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Post by Rouccoco on Feb 26, 2017 4:11:47 GMT
I haven't seen that before. Wish I still hadn't. There is...something distinctly uncomfortable about that. But I don't always read situations right (Love the Gif though I can't seem to get them to work). You're reading it right. I think the first scene is the worst. Vega looks like he's doing his best Ellen Ripley impression. (Note on the gifs - you need to use the image icon from the post toolbar, and the addresses of the images you post need to end in .gif or .jpg and so on)
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Post by Deleted on Feb 26, 2017 4:12:06 GMT
The more I read about Jaal the more he seems like an apology letter for Thane/Jacob to FemSheps lol. Spiritual/religious/sensitive and family-oriented (no cheating this time!) but also into sexy time + Twilek/Thane/Garrus design mix. Yeah I'm not gonna be shocked if he's just straight :/ BioWare already did an apology to those female players who romanced Thane/Jacob with DA:I (4 LIs). Of particular note, Sheryl Chee promised (in 2010 BSN group "Girls Against Crath Syndrome"), that if she ever wrote an older, unattached, male LI for the ladies, she would avoid Carth Syndrome, and she did (with Blackwall). His mixture of Thane/Garrus/Javik is more because BioWare knows a great many of their straight female fanbase wants non-human male LIs, and some of us really wanted Javik! I hope he isn't like Thane. I can't go through that again...no more angst and misery.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by dmc1001 on Feb 26, 2017 4:32:21 GMT
I think that's where the glitch part comes in. I avoided the left options, and I still somehow activated Ashley's romance. If it was just Liara, it wouldn't be that bad. But not both. I'm not worried about no gay content. I'm disappointed that it seems that gay ME players are less important once again. (also, I live in a country, where even civil unions have no chance of being passed, so I don't get that "times are changing" feeling that often) Oh, I see. I've heard it's possible to romance both of them in ME1, have Shepard mention something about a threeway, and then end up having to pick one. It seems you were somehow heading down that path. I did romance Liara in my first time through, stayed loyal in ME2, and then started making moves on Kaidan in ME3. Liara was hurt but I didn't care that much. Funny thing about the choices. I know Steve is an option in ME3 but I've never been able to not choose Kaidan. Whether I modded ME1 or just waited until ME3, I liked the progression of things between them. In some ways, I found it more amazing to wait because it was like it all finally came together for them. Still, I'm not convinced there aren't at least two options in MEA. We'll have to wait and see.
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Post by BansheeOwnage on Feb 26, 2017 4:33:38 GMT
You're still in the dark on who is or can be an asexual romance. Yeah, and unlike M/M content Arryn Flynn genuinely could not recall if there was any or not, which is not a good sign. As far as I've seen he seems to phrase his answers like that a lot, and about important game aspects you couldn't possibly be unsure about, nothing obscure. I hope he just likes phrasing things indirectly for whatever reason. That would be less scary than him actually not knowing these things and having to check. An asexual romance would not likely involve sex at all, rather leading to cuddling or otherwise just talking. You can have a romance arc without the sex, and you can make the romance lines more about getting comfortable with holding each other or just being intimate in general. Also, having a character like that, who's got little-no-sex drive that's human, would be a nice change of pace for some players. Merrill's romance from DA2 would have fit that perfectly except for it was confirmed that she was indeed bisexual by David Gaider. Otherwise, kinda think along those lines. Heavy on the romance, very light with any aspect of overt sexual desire.I'm not even asexual, but that kind of (video game) romance would be ideal for me. I'd much rather get an extra moment with lovely dialogue etc. than a sex scene, resource-wise. I personally won't be satisfied until all my guns can shoot rainbows. We need the Wuv Woo skull! For those who don't know, it's a modifier in the Halo Wars games which makes beam weapons rainbows with hearts coming off of them (including the beam of the single most menacing unit in the game), and it's glorious. Spoilered for size: I would love that, however this could be a double-edged sword, I don't know about lesbian/bi women opinions out there, but they have had asari LIs in every game and I find that very tiresome, it limits the options too much for my taste, for example, maybe if Peebee wasn't a LI, they could have got a female human in the squad (which is a thing they have been asking since forever) but with an asari in every game it limits their options for the so-called balance sake. I think the devs have to put to rest a little bit the asari for a few games, just my two cents. Agreed, I find it tiresome too. Does one of the lesbian options always have to be an asari, just because they're easy to put into the group as the bi female? I'd prefer more diversity among my diversity, please. I'd be ecstatic about a human option in the squad, and I'd also like to have some other alien squadmates we haven't explored as much as asari regardless of romance. Also: They said that they are attempting to make romances a more natural part of the story and less formulaic, and - let's face it - even their non straight relationship options have become quite cookie cutter... I honestly can't say. Still, I doubt it's some kind of discrimination or persecution at play there. Putting aside the issue of m/m romances for a moment--because thinking about it too much more will probably make me an annoying mix of anxious, depressed, and a tiny bit weirdly excited due to my current state of sleep deprivation--the bolded part is one of the things I'm looking forward to in this game.
I hope it all comes out the way the devs have implied.
To be honest, vague promises like "The romances will be more natural and less formulaic" just go in one of my ears and out the other at this point. And I'm not just talking about Bioware; it's pretty much the same for all developers for me, now. I mean, that would be cool, but it's far too vague as well as blatant marketing for me to expect it to be true. Even some more specific statements, like "More dialogue than the entire [blank]!", I can't believe 100%, since I've had that exact kind of statement turn out to be flat-out wrong in pre-release statements before (Halo 5). Unfortunately, generally "I'll believe it when I see it." This response I am making isn't directed at the image but it is the thing that most worries me. The whole 'it has to make sense for the character' and about it having to be part of who they are rubs me totally the wrong way. My orientation is not part of 'who' I am it is part of what I am. The whole comment makes me worry there is some "this character doesn't act gay enough to be bi" or "this character is too masculine to be bi" thing going on. I really despise that kind of stereotyping. I also despise when such stereotyping is used to determine even how same sex partners are intimate in private. Thank you for saying this, so I didn't have to. Their "It has to fit the character, feel right!" idea really irks me. There is no scenario where it doesn't play off of stereotypes one way or the other, because there are no other factors for why people think someone "feels" like a certain orientation. Why? Because it's an inborn trait (obviously, to most of us here). If I were in charge, I'd chose which character was what sexuality based simply on variety. I'd try to make sure that all groups get different types of characters over the games instead of one group, say, always getting the Knights in Shining Armour while no one else does, or make sure the plot-important romances aren't distributed too unevenly, or make sure everyone gets a squadmate as an option. That kind of thing. Because when to comes to which sexuality they should be, you might as well flip a coin. At least my way would make people happy... Well, happi er, maybe People don't pick the human romance over alien because they're a human too and they're appealed by or can relate to that. Otherwise Jacob would be more popular for Femsheps than Garrus. Or Cortez/Kaiden would be loved instead of complaints of "Man I wanted Garrus instead, not this" that happen even today, Or even Ashley and Liara. Uh... Did you ever think that maybe Garrus is more popular than Jacob, not because he's an alien, but because he's way cooler than Jacob and doesn't dump you and get someone else pregnant? It has a lot more to do with character. Same for any men who would have liked to romance Garrus over [blank]. There's also the fact she doesn't really get any banter from companions in the field commenting on her romance with the Inquisitor anyways. There's more banter about Blackwall having a crush on Josephine than Josephine's relationship with the Inquisitor. Non-squad romances being acknowledged by other characters is certainly something Bioware needs to improve. Cullen got so little recognition that it sometimes seemed like his romance was just happening inside my Inquisitor's head... Sort of like my avatar That is a great point, and I truly felt like the strongest relationship my Shep had with anyone in the whole game was the one he had with Joker. Joker was always there for him, through thick and thin. And you're right in that you could still interact with Joker via comm; imagine if he'd been a LI and you could have some LI-related banter with him, so I could see how it would work in MEA. "You're the only one who's been there since the beginning, Jeff. The only one who's seen it all with me." It would be great if they made liberal use of the radio to make the crewmembers of the Tempest more involved while exploring and during missions. If done right, it would at least alleviate some of the disadvantages of being non-squaddies. But I doubt it.I'd rather they just be blunt honestly and let people work out their disappointment before launch, rather than it polluting their experience with the game. But dont you prefer experiencing crushing disappointment in real time instead of being able to brace for it?! Pshh, most people like romances in Bioware games to simulate being rejected in real life. If we know the options before we play, it's ruined! Sarcasm, just in case it wasn't clear. Can never be too careful.
Nothing's confirmed one way or another. Hopefully the lessons learnt from ME3 they focused on concerned: - shitty autodialogued "emotional" Shepard with barebone 2 dialogue options in almost every conversations *snip* I know it's not the thread, but at least one of the reviews did say they only had 2 dialogue options most conversations It also appears that autodialogue is prevalent, but we don't know how prevalent other than more than DA:I in which it was almost nonexistent. I don't think we know why PeeBee jumps on us. Considering the old footage shows Drack pointing his shotgun at her, I don't think saving us is the reason. Or at least at that moment we don't know it is the reason. Hmm, sounds like this might be the beginning of a good friendship with Drack, then I don't remember having to reject both of them. Just Liara. Still, I'm hoping things are a little more nuanced in MEA so that we can avoid accidental romances. So, 10 years ago BioWare wasn't prepared to have male/male romances. 10 years ago same sex marriage wasn't legal in all 50 states. Things have changed. They've changed along with society. I'm not concerned that gay dudes will lack romantic partners. To be fair, Bioware operates in Canada. Same-sex marriage has been legal here for 12 years, so before ME1 was released. Not to start on this ancient argument, but there are indeed multiple instances in one and two that suggest that they did assume Maleshep was straight. There's the whole thing with the Consort (?) in ME1, where if you ask her for an extra reward GayShep gets a LOT more than he bargained for. There's that 'what's not to like?' line early on that Shepard says about beautiful women etc etc. There's the mess of trying to be Jack's friend in 2. I can't remember all examples because it's been a while and I don't think it's an issue now in Bioware games so I don't care, but the games most certainly DID make assumptions until 3. Female Shepard says that line that way, too. Make of that what you will. First time playing FemShep. I haven't spoken to Kaidan at all on the Normandy and have never taken him on a single mission. Liara still thought I was interested in him. Just as a scientifically minded member of a single sex species would about a member of a sexually dimorphic one... It's not very scientific to do such lousy research that she assumes that any human would be attracted to any human of the opposite sex. In other words, it's not just about orientation, but she'd also have to be ignoring preferences and standards. I am glad that at least Bioware is moving away from ninjamance. I think in DAI, it was clear which option was considered romance/flirting. I don't want to be too careful when picking dialogues, fearing that they might lead to romance I don't want. The heart icons are certainly useful in that regard, but more than a little unimmersive. "Click heart icon until you get romance". If they had 2 or 3 options for flirts each time, that would be much better, though, so you wouldn't end up always having the same dialogue as other players (or yourself on another run) if you wanted to romance someone and would be much better for RP. I've written more on it before, but basically you would often have different tones of flirting: Direct, awkward, etc. Now that I've caught up on the thread and given myself a headache, here is something general: I really wish they'd just reveal the options, or at least the number of options for everyone, including how many squadmates are available. I can't help wondering if their silence is indicative of something bad rather than just wanting to keep it secret "so we can find out ourselves!". I know it sounds cynical, but it would certainly make sense to keep it secret if they know it'll cause anger, and more people will already have bought the game if they don't tell us these things first. Unless it's absolutely horrible, it might be better to reveal it early so people have a chance to digest it rather than hype themselves infinitely. Here's the thing about this: A lot of people want to know the available romances, and if they told us in a way that only people who wanted to know could see (linking to a page, etc.), then everyone would win. People could see or not see to their liking. But if they don't reveal them, only people who don't want to know gain anything. Which brings me to how laughable the idea that "We want you do discover it on your own!" really is, since they revealed Cora. In other words, "We want you to discover it on your own, except when we don't feel like it!" Bioware, just... stick to your guns one way or the other. Either don't reveal anyone, or reveal everyone. You can't have it both ways. It'll be interesting to see who is being romanced in the next trailer, if anyone. No matter who it is, it would still be hypocritical and arbitrary. Okay. Spent, didn't-come-out-as-well-as-I'd-hoped, semi-rant over.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by dmc1001 on Feb 26, 2017 4:47:05 GMT
At this point, I'm just going to do my best to romance Reyes and Liam and hope for the best. Maybe it'll stick with one of them.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 26, 2017 4:48:57 GMT
At this point, I'm just going to do my best to romance Reyes and Liam and hope for the best. Maybe it'll stick with one of them. Sounds like as good a plan as any, and good luck! I'm going to wait and see what data is mined from the trial version I suppose.
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Post by Davrin's boobs on Feb 26, 2017 4:57:29 GMT
This response I am making isn't directed at the image but it is the thing that most worries me. The whole 'it has to make sense for the character' and about it having to be part of who they are rubs me totally the wrong way. My orientation is not part of 'who' I am it is part of what I am. The whole comment makes me worry there is some "this character doesn't act gay enough to be bi" or "this character is too masculine to be bi" thing going on. I really despise that kind of stereotyping. I also despise when such stereotyping is used to determine even how same sex partners are intimate in private. Thank you for saying this, so I didn't have to. Their "It has to fit the character, feel right!" idea really irks me. There is no scenario where it doesn't play off of stereotypes one way or the other, because there are no other factors for why people think someone "feels" like a certain orientation. Why? Because it's an inborn trait (obviously, to most of us here). If I were in charge, I'd chose which character was what sexuality based simply on variety. I'd try to make sure that all groups get different types of characters over the games instead of one group, say, always getting the Knights in Shining Armour while no one else does, or make sure the plot-important romances aren't distributed too unevenly, or make sure everyone gets a squadmate as an option. That kind of thing. Because when to comes to which sexuality they should be, you might as well flip a coin. At least my way would make people happy... Well, happi er, maybe I don't know why this it's so hard to accomplish for the devs, it's frustrating...
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Post by vertigomez on Feb 26, 2017 4:59:43 GMT
"We want everyone to discover the romances naturally" <-- I don't understand this. Even taking romance out of the equation (and all the folks who want to brace themselves for disappointment or get hyped before the game comes out), I don't understand the insistence that learning anything significant about the game before it releases automatically cheapens the experience.
Like......... it's not spoiling if you want to know. The people who don't want to know aren't the ones asking on twitter or obsessively F5ing the forums.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 26, 2017 5:00:24 GMT
Adam Fondark@fondragon Will you guys announce romances before launch? I really dont wanna chase someone just to realize at the end that I couldnt
Ian S. Frazier @tibermoon Not planning on it, no. We want players to discover on their own. You won't have to spend 60 hours flirting to find out that >
Ian S. Frazier@tibermoon a given character is or isn't an option for you, though.
hera@lesbianlovelace i get where yall are coming from by doing this but its. not ideal for lgbt players
Erin Kane@aloudernoise As a lesbian and a diehard ME fan I really agree. This is upsetting.
Zee D-V@324_B21 I agree. I think that it's just tough to wait for representation that fully fills the spectrum.
Zee D-V@324_B21 and not know if perhaps we are filling in the blanks ourselves with expectations that might/might
Zee D-V@324_B21 not come to fruition. It can be a frustrating experience with anyone but the LGBTQ comm especially
Zee D-V@324_B21 with our climate such that MEA and other games are a lifeline source for escapism.
Ian S. Frazier @tibermoon Makes sense, yeah.
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Post by thesnarkyshaman on Feb 26, 2017 5:01:31 GMT
I'm not bothered if there are only non-squaddie romances, but if they're claiming that they have the same importance/content as squad members then they need to step up and make that a reality because things like on-mission reactions and banters give a ton of depth to those characters. So I'd hope for inclusion in missions over comms, an extra amount of banters/encounters with other characters on the ships and in hubs to make up for the ones they don't get running around on missions with you, occasionally accompanying you on missions as a pseudo-squaddie like Morrigan/Leliana in DA:I...stuff like that.
Also, if they can NOT inexplicably be oblivious to huge plot events that the rest of the ship are reacting to like Cortez, that would be cool.
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Post by lurkinganon on Feb 26, 2017 5:06:37 GMT
At this point, I'm just going to do my best to romance Reyes and Liam and hope for the best. Maybe it'll stick with one of them. Replace "Reyes and Liam" with Kallo Jath and Jaal and that's ultimately what I'll be doing.
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Post by zaefkol on Feb 26, 2017 5:09:30 GMT
"We want everyone to discover the romances naturally" <-- I don't understand this. Even taking romance out of the equation (and all the folks who want to brace themselves for disappointment or get hyped before the game comes out), I don't understand the insistence that learning anything significant about the game before it releases automatically cheapens the experience. Like......... it's not spoiling if you want to know. The people who don't want to know aren't the ones asking on twitter or obsessively F5ing the forums. It seems an especially odd stance to maintain at this point in the marketing, when you have tons of people literally writing articles about their experiences with the game after having had hours to play it.
It's like, "We want you to discover stuff naturally, so we don't want you to know anything about the game, except for this info-dump of stuff that we are indirectly giving you because we gave a bunch of journalists a bunch of access to the game."
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Post by Sifr on Feb 26, 2017 5:27:29 GMT
Ryder meets their greatest challenge in Andromeda... having to deal with HR.
Nexus: Ryder, please sit down, we need to talk. Ryder: Is something wrong with the mission? Nexus: No, I'm afraid we've had a lot of complaints from the Tempest crew. Ryder: Oh. Nexus: You've been accused with sexually harassing everyone on the ship? Ryder: Seriously? Nexus: Even SAM filed a complaint that you said you "wanted him inside you". Ryder: That was a joke! He is inside me! Nexus: And the other complaints? Ryder: *Sighs* I didn't realise Drack was fixing up his armour when he wanted me to give him "a bone". I thought Peebee was Asari slang for DTF. You try not staring at Cora's ass when she insists on wearing clothes with a butt-window. And as for "Doctor Sexi", don't blame me for saying what everyone was thinking! Nexus: You're saying these reports are true? Ryder: Hey, you sent me out there without knowing who was available to bang? What was I supposed to do?
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Post by wright1978 on Feb 26, 2017 7:20:11 GMT
"We want everyone to discover the romances naturally" <-- I don't understand this. Even taking romance out of the equation (and all the folks who want to brace themselves for disappointment or get hyped before the game comes out), I don't understand the insistence that learning anything significant about the game before it releases automatically cheapens the experience. Like......... it's not spoiling if you want to know. The people who don't want to know aren't the ones asking on twitter or obsessively F5ing the forums. don't agree with that logic. i do think learning major plot spoilers before encountering them affects the experience. Equally once out there they will be spread to far more than those bothering the devs on twitter.
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Post by naytnavare on Feb 26, 2017 7:30:14 GMT
"We want everyone to discover the romances naturally" <-- I don't understand this. Even taking romance out of the equation (and all the folks who want to brace themselves for disappointment or get hyped before the game comes out), I don't understand the insistence that learning anything significant about the game before it releases automatically cheapens the experience. Like......... it's not spoiling if you want to know. The people who don't want to know aren't the ones asking on twitter or obsessively F5ing the forums. don't agree with that logic. i do think learning major plot spoilers before encountering them affects the experience. Equally once out there they will be spread to far more than those bothering the devs on twitter. I disagree with you disagreeing. Was A New Hope ruined for you, knowing Luke was a farmboy? Was Civil War ruined for you, knowing that Cap and Tony would come to blows? Knowing that, say, Cora is bi-sexual, doesn't ruin a game. It doesn't tell you her background, or how she's romanced, or even what type of partner she is. Fun? Flirty? Domineering? Casual? Does she resent your promotion, or does she stick up for you? Perhaps she's a traitor? Or ready to be a martyr? Knowing THAT she is romancable and by WHOM, to me, changes NOTHING about her story, who she is, or what she is like, JUST the opportunities for your encounters with her.
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Post by vertigomez on Feb 26, 2017 7:42:25 GMT
"We want everyone to discover the romances naturally" <-- I don't understand this. Even taking romance out of the equation (and all the folks who want to brace themselves for disappointment or get hyped before the game comes out), I don't understand the insistence that learning anything significant about the game before it releases automatically cheapens the experience. Like......... it's not spoiling if you want to know. The people who don't want to know aren't the ones asking on twitter or obsessively F5ing the forums. don't agree with that logic. i do think learning major plot spoilers before encountering them affects the experience. Equally once out there they will be spread to far more than those bothering the devs on twitter. But it's a subjective thing, is what I'm saying. The devs act like fans knowing things = BAD, SAD, & RUINED FOREVER when for a lot of people that's simply not the case. People who want to remain completely, 100% in the dark about new developments are free to feel that way - but it's their responsibility to avoid spoilers, not demand that everybody else be as in the dark as they are.
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Post by wright1978 on Feb 26, 2017 7:43:30 GMT
don't agree with that logic. i do think learning major plot spoilers before encountering them affects the experience. Equally once out there they will be spread to far more than those bothering the devs on twitter. I disagree with you disagreeing. Was A New Hope ruined for you, knowing Luke was a farmboy? Was Civil War ruined for you, knowing that Cap and Tony would come to blows? Knowing that, say, Cora is bi-sexual, doesn't ruin a game. It doesn't tell you her background, or how she's romanced, or even what type of partner she is. Fun? Flirty? Domineering? Casual? Does she resent your promotion, or does she stick up for you? Perhaps she's a traitor? Or ready to be a martyr? Knowing THAT she is romancable and by WHOM, to me, changes NOTHING about her story, who she is, or what she is like, JUST the opportunities for your encounters with her. Well I was responding to poster suggesting learning significant non romance story details has no effect which I think is completely wrong. Now while I personally would have no issues trading small difference going in innocent vs spoiled in area of romance, I can at the least understand the desire of the devs not to want to make that trade.
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Post by jjdxb on Feb 26, 2017 7:51:46 GMT
I just want to chime in and say I personally don't think they're pulling anything or trying to sideline the LGBT community, deliberately or otherwise.
It's really obvious the smoke and mirrors over romances is because they just don't want to deal with people like the ones on this forum. They got a lot of grief over Cassandra's supposed manliness, women who were pissy over not being able to romance Dorian, or gay guys who couldn't romance Cullen. Fights over romance were probably like 90% of the reason they shut down the old forums. The amount of shit that was thrown because of the Jaal leak is proof of how toxic this forum can be. Shit, by the way, that would (see DA:I) be thrown even if the Devs explicitly stated Jaal's heterosexuality ahead of time
Furthermore, playersexual romances are not the answer. They are an insulting cop-out which only turn the clock back on LGBT representation. Like they're so afraid of offending both us and straight players that they have to pretend most of the spectrum of sexual orientation doesn't really exist in an improbably high number of people in your immediate social circle who just so happen to want to bang you. This is also a reason why I support more non-squad romances. Frankly the squad limit on romances was beginning to feel rather cabin fevery . Like, girl, there are people you can bang who don't live on this ship with you.
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Post by naytnavare on Feb 26, 2017 7:52:49 GMT
Either way, the worst of it all is that this won't end well for them. Whether coming out with everything, now, and dealing with people being upset and getting over it in time for launch (or not picking up the game, as per the tin foil hats) versus them waiting and people being disappointed them, which is worse is up for debate.
What is NOT up for debate is that someone will leak from files, or a guide, and everyone will know, anyhow. At that point, it WILL be out of their hands. They can either be proactive or not, but they have the power to release the info, on their terms, OR THEY CAN WAIT FOR PEOPLE TO DO IT FOR THEM, at which point, the same damage will be done, without the benefit of at least being the ones to reveal it. Fans will be much less upset, as a whole, if Bioware at least owns up on it all, versus someone else leaking it.
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Post by davkar on Feb 26, 2017 7:54:45 GMT
Announcing the romances before release would be bad. Oh sure, "yay I can plan my wedding with the *choice*" but that's it. That's the whole character after that. If they decide to reveal the orientations they might as well just post pictures of squadmates with tags. Gay, lesbian, sexypostergirlforstraights, etc. It would affect the reception of that character. Oh, s/he's not for me, I won't bother with them, moving on.
Without it the focus is on the characters themselves. What's the deal with PB's raccoon mask? How will Jaal react to us being humans=aliens from his viewpoint? Cora isn't the pathfinder, will there be conflict about it? Just how far can you go with Liam's idealistic personality (we killed these aliens for the greater good... yeah, sure)? I don't want to have to know them because woooo, banging. I want to want to know them, their personality, motivations, etc.
I'll be honest. I don't want a gay Liam. I want a great character Liam who can be gay. I don't want Cora to be just a new Miranda/Ash with constant butt view conversations and marketable sexy sex scene. I want conflict about the position, earning her respect and such.
Besides as I said it yesterday: Cora is the only 100% confirmed straight romance, PB is 99% potential both because of the game lore. Liam, Jaal, and Vetra are still open for everyone and Cora can be lesbian option too. I wrote examples using their "has to make sense" argument.
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Post by naytnavare on Feb 26, 2017 7:56:04 GMT
I just want to chime in and say I personally don't think they're pulling anything or trying to sideline the LGBT community, deliberately or otherwise. It's really obvious the smoke and mirrors over romances is because they just don't want to deal with people like the ones on this forum. They got a lot of grief over Cassandra's supposed manliness, women who were pissy over not being able to romance Dorian, or gay guys who couldn't romance Cullen. Fights over romance were probably like 90% of the reason they shut down the old forums. The amount of shit that was thrown because of the Jaal leak is proof of how toxic this forum can be. Shit, by the way, that would (see DA:I) be thrown even if the Devs explicitly stated Jaal's heterosexuality ahead of time Furthermore, playersexual romances are not the answer. They are an insulting cop-out which only turn the clock back on LGBT representation. Like they're so afraid of offending both us and straight players that they have to pretend most of the spectrum of sexual orientation doesn't really exist in an improbably high number of people in your immediate social circle who just so happen to want to bang you. Playersexual makes PLAYERS happy. There is not enough resources in all of gaming to make a single game that can hit every single spectrum at full, equal lengths. It's a real-world impossibility. The best, to me, would be to make it so every player has a chance at finding their happiness, but opening up the game and characters to all.
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Post by jjdxb on Feb 26, 2017 7:57:25 GMT
Either way, the worst of it all is that this won't end well for them. Whether coming out with everything, now, and dealing with people being upset and getting over it in time for launch (or not picking up the game, as per the tin foil hats) versus them waiting and people being disappointed them, which is worse is up for debate. What is NOT up for debate is that someone will leak from files, or a guide, and everyone will know, anyhow. At that point, it WILL be out of their hands. They can either be proactive or not, but they have the power to release the info, on their terms, OR THEY CAN WAIT FOR PEOPLE TO DO IT FOR THEM, at which point, the same damage will be done, without the benefit of at least being the ones to reveal it. Fans will be much less upset, as a whole, if Bioware at least owns up on it all, versus someone else leaking it. The shitstorm is smaller if it's just leaked because the only ones who care that much about it are concentrated on this forum. When you say fans, you mean "very small subset" of fans, because the mass effect subreddit is not this worked up about it, and there are just as many LGBT folks there as here.
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Post by wright1978 on Feb 26, 2017 7:59:00 GMT
don't agree with that logic. i do think learning major plot spoilers before encountering them affects the experience. Equally once out there they will be spread to far more than those bothering the devs on twitter. But it's a subjective thing, is what I'm saying. The devs act like fans knowing things = BAD, SAD, & RUINED FOREVER when for a lot of people that's simply not the case. People who want to remain completely, 100% in the dark about new developments are free to feel that way - but it's their responsibility to avoid spoilers, not demand that everybody else be as in the dark as they are. From their point of view it is bad, not only from the creative view of wanting your work digested as you designed rather than piecemeal out of context but also from a commercial one because controlling information is how they build hype. Users don't have a right to demand to be spoiled either.
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Post by naytnavare on Feb 26, 2017 7:59:54 GMT
Announcing the romances before release would be bad. Oh sure, "yay I can plan my wedding with the *choice*" but that's it. That's the whole character after that. If they decide to reveal the orientations they might as well just post pictures of squadmates with tags. Gay, lesbian, sexypostergirlforstraights, etc. It would affect the reception of that character. Oh, s/he's not for me, I won't bother with them, moving on. Without it the focus is on the characters themselves. What's the deal with PB's raccoon mask? How will Jaal react to us being humans=aliens from his viewpoint? Cora isn't the pathfinder, will there be conflict about it? Just how far can you go with Liam's idealistic personality (we killed these aliens for the greater good... yeah, sure)? I don't want to have to know them because woooo, banging. I want to want to know them, their personality, motivations, etc. I'll be honest. I don't want a gay Liam. I want a great character Liam who can be gay. I don't want Cora to be just a new Miranda/Ash with constant butt view conversations and marketable sexy sex scene. I want conflict about the position, earning her respect and such. Besides as I said it yesterday: Cora is the only 100% confirmed straight romance, PB is 99% potential both because of the game lore. Liam, Jaal, and Vetra are still open for everyone and Cora can be lesbian option too. I wrote examples using their "has to make sense" argument. ... That's illogical, to me. Anyone who is put off even /caring/ about a character due to romance information would just do so now, instead, at launch. Not only does that argue characters are JUST their sexuality to the fandom, but it also just follows the same issue being highlighted; people want to know who they can romance. Whether I can or can't romance PeeBee doesn't mean I will or won't care about her. It only means I won't try to #prettygoodbanging her.
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Post by naytnavare on Feb 26, 2017 8:02:44 GMT
Either way, the worst of it all is that this won't end well for them. Whether coming out with everything, now, and dealing with people being upset and getting over it in time for launch (or not picking up the game, as per the tin foil hats) versus them waiting and people being disappointed them, which is worse is up for debate. What is NOT up for debate is that someone will leak from files, or a guide, and everyone will know, anyhow. At that point, it WILL be out of their hands. They can either be proactive or not, but they have the power to release the info, on their terms, OR THEY CAN WAIT FOR PEOPLE TO DO IT FOR THEM, at which point, the same damage will be done, without the benefit of at least being the ones to reveal it. Fans will be much less upset, as a whole, if Bioware at least owns up on it all, versus someone else leaking it. The shitstorm is smaller if it's just leaked because the only ones who care that much about it are concentrated on this forum. When you say fans, you mean "very small subset" of fans, because the mass effect subreddit is not this worked up about it, and there are just as many LGBT folks there as here. Let's look at the ME3 fiasco. If they were honest about it, upfront, then I genuinely believe less people would have been upset, knowing what to expect. Yes, yes, spoilers and all that, but this is a thinking exercise and hypothetical, nothing more. Either way, people can either deal with disappointment and 'feelings of betrayal' (for lack of a better, singular term at 3 AM), or just disappointment. As my mother always said, it's better to be honest.
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