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Post by naytnavare on Feb 1, 2017 19:25:58 GMT
I'll just leave these here:  (Note that you can also sleep with Sha'ira. Not a romance, necessarily, but... let's call it an extra RP opportunity for straight M/lesbian players specifically.)  (Note they left out the Samara mini-romance from ME2 that gets acknowledged in the Citadel DLC.) I left out ME2, because I couldn't find a graphic for it, but here's the breakdown: Straight MShep: Tali, Miranda, Jack, Kelly, Liara (if you have the Shadow Broker DLC it does get acknowledged), Samara/Morinth (mini-romance, but still an option). Straight FShep: Jacob, Garrus, Thane Gay MShep: ... Lesbian FShep: Kelly, Liara (see above), Samara or Morinth (see above) Anyway, I'm not trying to feed into some tit-for-tat pissing contest here, but... it's hard not to see a disparity, and why it often does get pointed out that a straight male Shepard wins here in the sheer quantity of options he gets, be they more established romances or more fling-y ones. And why I tend to scratch my head at the notion that Mass Effect did this great job by giving all these varied options semi-equally across the board. Because they really kinda... didn't. And I understand that even with this plethora of choices, some people just aren't going to get what they want even then. But the chances certainly improve when there's more to pick from. I'm optimistic that for Andromeda we'll see a push for more balance in this regard. That's all we're asking for. Not for straight males to get 'punished' as they seem to sometimes think. Also, people call out DAI as the one example where straight females got more. Yes, this is true, and I can't say I'm sorry I got to benefit from that. But remember that Cullen and Solas (the generally more popular ones) got added later only because of added development time. Otherwise we would've gotten Iron Bull and Blackwall - which is arguably an even more unconventional, potentially unsatisfying choice, than Cass and Josie. For me, I would have zero interest in Blackwall, and Iron Bull would've been the 'I guess this is okay, at least he's fun' choice. And there's the fact that in Dragon Age and Mass Effect, your chances for a happy ending with your romance of choice rises quite a bit if you choose to romance a woman, rather than a man. Oh, hundred percent, straight female Shepard had it ROUGH as of ME3. She should have gotten a Joker or James romance, at least. My mere point was, I feel where some worry about DAI, as it was 'take this aggressive and hardened version of a pre-existing character or don't get a companion romance,' whereas a straight female could potentially have Bull, Solas or Blackwall. .... which makes me think DAI had some of the worst romance options in a BW game, yet. |
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Post by naytnavare on Feb 1, 2017 19:28:54 GMT
On one hand, I feel for those who have yet to have that perfect romance in a Bioware game. On the other hand, DAI was probably the worst for male characters in BW games for a while, second only to male Force users in any Star Wars game (and KOTOR II), as it's always ' YOU ARE TEH MALE FORCE USER, HERE IS YOUR FEMALE STUDENT LOVE INTEREST!' Looking at you, Kira, Jaesa, Nadia, Ashara, Brianna, and even to a point, Lana and Bastila. I digress. Point being, I can understand, after DAI, where some male or male-toon gamers may feel a bit nervous at the breadth of their prospects. Either way, it is impossible to pander to 'all tastes' in a fandom, especially with all the silly titles folks give themselves now ('silly' being used in general context based on personal opinion on fine-pointing sexual identity). In all honesty, I think the Mass Effect trilogy, over the course of three games and including all characters Bioware employees have considered romances, did damned fine work; Three heterosexual human females. (Miranda, Jack, Ashley) One bisexual human male. (Kaidan) One heterosexual Turian male. (Garrus) One heterosexual Quarian female. (Tali) Two bisexual Asari females. (Liara, Samara) One lesbian human female. (Samantha) One homosexual human male. (Steve) One heterosexual human male. (Jacob) Two bisexual human females. (Diana, Kelly) One heterosexual Drell male. (Thane) Five flirty/fling options. (James, Javik, Consort, Gianna, Shiala) Based on game context alone, cases could be made that Garrus and Kelly do not include intercourse, and can be argued as asexual romance, per player view, in my opinion. As such, I genuinely believe we will all (without the finest of 'groups') find a few options or so in the game. It is my hope that everyone finds someone that trips their trigger, so long as I get a BroRyder and PeeBee arc.  I hope so too! The inverse of the SW universe was that a Female Character never got to romance a Force-User male. All those dashing jedi Knights and dangerous Sith lords? Nah, they are obviously of no interest to females at large. How could a girl possibly fathom to fall for a guy with a lightsabre? Inconceivable! One may blame the code on the Jedi's Order-wide indifference to the female beauty (unless it was the male protagonist!) but, apparently, Korriban Academy Graduates felt that if there is one passion to be left unexplored in their pursuit of power, it's sexual attraction to women. Unanimously and resolutely, all the male Force users of the Old Republic, in an unprecedented agreement between the Sith and Jedi Order, elected to ignore the drop-dead gorgeous PCs. It must have been the hair. Right? Look, give them gals a saberguy. Or gay saberguys for guys. I love me some Theron, but if I ever made a gay toon, options would be great. But never Koth. Never. Ever. Koth. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2017 19:34:04 GMT
I hope so too! The inverse of the SW universe was that a Female Character never got to romance a Force-User male. All those dashing jedi Knights and dangerous Sith lords? Nah, they are obviously of no interest to females at large. How could a girl possibly fathom to fall for a guy with a lightsabre? Inconceivable! One may blame the code on the Jedi's Order-wide indifference to the female beauty (unless it was the male protagonist!) but, apparently, Korriban Academy Graduates felt that if there is one passion to be left unexplored in their pursuit of power, it's sexual attraction to women. Unanimously and resolutely, all the male Force users of the Old Republic, in an unprecedented agreement between the Sith and Jedi Order, elected to ignore the drop-dead gorgeous PCs. It must have been the hair. Right? Look, give them gals a saberguy. Or gay saberguys for guys. I love me some Theron, but if I ever made a gay toon, options would be great. But never Koth. Never. Ever. Koth. oh, the gay guys actually get a Sith Lord as a lover with a great subplot. It's Lord Cytherat on Makeb. But SWTOR breaks the long-standing, budget-saving tradition of the Gals&Gays Option trailblazing the non-compromising approach to: "Kiss a girl?!Force Forbid!" The females get one single Flirt option in the whole game (!) to suggest a dinner to one of the FP antagonists, and, of course, be rejected. 'Cause Male Jedi and Sith don't like women that way. Ever. The entire epic canvas of SWTOR, the story of unparalleled complexity, 40 joinable companions (along with a dozen of 'latecomers'), 4 years running, 3 expansions (that I've played) later, hundreds of quest NPCs, and... not one male Sith or Jedi LI for a female PC of any profession. |
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Post by GannayevOfDreams on Feb 1, 2017 19:36:47 GMT
I'm just now learning Diana Allers was a romance option. I kind of avoided her completely in ME3. Can't imagine there was much depth to that romance.
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Post by Cannibal on Feb 1, 2017 19:45:50 GMT
I'm just now learning Diana Allers was a romance option. I kind of avoided her completely in ME3. Can't imagine there was much depth to that romance. There wasn't, less than Kelly in mass effect 2. It also ends your current relationship so it's pretty pointless. I like how the graphic posted earlier has that but doesn't have james/javik for straight females. Even those were one night things, still more content than Diane. |
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Post by naytnavare on Feb 1, 2017 19:48:24 GMT
Right? Look, give them gals a saberguy. Or gay saberguys for guys. I love me some Theron, but if I ever made a gay toon, options would be great. But never Koth. Never. Ever. Koth. oh, the gay guys actually get a Sith Lord as a lover with a great subplot. It's Lord Cytherat on Makeb. But SWTOR breaks the long-standing, budget-saving tradition of the Gals&Gays Option trailblazing the non-compromising approach to: "Kiss a girl?!Force Forbid!" The females get one single Flirt option in the whole game (!) to suggest a dinner to one of the FP antagonists, and, of course, be rejected. 'Cause Male Jedi and Sith don't like women that way. Ever. The entire epic canvas of SWTOR, the story of unparalleled complexity, 40 joinable companions (along with a dozen of 'latecomers'), 4 years running, 3 expansions (that I've played) later, hundreds of quest NPCs, and... not one male Sith or Jedi LI for a female PC of any profession. I forgot all about the Makeb dude... and even Makeb sucked for atraight female toons. They got squat, if I recall, as Cytherat was gay male only, and the pubside scientist girl was bisexual. .... I feel like there are more and better constructed gay/lesbian LIs as a whole, than ones for straight females, at this point. No offense to anyone, but from a statistical standpoint, that makes no sense. |
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Post by fialka on Feb 1, 2017 19:57:53 GMT
I'm just now learning Diana Allers was a romance option. I kind of avoided her completely in ME3. Can't imagine there was much depth to that romance. There wasn't, less than Kelly in mass effect 2. It also ends your current relationship so it's pretty pointless. I like how the graphic posted earlier has that but doesn't have james/javik for straight females. Even those were one night things, still more content than Diane. You sleep with James only after plying him with so many drinks he stops turning you down. It's creepy dub-con shit - can you imagine if the genders were reversed? And you wake up next to Javik with zero input from the player - there's no flirty dialogue or romantic scene or anything to it. It just happens. You could even argue that Javik is just trolling Shepard and she goes along with it, and that they never actually hooked up. I fail to see how that constitutes romance? Sure Diane is a one time thing, but at least there's some flirty dialogue and it's consensual. It's a fling, sure, but there's nothing comparable for a gay male or straight female player. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2017 20:31:48 GMT
I agree that Allers shouldn't have been included on that graphic because she wasn't a true romance. Her 'romance' didn't unlock the paramour achievement and shouldn't have been counted any more than Gianna. By going with the paramour achievement, it's still skewed for straight guys and lesbians but it avoids the whole Samara, Diana, Javik, James fling situation.
Similarly, Lord Cytharat doesn't count as a true romance for SWTOR because you don't get the 'you are about to begin a romance' notice with him. It's just a series of flirty dialogue.
Bioware has a system to indicate whether a romance is a true romance or not and everything is easier if we use that as the deciding factor as to what counts/doesn't count.
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Post by ames4u on Feb 1, 2017 20:32:38 GMT
But will there be nudity between Jaal and Sara? Because that would be really unfair... Yup, the same goes for PeeBee and Scott romance, Sara will have more nudity in her sex scenes  Sara scenes will include some boobs, some naked ass and Scott will be shirtless at most, but like I said there could be more romances with the crew where it will be different. That is incredibly unfair if it proves true.  At best they would show naked man booty with a conveniently placed decorative item in the foreground during the frontal shot.
But if it's cold turkey shirtless action while Sara gets the fully nude treatment, there will be a few questions to ask. Namely why?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2017 20:37:37 GMT
Yup, the same goes for PeeBee and Scott romance, Sara will have more nudity in her sex scenes Sara scenes will include some boobs, some naked ass and Scott will be shirtless at most, but like I said there could be more romances with the crew where it will be different. That is incredibly unfair if it proves true. At best they would show naked man booty with a conveniently placed decorative item in the foreground during the frontal shot.
But if it's cold turkey shirtless action while Sara gets the fully nude treatment, there will be a few questions to ask. Namely why?
There is nudity from Scott in the Pee Bee sex scene. There is no nudity from Scott when he is with the unidentified human male, I don't know for sure beyond that, but I can say with certainty that they did render Scott nude in at least one scene. |
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Post by Cannibal on Feb 1, 2017 21:06:58 GMT
I agree that Allers shouldn't have been included on that graphic because she wasn't a true romance. Her 'romance' didn't unlock the paramour achievement and shouldn't have been counted any more than Gianna. By going with the paramour achievement, it's still skewed for straight guys and lesbians but it avoids the whole Samara, Diana, Javik, James fling situation. Similarly, Lord Cytharat doesn't count as a true romance for SWTOR because you don't get the 'you are about to begin a romance' notice with him. It's just a series of flirty dialogue. Bioware has a system to indicate whether a romance is a true romance or not and everything is easier if we use that as the deciding factor as to what counts/doesn't count. There "you are about to begin a romance" prompt only started with kotfe. Even though I wouldn't count Cytharat since there has been no indication that they plan on bringing him back and with the fallen empire time jump and his not so safe place within the sith empire, he's more than likely dead. |
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Post by Artemis on Feb 1, 2017 21:09:29 GMT
That is incredibly unfair if it proves true. At best they would show naked man booty with a conveniently placed decorative item in the foreground during the frontal shot.
But if it's cold turkey shirtless action while Sara gets the fully nude treatment, there will be a few questions to ask. Namely why?
There is nudity from Scott in the Pee Bee sex scene. There is no nudity from Scott when he is with the unidentified human male, I don't know for sure beyond that, but I can say with certainty that they did render Scott nude in at least one scene. Ya know, honestly, I could care less about sex, though I understand people being annoyed about that. But if Scott doesn't get to kiss his boyfriend as passionately as he does his girlfriend (like Cora in the latest trailer... that was very romantic!) I'm going to be really, really upset. That would just be unfair and total bullshit. Same goes for Sara and her girlfriend. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2017 21:18:39 GMT
I agree that Allers shouldn't have been included on that graphic because she wasn't a true romance. Her 'romance' didn't unlock the paramour achievement and shouldn't have been counted any more than Gianna. By going with the paramour achievement, it's still skewed for straight guys and lesbians but it avoids the whole Samara, Diana, Javik, James fling situation. Similarly, Lord Cytharat doesn't count as a true romance for SWTOR because you don't get the 'you are about to begin a romance' notice with him. It's just a series of flirty dialogue. Bioware has a system to indicate whether a romance is a true romance or not and everything is easier if we use that as the deciding factor as to what counts/doesn't count. Ah, but Lord Cytherat's romance was one of the best romantic experiences in SWTOR, because it was not just babbling about things, you've actually had an adventure together. And Thane's, despite not giving you a Paramour achievement, well, it was great, and also very much integrated into the ME2/ME3 story-line. His life & death literally unfold before your very eyes, as well as the entry into the afterlife together. No other BioWARE romance has ever implied a true bond between characters so directly, not even Elven DnD romances that they had despite the Bond being the lore thing there. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2017 21:20:32 GMT
I agree that Allers shouldn't have been included on that graphic because she wasn't a true romance. Her 'romance' didn't unlock the paramour achievement and shouldn't have been counted any more than Gianna. By going with the paramour achievement, it's still skewed for straight guys and lesbians but it avoids the whole Samara, Diana, Javik, James fling situation. Similarly, Lord Cytharat doesn't count as a true romance for SWTOR because you don't get the 'you are about to begin a romance' notice with him. It's just a series of flirty dialogue. Bioware has a system to indicate whether a romance is a true romance or not and everything is easier if we use that as the deciding factor as to what counts/doesn't count. Ah, but Lord Cytherat's romance was one of the best romantic experiences in SWTOR, because it was not just babbling about things, you've actually had an adventure together. And Thane's, despite not giving you a Paramour achievement, well, it was great, and also very much integrated into the ME2/ME3 story-line. His life & death literally unfold before your very eyes, as well as the entry into the afterlife together. No other BioWARE romance has ever implied a true bond between characters so directly, not even Elven DnD romances that they had despite the Bond being the lore thing there. What I found interesting about Thane, is even if you didn't have a relationship with him, Shep was special to him and they had a connection that still ran deep. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2017 21:23:07 GMT
Ah, but Lord Cytherat's romance was one of the best romantic experiences in SWTOR, because it was not just babbling about things, you've actually had an adventure together. And Thane's, despite not giving you a Paramour achievement, well, it was great, and also very much integrated into the ME2/ME3 story-line. His life & death literally unfold before your very eyes, as well as the entry into the afterlife together. No other BioWARE romance has ever implied a true bond between characters so directly, not even Elven DnD romances that they had despite the Bond being the lore thing there. What I found interesting about Thane, is even if you didn't have a relationship with him, Shep was special to him and they had a connection that still ran deep. Heh, if my M!Shepard gets that letter, it would be so odd. he already got to cup Thane's cheek to my surprise. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2017 21:25:07 GMT
What I found interesting about Thane, is even if you didn't have a relationship with him, Shep was special to him and they had a connection that still ran deep. Heh, if my M!Shepard gets that letter, it would be so odd. he already got to cup Thane's cheek to my surprise. There's cut dialogue of Thane with Male Shep. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2017 21:27:05 GMT
Heh, if my M!Shepard gets that letter, it would be so odd. he already got to cup Thane's cheek to my surprise. There's cut dialogue of Thane with Male Shep. Heh, good thing they cut it, for I would have never seen Jack/Liara's romance scenes otherwise. Heck, I will have to skip recruiting Thane to romance Garrus :) |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2017 21:28:47 GMT
There's cut dialogue of Thane with Male Shep. Heh, good thing they cut it, for I would have never seen Jack/Liara's romance scenes otherwise. Heck, I will have to skip recruiting Thane to romance Garrus  LOL and what makes it even more interesting is Thane wasn't bi. He was just trying something he had never done before. Male Shep would have been his first human and first male! |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2017 22:27:48 GMT
I'll just leave these here: (Note that you can also sleep with Sha'ira. Not a romance, necessarily, but... let's call it an extra RP opportunity for straight M/lesbian players specifically.) (Note they left out the Samara mini-romance from ME2 that gets acknowledged in the Citadel DLC.) I left out ME2, because I couldn't find a graphic for it, but here's the breakdown: Straight MShep: Tali, Miranda, Jack, Kelly, Liara (if you have the Shadow Broker DLC it does get acknowledged), Samara/Morinth (mini-romance, but still an option). Straight FShep: Jacob, Garrus, Thane Gay MShep: ... Lesbian FShep: Kelly, Liara (see above), Samara or Morinth (see above) Anyway, I'm not trying to feed into some tit-for-tat pissing contest here, but... it's hard not to see a disparity, and why it often does get pointed out that a straight male Shepard wins here in the sheer quantity of options he gets, be they more established romances or more fling-y ones. And why I tend to scratch my head at the notion that Mass Effect did this great job by giving all these varied options semi-equally across the board. Because they really kinda... didn't. And I understand that even with this plethora of choices, some people just aren't going to get what they want even then. But the chances certainly improve when there's more to pick from. I'm optimistic that for Andromeda we'll see a push for more balance in this regard. That's all we're asking for. Not for straight males to get 'punished' as they seem to sometimes think. Also, people call out DAI as the one example where straight females got more. Yes, this is true, and I can't say I'm sorry I got to benefit from that. But remember that Cullen and Solas (the generally more popular ones) got added later only because of added development time. Otherwise we would've gotten Iron Bull and Blackwall - which is arguably an even more unconventional, potentially unsatisfying choice, than Cass and Josie. For me, I would have zero interest in Blackwall, and Iron Bull would've been the 'I guess this is okay, at least he's fun' choice. And there's the fact that in Dragon Age and Mass Effect, your chances for a happy ending with your romance of choice rises quite a bit if you choose to romance a woman, rather than a man. you is dropping some major truth bombs today  The desire to see an equal balance has been very strong I feel and very recurring among the fanbase for a looong time. There is such a sense of, "Oh why are the fans always complaining about the romances?", well, its mainly the fans that are getting the short straw time and time again, with only one portion of the fanbase actually getting the good deal. Which is why the comments the dev gave in the article really frustrate me. Such a narrow view of sexual orientation having an influence on this game worries me. Balance as an afterthought also worries me, cause we all know who is going to get the short straw again. Maybe it could be both, straight women and gay men, again. If that happens, then BioWare, and straight male players, should not be surprised or in protestation to when we make our valid complaints. There's only so far BioWare can ride the good rep from being an 'inclusive' developer. If they want to truly be accountable to being inclusive, then for heaven's sake please actually be inclusive. I fail to see how that constitutes romance? Sure Diane is a one time thing, but at least there's some flirty dialogue and it's consensual. It's a fling, sure, but there's nothing comparable for a gay male or straight female player. And personally I wouldn't want 'flings'. Funny, if I think about it I'm sure for 'inclusivity' purposes, gay males may end up getting more flings than actual meaningful and worthwhile romances just so the devs can claim 'balance'. LOL and what makes it even more interesting is Thane wasn't bi. He was just trying something he had never done before. Male Shep would have been his first human and first male! I'd have loved a MShepxThane romance  |
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Post by lightdrago3 on Feb 1, 2017 22:35:12 GMT
Can somebody go on twitter and ask for clarification about how sexuality of a character must "feel right"? I doubt that we'll get a response, but I'd like to see their reasoning as to why or how if they do respond, since sexuality has nothing to do with how a character can act at all.
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Post by commandercryptarch on Feb 1, 2017 23:14:48 GMT
The debates between fanboys are the main reason to go to the character forums. Didn't the Miranda fanboys end up getting the character forum closed for a few years on the old BSN? But off the topic of debates here, scrolling through I see a lot of talk about the Salarian pilot perhaps being an option of sorts. I didn't think Salarians entered romantic relationships? They only live for ~30 years and their processes are on overdrive, if Kallo was to fall in love with Ryder, he'd be out of love by morning, they just aren't wired for that sort of thing. All they care about is getting a good breeding contract so that their next generation is smarter than they are. ...and that is PRECISELY WHY a Kallo romance would be awesome! Because it would be a totally new experience that would defy the whole way his species works. |
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Post by Mihura on Feb 1, 2017 23:59:53 GMT
I'll just leave these here: (Note that you can also sleep with Sha'ira. Not a romance, necessarily, but... let's call it an extra RP opportunity for straight M/lesbian players specifically.) (Note they left out the Samara mini-romance from ME2 that gets acknowledged in the Citadel DLC.) I left out ME2, because I couldn't find a graphic for it, but here's the breakdown: Straight MShep: Tali, Miranda, Jack, Kelly, Liara (if you have the Shadow Broker DLC it does get acknowledged), Samara/Morinth (mini-romance, but still an option). Straight FShep: Jacob, Garrus, Thane Gay MShep: ... Lesbian FShep: Kelly, Liara (see above), Samara or Morinth (see above) Anyway, I'm not trying to feed into some tit-for-tat pissing contest here, but... it's hard not to see a disparity, and why it often does get pointed out that a straight male Shepard wins here in the sheer quantity of options he gets, be they more established romances or more fling-y ones. And why I tend to scratch my head at the notion that Mass Effect did this great job by giving all these varied options semi-equally across the board. Because they really kinda... didn't. And I understand that even with this plethora of choices, some people just aren't going to get what they want even then. But the chances certainly improve when there's more to pick from. I'm optimistic that for Andromeda we'll see a push for more balance in this regard. That's all we're asking for. Not for straight males to get 'punished' as they seem to sometimes think. Also, people call out DAI as the one example where straight females got more. Yes, this is true, and I can't say I'm sorry I got to benefit from that. But remember that Cullen and Solas (the generally more popular ones) got added later only because of added development time. Otherwise we would've gotten Iron Bull and Blackwall - which is arguably an even more unconventional, potentially unsatisfying choice, than Cass and Josie. For me, I would have zero interest in Blackwall, and Iron Bull would've been the 'I guess this is okay, at least he's fun' choice. And there's the fact that in Dragon Age and Mass Effect, your chances for a happy ending with your romance of choice rises quite a bit if you choose to romance a woman, rather than a man. I am actually happy gay guys got Dorian and Bull at least in DA:I and they were both companions, although it should be Cullen too but this is no way representative of anything. For example Kaidan and Garrus are both good romances overall and Garrus is on the base three games. Straight people got it better, in therms of romance and representation. If I want to make an argument on numbers and quality, gay guys on the other hand should be prioritize and lesbian after that because let us be sincere only Liara was a really good romance and she is a bi character, which means her romance was for straight guys too, that is why she gets a lot more lines and interaction with Shepard. And if I even go further lesbians got it really rough on DA:I with companions, Sera was not at all important and you could kick her at anytime, also she was extremely problematic and this is not even addressed in game. This is why I still think having all companions on the bi spectrum is a lot better(demi, asexual, pan, bi...) Bioware will never get to represent everyone, better to open up all LI companions. |
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Post by Artemis on Feb 2, 2017 0:16:50 GMT
Wait, what's this about "feels right"? Did an MEA dev make this comment recently?
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Post by PhatePhoenix on Feb 2, 2017 2:09:28 GMT
Wait, what's this about "feels right"? Did an MEA dev make this comment recently? I think that's in reference to sonethong Gaider once said during DAI? |
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Post by fialka on Feb 2, 2017 2:30:48 GMT
I am actually happy gay guys got Dorian and Bull at least in DA:I and they were both companions, although it should be Cullen too but this is no way representative of anything. For example Kaidan and Garrus are both good romances overall and Garrus is on the base three games. Straight people got it better, in therms of romance and representation. If I want to make an argument on numbers and quality, gay guys on the other hand should be prioritize and lesbian after that because let us be sincere only Liara was a really good romance and she is a bi character, which means her romance was for straight guys too, that is why she gets a lot more lines and interaction with Shepard. And if I even go further lesbians got it really rough on DA:I with companions, Sera was not at all important and you could kick her at anytime, also she was extremely problematic and this is not even addressed in game. This is why I still think having all companions on the bi spectrum is a lot better(demi, asexual, pan, bi...) Bioware will never get to represente everyone, better to open up all LI companions for all Oh, I agree the s/s romances are the most lacking in the trilogy. Sure, lesbians got the second most options in the trilogy after straight guys, but... as you say, other than Liara they're all flings, mini-romances, or non-squadmates you only get for one game. And in some cases the decision to not make a female character an s/s option made little sense (as with Jack 'I've slept with women before but I don't swing that way' and Tali 'let's link suits... someday but not today.') That's why I made an emphasis on balance. Not necessarily to where every group has the exact same number, but maybe the 'favored' group gets, like, one extra, versus twice as much as everyone else. And yeah, I'm talking actual full romances here. Ideally from our squad, but I think a major NPC with Cullen or Josephine levels of involvement and romance quality can count too. I would argue that Samantha Traynor and Steve Cortez come close - I felt like they were important for the team and had some great dialogue. I can't speak to their romances, but to me personally they made as much of an impact as characters as our actual squad mate James Vega did. If the flings or one-night stands (along the lines of Samara or Allers) are all over the board that doesn't matter as much, I don't think, and frankly I don't care if one group gets more of those. I only included them for completion sake. And because I think if, say, Vega's fans actually got a well done consensual scene instead of the 'yay for date rape!' one in the Citadel DLC, they would have appreciated it. Not as much as a full romance, but still. What they did get sucked - like, what the fuck, Bioware, seriously. Take away the little flings like that, and the ratios don't really change much anyway, except to make it more obvious that lesbian players got shafted pretty bad too. So again, I won't advocate for anyone getting punished with less or being 'owed' more for whatever reason. I'd just like to see less of these giant disparities. Although I admit I was thrilled that Solas and Cullen were extra options in DAI for selfish reasons, I did feel that they should've made either Cullen or Solas bi. And maybe expanded Harding's flirtation into a full developed romance for both genders to even the scales a bit. Perhaps using those resources they could've saved by losing some of those fetch quests everyone hated so much and shrinking those big empty maps a bit...? Just a thought.  |
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