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Post by Deleted on Mar 2, 2017 11:36:44 GMT
If crewmates have scenes like this I will stop complain it, well maybe not, who am I kidding because straight characters will have always a spot in the squad, but I would be very satisfied as player, however this never going to happen because scenes like the one above only happen to squadmates. ^ Ex-fookin'-actly. Only squadmates get these beautiful, rare, and built up moments in the game, and a more in depth connection establish by potentially hours upon hours of spending time with them on missions. So yeah, if we don't get a squadmate, not really anything is gunna justify it for me.
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Post by wright1978 on Mar 2, 2017 11:46:55 GMT
Anything been confirmed other than Cora for BroRyder yet? Cora is only one properly confirmed to anyone. However everything suggests that Peebee is LI for broryder as well, I'd say that's 99% sure ^^ Beyond that there is only teases, leaks and speculation. Don't see in what way peebee's more confirmed for bro than fem Ryder. Likelihood of both really is Asari expectations are maintained.
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Post by zaefkol on Mar 2, 2017 11:58:30 GMT
If crewmates have scenes like this I will stop complain it, well maybe not, who am I kidding because straight characters will have always a spot in the squad, but I would be very satisfied as player, however this never going to happen because scenes like the one above only happen to squadmates. ^ Ex-fookin'-actly. Only squadmates get these beautiful, rare, and built up moments in the game, and a more in depth connection establish by potentially hours upon hours of spending time with them on missions. So yeah, if we don't get a squadmate, not really anything is gunna justify it for me. Agreed.
There is simply no substitute for the type of content that squadmates get. Bioware could even add extra dialogues to the crew LIs, giving them more than the squadmates, to equalize the overall amount of content between them, but there are certain things that can only happen in the field.
That all being said, had Joker been a m/m love interest, I would have thrown Kaidan under the bus (and this is coming from someone who wanted to have Kaidan as a romance option since the first time we meet him). So, it's certainly possible to create a good crew LI, but having a good crew LI does not excuse excluding a particular orientation from specific kinds of romance content through the lack of a squad LI.
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Post by Panda on Mar 2, 2017 12:18:47 GMT
Cora is only one properly confirmed to anyone. However everything suggests that Peebee is LI for broryder as well, I'd say that's 99% sure ^^ Beyond that there is only teases, leaks and speculation. Don't see in what way peebee's more confirmed for bro than fem Ryder. Likelihood of both really is Asari expectations are maintained. Question was about broryder, so I simply answered thinking broryder. I agree that she's pretty much confirmed for both at this point.
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Post by shahwyrd on Mar 2, 2017 12:33:08 GMT
In my opinion Jaal would be the perfect opportunity to make an alien a m/m option too. I mean he's from another galaxy entirely? Don't really see why a concept like being straight (or gay/bi) would be a thing for them. Or any species living in Andromeda for that matter. It'd be interesting if they had very different concepts of sexuality and gender. But who am I kidding. That'll probably never happen. Anywho, still definitely rooting for a m/m squadmate romance even though all hope seems lost at this point but that's probably my anxiety kicking in. (Give us gay/bi men what we want, Bioware lol)
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Post by Ianamus on Mar 2, 2017 12:59:13 GMT
I've not held any hope for more than 2 NPC male humans for Scott since the leaks started going around a few weeks ago, but I've mostly got over it and accepted it now. It is a very poor showing, and I'm definitely going to be telling them so after I've played, but hopefully a combination of seeing our feedback and an easier development cycle will give us more varied options next time around.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 2, 2017 13:04:23 GMT
I've not held any hope for more than 2 NPC male humans for Scott since the leaks started going around a few weeks ago, but I've mostly got over it and accepted it now. It is a very poor showing, and I'm definitely going to be telling them so after I've played, but hopefully a combination of seeing our feedback and an easier development cycle will give us more varied options next time around. After ME3, and the prospect of a revert to how it used to be before the steady progression we saw in ME3, why honestly wait around for another 5 years for them to get their act together and actual strike towards having an equal balance for everyone?
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Post by Panda on Mar 2, 2017 13:11:41 GMT
Yep, it's kinda bad if ME3 has fairer romance options than ME:A, ME:A should be improvement not downgrade. That's why I'm still expecting that squad will have m/m option, other wouldn't make sense.
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Post by Ianamus on Mar 2, 2017 13:23:44 GMT
I've not held any hope for more than 2 NPC male humans for Scott since the leaks started going around a few weeks ago, but I've mostly got over it and accepted it now. It is a very poor showing, and I'm definitely going to be telling them so after I've played, but hopefully a combination of seeing our feedback and an easier development cycle will give us more varied options next time around. After ME3, and the prospect of a revert to how it used to be before the steady progression we saw in ME3, why honestly wait around for another 5 years for them to get their act together and actual strike towards having an equal balance for everyone? It's a step back from ME3, but not a revert. I'm not thrilled at the prospect of another wait, although I doubt it will take 5 years now that all of the technology behind Andromeda is in place. But I've accepted that I'll have to wait. It's not like being angry and shouting is going to change anything right now. There are a lot of things that I wanted in Andromeda that have not been able to go into the base game due to time and budget restraints, as well as the setting change. I already knew that there wouldn't be any Quarian squadmates or crew, and that I'd likely have to wait until the next game to potentially get one, and that Jaal would be the only new alien on our team. So I just accepted that this is something I'll have to wait for as well. The fact that none of the characters we know about, including Jaal, really speak to me as LI's helps. And honestly, with only six squadmates I'm not particularly surprised. Inquisition was great in it's diversity- but it also had double the number of characters to work with. In any case, the next game should have more than that because they won't need to create all of the assets and concept from scratch to fit a new setting and engine. I'm not jumping for joy looking forward to it or eager about the wait, but right now I'm content with pushing the romance elements to the side and enjoying Andromeda for what it is. Obviously I'll still tell Bioware that it was a mistake and I want them to do better in the future, but I'm not going to let it impact my enjoyment of the game any more than it already has.
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Post by KalleDemos on Mar 2, 2017 13:48:51 GMT
But not showing/promoting them doesn't mean they're not important. Joker, Adams, Chocolates, Gabby&Kent were fan favorites, let's add similar characters with more content. The names you mentioned are the results and probably there are others like them. Gil confirmed, Suvi semi-confirmed, Lexi is hope-LI and after the success of DAI I don't think they are just sideline romances. They have always improved on the squad/crew interactions. ME1 long elevator rides and walkuptothem cutcenes. ->Add Kelly to signal when they have important things to say. Still had about 25 chats with Garrus about calibrations.->ME3 talk if there is something new, 'hi' if there isn't. I think they'll do the same in MEA with more DAI like casual chats (Josie and the chantry)/interactions (Cullen and chess). Both for LIs and non-LIs. I think everyone on the Tempest is an important part of the crew and story, no one will be there to just 'be there'. This is a smaller and ~civilian ship no need for guards to stand at a door or nameless grunts walking around in circles. I like your optimism, but I'll believe it when I see it. I still doubt that the other crew member romance will have equal quantity, quality, and plot importance to those that squad mates have. I could not see how, say, Gil will be as important as Jaal. And even if they are equal, I still very much prefer squad mate romance. I like the idea of spending time fighting and exploring along side with an LI. I would be quite upset if straight dudes get more than one squad mate romances (which seem to be the case), while there are no m/m squad romance. Bioware has promised variety in romance, and I expect that they deliver such variety not only just for straight guys but to all. This. Even IF the amount of content is equal, which I can't see how it could be, the dynamics are completely different. Squad Mates, Companions will always be held to a higher standard than the rest of the cast because we will spend most of out time with them. Intentionally excluding m/m romances from that standard would be a huge step backwards and discriminatory. I for one will not be praising Bioware should the leaks turn out to be accurate. media.giphy.com/media/b4pPnoO1QDd1C/giphy.gif
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Post by Deleted on Mar 2, 2017 13:58:00 GMT
KalleDemos What about the entire idea that we should accept and respect the characters that BW feels like writing and we should not demand characters based on quotas and sexual orientations. I remeber a lot of folks bringing that point up when people were dissatisfied with DA:I team. Like that BW is entitled to the artistic freedom to create the team they feel works better with their story. Does that argument stopped working here? That would be called.....hypocrisy and double-standard you know.
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Post by Panda on Mar 2, 2017 14:15:21 GMT
KalleDemos What about the entire idea that we should accept and respect the characters that BW feels like writing and we should not demand characters based on quotas and sexual orientations. I remeber a lot of people bringing that point up when people were dissatisfied with DA:I team. Does that argument stopped working here? That would be called.....hypocrisy and double-standard you know. There is some conflict between game mechanics and maintaining artistic vision. Game studios should balance between these. Bioware makes RPG games where our protagonist can be who we create. Romancing character is part of that in majority of Bioware's games. If there isn't romance options for all or they are unfair then game mechanic has suffered from possibly artistic vision (there is other reasons why it might have suffered as well). That means that game's value goes down, it's not that enjoyable anymore. In terms of dissatisfaction with DAI team. I think it was more about subjective stuff like "Cassandra looks like a man" than game mechanic itself being unfair. I don't think people can ever agree on subjective opinions, but game mechanics like romances in terms of options are pretty objective when you are thinking math. And if your problem is m/f getting 2 options when f/m (human and elf) got 4- well f/f and m/m got same and it's not like m/f hadn't got more than others in other BW games. I think everyone thinking with their head can agree that it's wrong that there is 0 m/m romances in ME1 and ME2- and there might be 0 in ME:A's squad.
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Post by witchcocktor on Mar 2, 2017 14:16:05 GMT
KalleDemos What about the entire idea that we should accept and respect the characters that BW feels like writing and we should not demand characters based on quotas and sexual orientations. I remeber a lot of folks bringing that point up when people were dissatisfied with DA:I team. Like that BW is entitled to the artistic freedom to create the team they feel works better with their story. Does that argument stopped working here? That would be called.....hypocrisy and double-standard you know. Would you be saying this if none of the squadmate options were open to your orientation, and all your possible romances were shit NPCs with no importance to the story, with shit romance that is not as fleshed out as the rest? Or would you be calling a high percentage of gay in your squad '' pandering '' and '' unrealistic '' rather than ARTISTIC FREEDOM? Yes, the writers and devs certainly have artistic freedom and that's great, but does artistic freedom mean that we aren't allowed to criticize it? Just like everyone has the freedom to express their opinion, I'm allowed to criticize that opinion because I have that right as well.
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Post by Kian on Mar 2, 2017 14:20:35 GMT
KalleDemos What about the entire idea that we should accept and respect the characters that BW feels like writing and we should not demand characters based on quotas and sexual orientations. I remeber a lot of folks bringing that point up when people were dissatisfied with DA:I team. Like that BW is entitled to the artistic freedom to create the team they feel works better with their story. Does that argument stopped working here? That would be called.....hypocrisy and double-standard you know. Good try. Bioware's claims and current behaviour are what people are questioning and rightfully pointing out. What you're saying completely misses the point, and given how you end your message (as if you simply couldn't hide your contempt all the way, with your "pretend to be a voice of reason" ruse and you just had to end it in a spiteful way), it's obvious you're being intentionally disingenuous. For your efforts:
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Post by Panda on Mar 2, 2017 14:35:58 GMT
Any case straight men have always had at least 2 options to romance since Jade Empire, they have had most options in majority of games, and Cora and Peebee are pretty much already confirmed for m/f romances, so they don't have objectively anything to complain about. Sure people have different subjective opinions and are free to express them, but objectively they have it good.
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Post by naytnavare on Mar 2, 2017 15:03:32 GMT
KalleDemos What about the entire idea that we should accept and respect the characters that BW feels like writing and we should not demand characters based on quotas and sexual orientations. I remeber a lot of folks bringing that point up when people were dissatisfied with DA:I team. Like that BW is entitled to the artistic freedom to create the team they feel works better with their story. Does that argument stopped working here? That would be called.....hypocrisy and double-standard you know. I don't think anyone is asking for some magic number or checking a spreadsheet. People want a core mechanic of ANY classic Bioware game, the romance, to be available to them in a full and equal way. As is their right. Also, respecting Bioware's 'artistic freedom' worked wonders for the ME3 ending and fallout, amirite?
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Post by megs80 on Mar 2, 2017 15:05:49 GMT
Ah that's true. Not only flirt lines can be dangerously interpreted as romance stuff, Bioware might even have some left-over lines like with Cullen and Solas. So I guess datamining doesn't really confirm anything either : / Actually, that depends. Do you think they can datamine "no homo" scenes? If we're assuming all hetero romances get a "no homo" scene, then we could find out that way who might be straight. Can't decide whether to be concerned by your cynicism or impressed by your ingenuity... (Thank you Biotic Apostate! Gif Works )
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Post by naytnavare on Mar 2, 2017 15:31:51 GMT
Any case straight men have always had at least 2 options to romance since Jade Empire, they have had most options in majority of games, and Cora and Peebee are pretty much already confirmed for m/f romances, so they don't have objectively anything to complain about. Sure people have different subjective opinions and are free to express them, but objectively they have it good. If you mean squadmates/companions, not wholly true. DAI. If you mean that straight have at least Cora confirmed and should be happy, fair-ish. If you mean that straight men cannot complain, well... sorry. That's just silly. Straight men have ONLY Cora confirmed, there is no 'pretty much confirmed' for PeeBee, or any other LI or sexual orientation combo. Historically, do straight men have more love interests? Jeebus Christy, yeah. It's a crap show, and I hope Bioware had learned. But to say straight men objectively 'have it good' is very subjective. What if Cora sucks? What if PeeBee is only F/F? Sorry, I'm with you. There NEEDS to be more LIs for all and everyone, but I don't agree with the absolutism of this statement.
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Post by megs80 on Mar 2, 2017 15:35:51 GMT
KalleDemos What about the entire idea that we should accept and respect the characters that BW feels like writing and we should not demand characters based on quotas and sexual orientations. I remeber a lot of folks bringing that point up when people were dissatisfied with DA:I team. Like that BW is entitled to the artistic freedom to create the team they feel works better with their story. Does that argument stopped working here? That would be called.....hypocrisy and double-standard you know. Firstly I expect the people voicing those complaints were a different crowd (Diversity=Dissatisfying characters? Nope not a comment I've heard on this thread). Secondly Artistic freedom is great but if diversity is the hindrance to it then it sounds like you need to get a more varied team , lack of focus/direction can be detrimental and too many parts can further compound that issue but with a strong enough centre the variety compliments rather than detracts.
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Post by wright1978 on Mar 2, 2017 15:58:15 GMT
KalleDemos What about the entire idea that we should accept and respect the characters that BW feels like writing and we should not demand characters based on quotas and sexual orientations. I remeber a lot of people bringing that point up when people were dissatisfied with DA:I team. Does that argument stopped working here? That would be called.....hypocrisy and double-standard you know. There is some conflict between game mechanics and maintaining artistic vision. Game studios should balance between these. Bioware makes RPG games where our protagonist can be who we create. Romancing character is part of that in majority of Bioware's games. If there isn't romance options for all or they are unfair then game mechanic has suffered from possibly artistic vision (there is other reasons why it might have suffered as well). That means that game's value goes down, it's not that enjoyable anymore. In terms of dissatisfaction with DAI team. I think it was more about subjective stuff like "Cassandra looks like a man" than game mechanic itself being unfair. I don't think people can ever agree on subjective opinions, but game mechanics like romances in terms of options are pretty objective when you are thinking math. And if your problem is m/f getting 2 options when f/m (human and elf) got 4- well f/f and m/m got same and it's not like m/f hadn't got more than others in other BW games. I think everyone thinking with their head can agree that it's wrong that there is 0 m/m romances in ME1 and ME2- and there might be 0 in ME:A's squad. I think what's fair/unfair in romance options is very much subjective. I certainly think they'll have to have a fairly impressive explanation if it turns out there are not 1 male squaddie available to a male Ryder. I still think there will be one though.
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Post by naytnavare on Mar 2, 2017 16:06:03 GMT
There is some conflict between game mechanics and maintaining artistic vision. Game studios should balance between these. Bioware makes RPG games where our protagonist can be who we create. Romancing character is part of that in majority of Bioware's games. If there isn't romance options for all or they are unfair then game mechanic has suffered from possibly artistic vision (there is other reasons why it might have suffered as well). That means that game's value goes down, it's not that enjoyable anymore. In terms of dissatisfaction with DAI team. I think it was more about subjective stuff like "Cassandra looks like a man" than game mechanic itself being unfair. I don't think people can ever agree on subjective opinions, but game mechanics like romances in terms of options are pretty objective when you are thinking math. And if your problem is m/f getting 2 options when f/m (human and elf) got 4- well f/f and m/m got same and it's not like m/f hadn't got more than others in other BW games. I think everyone thinking with their head can agree that it's wrong that there is 0 m/m romances in ME1 and ME2- and there might be 0 in ME:A's squad. I think what's fair/unfair in romance options is very much subjective. I certainly think they'll have to have a fairly impressive explanation if it turns out there are not 1 male squaddie available to a male Ryder. I still think there will be one though. I look forward to the deserved backlash if they don't.
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Post by witchcocktor on Mar 2, 2017 16:13:26 GMT
There is some conflict between game mechanics and maintaining artistic vision. Game studios should balance between these. Bioware makes RPG games where our protagonist can be who we create. Romancing character is part of that in majority of Bioware's games. If there isn't romance options for all or they are unfair then game mechanic has suffered from possibly artistic vision (there is other reasons why it might have suffered as well). That means that game's value goes down, it's not that enjoyable anymore. In terms of dissatisfaction with DAI team. I think it was more about subjective stuff like "Cassandra looks like a man" than game mechanic itself being unfair. I don't think people can ever agree on subjective opinions, but game mechanics like romances in terms of options are pretty objective when you are thinking math. And if your problem is m/f getting 2 options when f/m (human and elf) got 4- well f/f and m/m got same and it's not like m/f hadn't got more than others in other BW games. I think everyone thinking with their head can agree that it's wrong that there is 0 m/m romances in ME1 and ME2- and there might be 0 in ME:A's squad. I think what's fair/unfair in romance options is very much subjective. I certainly think they'll have to have a fairly impressive explanation if it turns out there are not 1 male squaddie available to a male Ryder. I still think there will be one though. I really want to hear that explanation! It'll be fantastic.
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Post by davkar on Mar 2, 2017 16:21:33 GMT
Any case straight men have always had at least 2 options to romance since Jade Empire, they have had most options in majority of games, and Cora and Peebee are pretty much already confirmed for m/f romances, so they don't have objectively anything to complain about. Sure people have different subjective opinions and are free to express them, but objectively they have it good. If you mean squadmates/companions, not wholly true. DAI. If you mean that straight have at least Cora confirmed and should be happy, fair-ish. If you mean that straight men cannot complain, well... sorry. That's just silly. Straight men have ONLY Cora confirmed, there is no 'pretty much confirmed' for PeeBee, or any other LI or sexual orientation combo. Historically, do straight men have more love interests? Jeebus Christy, yeah. It's a crap show, and I hope Bioware had learned. But to say straight men objectively 'have it good' is very subjective. What if Cora sucks? What if PeeBee is only F/F? Sorry, I'm with you. There NEEDS to be more LIs for all and everyone, but I don't agree with the absolutism of this statement. Sooo what is the forum policy on phrasing? DAI was good with the lgbt representation yet it wasn't because Dorian is stereotypical gay and something something Sera something. How are those criticisms any different than the straight ones complaining about 'ugly' Cass? I still think Jaal is a gay option. Well not pure gay, but bi, take your victories where you can. Since Gil was ~confirmed I think Liam's chances dropped, but Jaal is still very much a possibility. This way the human (ew) lovers get one and the alienmancers (high five my fellow weirdos! ) too.
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Post by Panda on Mar 2, 2017 16:26:52 GMT
Any case straight men have always had at least 2 options to romance since Jade Empire, they have had most options in majority of games, and Cora and Peebee are pretty much already confirmed for m/f romances, so they don't have objectively anything to complain about. Sure people have different subjective opinions and are free to express them, but objectively they have it good. If you mean squadmates/companions, not wholly true. DAI. If you mean that straight have at least Cora confirmed and should be happy, fair-ish. If you mean that straight men cannot complain, well... sorry. That's just silly. Straight men have ONLY Cora confirmed, there is no 'pretty much confirmed' for PeeBee, or any other LI or sexual orientation combo. Historically, do straight men have more love interests? Jeebus Christy, yeah. It's a crap show, and I hope Bioware had learned. But to say straight men objectively 'have it good' is very subjective. What if Cora sucks? What if PeeBee is only F/F? Sorry, I'm with you. There NEEDS to be more LIs for all and everyone, but I don't agree with the absolutism of this statement. Cullen and Josie were equal romances to companions as advisors really. Peebee is 99% confirmed. I'm saying that there isn't lot of objective complaints they can have when they already have squaddie, pretty much two. Looks, personality and how romance plays out are pretty subjective stuff. Cora pretty much can't objectively suck. I mean sure if she was without any fans in the end or none romanced her, but liking squad-mates in BW's games have been pretty subjective thing. All characters have had their fans and haters this far. Peebee being f/f, is there change of that happening.. 1%? It is quite statement though ^^ There is some conflict between game mechanics and maintaining artistic vision. Game studios should balance between these. Bioware makes RPG games where our protagonist can be who we create. Romancing character is part of that in majority of Bioware's games. If there isn't romance options for all or they are unfair then game mechanic has suffered from possibly artistic vision (there is other reasons why it might have suffered as well). That means that game's value goes down, it's not that enjoyable anymore. In terms of dissatisfaction with DAI team. I think it was more about subjective stuff like "Cassandra looks like a man" than game mechanic itself being unfair. I don't think people can ever agree on subjective opinions, but game mechanics like romances in terms of options are pretty objective when you are thinking math. And if your problem is m/f getting 2 options when f/m (human and elf) got 4- well f/f and m/m got same and it's not like m/f hadn't got more than others in other BW games. I think everyone thinking with their head can agree that it's wrong that there is 0 m/m romances in ME1 and ME2- and there might be 0 in ME:A's squad. I think what's fair/unfair in romance options is very much subjective. I certainly think they'll have to have a fairly impressive explanation if it turns out there are not 1 male squaddie available to a male Ryder. I still think there will be one though. Numbers aren't that subjective. Quality sure. More impressive than: "Shepard is straight and fem!shepard romancing Liara is straight (and Kelly doesn't matter)?" Yep they will have some explaining to do. They might just ignore it though, probably will at least try. I'm pretty much thinking that there will be one, cause I can't fanthom them not having even one bi guy in the squad.
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Post by not so salty shark on Mar 2, 2017 16:27:08 GMT
I think what's fair/unfair in romance options is very much subjective. I certainly think they'll have to have a fairly impressive explanation if it turns out there are not 1 male squaddie available to a male Ryder. I still think there will be one though. I look forward to the deserved backlash if they don't. In all likelihood they'll try to ignore the issue until the outrage grows loud enough, and then give a very ham-handed excuse that will just piss people off even more. And then a male sqaddie will eventually have bisexuality patched in if we're lucky. The thing most disturbing to me about the leak: that the lack of squad homosexual male romance options was done intentionally. If there's any truth to that I have no words for Team ME except SHAME ON YOU. :smh:
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