inherit
1224
0
3,686
nucleartech76
1,076
August 2016
nucleartech76
|
Post by nucleartech76 on Feb 22, 2017 15:34:50 GMT
I see my error now - I've been lazily misinterpreting this part in regards to guns with innate piercing and enemy armor DR. yeah, i do that mistake quit often too, penetration is really ... complicated Only if you're married and she's not liquored up.
|
|
inherit
265
0
Nov 15, 2024 18:18:41 GMT
12,048
Pounce de León
Praise the Justicat!
7,945
August 2016
catastrophy
caustic_agent
|
Post by Pounce de León on Feb 22, 2017 15:38:44 GMT
I see my error now - I've been lazily misinterpreting this part in regards to guns with innate piercing and enemy armor DR. yeah, i do that mistake quit often too, penetration is really ... complicated You're overthinking it. It basically happens by itself with reasonable level of lust.
|
|
inherit
603
0
16,422
Alfonsedode
3,525
August 2016
alfonsedode
Alfonsedode
|
Post by Alfonsedode on Feb 22, 2017 16:00:51 GMT
I thought guns with innate AP ignored armor DR? No, that's projectile weapons (except Krysae). Armor damage migitation applies to all hitscan weapons. Some of them have bonus against armor and some other have high damage-per-shot so they don't give a fxxk, of course. Krysae penetrate through armor with bonus and without mitigation, it s shield protection gate it doesnt go through AFAIK
|
|
inherit
603
0
16,422
Alfonsedode
3,525
August 2016
alfonsedode
Alfonsedode
|
Post by Alfonsedode on Feb 22, 2017 16:05:55 GMT
yeah, i do that mistake quit often too, penetration is really ... complicated Only if you're married and she's not liquored up. well long relationship + kids do the trick tooor if you are liquored up too, would that be next morning.
|
|
inherit
1508
0
6,773
Nightman
" A wise man once said, forgiveness is divine but never pay full price for a late pizza. "
1,841
Sept 8, 2016 22:23:49 GMT
September 2016
dayman
Mass Effect Trilogy, Mass Effect Andromeda
Kaiju Sozay
|
Post by Nightman on Feb 22, 2017 18:36:44 GMT
So warp 4 really is the best?! Wow. It seemed to good to be true. Thanks for the info. /Thread. Umm... AP IV is best always pretty much. Not really. Do a Harrier test. Try against armored bosses...do one with AP4 ammo ..then do one with with the ap mod on the Harrier with Warp 4. You will notice the Warp 4 eats thru that target faster.
|
|
inherit
1224
0
3,686
nucleartech76
1,076
August 2016
nucleartech76
|
Post by nucleartech76 on Feb 22, 2017 20:34:47 GMT
Umm... AP IV is best always pretty much. Not really. Do a Harrier test. Try against armored bosses...do one with AP4 ammo ..then do one with with the ap mod on the Harrier with Warp 4. You will notice the Warp 4 eats thru that target faster. Are we talking with a biotic primer or no? Also what is your mods on the harrier? Specific boss type? Are you exploiting double hits on praetorians, banshees and atlases?
|
|
inherit
1508
0
6,773
Nightman
" A wise man once said, forgiveness is divine but never pay full price for a late pizza. "
1,841
Sept 8, 2016 22:23:49 GMT
September 2016
dayman
Mass Effect Trilogy, Mass Effect Andromeda
Kaiju Sozay
|
Post by Nightman on Feb 22, 2017 20:38:21 GMT
Not really. Do a Harrier test. Try against armored bosses...do one with AP4 ammo ..then do one with with the ap mod on the Harrier with Warp 4. You will notice the Warp 4 eats thru that target faster. Are we talking with a biotic primer or no? Also what is your mods on the harrier? Specific boss type? Are you exploiting double hits on praetorians, banshees and atlases? No power usage at all. Just shooting. take a gold brute or scion cuz its the fastest way to tell the differences cuz no shields/barriers to strip. ext mag, regular ap mod. head-shot/ hit boxes or not...Warp 4 causes the most damage. but then again you can also argue...what gear are you using? what character is this with? Did you build the character for pure weapons damage? Are you using powers that boost weapon damage? and so on....... I am talking in pure raw damage output.....take a harrier with ext mag and regular ap mod..put on Warp 4 and just shoot. Warp 4 causes more damage faster.
|
|
inherit
115
0
2,714
capn233
1,708
August 2016
capn233
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by capn233 on Feb 23, 2017 0:28:28 GMT
Without mag you will be reloading more frequently, which does drop average DPS.
Let's assume vanilla human with all weapon damage passive, Harrier X.
Sustained DPS Warp IV ammo, EB, AR Piercing
Health 1935 Shields 1391 Barriers 2486 Armor 1933
Sustained DPS AP IV, EB, Mag
Health 2055 Shields 1552 Barriers 1552 Armor 2016
You only have higher sustained DPS vs barriers, not necessarily all targets with barriers since the AP setup is ahead when you get to the health or armor. Additionally you are giving up full damage double hits to targets like the Atlas, which is certainly non-trivial.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Deleted
inherit
guest@proboards.com
1692
0
Nov 25, 2024 12:22:25 GMT
Deleted
0
Nov 25, 2024 12:22:25 GMT
January 1970
Deleted
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2017 0:49:17 GMT
My guess is unless you're Incindiary glitching, APIV. I guess you could make a claim for WarpIV, depending on weapon and how often enemies are primed. For weapons like Javelin & Widow, always Phasic. This
|
|
inherit
1224
0
3,686
nucleartech76
1,076
August 2016
nucleartech76
|
Post by nucleartech76 on Feb 23, 2017 0:51:24 GMT
Without mag you will be reloading more frequently, which does drop average DPS. Let's assume vanilla human with all weapon damage passive, Harrier X. Sustained DPS Warp IV ammo, EB, AR Piercing Health 1935 Shields 1391 Barriers 2486 Armor 1933 Sustained DPS AP IV, EB, Mag Health 2055 Shields 1552 Barriers 1552 Armor 2016 You only have higher sustained DPS vs barriers, not necessarily all targets with barriers since the AP setup is ahead when you get to the health or armor. Additionally you are giving up full damage double hits to targets like the Atlas, which is certainly non-trivial. Thank god. Someone did the maths. Lol. I knew there was no way in hell. Primed targets yeah the damage is awesome with warp. TTK is going to be significantly lower on most targets with AP. Biotics might have a case on primed targets with a different weapon setup other than dark channel users but the original question was what ammo for the typhoon on a destroyer. That's all day going to be AP ammo for almost every enemy type.
|
|
inherit
ღ Twelfth Level Geek
139
0
8,915
Jeremiah12LGeek
Mostly silly, occasionally useful.
3,001
August 2016
jeremiah12thlvlgeek
Bottom
|
Post by Jeremiah12LGeek on Feb 23, 2017 1:10:47 GMT
A deeply biting remark.
Edit: Apparently Ian Zeiring jokes have especially deep penetration. Maybe try that, too. O.o
|
|
inherit
1508
0
6,773
Nightman
" A wise man once said, forgiveness is divine but never pay full price for a late pizza. "
1,841
Sept 8, 2016 22:23:49 GMT
September 2016
dayman
Mass Effect Trilogy, Mass Effect Andromeda
Kaiju Sozay
|
Post by Nightman on Feb 23, 2017 1:18:55 GMT
Without mag you will be reloading more frequently, which does drop average DPS. Let's assume vanilla human with all weapon damage passive, Harrier X. Sustained DPS Warp IV ammo, EB, AR Piercing Health 1935 Shields 1391 Barriers 2486 Armor 1933 Sustained DPS AP IV, EB, Mag Health 2055 Shields 1552 Barriers 1552 Armor 2016 You only have higher sustained DPS vs barriers, not necessarily all targets with barriers since the AP setup is ahead when you get to the health or armor. Additionally you are giving up full damage double hits to targets like the Atlas, which is certainly non-trivial. I would love to see a side by side video comparison. So the warp ammo will chew thru the barrier/shields much faster allowing you to get to the armor/health quicker and begin whittling that away and the AP setup would still be going thru the barrier/shields as the other setup is already hitting the armor/health layer....which means warp 4 wont kill it faster? How does that work? Perhaps it was as stated earlier.....1 setup might be more effective versus say a praetorian than the other..and the other might kill an atlas faster versus the other. What this seems to tell me...is Warp 4 ammo setups are better against Collectors and Reapers and AP 4 setups are better versus Cerberus and Geth.
|
|
inherit
ღ Twelfth Level Geek
139
0
8,915
Jeremiah12LGeek
Mostly silly, occasionally useful.
3,001
August 2016
jeremiah12thlvlgeek
Bottom
|
Post by Jeremiah12LGeek on Feb 23, 2017 1:22:12 GMT
It's funny, but I actually don't really think in terms of damage output when choosing ammo. I mean I do, but mostly as a secondary function of whatever overall thing I'm doing. AP ammo is very common on a lot of my builds just because the gun mods are dedicated to things like melee or power damage.
But yeah, Warp Ammo probably makes most sense. It's responsible for a lot of my Justicar's weapon damage output.
|
|
inherit
1508
0
6,773
Nightman
" A wise man once said, forgiveness is divine but never pay full price for a late pizza. "
1,841
Sept 8, 2016 22:23:49 GMT
September 2016
dayman
Mass Effect Trilogy, Mass Effect Andromeda
Kaiju Sozay
|
Post by Nightman on Feb 23, 2017 1:27:21 GMT
I dont really think of the ammo in terms of what DPS I am trying to accomplish or think of numbers ever actually.......I use them for what I am going for in terms of fire splosions, tech bursts....I dont really use AP rounds cuz I am someone who uses the ap mods often and I like drill rounds more cuz of wall hax.
|
|
inherit
115
0
2,714
capn233
1,708
August 2016
capn233
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by capn233 on Feb 23, 2017 2:49:59 GMT
Without mag you will be reloading more frequently, which does drop average DPS. Let's assume vanilla human with all weapon damage passive, Harrier X. Sustained DPS Warp IV ammo, EB, AR Piercing Health 1935 Shields 1391 Barriers 2486 Armor 1933 Sustained DPS AP IV, EB, Mag Health 2055 Shields 1552 Barriers 1552 Armor 2016 You only have higher sustained DPS vs barriers, not necessarily all targets with barriers since the AP setup is ahead when you get to the health or armor. Additionally you are giving up full damage double hits to targets like the Atlas, which is certainly non-trivial. I would love to see a side by side video comparison. So the warp ammo will chew thru the barrier/shields much faster allowing you to ... The WA setup does less DPS to shields since it has a 0x multiplier to them just like AP ammo, but has to reload more often and as such sustained DPS suffers. It is further behind on Atlas shields where the AP setup is getting full damage double hits.
|
|
inherit
1224
0
3,686
nucleartech76
1,076
August 2016
nucleartech76
|
Post by nucleartech76 on Feb 23, 2017 2:51:17 GMT
Without mag you will be reloading more frequently, which does drop average DPS. Let's assume vanilla human with all weapon damage passive, Harrier X. Sustained DPS Warp IV ammo, EB, AR Piercing Health 1935 Shields 1391 Barriers 2486 Armor 1933 Sustained DPS AP IV, EB, Mag Health 2055 Shields 1552 Barriers 1552 Armor 2016 You only have higher sustained DPS vs barriers, not necessarily all targets with barriers since the AP setup is ahead when you get to the health or armor. Additionally you are giving up full damage double hits to targets like the Atlas, which is certainly non-trivial. I would love to see a side by side video comparison. So the warp ammo will chew thru the barrier/shields much faster allowing you to get to the armor/health quicker and begin whittling that away and the AP setup would still be going thru the barrier/shields as the other setup is already hitting the armor/health layer....which means warp 4 wont kill it faster? How does that work? Perhaps it was as stated earlier.....1 setup might be more effective versus say a praetorian than the other..and the other might kill an atlas faster versus the other. What this seems to tell me...is Warp 4 ammo setups are better against Collectors and Reapers and AP 4 setups are better versus Cerberus and Geth. AP is better against shields, health, and armor. Warp is better against barriers when not considering phantoms, banshees, and praetorians have multi hits that can be exploited. I'm sure capn could tell you how much theoretical damage is left off due to mitigation after sundering factor, quite frankly likely to be significant with low damage per shot weapons and trivial with high damage per shot weapons and more significant if you're not an overly accurate player and are hitting more body shots than brushing the head consistently. Of course I'm drunk as hell so I can't be bothered to think about this shit anymore.
|
|
inherit
1508
0
6,773
Nightman
" A wise man once said, forgiveness is divine but never pay full price for a late pizza. "
1,841
Sept 8, 2016 22:23:49 GMT
September 2016
dayman
Mass Effect Trilogy, Mass Effect Andromeda
Kaiju Sozay
|
Post by Nightman on Feb 23, 2017 2:58:34 GMT
I would love to see a side by side video comparison. So the warp ammo will chew thru the barrier/shields much faster allowing you to ... The WA setup does less DPS to shields since it has a 0x multiplier to them just like AP ammo, but has to reload more often and as such sustained DPS suffers. It is further behind on Atlas shields where the AP setup is getting full damage double hits. I just said that in the above post. I think the Warp 4 setup is more effective against Collectors and Reapers cuz of the barrier damage and that the AP4 setup is better against Cerberus & Geth cuz of shields.
|
|
inherit
1508
0
6,773
Nightman
" A wise man once said, forgiveness is divine but never pay full price for a late pizza. "
1,841
Sept 8, 2016 22:23:49 GMT
September 2016
dayman
Mass Effect Trilogy, Mass Effect Andromeda
Kaiju Sozay
|
Post by Nightman on Feb 23, 2017 3:01:35 GMT
I would love to see a side by side video comparison. So the warp ammo will chew thru the barrier/shields much faster allowing you to get to the armor/health quicker and begin whittling that away and the AP setup would still be going thru the barrier/shields as the other setup is already hitting the armor/health layer....which means warp 4 wont kill it faster? How does that work? Perhaps it was as stated earlier.....1 setup might be more effective versus say a praetorian than the other..and the other might kill an atlas faster versus the other. What this seems to tell me...is Warp 4 ammo setups are better against Collectors and Reapers and AP 4 setups are better versus Cerberus and Geth. AP is better against shields, health, and armor. Warp is better against barriers when not considering phantoms, banshees, and praetorians have multi hits that can be exploited. Is exactly what I said in the quote you quoted. Warp 4 setup is more effective against Collectors & Reapers cuz of the damage to barriers and AP 4 setup is more effective against Cerberus & Geth cuz of the shields damage.
|
|
inherit
1224
0
3,686
nucleartech76
1,076
August 2016
nucleartech76
|
Post by nucleartech76 on Feb 23, 2017 3:25:09 GMT
AP is better against shields, health, and armor. Warp is better against barriers when not considering phantoms, banshees, and praetorians have multi hits that can be exploited. Is exactly what I said in the quote you quoted. Warp 4 setup is more effective against Collectors & Reapers cuz of the damage to barriers and AP 4 setup is more effective against Cerberus & Geth cuz of the shields damage. Meh, not really. AP is going to take down cannibals, marauders, ravagers, brutes, faster, banshees are going to be dependent on if you're hitting multi hits. Collectors yeah probably but multi hits are going to narrow the advantage. I'm hoping this isn't coming off as dickish BC sometimes I do.
|
|
inherit
115
0
2,714
capn233
1,708
August 2016
capn233
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by capn233 on Feb 24, 2017 0:44:55 GMT
The WA setup does less DPS to shields since it has a 0x multiplier to them just like AP ammo, but has to reload more often and as such sustained DPS suffers. It is further behind on Atlas shields where the AP setup is getting full damage double hits. I just said that in the above post. I think the Warp 4 setup is more effective against Collectors and Reapers cuz of the barrier damage and that the AP4 setup is better against Cerberus & Geth cuz of shields. Not to get to sidetracked, but it looked like you lumped shield damage in with barrier damage in that post, which is why I quoted it and stated the WA multiplier was 0x to shields.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Deleted
inherit
guest@proboards.com
801
0
Nov 25, 2024 12:22:25 GMT
Deleted
0
Nov 25, 2024 12:22:25 GMT
January 1970
Deleted
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 24, 2017 17:55:18 GMT
This is still going?
AP and extended barrel wins out on the vast majority of kits. Especially with ramp up weapons. Warp ammo on select biotic characters with HVB barrels.
The exception (on PSN specifically due to a few factors) is a GI / Hurricane with HVB and warp ammo. This has the fastest clear times for UUG matches. I could write a novel on why this is specifically the best build (on PSN) for the GI / Hurricane, but I won't. Suffice to say the x0 vs shields is irrelevant to all but the Atlas, which you save for the end of the wave anyways and is about as threatening as a turtle on it's back.
On PSN, this set up loses shots between frames, and the damage being done to the target doesn't display as fast as you are registering it, so you need to figure out when to stop before all the defense values are gone, and not be wasting the time. Off host this can be tricky, on host much more reliable.
For double hits, you can reliably assume, Atlases, Ravagers and Scions. Occasionally on Phantoms and once in a blue moon on Banshees. For the GI, who cares. Ravagers die almost as fast as you shoot at them, and Banshees and Phantoms have a decent amount of barriers which are rendered so much faster. TTK on those two enemies is faster than with AP ammo. Atlases and Scions do take longer, but again, i save those enemies for last.
In short, GI / Hurricane / HVB / WA is certainly more effective vs Reapers and Collectors, is roughly a wash vs Cerberus and is slightly slower against the Geth.
|
|
inherit
ღ Twelfth Level Geek
139
0
8,915
Jeremiah12LGeek
Mostly silly, occasionally useful.
3,001
August 2016
jeremiah12thlvlgeek
Bottom
|
Post by Jeremiah12LGeek on Feb 25, 2017 14:00:09 GMT
My cat's breath smells like cat food. O.O
|
|
inherit
974
0
2,871
patrickbateman
571
August 2016
patrickbateman
|
Post by patrickbateman on Feb 26, 2017 0:30:55 GMT
AP is better against shields, health, and armor. Warp is better against barriers when not considering phantoms, banshees, and praetorians have multi hits that can be exploited. Is exactly what I said in the quote you quoted. Warp 4 setup is more effective against Collectors & Reapers cuz of the damage to barriers and AP 4 setup is more effective against Cerberus & Geth cuz of the shields damage. Well no, extended barrel with AP IV will always be the best set-up for the Harrier, the piercing mod isn't that great for ARs, sure there are a lot of armored targets and barriers on Gold, but if you bring something as OP as the Harrier to Gold you're just as much a scrub as the plebs that use the Reegar.
|
|
inherit
1508
0
6,773
Nightman
" A wise man once said, forgiveness is divine but never pay full price for a late pizza. "
1,841
Sept 8, 2016 22:23:49 GMT
September 2016
dayman
Mass Effect Trilogy, Mass Effect Andromeda
Kaiju Sozay
|
Post by Nightman on Feb 26, 2017 0:40:23 GMT
Is exactly what I said in the quote you quoted. Warp 4 setup is more effective against Collectors & Reapers cuz of the damage to barriers and AP 4 setup is more effective against Cerberus & Geth cuz of the shields damage. Well no, extended barrel with AP IV will always be the best set-up for the Harrier, the piercing mod isn't that great for ARs, sure there are a lot of armored targets and barriers on Gold, but if you bring something as OP as the Harrier to Gold you're just as much a scrub as the plebs that use the Reegar. * goes to find Paul Allen's card * I finally know why the PC players talk about the Reegar....Last night I ran into my 1st Edi w incid reegar.......it was fucking ridiculous. The console reegar does like half that damage. I also sent you a friend request on origin buddy. Are you back playing yet?
|
|
inherit
974
0
2,871
patrickbateman
571
August 2016
patrickbateman
|
Post by patrickbateman on Feb 26, 2017 9:29:35 GMT
Well no, extended barrel with AP IV will always be the best set-up for the Harrier, the piercing mod isn't that great for ARs, sure there are a lot of armored targets and barriers on Gold, but if you bring something as OP as the Harrier to Gold you're just as much a scrub as the plebs that use the Reegar. * goes to find Paul Allen's card * I finally know why the PC players talk about the Reegar....Last night I ran into my 1st Edi w incid reegar.......it was fucking ridiculous. The console reegar does like half that damage. I also sent you a friend request on origin buddy. Are you back playing yet? A bit here and there, not as much as I used to but let's play a few games if we are online at the same time.
|
|