The Character Romance thread (Official)

This is fair criticism, and I completely understand. Is it a big problem for me personally? Eh, it's a bit of a turn off but if it gives me more content, yay, make all the previously straight-seeming men gay so I can have more content, yay! But, in the end, it does reek of forced inclusivity and pandering rather than character development to make a character that was previously very open about their love for the opposite sex suddenly become a romance option for the same sex. It kind of weirds me out.

Though I would like to correct that Kaidan and Anders are bisexual. Not half gay, quarter gay, almost gay, xx% gay, sorta gay, gay or super gay, but bisexual.

This is the exact issue I'm having, and it's bugging me a bit. Sexuality isn't a character trait, but they appear to be treating it like one. It's an inherent, genetically predetermined thing like hair color, or whatever...And you don't really have to rethink the character if you decide to change the color of their hair.

(now I'm gonna go back to lurking and liking things)

SO. MUCH. THIS. Not to say straight men can't write great romance content for other genders/orientations, but... there were definitely moments with FemShep's romance scenes where I actually thought to myself "I bet a straight dude wrote this." It would be nice if there was at least some collaboration with other people on the team. Because I feel like the only way Shepard's autoflirts with Jacob, the creepy Vega thing in the Citadel DLC, Sam's 'platonic' shower scene with Shepard creepily grinning to herself, or even Shepard's 'I want you' with Thane at that particular moment would've made it in if they'd sat down a group of women, had them watch, and asked 'what do you think?'

Except I prefaced with exactly that? That they can? There's also no guarantee that a writer will pull it off or not stick a problematic thing in there even if they're the 'right' gender. Blackwall was written by a woman, but plenty of women took issue with how he left their character naked and alone in full view of Skyhold after sleeping with them under false pretenses. And Sam Traynor was written by Partick Weekes - one of my favorite Bioware writers, and I believe even he admitted he could've done the romance better. But at the time he wrote what he knew, and what he thought lesbian players would want to see. He was off the mark. Doesn't make him a terrible writer, just means he (and perhaps whoever animated her scenes) probably should've gotten input from some lesbian women if it's unfamiliar territory.

And writing a character of a different race than you (because ultimately it's a character, and race shouldn't determine who they are) is rather different from writing a romance specifically tailored toward a certain group of people when you're not that group of people. Or writing about a gay person, and instead of writing a character who happens to be gay, you're writing a gay person first and character second - which is what 'making orientation make sense for the character' implies. I mean, what if the devs said 'we almost didn't make Liam black because it didn't make sense for the character'? It would cause a huge uproar, as it should. But when they say that about LGBT people, it's apparently okay? LGBT people seem to disagree. Having LGBT people on the writing team could potentially steer them in a better direction.

Also, David Gaider has this really cool anecdote about a scene that nearly made it into Inquisition. All the guys at the meeting thought it was fine. But the women pointed out that the found it disturbing and rape-y. So they removed it. The moral of the story being that they side-stepped a poor story choice thanks to having women on the team share their input. And, diversity is good. I don't think those scenes with FemShep were the result of terrible writers being terrible. I think they actually thought they were creating scenes women would want to see or would be okay with. Having a female writer go, 'but wait a minute...' would have created a better gaming experience for a whole lot of female players.

I'm so sorry, phone issue with editing. I only meant to pull that first quote. SORRY! D:

The phrasing "has to make sense for the character" just reads to me like, "we need an excuse for this character to not be straight".

Just make 'em not straight. You don't need to placate the homophobes out there: they're gonna be upset anyway.

Ok, first of all, where in the hell in my post did I say "white men can't write black characters" or "straight men can't write female romance". Don't put words in my mouth like that.

I said I wish to see a diverse group of people from all sexualities and orientations handle the romances in the future, instead of one straight man in particular who has made some very narrow minded (one could argue) comments about sexuality and orientation, and his views regarding this has likely impacted the balance of the romances, since he believes sexuality defines a person and should be a part of who they are.

Please don't take to mean that by me criticizing one straight writer, or group, who can't effectively write LGBT romances or female romances, in my opinion, that I am of the view that all straight male writers are rubbish at writing LGBT romances. I did not say that.

I happen to love the writers. I think they have done a fantastic job. But not in regards to the romances, especially given the view of one of the developers. That is why I said I wish in regards to the Mass Effect romances, I think it would be better a group of people from different orientations and sexuality write the romances, instead of a straight man who has a narrow minded view of sexuality.

Don't presume to think that by my criticizing one straight male writer, or one group, that I think the same for all straight men and writers.

Does writer's orientation really matter? I hated Dorian's romance. He was a walking stereotype, yet he was written by a gay man. I still cannot understand that.

Yep.

And to be perfectly honest, I'm getting tired of having to defend myself when asking to see better representation of LGBT characters and romance in games. 

No, I should not just take what I am given and just be happy with the fact that they even bothered to include it in the game.

If half the hetero males in games were treated or written how some of the LGBT characters are, there certainly wouldn't be any taking what they are given. 

Don't like the double standards of things sometimes. 

I have a feeling that Walter's statement: "it needs to make sense for the character" is an attempt to appease people who think that there needs a good reason for a character to be gay.

The problem is that the majority is so accustomed to being preferred by society that they do not even know this double standard any longer. There are various psychological experiments. One study compared a large group with a small group and in both groups the same number of positive and negative characteristics were mentioned. In the end, the subjects that participated believed that the small group had more negative characteristics than the large group, although that wasn't the case. Small groups do not meet the standard. Therefore, they are very noticeable. And if something is very noticeable and strange, people tend to be cautious and more negative. Even when the small group only ask for the same treatment like the other group. : / That's at least what I think.