Nightlife
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Missing the Milky Way
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Post by Nightlife on Feb 4, 2017 23:57:02 GMT
I tweeted Ian Frazier (@tibermoon) - Lead Designer on ME:A about this earlier. I said: "@tibermoon Worry on new BSN forums that M/M romance scenes show less than their M/F + F/F counterparts. Dorian showed butt in DA:I; comment?"
I didn't hear back, but, I'm sure he got it. He's very active on Twitter so at least he knows it's a concern. It may be a rating issue. The ratings board already gave it an 'M' however.
I'll be disappointed if it doesn't at least equal Dorian's scene in DA:I.
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Post by Panda on Feb 5, 2017 0:02:50 GMT
That's good point. LGBT+ characters do exist outside of romances (which is also shown in BW games a bit) and taking romances out of game wouldn't make all characters straight suddenly. <snip for size> Yep, there is rarely any NPCs around in same sex relationships. DA had some like Wade and Herren but they weren't stated as couple in the game, just outside of it. Sometimes the lack of same-sex relationships even seems to go against games narrative. Like Skyrim has this: everyone is bisexual (or playersexual who knows) approach and nobody pats an eye when you marry spouse of same-sex. Although everyone is supposed to be bi or sth like that, I don't remember any NPCs in the game being in same-sex relationships. Every guy had wife, every girl had husband or boy who was into them.. It's like everyone were actually straight.. until they met Dragonborn. Who everyone was into for some reason. Kinda weird actually, lot "weirder" than having actually gay and lesbian couples in the game.
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PhatePhoenix
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Post by PhatePhoenix on Feb 5, 2017 0:10:24 GMT
[GRUMPILY] It's just butts, Bioware, I don't get it.
Unless it's, like, too many butts makes the rating go up? Critical butt limited reached? Just take out one boob-shot, that'll get you, like, six butts. C'mon.
However, [EVEN MORE GRUMPILY] we can't get too mad because these are just leaks and we don't know what's all in the game, so.
But, I swear to all that's good, Bioware, if you used "nonsexual romances" to hide that you made the m/m scenes super vanilla...
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Post by Deleted on Feb 5, 2017 0:11:43 GMT
I tweeted Ian Frazier (@tibermoon) - Lead Designer on ME:A about this earlier. I said: "@tibermoon Worry on new BSN forums that M/M romance scenes show less than their M/F + F/F counterparts. Dorian showed butt in DA:I; comment?" I didn't hear back, but, I'm sure he got it. He's very active on Twitter so at least he knows it's a concern. It may be a rating issue. The ratings board already gave it an 'M' however. I'll be disappointed if it doesn't at least equal Dorian's scene in DA:I. ESRB doesn't consider m/m scenes any more "rating worthy" than other scenes. So a m/m scene with rear nudity and a m/f scene with the same amount of rear nudity would get the same category "nudity" and affect the rating in the same way.
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Foelhe
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Post by Foelhe on Feb 5, 2017 0:11:49 GMT
That's a bit disappointing, but as long as both Sara and Scott get the same scene with Jaal I won't be too upset. None of the previous male aliens got any nudity either. Thinking about it, other than Asari no aliens have, so It's not exactly unexpected.
It also depends on the scene in question. Some scenes can be very hot and sexually charged without the removing of clothes. That Fenris kissing scene was hotter than anything else Bioware has offered, though that's probably just personal preference. Ultimately I don't mind much myself. Tali, Fenris and Josephine are my favorite LI's across all Bioware games, and all of them remained fully clothes throughout the entirety of their romances. I never even saw Tali's face. But I do feel for the players who wanted at least Dorian-level scenes in their Scott x male human LI's in Andromeda. Ultimately, I don't need to see nudity in the romance scenes either. After all, until DA: I, the most anyone had gotten was some implied, partial nudity in some of the ME scenes. But I think, again, that this is yet another example of a small irksome thing that just adds to the cumulative small irksome things that seem to happen to gay audiences at a much more consistent rate than other groups. Death by a thousand papercuts. I'm more worried this says something about the attitude the devs brought into the M/M romances. Anytime they include nudity in the game, they have to work on a new model for the naked character. If they worked hard to include Peebee in the buff, but went "Eh, not worth the resources" for Jaal, that doesn't bode well for the rest of the content. I'm fine without nudity, but I'm not gonna be pleased if they slacked on everything else.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 5, 2017 0:15:46 GMT
Ultimately, I don't need to see nudity in the romance scenes either. After all, until DA: I, the most anyone had gotten was some implied, partial nudity in some of the ME scenes. But I think, again, that this is yet another example of a small irksome thing that just adds to the cumulative small irksome things that seem to happen to gay audiences at a much more consistent rate than other groups. Death by a thousand papercuts. I'm more worried this says something about the attitude the devs brought into the M/M romances. Anytime they include nudity in the game, they have to work on a new model for the naked character. If they worked hard to include Peebee in the buff, but went "Eh, not worth the resources" for Jaal, that doesn't bode well for the rest of the content. I'm fine without nudity, but I'm not gonna be pleased if they slacked on everything else. Not sure I want to see a naked Angara... but an Asari makes sense because her anatomy is like a human.
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Post by Foelhe on Feb 5, 2017 0:23:15 GMT
I'm more worried this says something about the attitude the devs brought into the M/M romances. Anytime they include nudity in the game, they have to work on a new model for the naked character. If they worked hard to include Peebee in the buff, but went "Eh, not worth the resources" for Jaal, that doesn't bode well for the rest of the content. I'm fine without nudity, but I'm not gonna be pleased if they slacked on everything else. Not sure I want to see a naked Angara... but an Asari makes sense because her anatomy is like a human. Point, shouldn't have focused on Jaal. Our Latino/Arabic male LI doesn't make sense. If BioWare just doesn't put the effort into really odd-looking nonhumans, I get that, they did the same thing for Garrus. If they didn't bother with BroRyder and a male human, well, seems like a red flag.
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lightdrago3
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Legion Rebuilt
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Post by lightdrago3 on Feb 5, 2017 0:23:42 GMT
*sigh* I had a sudden bad feeling that gay males are going to get shafted in the romance department in a Mass a Effect game.
Again.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 5, 2017 0:29:15 GMT
Not sure I want to see a naked Angara... but an Asari makes sense because her anatomy is like a human. Point, shouldn't have focused on Jaal. Our Latino/Arabic male LI doesn't make sense. If BioWare just doesn't put the effort into really odd-looking nonhumans, I get that, they did the same thing for Garrus. If they didn't bother with BroRyder and a male human, well, seems like a red flag. Well I can't really judge the Angara tbh. If it's a shirtless scene and his chest is like a man's then maybe, but I don't think they will ever show detailed alien bodies without clothing. Especially Turians. On a lighter note, we get to see a Salarian's bare hands for once, so it's nice they expanded on the aliens features. I was always curious about their skin.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 5, 2017 0:30:29 GMT
*sigh* I had a sudden bad feeling that gay males are going to get shafted in the romance department in a Mass a Effect game. Again.Yep. I'm already preparing myself for disappointment. Because there has been literally nothing that suggests to me otherwise. Every piece of information in regards to romances suggests to me that I am going to be disappointed. And there being hushed up on revealing the love interest options is good for them, since they can avoid any potential backlash before launch. After launch, they won't care less about any backlash in regards to this, since the game will already be out and bought and sold, so they have no reason to respond to it.
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Nightlife
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Missing the Milky Way
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by Nightlife on Feb 5, 2017 0:39:14 GMT
*sigh* I had a sudden bad feeling that gay males are going to get shafted in the romance department in a Mass a Effect game. Again.I need to hurry up and become a Lead Designer at Bioware - so I can MAKE SURE gay men will get great scenes going forward. I'm sure there are gay men on the staff, but probably not in leadership positions. Also, can't we get at least a little more package/bulge? Boobs can be big (looking at you Diana Allers) why not packages I'm sure most women wouldn't mind either
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Post by Kian on Feb 5, 2017 1:21:18 GMT
*sigh* I had a sudden bad feeling that gay males are going to get shafted in the romance department in a Mass a Effect game. Again.I need to hurry up and become a Lead Designer at Bioware - so I can MAKE SURE gay men will get great scenes going forward. I'm sure there are gay men on the staff, but probably not in leadership positions. Also, can't we get at least a little more package/bulge? Boobs can be big (looking at you Diana Allers) why not packages I'm sure most women wouldn't mind either Ha! This is actually a pet peeve of mine. The bulge size I mean. I am so very irritated and bored of seeing ken dolls every-freakin'-where in games. With exceptions. Eh. This might be the main reason I finally decided to embrace mods... Playing Skyrim at the moment, while we wait for MEA, with awesome nude mod and appropriately revealing clothes ... (yeah I know, I skipped a stage... hahaha)
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Post by Kian on Feb 5, 2017 1:31:40 GMT
Oh. And if it turns out that they indeed went for the homophobic path of censoring gay male content (again ), they better not try to justify it with some "it didn't make sense for these characters to get naked" bs... because, regardless of how ironically funny this is, considering a lot of the conversations in this thread, it would still be a major... f... a really... *1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10...*Anywho... Are we there yet? How much longer? 2 million days?
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Post by PhatePhoenix on Feb 5, 2017 1:36:15 GMT
Oh. And if it turns out that they indeed went for the homophobic path of censoring gay male content (again ), they better not try to justify it with some "it didn't make sense for these characters to get naked" bs... because, regardless of how ironically funny this is, considering a lot of the conversations in this thread, it would still be a major... f... a really... *1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10...*Anywho... Are we there yet? How much longer? 2 million days? [ CHECKS PHONE] 44 days, 3 hours, 23 minutes, 44 seconds.
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Post by Mihura on Feb 5, 2017 1:49:34 GMT
*sigh* I had a sudden bad feeling that gay males are going to get shafted in the romance department in a Mass a Effect game. Again.I need to hurry up and become a Lead Designer at Bioware - so I can MAKE SURE gay men will get great scenes going forward. I'm sure there are gay men on the staff, but probably not in leadership positions. Also, can't we get at least a little more package/bulge? Boobs can be big (looking at you Diana Allers) why not packages I'm sure most women wouldn't mind either Why not? also NSFW.
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Post by Artemis on Feb 5, 2017 2:51:46 GMT
*sigh* I had a sudden bad feeling that gay males are going to get shafted in the romance department in a Mass a Effect game. Again.I need to hurry up and become a Lead Designer at Bioware - so I can MAKE SURE gay men will get great scenes going forward. I'm sure there are gay men on the staff, but probably not in leadership positions. Also, can't we get at least a little more package/bulge? Boobs can be big (looking at you Diana Allers) why not packages I'm sure most women wouldn't mind either OMG!! I vote no Also to giant breasts. I never noticed bulges were too small or too big or... I just never noticed But I do notice the massive tits on all female NPCs. ALSO the SAGGING in Dragon Age women COME ON BioWare; I know it is like the medieval times or some shit but give these women bras!!!!!
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Post by theratpack55 on Feb 5, 2017 8:44:04 GMT
Ha! This is actually a pet peeve of mine. The bulge size I mean. I am so very irritated and bored of seeing ken dolls every-freakin'-where in games. With exceptions. Eh. This might be the main reason I finally decided to embrace mods... Playing Skyrim at the moment, while we wait for MEA, with awesome nude mod and appropriately revealing clothes ... (yeah I know, I skipped a stage... hahaha) Heh, same! I'm always bitter about the utter lack of bulge, while there's big boobs everywhere... And if we bring up the 'realism' argument, it's especially jarring in quasi-medieval settings since medieval fashion was all about the bulge. Men wore codpieces stuffed with stuff to emphasize the bulge ffs! The only game that I recall that gave the bulge some focus was saint's row 2-3, which let you enlarge it on your character, but that was mostly a gag feature. Ok, sorry guys, I'll stop talking about the bulge now.
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Post by Abramsrunner on Feb 5, 2017 8:53:15 GMT
Everyone is talking about Bulge, & Bust sizes, & I'm over here wondering what those Turians, & Krogans look like without their armor on 24/7.
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Post by jjdxb on Feb 5, 2017 10:23:39 GMT
*sigh* I had a sudden bad feeling that gay males are going to get shafted in the romance department in a Mass a Effect game. Again.Yep. I'm already preparing myself for disappointment. Because there has been literally nothing that suggests to me otherwise. Every piece of information in regards to romances suggests to me that I am going to be disappointed. And there being hushed up on revealing the love interest options is good for them, since they can avoid any potential backlash before launch. After launch, they won't care less about any backlash in regards to this, since the game will already be out and bought and sold, so they have no reason to respond to it. For what it's worth, while I will be disappointed if M/M romances get shafted, I think you are overestimating how concerned they are over sales losses over this. I really doubt that a lack of M/M nudity equality is going to make much of an impact in the sales department, especially if EA thinks they can hit 3mil in a week. This isn't just because we're gay/bi (Etc), it also because the people you see on this board are a tiny subsection of their target market, many and perhaps most of whom are not fans enough to be spending time on here to know the chances of being shafted. While I think they are definitely avoiding talking about it because of backlash, it's more for the sake of putting off dealing with a load of angry fans on twitter.
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Post by witchcocktor on Feb 5, 2017 11:50:15 GMT
You know, if the gay male content is going to be a complete disastrous bust, I'm curious to see how the devs are going to explain their decision on why the MLM content is lesser and not appealing to gay/bi male players, and whether they admit their shortcomings or stand by their decision.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 5, 2017 11:55:42 GMT
You know, if the gay male content is going to be a complete disastrous bust, I'm curious to see how the devs are going to explain their decision on why the MLM content is lesser and not appealing to gay/bi male players, and whether they admit their shortcomings or stand by their decision. Have they ever admit that it was the wrong decision to claim shepard is straight in the first two games although female Shepard could romance Liara and Kelley? Just curious...
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Post by Panda on Feb 5, 2017 12:37:49 GMT
Yep. I'm already preparing myself for disappointment. Because there has been literally nothing that suggests to me otherwise. Every piece of information in regards to romances suggests to me that I am going to be disappointed. And there being hushed up on revealing the love interest options is good for them, since they can avoid any potential backlash before launch. After launch, they won't care less about any backlash in regards to this, since the game will already be out and bought and sold, so they have no reason to respond to it. For what it's worth, while I will be disappointed if M/M romances get shafted, I think you are overestimating how concerned they are over sales losses over this. I really doubt that a lack of M/M nudity equality is going to make much of an impact in the sales department, especially if EA thinks they can hit 3mil in a week. This isn't just because we're gay/bi (Etc), it also because the people you see on this board are a tiny subsection of their target market, many and perhaps most of whom are not fans enough to be spending time on here to know the chances of being shafted. While I think they are definitely avoiding talking about it because of backlash, it's more for the sake of putting off dealing with a load of angry fans on twitter. Sales won't probably suffer, but there is other things to consider. Reputation and Bioware fandom for example. People wouldn't be happy about that for sure.
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Post by Elsariel on Feb 5, 2017 13:24:58 GMT
I need to hurry up and become a Lead Designer at Bioware - so I can MAKE SURE gay men will get great scenes going forward. I'm sure there are gay men on the staff, but probably not in leadership positions. Also, can't we get at least a little more package/bulge? Boobs can be big (looking at you Diana Allers) why not packages I'm sure most women wouldn't mind either OMG!! I vote no Also to giant breasts. I never noticed bulges were too small or too big or... I just never noticed But I do notice the massive tits on all female NPCs. ALSO the SAGGING in Dragon Age women COME ON BioWare; I know it is like the medieval times or some shit but give these women bras!!!!! OR, you know, give them all perky breasts. There are some things that don't need to be THAT realistic. On the bulge thing, I cringe massively if I see like a giant bulge. I am a petite woman so my reaction is more like "that looks super painful" rather than "take me now". Lol! I haven't romanced The Iron Bull for this reason. I imagine his package is enormous.
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Post by Kian on Feb 5, 2017 14:46:33 GMT
OMG!! I vote no Also to giant breasts. I never noticed bulges were too small or too big or... I just never noticed But I do notice the massive tits on all female NPCs. ALSO the SAGGING in Dragon Age women COME ON BioWare; I know it is like the medieval times or some shit but give these women bras!!!!! OR, you know, give them all perky breasts. There are some things that don't need to be THAT realistic. On the bulge thing, I cringe massively if I see like a giant bulge. I am a petite woman so my reaction is more like "that looks super painful" rather than "take me now". Lol! I haven't romanced The Iron Bull for this reason. I imagine his package is enormous. LOL! No, the point here is (well at least my point, I won't speak for other people of course) that there's no need or want for a gigantic-poke-your-eyes-out-bulge (funny how little comment there is about the boobs who fit that category... I swear I must wear goggles when playing some games to avoid my eyes being put out by the huge pointy boobs). The point is that I find it extremely agravating that devs (most of them across all companies) make a conscious effort to MINIMIZE all bulges to the point of non-existance (non-existing ones are usually "balanced" - and I use that word bitterly - by shaded textures or whatever they're called, which create an illusion of 3rd). It's the same thing with gay representation in games in general. I don't expect 50% of the npcs to be gay. And I would be happy with even a bit less than 10% (even though people who cling desperately to the "gays are 0.000002% of the population" rethoric are severely lacking in the upstairs department). But when you see devs deliberately and systematically refusing or avoiding to have ANY gay characters at all, ever, then I lose my patience or good will towards them. Most devs/companies anyway. And while Bioware is a huge improvement over others, they can use a lot of improvement themselves (like I mentioned earlier, the lack of any and all gay npcs in the world is very telling of an underlying problem and it's present in Bioware games as well - so not counting the big npcs marketed as gay, you then go out in the world and find... 0... abso-fkn-lutely 0 gay npcs out of a few hundred. that's not realism, that's... well, I won't continue that sentence, I would get too worked up over it lol) So yeah, personally I'm not asking for HUGE bulges, I'm just asking for devs to stop castrating males in their games. A fairly decent demand if I do say so myself. Oh, and if anyone brings up "but think of the children" in this, as if a penis existing would somehow magically harm a child's mind (no point in going too deep in that conversation if one has more than 2 functioning neurons) please point them to the nearest hospital for the mentally ill.
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Post by Kian on Feb 5, 2017 14:48:22 GMT
You know, if the gay male content is going to be a complete disastrous bust, I'm curious to see how the devs are going to explain their decision on why the MLM content is lesser and not appealing to gay/bi male players, and whether they admit their shortcomings or stand by their decision. Have they ever admit that it was the wrong decision to claim shepard is straight in the first two games although female Shepard could romance Liara and Kelley? Just curious... I don't know for sure, if someone prooves me wrong on this, fantastic, I would be the first one to celebrate , but no, they have not. That would require things people who made those comments lack.
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