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Post by jnericsonx on Feb 10, 2017 1:45:47 GMT
I don't just mean Mordin, Thane, and Legion dying-though God knows those were some depressing moments, I mean like, the "Blue Rose of Illum" Krogan in ME2 dying, or, here's one, a Quarian child loses his mom in Tali's loyalty mission in 2, and his father dies on the Quarian homeworld in 3. I mean, yeah, God, we get it, war is hell, people die, but.....damn.
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Post by gothpunkboy89 on Feb 10, 2017 1:56:22 GMT
It is a story about the Reaper invasion. What did you expect sun shine and butterflies? Frankly it is to light hearted as it is. They seriously gloss over a ton of stuff.
They basically turned Saw into Care Bears.
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Post by dmc1001 on Feb 10, 2017 2:25:51 GMT
It was sad, yes, but I think the deaths of people you cared about (your squadmates) or even small things like having helped Charr and Ereba to stay together and then learning Charr died helped to illustrate the seriousness of what was happening. The one with the quarian Jona was pretty sad, with him having lost both of his parents between ME2 and ME3. War does suck but I think, if you chose it to be that way, you ended up with an overall happy ending.
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Post by stephenw32768 on Feb 10, 2017 7:22:31 GMT
A lot of people die, it's true; not just named characters, but the millions taken by Reapers and turned into troops. However, unless you pick the Refuse ending, a lot more people survive.
I think the tone of the game is about right, personally.
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Post by Gileadan on Feb 10, 2017 8:59:07 GMT
It is a story about the Reaper invasion. What did you expect sun shine and butterflies? Frankly it is to light hearted as it is. They seriously gloss over a ton of stuff. They basically turned Saw into Care Bears. This. Watch Joseph Vilsmaier's "Stalingrad" from 1993 for a level of depression that I would consider appropriate... and that was just about a battle for a single city, not a galaxy wide massacre. ME3 treated the whole thing very, very gently.
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Post by themikefest on Feb 10, 2017 12:22:07 GMT
a lot of the named characters that died in the game were unnecessary. The deaths were done for the feels. Look at Thanes death. Had the guy shot Leng when he had the chance, most likely he would not have died. Or if he didn't play chicken, he might have lived.
the closest scene that came to making me feel depressed/sad was the first time I did a low-ems destroy playthrough. Seeing Earth being scorched was sad since I care about my homeworld and species.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2017 12:22:08 GMT
I don't think it's too depressing overall. I think it's just good at causing people to care a little about those individuals who do die. For example, in most games, collecting a loot item off a dead corpse is done over and over again without a second thought. However, even if you don't do ME2, you'll probably find yourself caring a little bit about Charr's dying message to Ereba. Why? Well... because you overhear her talking about her marriage to a customer and by simply having Charr voice his dying message to her. If you did ME2 and helped to resolve their relationship, you're going to be inclined to even care a little bit more.
I thought it was refreshing, not depressing, to find a shooter game that could make me pause over what was simply collecting loot from a dead corpse. It's not that so many more people died than do in an average shooter game... it's that you find yourself caring about them a little bit. To illustrate the difference... How many people would say that ME1 was "too depressing" or too full of "unnecessary deaths" because of all those mummified salarians and dead corpses from whom you collected ID tags and other such loot?
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Post by Hawke on Feb 10, 2017 16:59:22 GMT
The couple of moments I could call "sad" were dying squadmates, Kandros, Anderson and the mission on Horizon (Unit 731 reference?). Other events meant to be dramatic were more like "What?" or "Why? or "Seriously?". It is a story about the Reaper invasion. What did you expect sun shine and butterflies? Frankly it is to light hearted as it is. They seriously gloss over a ton of stuff. They basically turned Saw into Care Bears. This. Watch Joseph Vilsmaier's "Stalingrad" from 1993 for a level of depression that I would consider appropriate... and that was just about a battle for a single city, not a galaxy wide massacre. ME3 treated the whole thing very, very gently. Seconded.
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Post by AnDromedary on Feb 10, 2017 22:18:22 GMT
It is a story about the Reaper invasion. What did you expect sun shine and butterflies? Frankly it is to light hearted as it is. They seriously gloss over a ton of stuff. They basically turned Saw into Care Bears. This. Watch Joseph Vilsmaier's "Stalingrad" from 1993 for a level of depression that I would consider appropriate... and that was just about a battle for a single city, not a galaxy wide massacre. ME3 treated the whole thing very, very gently. I actually think it got the tone about right. Remember, it's not just a game about war, it's also a game of a series that branded itself as a revival of classic 80s SciFi and that is a sequel of two games with a much more lighthearted approach. You don't just shift that to full-on Stalingrad levels. While I agree that the war scenario needed the shift to the darker, more depressive tone overall, I think they did plenty of that to get their points across. I am also glad that ME:Andromeda will go away from the doom&gloom setting and will go back to ME1's more hopeful and exploration-focused classic SciFi atmosphere. It meshes much better with the exploration focused gameplay they set out to achieve as well, IMO.
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Post by gothpunkboy89 on Feb 10, 2017 23:50:19 GMT
This. Watch Joseph Vilsmaier's "Stalingrad" from 1993 for a level of depression that I would consider appropriate... and that was just about a battle for a single city, not a galaxy wide massacre. ME3 treated the whole thing very, very gently. I actually think it got the tone about right. Remember, it's not just a game about war, it's also a game of a series that branded itself as a revival of classic 80s SciFi and that is a sequel of two games with a much more lighthearted approach. You don't just shift that to full-on Stalingrad levels. While I agree that the war scenario needed the shift to the darker, more depressive tone overall, I think they did plenty of that to get their points across. I am also glad that ME:Andromeda will go away from the doom&gloom setting and will go back to ME1's more hopeful and exploration-focused classic SciFi atmosphere. It meshes much better with the exploration focused gameplay they set out to achieve as well, IMO. And yet ME 1 and 2 are still very dark. Just not as dark a subject.
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Post by opuspace on Feb 11, 2017 9:50:57 GMT
Actually, it seemed a little tame at times. Too many victories, not enough of a sense of frustration and desperation.
Actually, let me correct that; There were plenty of things to be frustrated about. But there were too many dramatic speeches, too much overpowered ability and over the top dramatic moments to be hit with a sense of poignancy when tragedies struck. Mordin's death was well done, but what genuinely sad moments were there were overwhelmed by flaws in the design and execution. For example, they're never going to get me to cry over that kid because there was too much uncanny valley with it. I can't really feel bad if I'm too busy questioning where the hell is this kid's parents and what child talks like that. It's terrible symbolism because there's no connection and it feels ham-fisted and contrived.
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Post by Link"Guess"ski on Feb 11, 2017 15:46:51 GMT
I think they made a mistake of making every game tonally inconsistent with one another. You can always make one more serious than the other but if you look at Lord of The Rings which is a very general example of a great trilogy there's overall a similar tone in all three movies/books.
I think beginning the doomsday plot right as it happens in ME3 was always going to be part of the game in some way, but it's more the idea of "war" and how militaristic everything became that I take issue with. I know there was always the alliance and we've always heard about the Turian military, the Flotilla and hte morning war and etc. but it was pretty big news to me that the Protheans had so much warfare with the Reapers before being wiped out let alone that according to the writing in the Mars mission they "came close to defeating the Reapers". I'm aware that was a handwave to allow for an actual solution since we wasted ME2 not discovering anything that was valuable against the Reapers and that they suddenly aren't "trapped" in Dark Space anymore, but that was still an overall shift in tone IMO that we're actually "at war" with the Reapers.
Logistically it's sound. Why the hell wouldn't we face them head on with all our advanced military across every home world, but you really get the impression in ME1 that the Reaper invasion would be so massive in force and scope that we'd be wiped out in days or even a split-second from how strong the Reapers are in their bulk strength, and making the story about "war" implies that we're as much in a diplomatic opposition with the Reapers as we are in physical strength, and that just doesn't work when we're supposedly coming from different planes of existence.
And with that "war" tone came a lot of WW2-elements like nukes, military objectives, military chatter over radios that try to sound like CoD, and BioWare went full-on with this WW2-themed version of Mass Effect. You meet Kirrahe and he's now black-green and you meet the Quarians and they're now all black-suited or black-ish, and the Normandy is darker than ever before and gone (to some extent) is that feeling of wonder and curiosity that ME1 and ME2 had replaced with doom and gloom... and gruff military marines from all species. Mass Effect always had some "pulpyness" to it and IMO this contrasts in a bad way with the attempt to create "realness" and groundedness.
It's fine to have general themes resound each other and tie them each to their own act but to outright change the cosmetics and the narrative tone so much per installment was a mistake IMHO. I really wish the Alliance and Earth weren't so central to ME3 and that as a Spectre we'd have to work with the Council to fly across the galaxy chasing various leads akin to the mission on Thessia where we see the ongoing war on the periphery but we're not the tip of the spear in it (because we're one friggin soldier who has a stealth ship, c'mon) and we'd be chasing leads the entire game that reveal more and more about the Reapers and previous cycles, have an ambiguous relationship with Cerberus and TIM and ultimately find the key to stop the Reapers from harvesting us by somehow confronting them much like in the game, using the Citadel.
I just think the war element took up way too much of ME3 and then when you get to the finale the shift from military and heroic sacrifice to "space oddysey 2001 and sci-fi" comes pretty fucking suddenly. Overall ME3 felt like Independence Day in how jarring its juxtaposition of sci fi vs Military MURICA chest-beating it was and with that IMHO is where it got too "dark and depressing". Too much emphasis on heroic sacrifice for military honor and poetic justice instead of the core themes that Mass Effect was originally made with which was space-opera sci-fi, mysterious artifacts and alien friends embarking on adventures that reveal more about the IP.
And it's a shame because they're continuing even further into a direction that doesn't match the original tone of the series with Andromeda. It's gotten too fixated on realness and groundedness instead of vibrant and adventurous.
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