outlaworacle
N2
If it's alive, don't lick it
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda
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outlaworacle
If it's alive, don't lick it
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outlaworacle
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outlaworacle
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Post by outlaworacle on Aug 9, 2016 16:45:38 GMT
I'm getting ready to start a new playthrough of the original trilogy with the aim of it being my "official canon" for Mass Effect: Andromeda. Knowing what we know about Andromeda (no import, new galaxy, etc.) I'm inclined to be more open minded regarding which ending to choose, but I'm still undecided.
I've almost always picked the Destroy Ending with High EMS. Because I wanted Shepard to be alive and have a somewhat happy ending (although Destroy has some awful drawbacks) and we did set out to destroy the Reapers.
I picked Synthesis once and it was... interesting, but I've always avoided it after. Never picked Control.
But since we're moving on to a new galaxy, I feel like I'm less obliged to leave the Milky Way in a recognizable state. In fact, having it be totally borked might even enhance my headcanon for Andromeda since it will seem a much better idea to have to sought refuge to start again elsewhere.
My questions are as follows:
Control
Are we given any idea of what happens? I know Shepard becomes the Reaper overlord, either by uploading and enhancing his consciousness or a new AI being based on his mind, but what then? Do the cycles continue but... more nicely? I don't believe that this results in Indoctrination, so taking that on faith, do we have any indication of what Shepard controlling the Reapers really does? Do the Reapers all stay around as interstellar badasses and help everybody out? Do they go away again only to return if needed?
Synthesis
What the actual ****. I mean, what does this even mean. Does it mean organics will now build offspring instead of breeding? Can machines reproduce sexually? Both? Do organics now have less emotion or "humanity" or do machines have more? If even the plants are robots, does anyone need to poop anymore? How does synthetic/organic hybridization prevent these hybrid beings from creating pure AI down the line that would pose the same threat? Would any new AI be somehow organic when it came into being because of space magic?
Refusal
I almost kind of lean towards this one. Like a lot of players, my instinct during the Catalyst confrontation was to not trust anything it says and tell it to go to hell. I basically metagame my way out of it and have Shepard pick something because I know the Crucible does what you choose. Is there still an epilogue? Is the idea that even though this cycle, and perhaps the next several, fail to destroy the Reapers, eventually they do? If so, I might like this idea best as it means Ryder and co. are starting over in another galaxy while the Milky Way remains ravaged by war for eons.
All thoughtful commentary is appreciated!
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DoomsdayDevice
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Post by DoomsdayDevice on Aug 9, 2016 20:58:50 GMT
Synthesis
What the actual ****. I mean, what does this even mean. Does it mean organics will now build offspring instead of breeding? Can machines reproduce sexually? Both? Do organics now have less emotion or "humanity" or do machines have more? If even the plants are robots, does anyone need to poop anymore? How does synthetic/organic hybridization prevent these hybrid beings from creating pure AI down the line that would pose the same threat? Would any new AI be somehow organic when it came into being because of space magic? What synthesis means? In the words of the Reaper AI: "Organics will be perfected by integrating fully with synthetic technology." So, "Embrace perfection." That's what it means. From what the Reaper AI tells us, there's no hybridization. Nothing about synthetics changes. Only organics are "perfected". The way I see it, organics will be 'reaperized'. Pretty much like the Protheans became the Collectors. In Mordin's words: "No glands, replaced by tech. No digestive system, replaced by tech. No soul, replaced by tech. Whatever they were, gone forever."
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outlaworacle
N2
If it's alive, don't lick it
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: outlaworacle
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outlaworacle
If it's alive, don't lick it
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Post by outlaworacle on Aug 9, 2016 21:06:26 GMT
Synthesis
What the actual ****. I mean, what does this even mean. Does it mean organics will now build offspring instead of breeding? Can machines reproduce sexually? Both? Do organics now have less emotion or "humanity" or do machines have more? If even the plants are robots, does anyone need to poop anymore? How does synthetic/organic hybridization prevent these hybrid beings from creating pure AI down the line that would pose the same threat? Would any new AI be somehow organic when it came into being because of space magic? What synthesis means? In the words of the Reaper AI: "Organics will be perfected by integrating fully with synthetic technology." So, "Embrace perfection." That's what it means. From what the Reaper AI tells us, there's no hybridization. Nothing about synthetics changes. Only organics are "perfected". The way I see it, organics will be 'reaperized'. Pretty much like the Protheans became the Collectors. In Mordin's words: "No glands, replaced by tech. No digestive system, replaced by tech. No soul, replaced by tech. Whatever they were, gone forever." So they don't poop, is that what you're trying to tell me? This calls for rethinking everything... I seem to remember that synthetics were changed by it too. Weren't they all green and glowy as well? I took that to mean both had been changed so that organics were now partially synthetic and synthetics were now partially organic, thus removing their differences. Or something.
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DoomsdayDevice
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Post by DoomsdayDevice on Aug 9, 2016 21:16:22 GMT
So they don't poop, is that what you're trying to tell me? This calls for rethinking everything... I seem to remember that synthetics were changed by it too. Weren't they all green and glowy as well? I took that to mean both had been changed so that organics were now partially synthetic and synthetics were now partially organic, thus removing their differences. Or something. Yeah, that is what people somehow assume, that both are changed and become partially the other. However, the Reaper AI actually says nothing to support this. If you listen to what he actually says, he says organics will be changed, so synthetics will understand them better and vice versa. Forget the green lights, that's just symbolism. So again, what he says is that organics will be changed, nothing else. "Organics will be perfected by integrating fully with synthetic technology. I don't see how that's different from Collectors, Banshees, Cannibals, Marauders, Husks, or hell, even the Human Reaper. EDIT: Actually yeah, Reapers are in fact organics that have integrated fully with synthetic technology. Think about that.
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outlaworacle
N2
If it's alive, don't lick it
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda
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outlaworacle
If it's alive, don't lick it
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Post by outlaworacle on Aug 9, 2016 21:21:09 GMT
Yeah, that is kind of funky. I think I can rule out Synthesis, then.
What are your thoughts on Refusal? I think it would be a good support headcanon for Andromeda, because it would make the Andromeda mission important since the Reaper war raged on for countless millenia in the Milky Way. Does the Refusal ending make it clear if the Reapers are ever defeated? I seem to remember there still being a stargazer epilogue, implying that even though this cycle, and probably several others, failed... eventually the Reapers were overcome.
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DoomsdayDevice
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Post by DoomsdayDevice on Aug 9, 2016 21:40:09 GMT
Yeah, that is kind of funky. I think I can rule out Synthesis, then. What are your thoughts on Refusal? I think it would be a good support headcanon for Andromeda, because it would make the Andromeda mission important since the Reaper war raged on for countless millenia in the Milky Way. Does the Refusal ending make it clear if the Reapers are ever defeated? I seem to remember there still being a stargazer epilogue, implying that even though this cycle, and probably several others, failed... eventually the Reapers were overcome. I think Refusal is an unfitting ending for any Shepard. Shepard has always been the one to make the hard calls. Time and time again. And then when (s)he has a chance to end it all forever, (s)he doesn't. This Shepard sacrifices an entire cycle (and who knows how many more to come) simply because (s)he does not want to sacrifice EDI and the Geth (both of whom have said that they would gladly risk non-functionality if it meant stopping the Reapers). A refusal Shepard, to me, is like a Shepard who's lost his/her resolve. I think Anderson explains it best: "A good leader is someone who values the life of his men over the success of the mission, but understands that sometimes, the cost of failing a mission is higher than the cost of losing those men." I simply cannot sympathize with a refusing Shepard. I do understand your question is more about what state you want to leave the galaxy in for Andromeda though. It's hard to say, but I guess it doesn't really matter as we won't know what happened. It matters in your head, I guess.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Aug 10, 2016 1:31:50 GMT
Yeah, that is what people somehow assume, that both are changed and become partially the other. However, the Reaper AI actually says nothing to support this. If you listen to what he actually says, he says organics will be changed, so synthetics will understand them better and vice versa. Forget the green lights, that's just symbolism. To be fair, the original ending for Mass Effect 3 can be seen to imply that. When the Extended Cut came out, it was clarified with the whole "organics gain perfection through technology, synthetics through understanding" thing.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2016 23:33:04 GMT
I guess I cheated. Installed the MEHEM mod and that became my canon ending.
Only played one SP all the way through without MEHEM ... my very first run, which I completed within days of game release ... selected Red.
Played MP only for a long time after that ... did a second run of my first play to get the Level X weapon achievement, but did that with MEHEM.
Over time, imported my ME2 characters to complete SP runs in ME3 ... but all with MEHEM.
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Post by SalMasRac on Aug 11, 2016 23:46:33 GMT
Yeah, that is what people somehow assume, that both are changed and become partially the other. However, the Reaper AI actually says nothing to support this. If you listen to what he actually says, he says organics will be changed, so synthetics will understand them better and vice versa. Forget the green lights, that's just symbolism. To be fair, the original ending for Mass Effect 3 can be seen to imply that. When the Extended Cut came out, it was clarified with the whole "organics gain perfection through technology, synthetics through understanding" thing. That's just what Harbinger wants you to think so you will choose that and hand him victory Synthesis = Hyper Huskify Laser that grants every organic thing in the galaxy "Salvation through annihilation" Control is also suspect because it's not Shepard as a Reaper, it is a new Reaper that has Shepards memories, but misplace a decimal point in the transition or he catches a Geth Heritic virus or something or the other Reapers rewrite him/her and it's Reaper Cycle Central all over again. In both endings, Shep is dead, and has no knowledge of the actual outcome of those choices. Shep only knows what Starbinger is telling him/her, and there is zero reason to believe anything it says.
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DoomsdayDevice
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Post by DoomsdayDevice on Aug 12, 2016 1:01:37 GMT
Heh, that's weird. With my forum theme I can only see a big white empty space. I guess you selected a white font. I can only read that when I select the text, haha.
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Post by Trilobite Derby on Aug 12, 2016 6:17:13 GMT
Pick a Shepard and then go!
I mean, it's not going to come up, but I do try to match my ending choice to the Shepard in question's personality, past, and all that good stuff.
My idealistic, slightly naïve Shepard who'd seen all of her loved ones die to conflict did her best to end conflict with Synthesis. Too much tragedy in her life, and she was willing to take a leap of faith and die to prevent that happening to as many as possible.
My grouchy, human-centric Shepard went renegade control because hey, he's the only one who he knew could be trusted. (Not ideal for anyone else.)
My uncompromising, cold and angry Shepard who basically went straight through the bare minimum, eyes always on the prize, went for Refuse in the end. Wasn't willing to work with the Catalyst at all.
My snarky renegon who pretty much always played it safe with dangerous aliens destroyed the @#&@(@ out of the Reapers.
Annnnnnd my canon, who was always riding for a fall and who was never going to make it out of Mass Effect alive, went with paragon control. There were a few reasons. First, she was a sole survivor, and pulling off what TIM couldn't was the final flip of the bird. (That was not actually a primary factor. It's a joke.) She had good relations with EDI and the geth, and was a preserver of knowledge whenever possible. She was also very nervous about what could happen with Leviathans and krogan out there. She was a paragade, tending towards fast action and idealism, so I eventually decided to have her go with control. ...And, on a purely visual note, I absolutely love the visuals of Shepard struggling to hold on to the thing that's ripping her apart.
So yeah. Just go with what works for your favorite Shepard. I'd lay good money on us not going back to the Milky Way any time soon.
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corkyspetals
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Post by corkyspetals on Aug 24, 2016 17:21:48 GMT
I never could get behind the refuse option. Shepard is put in the position to choose the fate of everyone, like it or not. Refuse seems like it's a "you can't make me" option and it isn't about Shepard's need to stay true to him/herself anymore. Fate of the galaxy. In real life we have to choose the lesser evil once in a while. A protest vote makes you feel good but it lets other people make the choice.
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Post by straykat on Aug 24, 2016 17:30:08 GMT
I'd only pick Control if there was a direct sequel. It has story potential. But only you can decide. Why not stick with Destroy? Do what makes you happy. It doesn't really matter.
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Monk
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Post by Monk on Aug 24, 2016 20:52:14 GMT
I'm getting ready to start a new playthrough of the original trilogy with the aim of it being my "official canon" for Mass Effect: Andromeda. Knowing what we know about Andromeda (no import, new galaxy, etc.) I'm inclined to be more open minded regarding which ending to choose, but I'm still undecided. I've almost always picked the Destroy Ending with High EMS. Because I wanted Shepard to be alive and have a somewhat happy ending (although Destroy has some awful drawbacks) and we did set out to destroy the Reapers. I picked Synthesis once and it was... interesting, but I've always avoided it after. Never picked Control. But since we're moving on to a new galaxy, I feel like I'm less obliged to leave the Milky Way in a recognizable state. In fact, having it be totally borked might even enhance my headcanon for Andromeda since it will seem a much better idea to have to sought refuge to start again elsewhere. My questions are as follows: ControlAre we given any idea of what happens? I know Shepard becomes the Reaper overlord, either by uploading and enhancing his consciousness or a new AI being based on his mind, but what then? Do the cycles continue but... more nicely? I don't believe that this results in Indoctrination, so taking that on faith, do we have any indication of what Shepard controlling the Reapers really does? Do the Reapers all stay around as interstellar badasses and help everybody out? Do they go away again only to return if needed? Synthesis
What the actual ****. I mean, what does this even mean. Does it mean organics will now build offspring instead of breeding? Can machines reproduce sexually? Both? Do organics now have less emotion or "humanity" or do machines have more? If even the plants are robots, does anyone need to poop anymore? How does synthetic/organic hybridization prevent these hybrid beings from creating pure AI down the line that would pose the same threat? Would any new AI be somehow organic when it came into being because of space magic? Refusal
I almost kind of lean towards this one. Like a lot of players, my instinct during the Catalyst confrontation was to not trust anything it says and tell it to go to hell. I basically metagame my way out of it and have Shepard pick something because I know the Crucible does what you choose. Is there still an epilogue? Is the idea that even though this cycle, and perhaps the next several, fail to destroy the Reapers, eventually they do? If so, I might like this idea best as it means Ryder and co. are starting over in another galaxy while the Milky Way remains ravaged by war for eons.
All thoughtful commentary is appreciated!
- Control: i've always gotten the sense that what constitutes the Catalyst on the Citadel gets overwritten by the entirety of Shepard's memories and characteristics. Since the "brain" for the Catalyst is infinitely superior to a human brain, it continues control over the Reapers, as it sees fit. The mission it holds is somewhat dependent on the Paragon/Renegade rating but ultimately it becomes the standing-army for the entire galaxy, watching over the galaxy as the remaining peoples govern themselves.
- Synthesis: what Mordin was saying but instead of husks, think of Shepard themselves, who was a cyborg. Essentially, in the future under this ending, all organic life becomes cyborgs and machines get upgraded in such a way they become true humanoids (for example, Data vs his brother, Lore, though uh, more stable).
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Post by straykat on Aug 24, 2016 20:56:50 GMT
I don't think Shep was the typical definition of cyborg. Lazarus revitalized, rather than replaced a lot of things. While synthetic bits were like sinew, skin, sight. I guess that's still cyborg, but...
Also, it's super invasive. Synthesis is truly space magicky in comparison. Seems to just happen through "energy" alone.
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Post by Monk on Aug 24, 2016 21:34:15 GMT
Yehhhh, that's the part i try to ignore in my canon. The Husks, Reapers, … changing over, i can see. The insta-cyborgization, not so much. There's not much of an explanation of it and, literally, doesn't make much sense. I mean, you can make a human completely-synthetic but then you get a Husk or General Grievous. And even if this _was_ the case, making a Husk is a process that was anything but instant. In the Synthesis slideshows, i see it as a future-progression, not something that happens right away.
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Post by Heimdall on Aug 24, 2016 22:40:04 GMT
I've been doing the same thing, doing a final trilogy run to serve as a canon, and I've been mulling over the same question.
I don't think I can do synthesis, it makes too little sense. The green beam is just straight up magic. "Adding Shepard's energy" my ass...
I've never really liked control either, it feels hypocritical considering how much of the game I spent telling the Illusive Man it was a bad idea.
Refusal... I don't even humor the idea.
So I guess that just leaves Destroy...
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Post by Iakus on Aug 26, 2016 16:27:58 GMT
I guess I cheated. Installed the MEHEM mod and that became my canon ending. Only played one SP all the way through without MEHEM ... my very first run, which I completed within days of game release ... selected Red. Played MP only for a long time after that ... did a second run of my first play to get the Level X weapon achievement, but did that with MEHEM. Over time, imported my ME2 characters to complete SP runs in ME3 ... but all with MEHEM. If you cheated so did I. For me it's MEHEM or nothing.
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Post by The Hype Himself on Aug 27, 2016 4:31:11 GMT
I guess I cheated. Installed the MEHEM mod and that became my canon ending. Only played one SP all the way through without MEHEM ... my very first run, which I completed within days of game release ... selected Red. Played MP only for a long time after that ... did a second run of my first play to get the Level X weapon achievement, but did that with MEHEM. Over time, imported my ME2 characters to complete SP runs in ME3 ... but all with MEHEM. If you cheated so did I. For me it's MEHEM or nothing. Definitely nothing for you, since your ending isn't real.
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Post by Iakus on Aug 27, 2016 15:20:06 GMT
If you cheated so did I. For me it's MEHEM or nothing. Definitely nothing for you, since your ending isn't real. SO BE IT!!!!
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Post by Tonymac on Aug 27, 2016 17:28:09 GMT
Before MEHEM I chose Destroy. Then I did a MEHEM run, and put SP on the back shelf.
MP though, is so good that I still play a lot.
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outlaworacle
N2
If it's alive, don't lick it
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Post by outlaworacle on Sept 29, 2016 22:34:54 GMT
Well, I finally finished this DEFINITELY MY LAST RUN NO MATTER WHAT FOR A WHILE AT LEAST™ playthrough and on the brazen assumption that anyone might be curious, I chose Control. Which is a first for me.
Throughout, I kept thinking I would end up back at Destroy just like I always do. Especially when it's noted by Vendetta on Thessia that what prevented the Protheans from activating the Crucible was a divide between those who believed it should be used to destroy the reapers and those who believed it should be used to control them and that the control camp was eventually revealed to be indoctrinated. And then of course, in the current cycle we have the Illusive Man who is confirmed as Indoctrinated both by Maya Brooks and of course his final scenes on the Citadel. Now, I don't buy into the theory that choosing Control leaves you Indoctrinated; if Bioware intended that, I think it would be crystal clear and it's also contradicted by the Catalyst itself who says that the The Illusive Man could never choose Control because they already controlled him. Although now that I'm typing it, maybe that means it does Indoctrinate you and the reason TIM couldn't use it was because he was already Indoctrinated... oh well, fuck it.
Dismissing Synthesis entirely (because honestly, while it sort of solves the problem of synthetics vs organics, it's murky on how, exactly... and those synthetics might just go on to build ubersynethetics which eventually rise up and destroy them, not to mention while everyone is now a biotech hybrid, it certainly doesn't prevent all conflict as there's still plenty of differences for people to go to war over), Control seemed like the option for my Shepard because Destroy doesn't really solve the problem it just resets the clock.
Destroy leaves the galaxy stranded without Mass Relays for a while, and with the Geth gone it creates a void where it's almost certain someone is going to start trying to build new AI soon. Even if not soon, they will eventually, it's inevitable. Assuming they live long enough with an unchecked Krogan population blanketing the galaxy.
So Control seemed like the only option. Take the power, assume the mantle of God, and use the Reapers to enforce peace. Keep the Krogan at bay either by quarantine or intimidation, destroy any other AI systems that get out of hand, encourage peace and prosperity by bringing forth the knowledge of all past cycles, perhaps even achieving something not unlike Synthesis. Otherwise, while you're solving the problem you set out to solve, you're leaving the galaxy in a dangerously fragile state. Sure, that's life, but... my Shepard couldn't resist. After all, he'd been solving problems and protecting everyone for the last 3 years and the whole galaxy would be dead if not for him... if that doesn't qualify him, what does?
Although I fully expect that after a few million years my Shepard will grow tired of fixing and solving everyone's problems at last and probably lose it and go murderous and then have to be put down... assuming the galaxy has what it takes.
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Post by gothpunkboy89 on Sept 29, 2016 22:47:54 GMT
Control and/or synthesis are really the only endings that could lead to ME:A happening. Because those endings would allow the citizens of the galaxy to harness the Reaper tech and build something capable of crossing the incredibly vast distances between galaxies.
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Post by CrutchCricket on Sept 29, 2016 23:00:20 GMT
It doesn't matter. That's the point. If it mattered, the whole purpose of going to Andromeda would be defeated. Also it literally doesn't matter since the colonists are implied to leave before the RGB happens. So you can pick whatever. If you're curious about control (and because people are still going "it's not shepard" or "it'll start reaping lololol") check out this thread.
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Post by Robo on Sept 29, 2016 23:43:03 GMT
Synthesis is actually the canon ending just so you all know.
If you don't like it, you can just get out.
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