Mihura
N4
“Major Wulf Khan and the 903rd Catachan ‘Night Shrikes’…”
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: MihuraL
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Post by Mihura on Feb 19, 2017 0:53:28 GMT
Also, look, this argument is pretty pointless because it seems to hinge on this imaginary idea that every LGBT option has gotten the same amount of content and the same effort in that content as straight options. Was gay MaleShep shafted? Hell fucking yes. This isn't arguable. MaleShep couldn't even get with a guy in the third game. We've only had 1 gay male central character and Cortez's writer admitted that one of the major priorities with Steve was making sure he didn't "ninjamance" the male player. When you're writing a gay romance, straight people shouldn't be anywhere in the main priorities. I'm sorry. As for bi men, We've only had 1 bi male squadmate over the course of the whole trilogy and he only realized he was bi in the last game. Now, look, it's totally fine (and even great) to have characters like that since so many people initially think they're straight only to realize they're not. However, in the context of having very little LGBT male characters, it stands out as them not initially being able to have m/m and only recently realizing they need some kind of bi guy for MaleShep. Was straight FemShep shafted? Yes, she was. Half of the options ended up getting a bad end in ME3, and, in Jacob's case, you couldn't even start a new romance, from what I've heard. However, you guys had at least one squadmate option every single game, which lesbian players and gay male players didn't have. Now, was lesbian FemShep shafted? I would argue yes. We did have one option full of content across the trilogy, which a Gay MaleShep and some straight FemSheps didn't have. However, if you're not into Liara, the other ones don't have nearly as much content. Samara's not even an option if you don't have the Citadel DLC because there's no culmination to her romance otherwise, and she pretty much rejects Shepard in ME2. Samantha Traynor and Kelly Chambers are both NPCs, neither of which having as much content since they're not squadmates and haven't been in every game. Furthermore, Kelly Chambers didn't even get an appearance in the Citadel DLC, one of the only romance options not to get more content in said DLC. And I'm not going to comment on how male gazey Traynor's romance was, since some people aren't really going to "get it" no matter how many times I explain. And, for bi female characters, the only bi women we've had on the squad were asari. No bi female human squadmates or really any other bi alien women as squadmates. So, yes, it's not debatable. We've been shafted unless you prefer playing a Straight MaleShep, and I hope this trend doesn't continue. Well all I hope is that straight people don't shafted in retaliation for this game What are you even talking about? Do not make me laugh, people are freaking out about romancing pixeis with their non-straight Ryder because the industry in a whole lacks representation and this feels a lot like bread crumbs. Arg... I dislike this whole concept. I am just going to ignore the romance topic till the early access. My favorite thing was always speculating about romances and the companions, now it just feel like a whole ball of frustration.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 19, 2017 0:56:37 GMT
Jaal being romanceable by both genders doesn't mean that he has to feel sexual attraction for both characters. He could still only be into girls and have a platonic romance with Scott... I don't see how it's unreasonable, sorry. I would be less worried, if there was at least partial nudity with Scott... I apologize. I though platonic meant "friends," until a quick Google search proved me wrong. Ah well, it still doesn't make sense. I don't really see how he can feel sexual feeling for one, but not for the other. Unless his asexuality was targeted at males for some odd reason (and as if the ME team would even think about stuff like this), I highly doubt this is the case. Perhaps he'll show preference and flirts to a player using Sara, rather than Scott, as most of Bioware's bisexual characters act (ex. Iron Bull and Zevran). You're treating this leak as if this is the word of god. Wasn't it a second hand account, as in, the leaker got a few scraps of info from a friend? The leak mentions very little, as we don't even know if he's fully romanceable by either gender of just a fling. Not to mention that it's a leak. Not officially released by Bioware, not a video release, or an info dump, but a second-hand leak. You can take note of it of course, but unless officially released, or leaked by someone extremely credible (ex. Shinobi), all leaks are false until proven true. I don't know...hasn't Bioware said they wanted to include more different kinds of romance options? I thought they said something about platonic love... but maybe I confuse something. I just hope if there's an asexual romance option it's not gender based. That would be stupid, yes.
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Post by gaycaravaggio on Feb 19, 2017 0:57:30 GMT
Well, in general, I hope that gay romances get more content this time around.
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Post by Rynnju on Feb 19, 2017 0:59:19 GMT
I apologize. I though platonic meant "friends," until a quick Google search proved me wrong. Ah well, it still doesn't make sense. I don't really see how he can feel sexual feeling for one, but not for the other. Unless his asexuality was targeted at males for some odd reason (and as if the ME team would even think about stuff like this), I highly doubt this is the case. Perhaps he'll show preference and flirts to a player using Sara, rather than Scott, as most of Bioware's bisexual characters act (ex. Iron Bull and Zevran). You're treating this leak as if this is the word of god. Wasn't it a second hand account, as in, the leaker got a few scraps of info from a friend? The leak mentions very little, as we don't even know if he's fully romanceable by either gender of just a fling. Not to mention that it's a leak. Not officially released by Bioware, not a video release, or an info dump, but a second-hand leak. You can take note of it of course, but unless officially released, or leaked by someone extremely credible (ex. Shinobi), all leaks are false until proven true. I don't know...hasn't Bioware said they wanted to include more different kinds of romance options? I thought they said something about platonic love... but maybe I confuse something. I just hope if there's an asexual romance option it's not gender based. That would be stupid, yes. I really, REALLY cannot imagine there being that big a difference between a male and female romance with a bisexual character. One, that would get backlash no doubt. Two, it wastes unnecessary time and resources to essentially write two versions of a romance. I don't picture them ever doing that. If there's an asexual option, they'll likely be an asexual option no matter what.
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Post by smilesja on Feb 19, 2017 1:02:20 GMT
Well all I hope is that straight people don't shafted in retaliation for this game What are you even talking about? Do not make me laugh, people are freaking out about romancing pixeis with their non-straight Ryder because the industry in a whole lacks representation and this feels a lot like bread crumbs. Arg... I dislike this whole concept. I am just going to ignore the romance topic till the early access. My favorite thing was always speculating about romances and the companions, now it just feel like a whole ball of frustration. I'm not freaking out I'm just expressing a little concern that's all
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PhatePhoenix
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I talk too much.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion
Origin: Phate_Phoenix13
PSN: Phate_Phoenix
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Post by PhatePhoenix on Feb 19, 2017 1:11:32 GMT
I apologize. I though platonic meant "friends," until a quick Google search proved me wrong. Ah well, it still doesn't make sense. I don't really see how he can feel sexual feeling for one, but not for the other. Unless his asexuality was targeted at males for some odd reason (and as if the ME team would even think about stuff like this), I highly doubt this is the case. Perhaps he'll show preference and flirts to a player using Sara, rather than Scott, as most of Bioware's bisexual characters act (ex. Iron Bull and Zevran). You're treating this leak as if this is the word of god. Wasn't it a second hand account, as in, the leaker got a few scraps of info from a friend? The leak mentions very little, as we don't even know if he's fully romanceable by either gender of just a fling. Not to mention that it's a leak. Not officially released by Bioware, not a video release, or an info dump, but a second-hand leak. You can take note of it of course, but unless officially released, or leaked by someone extremely credible (ex. Shinobi), all leaks are false until proven true. I don't know...hasn't Bioware said they wanted to include more different kinds of romance options? I thought they said something about platonic love... but maybe I confuse something. I just hope if there's an asexual romance option it's not gender based. That would be stupid, yes. If there's going to be a nonsexual option, it'll likely be more akin to Josephine or Solas from DAI, where it's up to interpretation ( unless Bioware blesses me). What's probably happened with Jaal is that both Rydude and Rydette have the same framing in the scene, and both are naked. However, it's only chest up, to avoid showing any Angara naughty bits. Rydette's got boobs, so, her scene is more explicit.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 19, 2017 1:15:20 GMT
I don't know...hasn't Bioware said they wanted to include more different kinds of romance options? I thought they said something about platonic love... but maybe I confuse something. I just hope if there's an asexual romance option it's not gender based. That would be stupid, yes. If there's going to be a nonsexual option, it'll likely be more akin to Josephine or Solas from DAI, where it's up to interpretation ( unless Bioware blesses me). What's probably happened with Jaal is that both Rydude and Rydette have the same framing in the scene, and both are naked. However, it's only chest up, to avoid showing any Angara naughty bits. Rydette's got boobs, so, her scene is more explicit. I don't say the leak is true...but according to it, there's no nudity at all, also no partial nudity (no topless Scott). The person who claimed it only spoke about partial nudity with topless Scott in a human based romance scene.
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PhatePhoenix
N3
I talk too much.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion
Origin: Phate_Phoenix13
PSN: Phate_Phoenix
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Post by PhatePhoenix on Feb 19, 2017 1:30:08 GMT
If there's going to be a nonsexual option, it'll likely be more akin to Josephine or Solas from DAI, where it's up to interpretation ( unless Bioware blesses me). What's probably happened with Jaal is that both Rydude and Rydette have the same framing in the scene, and both are naked. However, it's only chest up, to avoid showing any Angara naughty bits. Rydette's got boobs, so, her scene is more explicit. I don't say the leak is true...but according to it, there's no nudity at all, also no partial nudity (no topless Scott). The person who claimed it only spoke about partial nudity with topless Scott in a human based romance scene. Actually, the dude who brought in the Jaal leak said that Rydude could be shirtless, while Rydette would have boobs and butts. SOURCE
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Feb 19, 2017 1:38:47 GMT
I don't know...hasn't Bioware said they wanted to include more different kinds of romance options? I thought they said something about platonic love... but maybe I confuse something. I just hope if there's an asexual romance option it's not gender based. That would be stupid, yes. If there's going to be a nonsexual option, it'll likely be more akin to Josephine or Solas from DAI, where it's up to interpretation ( unless Bioware blesses me). What's probably happened with Jaal is that both Rydude and Rydette have the same framing in the scene, and both are naked. However, it's only chest up, to avoid showing any Angara naughty bits. Rydette's got boobs, so, her scene is more explicit. Yeah, I suspect the romances will be one of two things. 1) Sex is obviously involved. The scene may have nudity or fade to black, but between dialogue and other factors it is made clear that sex occurred. 2) Sex is ambiguous. There will be no actual sex scene or even dialogue that hints at it having occurred, leaving it open to interpretation.
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Post by Kaidan Alenko on Feb 19, 2017 2:01:38 GMT
They did confirm that they are not going to reveal the sexuality of the characters right? That they want us to discover them on our own?
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Post by Catilina on Feb 19, 2017 2:13:16 GMT
They did confirm that they are not going to reveal the sexuality of the characters right? That they want us to discover them on our own? I don't think so. What if a gay / bi LI shows the affection toward the straight broRyder! Probably would much whining, how uncomfortable feeling! But this is an interesting idea, I would like it. we will see.
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Post by Kaidan Alenko on Feb 19, 2017 2:20:23 GMT
They did confirm that they are not going to reveal the sexuality of the characters right? That they want us to discover them on our own? I don't think so. What if a gay / bi LI shows the affection toward the straight broRyder! Probably would much whining, how uncomfortable feeling! No no, I mean if Bioware is going to tell us "Liam and Cora are straight, Peeebee is bisexual", etc. I don't want to create a male Ryder who has a turian fetish, and when I am going to romance Vetra I learn She is a lesbian, I would have to restart the whole game and rethink how my character will be, a lot of people had the same problem with Sera and Dorian, you don't learn their sexuality after their personal quest (if you ignore the clues), so you spent 20 hours in the game just to know your would-be LI doesn't fancy your thing.
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Post by gaycaravaggio on Feb 19, 2017 2:21:31 GMT
Honestly my ideal would be: 6 squadmates with 2 being straight, 2 being bi, and 2 being gay. All of them being plot relevant and important characters with a lot of content. Then, the extra NPC love interests could be flings and have less content.
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Post by Petroshenko on Feb 19, 2017 4:47:41 GMT
Lol the last few pages, ya'll really using the word "leak" liberally these days ain't ya?
Here's what a leak looks like. A guy in mid 2011 leaks Javik's name before anyone knows it and a screen of bugged Diana Allers' model and confirms some romances along with. And even he, who obviously had access to the game, got things wrong cause he said Ashley was bi when she clearly wasn't lol.
Meanwhile, random tumblr posts or personal speculation based on super vague descriptions of romance scenes are called "leaks" now...
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Kaidan Alenko
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Post by Kaidan Alenko on Feb 19, 2017 6:04:06 GMT
Honestly my ideal would be: 6 squadmates with 2 being straight, 2 being bi, and 2 being gay. All of them being plot relevant and important characters with a lot of content. Then, the extra NPC love interests could be flings and have less content. Even though it probably is what will happen, that diversity feels way to forced. We would have 1 straight male, 1 straight female, 2 bisexuals, 1 gay and 1 lesbian. Is like when they were recruiting people for Andromeda they said "We need diversity, so if we have more than 2 straights in the team, stop recruiting straight people, it doesn't matter if they are better qualified than a bisexual/gay/lesbian, we need diversity"
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Post by gaycaravaggio on Feb 19, 2017 6:09:47 GMT
Honestly my ideal would be: 6 squadmates with 2 being straight, 2 being bi, and 2 being gay. All of them being plot relevant and important characters with a lot of content. Then, the extra NPC love interests could be flings and have less content. Even though it probably is what will happen, that diversity feels way to forced. We would have 1 straight male, 1 straight female, 2 bisexuals, 1 gay and 1 lesbian. Is like when they were recruiting people for Andromeda they said "We need diversity, so if we have more than 2 straights in the team, stop recruiting straight people, it doesn't matter if they are better qualified than a bisexual/gay/lesbian, we need diversity" Nah, the Mass Effect team wouldn't do it this way, in my opinion. It's just what I would personally like. And this is sci-fi escapism, so it's not "realism" that's holding them back on this. In my personal experience (AKA offline), I tend to gravitate to other LGBT people subconsciously, even before I know they're LGBT. So it's conceivable for me that I could end up in a situation where I'm working with at least a few other LGBT people, since that's happened with me before with classes and clubs.
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Post by Kaidan Alenko on Feb 19, 2017 6:17:01 GMT
Even though it probably is what will happen, that diversity feels way to forced. We would have 1 straight male, 1 straight female, 2 bisexuals, 1 gay and 1 lesbian. Is like when they were recruiting people for Andromeda they said "We need diversity, so if we have more than 2 straights in the team, stop recruiting straight people, it doesn't matter if they are better qualified than a bisexual/gay/lesbian, we need diversity" Nah, the Mass Effect team wouldn't do it this way, in my opinion. It's just what I would personally like. And this is sci-fi escapism, so it's not "realism" that's holding them back on this. Isn't the reason of why they don't make everyone bisexual so we all are happy and we can think "Our LI loves our character for how s/he is and not for his/her genitalia" that "is not realistic for everyone to be bisexual"? Everyone keep saying that being straight, gay or lesbian makes you special, I don't see how exactly it makes Dorian a better character if he is gay or bisexual, the whole "dady issues cuz i'm gay" was unnecesary, to his character and to the game, it could be easily solved by a "I don't want to marry someone I don't love". Ahhh how beautiful was Dragon Age 2 were everyone loved Hawke for being Hawke and not for being a woman/man, except Sebastian but he isn't even a good romance. I keep insisting, all the aliens in the game should be bisexual about humans, almost all of them say that women and men look alike, and sex is already weird between an alien-human.
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Post by vertigomez on Feb 19, 2017 6:18:33 GMT
Honestly my ideal would be: 6 squadmates with 2 being straight, 2 being bi, and 2 being gay. All of them being plot relevant and important characters with a lot of content. Then, the extra NPC love interests could be flings and have less content. Even though it probably is what will happen, that diversity feels way to forced. We would have 1 straight male, 1 straight female, 2 bisexuals, 1 gay and 1 lesbian. Is like when they were recruiting people for Andromeda they said "We need diversity, so if we have more than 2 straights in the team, stop recruiting straight people, it doesn't matter if they are better qualified than a bisexual/gay/lesbian, we need diversity" That's A-OK with me. I'd rather have this than have 90% straight LIs because "realism!!1" or have a crapton of gratuitous T&A because more hetero men play ME than women or people of other sexualities. Bioware's been making an effort to show that they care about more than one demographic. Why would it feel forced unless you go around in-game quizzing people about their sexual orientation? Unless you're romancing them or they make an off-hand remark about finding someone attractive, Ryder's not going to know those details about every single squadmate and NPC.
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Post by Kaidan Alenko on Feb 19, 2017 6:27:44 GMT
That's A-OK with me. I'd rather have this than have 90% straight LIs because "realism!!1" or have a crapton of gratuitous T&A because more hetero men play ME than women or people of other sexualities. Bioware's been making an effort to show that they care about more than one demographic. Why would it feel forced unless you go around in-game quizzing people about their sexual orientation? Unless you're romancing them or they make an off-hand remark about finding someone attractive, Ryder's not going to know those details about every single squadmate and NPC.Unless they jump at you when you first met them saying how sexy that female robot voice is. Seriously though, is not a problem if they force diversity, but that "diversity" is still not helping. The same diversity was in Dragon age Inquisition, and look how it ended? A lot of male straight players were angry because Sera was only lesbian, so they had no elf romance, also just 2 straight romance for men while women had 4 was unfair. A lot of female players complained because Cassandra wasn't bisexual, same with Dorian, though most of them strangely took him as "gay friend", which is sad that they see the character as "the gay bro you can talk about how hot Cullen is" I still can't get over about how Cullen isn't bisexual and my Inquisitor has to either steal Bull/Dorian boyfriend or romance no one. Those are a lot of complains compared to the DA:2 complain "Boo hoo everyone loves me, life sucks!"
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Post by Dirk on Feb 19, 2017 6:35:53 GMT
Ah the realism argument against lgbt representation, we have dismissed that claim. There are so many things that are unrealistic in ME games, but the existence of lgbt people beyond the status quo somehow feels forced.
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Post by Kaidan Alenko on Feb 19, 2017 6:47:46 GMT
Ah the realism argument against lgbt representation, we have dismissed that claim. There are so many things that are unrealistic in ME games, but the existence of lgbt people beyond the status quo somehow feels forced. So... We are going to use the realism as an excuse when it suits us, are we going to accept the realism, or deny it completely? I want to know, because if we won't have realism then I don't want people saying "I hate how Scott and Sara are models, they should be ugly, same with Miranda, you can't fight and be hot, I'm glad Cora isn't a bimbo because is not realistic a hot soldier"
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Post by gaycaravaggio on Feb 19, 2017 6:59:28 GMT
Ah the realism argument against lgbt representation, we have dismissed that claim. There are so many things that are unrealistic in ME games, but the existence of lgbt people beyond the status quo somehow feels forced. So... We are going to use the realism as an excuse when it suits us, are we going to accept the realism, or deny it completely? I want to know, because if we won't have realism then I don't want people saying "I hate how Scott and Sara are models, they should be ugly, same with Miranda, you can't fight and be hot, I'm glad Cora isn't a bimbo because is not realistic a hot soldier" Honestly? I don't have much of an issue with them being based on models. I would like a variety of appearance-types and attractive levels though, for variety. -shrug-
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Post by Dirk on Feb 19, 2017 7:14:35 GMT
Ah the realism argument against lgbt representation, we have dismissed that claim. There are so many things that are unrealistic in ME games, but the existence of lgbt people beyond the status quo somehow feels forced. So... We are going to use the realism as an excuse when it suits us, are we going to accept the realism, or deny it completely? I want to know, because if we won't have realism then I don't want people saying "I hate how Scott and Sara are models, they should be ugly, same with Miranda, you can't fight and be hot, I'm glad Cora isn't a bimbo because is not realistic a hot soldier" Well I don't know about "we," but you can count me out on hating that characters that look like models. In fact I love the current Scott's face (8/10 would bang). I don't really care how Miranda, Sara, and Cora look to be honest. There is a degree of realism that people come to expect. If one is going to only accept absolute realism, they should just simply stop playing video games. Video games will always have some degree of being unrealistic. Each person will surely have different ideas of how much realism has to be compromised. In the case of ME and lgbt representation, I think that having 4 out of 6 squat mates being lgbt is statistically improbable but possible, while traveling above speed of light is just impossible. So it makes sense for me that if I am going to be okay with FTL travelling in ME, I should not have any problems with lgbt representation beyond the status quo, at least in terms of realism arguments. I generally don't care about realism much unless the game is aiming to be so. What is more important to me is that the game is believable in a sense that, according to the game universe setting, whatever happens in the game is possible. Unless there is a lore reason why it is impossible to have more lgbt people in a squad, I am okay with it. Edit: grammar
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Post by vertigomez on Feb 19, 2017 7:23:51 GMT
That's A-OK with me. I'd rather have this than have 90% straight LIs because "realism!!1" or have a crapton of gratuitous T&A because more hetero men play ME than women or people of other sexualities. Bioware's been making an effort to show that they care about more than one demographic. Why would it feel forced unless you go around in-game quizzing people about their sexual orientation? Unless you're romancing them or they make an off-hand remark about finding someone attractive, Ryder's not going to know those details about every single squadmate and NPC.Unless they jump at you when you first met them saying how sexy that female robot voice is. Seriously though, is not a problem if they force diversity, but that "diversity" is still not helping. The same diversity was in Dragon age Inquisition, and look how it ended? A lot of male straight players were angry because Sera was only lesbian, so they had no elf romance, also just 2 straight romance for men while women had 4 was unfair. A lot of female players complained because Cassandra wasn't bisexual, same with Dorian, though most of them strangely took him as "gay friend", which is sad that they see the character as "the gay bro you can talk about how hot Cullen is" I still can't get over about how Cullen isn't bisexual and my Inquisitor has to either steal Bull/Dorian boyfriend or romance no one. Those are a lot of complains compared to the DA:2 complain "Boo hoo everyone loves me, life sucks!" I'm not arguing for or against all-bi LIs. I'm fine either way. I just object to the idea that having 2 straight/2 bi/2 gay feels more forced than having 4 bi LIs. They both have their merits and disadvantages. I'm fine if the squaddies on our team happen to all be bi; it's not that unusual for four bisexuals to hang out with each other, after all. But I was also fine with DAI's spectrum. But most of all I think it's important to show that people who are exclusively attracted to the same sex exist and are valid characters, even if our squadmates happen to be a bunch of bisexual people. Just... ya know, an NPC talking about her wife or a gay alien making moon eyes at one of the male explorers. Basically, I'm fine with DAI's system or DA2's system for LIs because everybody gets some kind of choice, there. The ONLY thing I object to is "gay if you're a male PC, straight if you're a female PC" method. Make them explicitly bisexual if you're going to go that route. But it's worth noting that the devs said that because of modeling issues (four races, two genders each) if they'd gone all-bi for DAI, there would have been no more than 4 LIs available. It's not like we'd get a big bi buffet.
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Post by davkar on Feb 19, 2017 7:48:08 GMT
Ugh, so many pages in one night. Good thing there aren't actual leaks so far because it would be difficult to find them here. The 'perfect' DA2 system is the laziest, most unimaginative approach. Sure 'everyone' is 'happy', but these so called 'bi' romances are still just gay and straight options determined by Hawke's gender and yet they are both and neither at the same time. Both genders get the same (97%) lines, the same scenes. But where are the characters, the arcs, the goals? Romance doesn't matter with these characters. Regardless of your choices Anders is always a mass murdering abomination, Fenris is always brooding and boring, Merril is always a dumb bloodmage and Isabela... well maybe she is the only one, but she's just blatantly banging everyone and everything.
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