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XO of SR2
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Post by dmc1001 on Jan 29, 2017 15:09:51 GMT
I'm sure this came up years ago on the old forums but I wasn't around. I know when the SR2 was a Cerberus ship that Miranda was the XO. My question is who was XO at the onset of ME3?
I sort of thought it was Ashley or Kaidan but they may never be on the ship past Mars. I'm assuming the person has to be a member of the Systems Alliance. My best bets are Vega or Adams. James seems to have the same rank as Shepard and the fact that he got an N7 commendation suggests he's very capable.
Thoughts?
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Post by gothpunkboy89 on Jan 29, 2017 15:16:50 GMT
I would actually assume it would be Joker. Assuming this isn't a conflict within the established chain of command system they use. Though both Traynor and EDI function closer to what a real XO would do. But neither of them are official Alliance soldiers to have that position.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 29, 2017 15:26:32 GMT
I think the premise in ME3 is that they left docks so shorthanded that Shepard doesn't have an XO. IF there is one, I would almost have to say it's Liara, since she does take over Miranda's space... but I know a lot of people would object to that notion... so best just to stick with my first thought.
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Post by themikefest on Jan 29, 2017 15:44:31 GMT
space hamster
since its a human ship, it would be Ashley/Kaidan. If they aren't onboard, I would say Adams.
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Post by dmc1001 on Jan 29, 2017 15:49:51 GMT
space hamster since its a human ship, it would be Ashley/Kaidan. If they aren't onboard, I would say Adams. This is what I was leaning toward. Ashley/Kaidan makes the most sense, even if they're on a leave of absence for injuries sustained on Mars. People say Liara but I can't see how a shady information broker who is an alien and not a member of the Systems Alliance would get that role. Clearly, it has to be someone who is answerable (so far as a Spectre is answerable to any particular military) to the Alliance chain of command. Liara is a completely independent agent, not answerable even to the Council. It would never fly, nor do I think Shepard would push for it. I think Joker was only on board because he and EDI led the Alliance to believe that the AI only responded to him. He'd never get the XO role. Ditto for Chakwas. Sounds like Adams in the absence of the VS.
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Post by stephenw32768 on Jan 29, 2017 16:25:24 GMT
Adams would be a logical choice as a senior officer with a long service record. Being chief engineer as well is not a problem, Pressly was both chief navigator and XO, if I recall correctly? James' rank is ambiguous; he's consistently referred to as a lieutenant in ME3, though ought to be higher ranked than that if Paragon Lost is canon (he gets a promotion at the end, if memory serves). Either way, having both the captain and XO routinely absent away on field missions is probably not a good thing (even if it did work for Kirk and Spock )
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Post by Deleted on Jan 29, 2017 16:25:57 GMT
space hamster since its a human ship, it would be Ashley/Kaidan. If they aren't onboard, I would say Adams. This is what I was leaning toward. Ashley/Kaidan makes the most sense, even if they're on a leave of absence for injuries sustained on Mars. People say Liara but I can't see how a shady information broker who is an alien and not a member of the Systems Alliance would get that role. Clearly, it has to be someone who is answerable (so far as a Spectre is answerable to any particular military) to the Alliance chain of command. Liara is a completely independent agent, not answerable even to the Council. It would never fly, nor do I think Shepard would push for it. I think Joker was only on board because he and EDI led the Alliance to believe that the AI only responded to him. He'd never get the XO role. Ditto for Chakwas. Sounds like Adams in the absence of the VS. I still think the situation is basically that we're operating without one due to crew shortages. An argument might also go for whoever tells Joker to go at the end since that duty would fall only on the XO's shoulders in absence of the Commander. If it's Adams, then that's the person we should see in that scene... yet, that is never the case.
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Post by dmc1001 on Jan 29, 2017 16:27:30 GMT
Adams would be a logical choice as a senior officer with a long service record. Being chief engineer as well is not a problem, Pressly was both chief navigator and XO, if I recall correctly? James' rank is ambiguous; he's consistently referred to as a lieutenant in ME3, though ought to be higher ranked than that if Paragon Lost is canon (he gets a promotion at the end, if memory serves). Either way, having both the captain and XO routinely absent away on field missions is probably not a good thing (even if it did work for Kirk and Spock ) Who was in charge when they were away? McCoy or Scotty?
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Post by stephenw32768 on Jan 29, 2017 16:29:45 GMT
Who was in charge when they were away? McCoy or Scotty? I think it was Scotty, I have vague memories of seeing him in the command chair occasionally when Kirk radioed the Enterprise for some reason. That's just ancient neurons firing though, I have no supporting evidence.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jan 29, 2017 17:03:17 GMT
Considering the situation the Normandy departed from Earth, it could be that the planned XO was never aboard. After all the planned CO was Anderson, and he chose to stay behind. Perhaps Anderson even planned for Shepard to be his XO like in the beginning of ME1, but never got to telling Shepard that.
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Post by themikefest on Jan 29, 2017 17:47:40 GMT
An argument might also go for whoever tells Joker to go at the end since that duty would fall only on the XO's shoulders in absence of the Commander. If it's Adams, then that's the person we should see in that scene... yet, that is never the case. You are aware, depending on the playthrough, that no one will tell him to go.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 29, 2017 17:51:52 GMT
An argument might also go for whoever tells Joker to go at the end since that duty would fall only on the XO's shoulders in absence of the Commander. If it's Adams, then that's the person we should see in that scene... yet, that is never the case. You are aware, depending on the playthrough, that no one will tell him to go. Further strengthening my argument that Normandy in ME3 simply has no appointed XO. It's not Adams or Adams would be there in all cases since he doesn't leave the ship.
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Post by themikefest on Jan 29, 2017 17:55:02 GMT
Further strengthening my argument that Normandy in ME3 simply has no appointed XO. It's not Adams or Adams would be there in all cases since he doesn't leave the ship. That doesn't strengthen anything. He heard what Hackett said. Just leave. He didn't need anyone to tell him that.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 29, 2017 18:10:08 GMT
Further strengthening my argument that Normandy in ME3 simply has no appointed XO. It's not Adams or Adams would be there in all cases since he doesn't leave the ship. That doesn't strengthen anything. He heard what Hackett said. Just leave. He didn't need anyone to tell him that. If there were an appointed XO, the order to still likely have been verified by the XO; and, at any rate, no one other than the XO would be telling Joker to leave in any other instance... and that person changes around... it can be Garrus or even Samantha, depending on Shepard's LI. We are told right at the outset that Normandy left earth with a bunch of people onboard only to oversee retrofits... no XO and Shepard never appears to acquire an XO at any point afterwards. The only other possibility is that Ashley or Kaidan are meant to have been Anderson's XO and so arbitrarily become Shepard's XO after Anderson clearly transfer command to Shepard. Therefore, Shepard's XO is in the hospital for the first part of the game and he/she is left running without one. If shot, then Shepard shoots his/her XO and again, runs without one for the rest of the game. If that's the case then, I don't understand why there is no dialogue with either Ashley or Kaidan about them re-accepting the position of XO on the ship when Shepard approaches them to rejoin the crew.
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Post by themikefest on Jan 29, 2017 18:18:31 GMT
If there were an appointed XO, the order to still likely have been verified by the XO; and, at any rate, no one other than the XO would be telling Joker to leave in any other instance... and that person changes around... it can be Garrus or even Samantha, depending on Shepard's LI. Have you heard Samantha tell Joker to leave? I haven't. Shepard's LI is usually the one that is talked to during the what-the-crap evac scene. So they won't be the one telling Joker to leave. Even if Steve is the LI, he won't be telling Joker to leave.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 29, 2017 18:21:55 GMT
The Normandy is an Alliance military vessel, so the XO couldn't be any of the aliens. They're passengers and not part of the official chain of command.
The XO is probably the Virmire Survivor, since Ashley and Kaidan are the senior Alliance military officers on board after Shepard. If the VS is hospitalized, dead, or assigned to the Crucible, my guess would be that Adams is probably the XO. Chakwas outranks him but she's a medical officer, and medical officers don't command warships (they're specialized entirely in the medical field). Adams seems older than Joker, and might have more time in service / grade.
Adams would certainly be a more believable XO than Joker at least. Adams has the bearing of someone who would be fit for command. Joker doesn't. He might be a good pilot, but he's also a bit immature and lacking in military bearing.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 29, 2017 19:41:10 GMT
If there were an appointed XO, the order to still likely have been verified by the XO; and, at any rate, no one other than the XO would be telling Joker to leave in any other instance... and that person changes around... it can be Garrus or even Samantha, depending on Shepard's LI. Have you heard Samantha tell Joker to leave? I haven't. Shepard's LI is usually the one that is talked to during the what-the-crap evac scene. So they won't be the one telling Joker to leave. Even if Steve is the LI, he won't be telling Joker to leave. I'm quite sure that I have. Also, it's up to the player whether or not they take their LI on that last mission. I have not ever seen Steve undertake that duty. I know... it's that guy who just walks around the deck saluting Shepard. The fact remains that ME3 quite simply does not designate an XO for Normandy... so head canon that Shepard says "you have the conn/bridge" to whoever you like whenever he/she leaves the ship.
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Post by themikefest on Jan 29, 2017 20:03:17 GMT
I'm quite sure that I have. This is the first time I've ever read a post from someone saying that. She has always remained behind Joker not saying anything Have you not taken your LI on the beam run?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 29, 2017 20:08:55 GMT
I'm quite sure that I have. This is the first time I've ever read a post from someone saying that. She has always remained behind Joker not saying anything Have you not taken your LI on the beam run? Answering one... I could indeed be mistaken. Answering two... Yes, many times... sometimes Shepard just feels his/her LI is safest on the ship. Show me a point where ME3 actually designates an XO and I'll rest my case. I still think we're officially operating without one and Shepard, in most cases, just leaves the ship in Joker's hands when he/she leaves. In fact, the conversation about EDI just before Chronos sort of bears that idea out... when Joker asks Shepard to look after EDI, he/she responds with "same to you." Since EDI is the Normandy AI, I believe he/she is essentially passing the conn to Joker right there.
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Post by aoibhealfae on Jan 29, 2017 22:22:36 GMT
Between Kaidan and Adams. Maybe James if he's up for it as I dont feel Ash is experienced enough even with her new rank.
EDI and the guy who kept walking around the mess hall make a better contender than any of the aliens.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2017 8:28:17 GMT
This is the first time I've ever read a post from someone saying that. She has always remained behind Joker not saying anything Have you not taken your LI on the beam run? Answering one... I could indeed be mistaken. Answering two... Yes, many times... sometimes Shepard just feels his/her LI is safest on the ship. Show me a point where ME3 actually designates an XO and I'll rest my case. I still think we're officially operating without one and Shepard, in most cases, just leaves the ship in Joker's hands when he/she leaves. In fact, the conversation about EDI just before Chronos sort of bears that idea out... when Joker asks Shepard to look after EDI, he/she responds with "same to you." Since EDI is the Normandy AI, I believe he/she is essentially passing the conn to Joker right there. I don't think the writers bothered to designate an XO when writing the story, but I wouldn't take that as an indication that there isn't one. I think it just wasn't mentioned either because of an oversight, or it was left out because it played no role in the story. All real world military organizations have a clear chain of command so that in the event of casualties, confusion doesn't reign and you have a smooth transition of authority. The XO aboard a naval vessel usually oversees logistics and personnel/disciplinary responsibilities as well, to free the captain up to concentrate on tactics & planning. I would assume the Alliance would need a similar setup, since the captains of vessels can only do so much. Some authority would need to be delegated.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2017 9:55:59 GMT
Answering one... I could indeed be mistaken. Answering two... Yes, many times... sometimes Shepard just feels his/her LI is safest on the ship. Show me a point where ME3 actually designates an XO and I'll rest my case. I still think we're officially operating without one and Shepard, in most cases, just leaves the ship in Joker's hands when he/she leaves. In fact, the conversation about EDI just before Chronos sort of bears that idea out... when Joker asks Shepard to look after EDI, he/she responds with "same to you." Since EDI is the Normandy AI, I believe he/she is essentially passing the conn to Joker right there. I don't think the writers bothered to designate an XO when writing the story, but I wouldn't take that as an indication that there isn't one. I think it just wasn't mentioned either because of an oversight, or it was left out because it played no role in the story. All real world military organizations have a clear chain of command so that in the event of casualties, confusion doesn't reign and you have a smooth transition of authority. The XO aboard a naval vessel usually oversees logistics and personnel/disciplinary responsibilities as well, to free the captain up to concentrate on tactics & planning. I would assume the Alliance would need a similar setup, since the captains of vessels can only do so much. Some authority would need to be delegated. I do understand the purpose of an XO and that IRL there would always be one... However, as themikefest continually says... this Alliance is not a real military, they can do whatever they like. Some people took issue with Miranda arbitrarily being Shepard's "second in command" so I'm inclined to believe that it was intentionally left out to enable different players to head canon in whoever they felt most appropriate for the position... i.e. to enable, if the player wished, to imagine Shepard passing off the conn to an alien if he/she desired. I don't object to anyone considering Adams as XO, I just wouldn't go so far as to say that anyone who wanted to put, say, Garrus, into that role would be totally wrong to do so. Shepard is a spectre; the ship is only "somewhat" Alliance; so Shepard could, I think, take some liberties with how he/she manages the chain of command under him/her. IRL, a commander would not be able to just go around adding "aliens" to his/her crew either; and Shepard does that through all three games. The bottom line here is that the fact remains that Bioware did not specify an XO in ME3. They did in both ME1 and, in principle, also in ME2.
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Post by dmc1001 on Jan 30, 2017 13:56:14 GMT
I do understand the purpose of an XO and that IRL there would always be one... However, as themikefest continually says... this Alliance is not a real military, they can do whatever they like. Some people took issue with Miranda arbitrarily being Shepard's "second in command" so I'm inclined to believe that it was intentionally left out to enable different players to head canon in whoever they felt most appropriate for the position... i.e. to enable, if the player wished, to imagine Shepard passing off the conn to an alien if he/she desired. I don't object to anyone considering Adams as XO, I just wouldn't go so far as to say that anyone who wanted to put, say, Garrus, into that role would be totally wrong to do so. Shepard is a spectre; the ship is only "somewhat" Alliance; so Shepard could, I think, take some liberties with how he/she manages the chain of command under him/her. IRL, a commander would not be able to just go around adding "aliens" to his/her crew either; and Shepard does that through all three games. Shepard has a lot of latitude about who he can bring on his mission as a Spectre. However, I still think there's a chain of command for Alliance military. Otherwise, the whole discussion about Shepard and the VS fraternizing would be pointless. I do know that ME3 made no statement about it. I was just curious how people approached it. There might not have been an XO or it could have been someone appointed. In my "what did you do" posts I often, at some point in ME3, mention who my XO is.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2017 14:30:18 GMT
I do understand the purpose of an XO and that IRL there would always be one... However, as themikefest continually says... this Alliance is not a real military, they can do whatever they like. Some people took issue with Miranda arbitrarily being Shepard's "second in command" so I'm inclined to believe that it was intentionally left out to enable different players to head canon in whoever they felt most appropriate for the position... i.e. to enable, if the player wished, to imagine Shepard passing off the conn to an alien if he/she desired. I don't object to anyone considering Adams as XO, I just wouldn't go so far as to say that anyone who wanted to put, say, Garrus, into that role would be totally wrong to do so. Shepard is a spectre; the ship is only "somewhat" Alliance; so Shepard could, I think, take some liberties with how he/she manages the chain of command under him/her. IRL, a commander would not be able to just go around adding "aliens" to his/her crew either; and Shepard does that through all three games. Shepard has a lot of latitude about who he can bring on his mission as a Spectre. However, I still think there's a chain of command for Alliance military. Otherwise, the whole discussion about Shepard and the VS fraternizing would be pointless. I do know that ME3 made no statement about it. I was just curious how people approached it. There might not have been an XO or it could have been someone appointed. In my "what did you do" posts I often, at some point in ME3, mention who my XO is. ... which the whole fraternization thing was pointless wasn't it? Shepard could fraternize and there was never any action taken by the Alliance. If the fraternization occurred with the VS, the VS even received a promotion. I'm fine with the "what if's"... In fact, I've think I've put in various "arguments" here for a number of different choices as XO. 1) Argument for VS - that they were intended to be Anderson's XO (hence, why it was that Anderson contacted them to get to the Normandy to escape earth). 2) Argument for Liara - that she occupies the former XO's space on the ship 3) Argument for Adams - that he is Chief Engineer and that the entire crew is basically engineers overseeing retrofits. 4) Argument for Garrus and other - that he is frequently seen giving Joker the direction to leave the commander behind. (Additional argument - Turian generals salute the man and he/she may be next in line for becoming Primarch and Normandy is a co-design between the Turians and the Alliance.) 5) Argument for Joker - that Shepard effectively tells him to look after the ship when leaving for the Chronos mission. (Additional argument - It is usually Joker that Shepard communicates with over comms... e.g. Just before the final battle when Joker tells Shepard "I'll hold you to that.")
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Post by themikefest on Jan 30, 2017 14:40:39 GMT
Joker would never be the XO since all he cared about was baking a cake for the tin can and he's the pilot. He needs to keep the ship flying. He isn't able to move around the ship making sure everything else is running smoothly
The asari an XO? That's as funny as the green ending. It's because she's in Miranda's office? Yeah right. If I put Allers in that room does that mean she's the XO?
My suggestion to Bioware is hire someone who is in the military or recently got out. I would say get someone from the Canadian military since Bioware is from Canada
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