setting and situation. None. Stealth is not sufficient. Speed is not sufficient. Esoteric tech that neutralizes attackers without actual pew-pews might objectively work, in a vacuum, but as I said, that sort of stuff is usually reserved for Sufficiently Advanced Aliens or the like. It will not be justified on our ships since we have neither the technology nor the inclination natively to just start with something like that. Human or human-like thinking prefers the simplicity of just shooting things until they're no longer a problem. Cyberwarfare might suffice in limited cases but not against dumb targets (like asteroids for example) or vastly different tech. And again, it's batshit to assume we can hack entirely different lifeforms and their technology in an entirely new galaxy from the get-go. What if we can't? Then we shoot it. Period. That tweet is so empty of justification, it's almost insulting. My retort would be "Can you prove that they're not? That when all else fails or is inapplicable, the universal defense and guaranteed permanent solution is something other than making the offending party forcibly cease to exist?" Because that's the level of assurance that's absolutely necessary to do what the AI is trying to do, and it's needed at all facets of the operation. There is no escaping this fact. Now again, the reason why this is relevant to the rest of the game is not the thing itself but what it indicates- that the writers have a very shocking gap of reasonable and common sense decisions in what they've tried to create or at best give zero fucks about maintaining some basic level of reality and cohesion to their scenario. This bodes very ill for the franchise. They were moving away from the "art" of ME3 into a direction that promised a fresh sci-fi start. But signing off on something like this it makes me hesitant to trust them with a children's book.
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Post by maximusarael020 on Jan 18, 2017 4:22:05 GMT
i believe the technical term is 'hippy in space' god I hope I get to see her breaking down while we are attacked only so I can use her as a human shield and then put her head on a spike to remind people what happens to freaking hippies Well that escalated quickly.
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Post by maximusarael020 on Jan 18, 2017 4:23:43 GMT
God damn all this controversy is ruining my hype seriously. ME is my favorite saga so... I wouldn't honestly listen. Its rare that someone else's negativity has effected how i have enjoyed my entertainment and media. And BioWare games, for all their admitted flaws and stuggles, are still pretty much my favorite games ever. Agreed. I love the Nick Cage Ghost Rider movie. Everyone else hate? IDC. Also the game Evolve. That game rocks. It should have been way more popular (I blame their DLC/Launch scheme).
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Post by maximusarael020 on Jan 18, 2017 4:28:29 GMT
God damn all this controversy is ruining my hype seriously. ME is my favorite saga so... I wouldn't worry too much. This is basically the equivalent of people being upset that in the new Mario game for the Switch that Mario can jump on his own tossed hat as a platform. But physics! Lore! ARRRGGHHH!!! It doesn't really matter unless you pay way too much attention to it. Like watching a CinameSins video (which I love, btw, but I don't let it ruin my love of those movies).
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Post by colfoley on Jan 18, 2017 4:31:28 GMT
God damn all this controversy is ruining my hype seriously. ME is my favorite saga so... I wouldn't worry too much. This is basically the equivalent of people being upset that in the new Mario game for the Switch that Mario can jump on his own tossed hat as a platform. But physics! Lore! ARRRGGHHH!!! It doesn't really matter unless you pay way too much attention to it. Like watching a CinameSins video (which I love, btw, but I don't let it ruin my love of those movies). Oooh I love watching CinemaSins. But I prefer CinemaWins, if you have seen them. Always adds a lot more perspective to a movie.
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Post by maximusarael020 on Jan 18, 2017 4:33:35 GMT
I wouldn't worry too much. This is basically the equivalent of people being upset that in the new Mario game for the Switch that Mario can jump on his own tossed hat as a platform. But physics! Lore! ARRRGGHHH!!! It doesn't really matter unless you pay way too much attention to it. Like watching a CinameSins video (which I love, btw, but I don't let it ruin my love of those movies). Oooh I love watching CinemaSins. But I prefer CinemaWins, if you have seen them. Always adds a lot more perspective to a movie. I have not seen them yet, but IMMEDIATELY going to watch them, because you are one of my favorite posters here and I trust your judgement!
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Post by CrutchCricket on Jan 18, 2017 4:36:36 GMT
I wouldn't worry too much. This is basically the equivalent of people being upset that in the new Mario game for the Switch that Mario can jump on his own tossed hat as a platform. But physics! Lore! ARRRGGHHH!!! It doesn't really matter unless you pay way too much attention to it. Like watching a CinameSins video (which I love, btw, but I don't let it ruin my love of those movies). Yeah that's a relevant comparison. Here's a better one. No weapons would be like Mario's Yoshi being unable to eat enemies because #wecomeinpeace. You would be justified in asking what the hell the point of Yoshi even is anymore? "But Yoshi could totally run away guys!!" I wasn't aware this was Mass Effect: Mario though. Can we bang Peach? Can we choose who to nuke, her or Luigi? Is Toad the temp squadmate who always dies at the start? Teh people want to know! Also, Cinemasins and the first Ghost Rider are awesome. So props for that at least.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2017 4:53:39 GMT
i believe the technical term is 'hippy in space' Jane Fonda? I think Jien will be more like Rachel Weisz.
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Post by Sartoz on Jan 18, 2017 4:54:34 GMT
,.-~*´¨¯¨`*·~-.¸-(_MEA_)-,.-~*´¨¯¨`*·~-.¸
I don't understand the view that the Tempest needs to be armed. The way I see it:
First, a scout vessel by definition is a lone ship that goes into unknown territory or into enemy controlled areas where we cannot provide support in case of hostilities (even the Nexus is hidden in a dense asteroid field). So, the Tempest main means of survival is to avoid detection. Giving the scout Stealth Tech increases its survival. Making it a "fast vessel for its class" adds another layer of survivability in the case where running is the best option.
Second, Its prime assignment is not to defend outposts, people or colonies. That responsibility lies elsewhere. Its prime purpose is to help the Pathfinder find a new home(s) for humanity.
The idea here is for (Phase I) the Nexus to come to Andromeda, hide and perform initial scouting operations. At all times it is to remain hidden from the possibility Helious is unfriendly, which turns out to be true. The Nexus is not an armed armada. However, personally, I would definite include a few cruisers but the Initiative being a civilian project I doubt Earth Navy Command would agree to send a few of their cruiser along (carried within the Nexus).
Phase II is for the colony vessels (the ARKs) to follow some time later. On arrival, the Nexus would give them information about possible worlds they found for colonization. Except, planned events went belly up. The ARKs disappeared and the Hyperion arrived somewhere else, attacked by the Khet (I think) and crashed ( from the video trailer).
Enter our Ryder who is handed a can of worms. Ryder's main responsibility is to find a human colony world to settle. At the same time avoid giving the Khet or any hostile species any hints as to where they are located in the cluster. Not at this point in time, anyway. The Initiative / expedition is ham strung by recent rogue elements that furthers weakens the expedition.
Covert operations (in space at least) is the only way to survive. A scout vessel is not match for a hostile navy destroyer let alone a cruiser or heavier vessel. Arming the Tempest gives it a zero chance of survival against such enemy ships. In this scenario, Outposts must defend themselves while the Tempest continues its search for a new home.
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Post by sgtreed24 on Jan 18, 2017 6:40:09 GMT
But hence all, or at least most, of the AIs logical problems are hence plugged. Sure it still makes Jien super over optimistic about their chances/ dumb, but I can see the mind set. And I can see their actions and descisions being logical given that mindset. Of course if I knew about this mindset going into the AI I would personally never join the expedition. I'd be interested to pick Jien's brain about this. This also makes me hope some characters in game are as vocal as we are here about this decision Also like Hanako mentioned with Sloane Kelly, I find it very interesting the Head of Security has gone rogue... I feel like... this could turn into the gamestop salarian from whichever Mass Effect that guy was in. Where he makes fun of things the fans were so adamant about before release. HINT HINT BIOWARE
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Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2017 6:46:18 GMT
I'd be interested to pick Jien's brain about this. This also makes me hope some characters in game are as vocal as we are here about this decision Also like Hanako mentioned with Sloane Kelly, I find it very interesting the Head of Security has gone rogue... I'm hoping we are able to be vocal about it, especially considering how the game starts for us. I'm afraid however that our perspective will be forced like has been the case in some previous games. I'm thinking that after things have gone bad, Sloane and Jien butt heads with each other(Sloane is known to have done this with superiors before) over what path the Initiative should take. Jien probably supports the pacifist approach where Sloane supports showing the Kett we are not to be messed with. Both make valid arguments, but in the end the other heads side with Jien over Sloane. However Sloane's approach doesn't fall on deaf ears and many in the Initiative support her, leading to an inevitable coup attempt. The attempt is foiled, and Sloane and those who followed her are exiled forming their own group, giving context to what Drack and Sarah say in the December video. I like this, in the sense that the ideological approach to the armament decision allows for the potential of more well rounded and defined characters and situations that can be developed in-game. What you're saying here is a good example. I hope our characters can question the reasoning of leadership and possibly choose to help or destroy/re-unite factions. I disagree with the presumption that the lack weapons on the Tempest is a pacifist stance as Jien's character appears to me to be more pragmatic. Sloane's history, conversation and behavior conveys possible instability under certain circumstance (near spotless? trail of bodies?) and self-righteousness (problems with superiors). Traits that if she is charismatic and positioned well in a hierarchy could appear as confidence and attract like-minded followers and persuade people under her command. A coup attempt is reasonable if a stressful situation arises that a personality like Sloane's rationalizes she is better equipped to handle. Jien seems to be a type A visionary genius who gets things done and appears to be a person that plans thoroughly and for contingencies to the best of their abilities with who and what they have to work with. Jien would see a coup coming from Sloane a mile away. Or such is my hope and take at the moment.
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Post by sgtreed24 on Jan 18, 2017 6:51:18 GMT
Even the Normandy and Kodiak had to run and leave a ground team unsupported during ME3 despite being armed. Considering you're such a small scout ship I don't think weapons would help you survive any of the other options for very long and any weapons that might swing that equation are going to slow you down and reduce your other option of running. Basically you can be mediocre at both engaging and running by including weapons, you can maximize your chances of engaging by adding a main gun and heavy armour or you can maximize your chances of running by having light armour and no weapons. I think you have a much better chance of survival with the latter. Apart from anything else, having weapons makes you a target from anyone that perceives you as a threat. So, rather than protecting you, they could actually contribute to the reason you're being attacked in the first place! Snip for length This is such a good post. For most of this argument I've just been thinking that a lack of weapons, while it could say the AI is a friendly envoy, it could also say to any species encountered... hey look at the fresh meat and attack you thinking you're "easy pickings."
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Post by nem7 on Jan 18, 2017 7:40:04 GMT
We are going into risky expedition. What we gonna ride? MAKO with turrels? No, Lambo with big wheels!
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Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2017 12:31:07 GMT
But to be honest, a lot of other people here like yourself are having a real hard time processing this decision. Now I do find it nonsensical, at this moment in time, having not played the game. But I'm not going to let something like this get to me so much. Nor am I going to let it colour my entire perceptions of the game. Ruling out people's justifications completely by your own opinion that there isn't a good enough reason that there are no weapons. And that any reasoning will fail. Automatically. But at this rate you and plenty of others have just decided against it, any and all possible justifications within the game itself we may not know of. Plot can excuse this decision. We don't even know the plot yet, but the possibility is there for it to do so. Its really only your opinion that the plot can't excuse it, because you are so up in arms about there being no guns on the ship, and no explanation will be good enough to justify it. Hey maybe its just mine opinion that a potential explanation can. I just think some people are making a mountain out of a molehill with this. I've addressed almost all of this already in previous posts. There is simply zero reason to not have armed vehicles given the setting and situation. None. Stealth is not sufficient. Speed is not sufficient. Esoteric tech that neutralizes attackers without actual pew-pews might objectively work, in a vacuum, but as I said, that sort of stuff is usually reserved for Sufficiently Advanced Aliens or the like. It will not be justified on our ships since we have neither the technology nor the inclination natively to just start with something like that. Human or human-like thinking prefers the simplicity of just shooting things until they're no longer a problem. Cyberwarfare might suffice in limited cases but not against dumb targets (like asteroids for example) or vastly different tech. And again, it's batshit to assume we can hack entirely different lifeforms and their technology in an entirely new galaxy from the get-go. What if we can't? Then we shoot it. Period.That tweet is so empty of justification, it's almost insulting. My retort would be "Can you prove that they're not? That when all else fails or is inapplicable, the universal defense and guaranteed permanent solution is something other than making the offending party forcibly cease to exist?" Because that's the level of assurance that's absolutely necessary to do what the AI is trying to do, and it's needed at all facets of the operation. There is no escaping this fact. Now again, the reason why this is relevant to the rest of the game is not the thing itself but what it indicates- that the writers have a very shocking gap of reasonable and common sense decisions in what they've tried to create or at best give zero fucks about maintaining some basic level of reality and cohesion to their scenario. This bodes very ill for the franchise. They were moving away from the "art" of ME3 into a direction that promised a fresh sci-fi start. But signing off on something like this it makes me hesitant to trust them with a children's book. Like I said in my post, it appears nothing will convince you that there is a reason for this decision. I'm not trying to persuade or convince people, and I respect your opinion on this matter. I just find it disappointing that you are willing to let something like this completely deter you from seeing, that there still could be a reason. I'm not holding out hope for one good enough to completely justify the decision, but from the trailers, we see some AI ships under attack. The briefings are all set before all this takes place, before the attacks. So there may even be unforeseen fallout from this decision within the game itself. I think that statements like there is zero reason for this are premature at this stage, given we have yet to fully see the context of this decision within the game itself. Sure, as it stands, it seems ridiculous. I can't assess whether any of the developers are surprised by this response to the Tempest and Nomad having no weaponry. It would seem to me that they shouldn't be surprised there would be some against this decision, on the precedent of what we've seen in the past games alone. The second statement I highlighted in bold... now I'm not sure if this is a wider cultural thing pertaining to guns and control and what not, but I'm against that philosophy of just shooting anything that we can't try and evade or defend ourselves from etc. I still am waiting to see how this holds out given the game, and what we've seen in the trailers vs. the optimism in the pre-Andromeda arrival briefings. The last bit. Again as I have mentioned twice, I think it is still very early to assume that the writers all suffer from lack of reasonable logic and common sense etc. and that we are going to see completely loss of reality and cohesion in the game. I really don't see how this bodes ill for the very franchise? That statement seems to me to be ridiculously hyperbolic. Your entitled to that assessment of things as they stand right now, but I think letting something like this, before we've played the game and see how things pan out, effect your assessment of the entire franchise is vastly overblown. I think at the end of the day if you are steadfast in seeing a basic level of reality and cohesion, whatever you consider those two to be in regards to the generic elements of the franchise, then you aren't probably going to enjoy the game and that would be your loss. I'm sorry and somewhat surprised people have been so deeply effected by this that there perception of the franchise has changed. But I think a lot of people, from now to launch, and after launch, will be able to get over this and still enjoy the game, and may even find that there is an important plot point that is tied to the structure and leadership of AI as to why scouting and research vessels are being sent out, weaponless. I could be wrong, and there is no damn reason. I'd still enjoy the game, and not let this lapse effect my experience of it, or the franchise itself.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2017 13:01:00 GMT
I'm hoping we are able to be vocal about it, especially considering how the game starts for us. I'm afraid however that our perspective will be forced like has been the case in some previous games. I'm thinking that after things have gone bad, Sloane and Jien butt heads with each other(Sloane is known to have done this with superiors before) over what path the Initiative should take. Jien probably supports the pacifist approach where Sloane supports showing the Kett we are not to be messed with. Both make valid arguments, but in the end the other heads side with Jien over Sloane. However Sloane's approach doesn't fall on deaf ears and many in the Initiative support her, leading to an inevitable coup attempt. The attempt is foiled, and Sloane and those who followed her are exiled forming their own group, giving context to what Drack and Sarah say in the December video. I like this, in the sense that the ideological approach to the armament decision allows for the potential of more well rounded and defined characters and situations that can be developed in-game. What you're saying here is a good example. I hope our characters can question the reasoning of leadership and possibly choose to help or destroy/re-unite factions. I disagree with the presumption that the lack weapons on the Tempest is a pacifist stance as Jien's character appears to me to be more pragmatic. Sloane's history, conversation and behavior conveys possible instability under certain circumstance (near spotless? trail of bodies?) and self-righteousness (problems with superiors). Traits that if she is charismatic and positioned well in a hierarchy could appear as confidence and attract like-minded followers and persuade people under her command. A coup attempt is reasonable if a stressful situation arises that a personality like Sloane's rationalizes she is better equipped to handle. Jien seems to be a type A visionary genius who gets things done and appears to be a person that plans thoroughly and for contingencies to the best of their abilities with who and what they have to work with. Jien would see a coup coming from Sloane a mile away. Or such is my hope and take at the moment. Could is also be that the AI departed earlier than it had originally planned and, therefore, did not have the expedition completely outfitted (It does appear that the Nexus is not 100% complete when we depart and that we have to finish it in Andromeda). Is is possible that weapons for the scout ships were not yet shipped for installation and therefore just didn't get installed prior to departure (perhaps buildup for use the impending war in the Milky Way made heavy armaments for ships tougher to obtain)? That Jien, desperate to convince the volunteers that they were really ready to leave, lied to them before they were put into cryo and they only discovered how unprepared they were after waking up in Andromeda? That this caused a schism in the expedition? Didn't one of the Star Trek movies start with an Enterprise that left the docks on a maiden voyage when some (if not all) of the weapons weren't yet installed?
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Post by nem7 on Jan 18, 2017 13:05:21 GMT
Prince E
We are not scientists! We are soldiers! Armed to the teeth! Shooting - is 50% of Andromeda gameplay! And they give us unarmed vehicles, because we are "explorers". Common sense is out there!
Splinter Cell is considered to be a pure spy, but Sam Fisher at least have a silent pistol if something goes wrong! And this is space-opera where any aggressive alien monster can appear! And we have to fight with him by foot because we are explorers! What the hell!
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Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2017 13:26:25 GMT
Prince EWe are not scientists! We are soldiers! Armed to the teeth! Shooting - is 50% of Andromeda gameplay! And they give us unarmed vehicles, because we are "explorers". Common sense is out there! Splinter Cell is considered to be a pure spy, but Sam Fisher at least have a silent pistol if something goes wrong! And this is space-opera where any aggressive alien monster can appear! And we have to fight with him by foot because we are explorers! What the hell! Is this sort of personal attack really necessary?
[ SofaJockey MOD-EDIT: no it wasn't, though fairly mild in the scheme of things... Redacted anyway. SJ] [x] Stay classy, BSN...
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Post by nem7 on Jan 18, 2017 13:34:47 GMT
UpUpAwayReduxThat was not an attack. It was exploration stuff... We are peaceful mission, don't forget!
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Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2017 13:58:11 GMT
UpUpAwayReduxThat was not an attack. It was exploration stuff... We are peaceful mission, don't forget! #cantfoolme
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