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Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2017 14:49:44 GMT
Joker would never be the XO since all he cared about was baking a cake for the tin can and he's the pilot. He needs to keep the ship flying. He isn't able to move around the ship making sure everything else is running smoothly The asari an XO? That's as funny as the green ending. It's because she's in Miranda's office? Yeah right. If I put Allers in that room does that mean she's the XO? My suggestion to Bioware is hire someone who is in the military or recently got out. I would say get someone from the Canadian military since Bioware is from Canada Then, there's the guy whose rank and position we don't know who wanders about the decks and will salute Shepard if clicked. Come on... it's a game! If Bioware wants to leave the XO'ness to the player's choice, that's their prerogative. People here cry about not having enough player choice... and yet, here I am taking shit for trying to point out an area where the player has some choice. (shrug) You're the one who keeps saying that the Alliance military can do whatever it likes.
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Post by themikefest on Jan 30, 2017 15:00:16 GMT
You're the one who keeps saying that the Alliance military can do whatever it likes. If they want to do whatever, at least keep it consistent. Look at Traynor. They have her as a Specialist, but that rank doesn't exist
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Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2017 19:24:24 GMT
You're the one who keeps saying that the Alliance military can do whatever it likes. If they want to do whatever, at least keep it consistent. Look at Traynor. They have her as a Specialist, but that rank doesn't exist I do feel you on the matter of consistency. According to the ME1 and ME2 Codex, neither do the ranks of Chief Engineer or Flight Lieutenant exist, yet both are clearly uttered in the game in ME3 in relation to Adams and Joker, respectively. You also have the issue of the Codex indicating that a Major (Alenko) out ranks a Staff Commander (Shepard presumed since he clearly starts out as Lt. Commander) and, since Kaidan, is seen in the beginning of ME1 as co-piloting the ship, it can't even really be argued that he is ground forces only. Kaidan, therefore, is the ranking officer, so why doesn't Anderson put him in command or give Shepard a field promotion to the rank of Captain? Still, I don't see where that should prevent players from designating whoever they want as XO (if they even want to designate one)... since Bioware does not specifically fill that position with any individual we know on the ship.
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Post by sgtreed24 on Jan 30, 2017 21:09:42 GMT
Who was in charge when they were away? McCoy or Scotty? I think it was Scotty, I have vague memories of seeing him in the command chair occasionally when Kirk radioed the Enterprise for some reason. That's just ancient neurons firing though, I have no supporting evidence. In the new movies, it's sulu. If that makes any difference. lol
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Post by mrfixit on Jan 30, 2017 22:05:22 GMT
If they want to do whatever, at least keep it consistent. Look at Traynor. They have her as a Specialist, but that rank doesn't exist I do feel you on the matter of consistency. According to the ME1 and ME2 Codex, neither do the ranks of Chief Engineer or Flight Lieutenant exist, yet both are clearly uttered in the game in ME3 in relation to Adams and Joker, respectively. You also have the issue of the Codex indicating that a Major (Alenko) out ranks a Staff Commander (Shepard presumed since he clearly starts out as Lt. Commander) and, since Kaidan, is seen in the beginning of ME1 as co-piloting the ship, it can't even really be argued that he is ground forces only. Kaidan, therefore, is the ranking officer, so why doesn't Anderson put him in command or give Shepard a field promotion to the rank of Captain? Still, I don't see where that should prevent players from designating whoever they want as XO (if they even want to designate one)... since Bioware does not specifically fill that position with any individual we know on the ship. Chief Engineer isn't a rank, it's a position aboard a ship. Adams has the rank of lieutenant if I'm not mistaken. As for Kaidan, I agree that it's a bit strange that he outranks Shepard, but that is not an obstacle to naming Shepard the commanding officer. Speaking of Kaidan, he is way too young to have such a high rank. He has the same rank as Anderson, one of the most decorated officers in the Alliance navy! He apparently got promoted THREE TIMES between the end of ME1 and the beginning of ME3, which is total BS of course. Reminds me of Star Trek, where Janeway received 893026 promotions within a week of returning Voyager to Earth which now makes her Grand Ruler of the Known Universe. And that of course entails the supreme slap in the face: giving direct orders in Nemesis to none other than His Shiny Baldness, Epitome of Awesome, Tucker-in of Shirts, the Greatest Frenchman Who Ever Lived and Unchallenged Master of All That He Surveys Jean-Luc Picard. And that I. Will. Not. Tolerate.
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Post by Toledo wombat on Jan 30, 2017 22:08:15 GMT
"Dammit Jim, I'm a doctor not a Starship Captain!"
Sorry.
I assume it's the Virmire Survivor, but between the Beginning and Cerberus Coup? Adams is a good choice. I get the impression it's actually EDI, but no, not Liara. Liara's fine with gathering evidence, compiling databases and analysis and stuff, but she's got no military training and as far as we know, not a lot of experience in handling humans, or running starships. She's an academic with an interesting sideline in information dealing. She's bottom of the list, sorry.
I think EDI fulfills the role, sure she's probably not going to past muster with Alliance brass or anybody else, she can hardly be the name on the register, but nobody's going quibble with the future of intelligent life in the Milky Way at stake. The Allince would probably insist on speaking to Adams, Ashley/ Kaidan, Joker or James. I think of the three of them as being approximately equal in rank, although Adams trumps them all on experience. Man, and I though Joker was overdue a promotion... Promote Greg Adams to Commander! STAT! Although I think DR Chakwas could be relied upon to keep them all in order.
The person telling Joker to leave is hardly ever Shep's LI in my games. I assumed it was because they were badly injured after the beam run and in sickbay. I'm fairly sure i've never seen Ashley there, and that Garrus only turned up on the Kaidan-mance. I think the Ashmancer(s) got Liara. In fact i'm fairly sure than in Ash-nobody-Ash it was Liara. In fact i was beginning to think it was always Liara.
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Post by SpiritVanguard on Jan 30, 2017 22:30:18 GMT
The person telling Joker to leave is hardly ever Shep's LI in my games. I assumed it was because they were badly injured after the beam run and in sickbay. I'm fairly sure i've never seen Ashley there, and that Garrus only turned up on the Kaidan-mance. I think the Ashmancer(s) got Liara. In fact i'm fairly sure than in Ash-nobody-Ash it was Liara. In fact i was beginning to think it was always Liara. Same. I always bring my LI so I've never seen them in that scene. In my case I usually bring Kaidan and Liara on the beam run, so I almost always see Garrus with Traynor telling Joker to leave. I think on the couple times I brought Garrus instead of Liara she was in that scene.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2017 22:35:23 GMT
The person telling Joker to leave is hardly ever Shep's LI in my games. I assumed it was because they were badly injured after the beam run and in sickbay. I'm fairly sure i've never seen Ashley there, and that Garrus only turned up on the Kaidan-mance. I think the Ashmancer(s) got Liara. In fact i'm fairly sure than in Ash-nobody-Ash it was Liara. In fact i was beginning to think it was always Liara. Same. I always bring my LI so I've never seen them in that scene. In my case I usually bring Kaidan and Liara on the beam run, so I almost always see Garrus with Traynor telling Joker to leave. I think on the couple times I brought Garrus instead of Liara she was in that scene. I quite often romance Ashley and I don't particularly like her as a squadmate... so, more often than not, she stays on the ship... acting as my XO.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2017 23:02:27 GMT
I do feel you on the matter of consistency. According to the ME1 and ME2 Codex, neither do the ranks of Chief Engineer or Flight Lieutenant exist, yet both are clearly uttered in the game in ME3 in relation to Adams and Joker, respectively. You also have the issue of the Codex indicating that a Major (Alenko) out ranks a Staff Commander (Shepard presumed since he clearly starts out as Lt. Commander) and, since Kaidan, is seen in the beginning of ME1 as co-piloting the ship, it can't even really be argued that he is ground forces only. Kaidan, therefore, is the ranking officer, so why doesn't Anderson put him in command or give Shepard a field promotion to the rank of Captain? Still, I don't see where that should prevent players from designating whoever they want as XO (if they even want to designate one)... since Bioware does not specifically fill that position with any individual we know on the ship. Chief Engineer isn't a rank, it's a position aboard a ship. Adams has the rank of lieutenant if I'm not mistaken. As for Kaidan, I agree that it's a bit strange that he outranks Shepard, but that is not an obstacle to naming Shepard the commanding officer. Speaking of Kaidan, he is way too young to have such a high rank. He has the same rank as Anderson, one of the most decorated officers in the Alliance navy! He apparently got promoted THREE TIMES between the end of ME1 and the beginning of ME3, which is total BS of course. Reminds me of Star Trek, where Janeway received 893026 promotions within a week of returning Voyager to Earth which now makes her Grand Ruler of the Known Universe. And that of course entails the supreme slap in the face: giving direct orders in Nemesis to none other than His Shiny Baldness, Epitome of Awesome, Tucker-in of Shirts, the Greatest Frenchman Who Ever Lived and Unchallenged Master of All That He Surveys Jean-Luc Picard. And that I. Will. Not. Tolerate. I know the WIKi indicates he is a Lieutenant, but I don't think anywhere in either ME1 or ME3, anyone actually calls Adams "Lieutenant." His name label is "Engineer Adams" In ME1, it is possible that the bars on the dress uniform he is wearing indicate such a rank, but I do think it odd that no one ever addresses by his rank. I did hear him referred to as "Chief Engineer" in ME3. He is not listed in the ME3 codex under "Known Associates."
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Post by SpiritVanguard on Jan 30, 2017 23:20:57 GMT
Same. I always bring my LI so I've never seen them in that scene. In my case I usually bring Kaidan and Liara on the beam run, so I almost always see Garrus with Traynor telling Joker to leave. I think on the couple times I brought Garrus instead of Liara she was in that scene. I quite often romance Ashley and I don't particularly like her as a squadmate... so, more often than not, she stays on the ship... acting as my XO. I don't know if I'd consider Kaidan being my XO, but it's not something I think about. I use him a lot on missions once he's aboard so he wouldn't be there most of the time anyway. Then again, I use Miranda a lot as well and she's the automatic XO, so I guess it's not that big a deal -- just matters who's in line after them. I guess judging by that Joker scene in 3 it could be Garrus for me, though likely "unofficially" as officially it'd be an Alliance officer. I wouldn't have it ever be Liara, however. When I did have Ashley in 3 I don't think she appeared in that scene either, and she also wasn't my LI. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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Post by dmc1001 on Jan 30, 2017 23:25:06 GMT
Speaking of Kaidan, he is way too young to have such a high rank. He has the same rank as Anderson, one of the most decorated officers in the Alliance navy! Kaidan is a major. Anderson is an admiral. In real life, major and general could be equivalent between different branches of military. Admiral is higher than either.
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Post by mrfixit on Jan 30, 2017 23:37:20 GMT
Kaidan is a major. Anderson is an admiral. I was thinking of ME1 Anderson. He's a captain there, while Alenko only two years later is a major, which in the Alliance is the equivalent rank. Kinda silly, but there you have it.
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Post by dmc1001 on Jan 30, 2017 23:46:42 GMT
Kaidan is a major. Anderson is an admiral. I was thinking of ME1 Anderson. He's a captain there, while Alenko only two years later is a major, which in the Alliance is the equivalent rank. Kinda silly, but there you have it. Ah, yeah. I assume that Anderson was promoted behind the scenes when he either became Councilor or Udina's assistant. I think the next rank up was rear admiral. Then he probably got promoted again when leaving the position to admiral. That would still make him two ranks above Kaidan.
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Post by anehforaneh on Jan 31, 2017 0:38:37 GMT
According to wikipedia an XO is an administrative position, rather than a command position.
By that description Traynor seems to fit the position best. Supported by the fact she is not a squad-mate and stays on ship.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 31, 2017 1:19:11 GMT
According to wikipedia an XO is an administrative position, rather than a command position. By that description Traynor seems to fit the position best. Supported by the fact she is not a squad-mate and stays on ship. ME1, though, did set it up clearly as a position that assumes command by first assigning Shepard as Anderson's XO (as is described in the datapads in Anderson's appartment in the ME3 Citadel DLC) and then by giving the deck to "XO Pressly" every time Shepard left the ship. Under Anderson, Pressly is "Navigator Pressly."
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Post by themikefest on Jan 31, 2017 2:11:43 GMT
By that description Traynor seems to fit the position best. Supported by the fact she is not a squad-mate and stays on ship. As much as I like the character, I would not have her as an XO. She has no experience serving on a space ship. She has no idea what to do if a crisis were to arise except anything that has to to with comms, her field of expertise.
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Post by Link"Guess"ski on Jan 31, 2017 13:38:43 GMT
If they want to do whatever, at least keep it consistent. Look at Traynor. They have her as a Specialist, but that rank doesn't exist I do feel you on the matter of consistency. According to the ME1 and ME2 Codex, neither do the ranks of Chief Engineer or Flight Lieutenant exist, yet both are clearly uttered in the game in ME3 in relation to Adams and Joker, respectively. You also have the issue of the Codex indicating that a Major (Alenko) out ranks a Staff Commander (Shepard presumed since he clearly starts out as Lt. Commander) and, since Kaidan, is seen in the beginning of ME1 as co-piloting the ship, it can't even really be argued that he is ground forces only. Kaidan, therefore, is the ranking officer, so why doesn't Anderson put him in command or give Shepard a field promotion to the rank of Captain? Still, I don't see where that should prevent players from designating whoever they want as XO (if they even want to designate one)... since Bioware does not specifically fill that position with any individual we know on the ship. Bear in mind that the codex of ME3 is a self-contradicting mess. I am halfway through my current ME3 run as part of a full trilogy playthrough and this time I was so patient as to read almost all of the codex, and in ME3... I'll go and find some examples later if need be, but holy cow it's full of contradicitons. For example you just meet Garrus, I think it was, and after the conversation you get his codex-entry. Read it and it ends with "After ME2 he disbanded the Normandy. His current whereabouts are unknown..." but you just met him and he's right there. Someone didn't read through the codex at the end of the game and it doesn't update after you get Garrus on your squad. That's just one but I read other things that made me go "wait a minute?" and as I said, I'll dig into it later if need be. But yeah, no surprise that ME3 didn't stick to military jargon that ME1 set up. Oh yeah, and ME3 also says that "Ashley Williams was promoted from Gunnery Chief to Lieutenant Commander after the Battle of the Citadel in 2183" in her ME3 codex entry which directly contradicts ME2 where she's still Gunnery Chief or promoted a single rank or something (in 2185), and besides I read in, I think it was a comic or something, that she was awarded her LT status in a ceremony after Horizon.
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Post by anehforaneh on Jan 31, 2017 14:33:05 GMT
By that description Traynor seems to fit the position best. Supported by the fact she is not a squad-mate and stays on ship. As much as I like the character, I would not have her as an XO. She has no experience serving on a space ship. She has no idea what to do if a crisis were to arise except anything that has to to with comms, her field of expertise. I'm not disagreeing with that assessment, but be that as it may the military duties of an XO are clear. Of all the crew members on the ship, she does fit the description best. Even if Ashley/Kaiden was your original XO, the fact that they are unconscious for half the game means the position falls to the next in the chain of command. It is preposterous to think the position would be left "vacant." Even if the Normandy is an extra-Alliance vessel, and aliens can assume command of her (a proposition I am willing to accept), Traynor has had access to all the intel coming through, making her more "up to speed" than anyone else, even if she does have less experience. And being in command does not mean she needs to lead ground teams (something very odd for Shepard to do, actually); she can easily relegate that duty to Garrus or Vega.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 31, 2017 14:48:16 GMT
I do feel you on the matter of consistency. According to the ME1 and ME2 Codex, neither do the ranks of Chief Engineer or Flight Lieutenant exist, yet both are clearly uttered in the game in ME3 in relation to Adams and Joker, respectively. You also have the issue of the Codex indicating that a Major (Alenko) out ranks a Staff Commander (Shepard presumed since he clearly starts out as Lt. Commander) and, since Kaidan, is seen in the beginning of ME1 as co-piloting the ship, it can't even really be argued that he is ground forces only. Kaidan, therefore, is the ranking officer, so why doesn't Anderson put him in command or give Shepard a field promotion to the rank of Captain? Still, I don't see where that should prevent players from designating whoever they want as XO (if they even want to designate one)... since Bioware does not specifically fill that position with any individual we know on the ship. Bear in mind that the codex of ME3 is a self-contradicting mess. I am halfway through my current ME3 run as part of a full trilogy playthrough and this time I was so patient as to read almost all of the codex, and in ME3... I'll go and find some examples later if need be, but holy cow it's full of contradicitons. For example you just meet Garrus, I think it was, and after the conversation you get his codex-entry. Read it and it ends with "After ME2 he disbanded the Normandy. His current whereabouts are unknown..." but you just met him and he's right there. Someone didn't read through the codex at the end of the game and it doesn't update after you get Garrus on your squad. That's just one but I read other things that made me go "wait a minute?" and as I said, I'll dig into it later if need be. But yeah, no surprise that ME3 didn't stick to military jargon that ME1 set up. Oh yeah, and ME3 also says that "Ashley Williams was promoted from Gunnery Chief to Lieutenant Commander after the Battle of the Citadel in 2183" in her ME3 codex entry which directly contradicts ME2 where she's still Gunnery Chief or promoted a single rank or something (in 2185), and besides I read in, I think it was a comic or something, that she was awarded her LT status in a ceremony after Horizon. Not sure where this really ties into the discussion of rank and position on the ship. ME3 obviously added in a few titles that were not in ME1 or ME2; and since they didn't do an equivalent "Military Ranks" codex entry in ME3, we just can't really tell for sure where those new titles might fit into the scheme of things. It's hard to say where the rank of "Specialist" (which appears to be Samantha's rank) fits in. From the conversations Shepard has with her on the ship, she does not appear to have front-line experience, that doesn't mean that she doesn't have rank though. Specialist may be, for all we know, a very high administrative rank. As for Adams... I'd still like to know where in the actual game it is that he's referred to as a Lieutenant. All I'm finding is "Chief Engineer."
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Post by themikefest on Jan 31, 2017 14:53:13 GMT
Specialist is an E-4, the same rank as a Corporal.
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Post by dmc1001 on Jan 31, 2017 15:04:57 GMT
As for Adams... I'd still like to know where in the actual game it is that he's referred to as a Lieutenant. All I'm finding is "Chief Engineer." I don't know the answer to that one myself. However, Pressly is referred to as "Navigator Pressly". I doubt Navigator was his rank. Similarly, when Shepard takes command of the Normandy, Pressly is referred to as "XO Pressly". Again, that's not his rank, or else Shepard would have been referred to as "XO Shepard" in the beginning. Regarding Traynor's rank... Specialist (rank). It's an Army rank. Currently, it ranks below corporal. Also, recruits with a 4-year college degree enter as specialist. Pretty low in the rankings (E4) so unlikely to command anyone.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 31, 2017 15:30:20 GMT
As for Adams... I'd still like to know where in the actual game it is that he's referred to as a Lieutenant. All I'm finding is "Chief Engineer." I don't know the answer to that one myself. However, Pressly is referred to as "Navigator Pressly". I doubt Navigator was his rank. Similarly, when Shepard takes command of the Normandy, Pressly is referred to as "XO Pressly". Again, that's not his rank, or else Shepard would have been referred to as "XO Shepard" in the beginning. Regarding Traynor's rank... Specialist (rank). It's an Army rank. Currently, it ranks below corporal. Also, recruits with a 4-year college degree enter as specialist. Pretty low in the rankings (E4) so unlikely to command anyone. G You're probably right that Specialist is a low rank... but without any input from Bioware in the codex, we just really don't know for sure. That's partially why I say that this leaving the XO open like they did was intentional. They haven't really left us with any obvious candidate to fill the position; whereas in ME1, they absolutely specified it for us via creating a minor character precisely to fill that role. What are the ranks of the two watching the war room door? Maybe one of them is a candidate? (ETA: Answering my own question - those two are Privates). However, there is a guy standing at the CIC where Pressly always stood; and come to think of it, I think it's him shown turning and leaving the CIC Galaxy Map area as the Normandy flees just before the Crucible goes off. That's my final vote... whoever he is, whatever his rank... he's the official X0 of ME3 since he obviously takes command of the galaxy map when Shepard is not on the ship... that last view of the SR-2 CIC tells it all.
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