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Post by Deleted on Feb 15, 2017 13:34:10 GMT
Interesting thoughts, neocodex! I'm no expert on this, but considering all of the infos on ammo types and their special effects I'd say Disruptor Ammo only really makes sense when taking the extra shield/barrier damage from thusly primed Tech Bursts into account.
Assault Rifle HVB in my opinion would make most sense when combined with Incendiary Ammo and Magazine Upgrade, preferably on a kit with the capability to detonate Fire Explosions.
On a sidenote: Can the Typhoon actually pierce f.e. Guardian Shields on its own when equipped with Warp Ammo? Or would one need the AP mod then? I love playing the Typhoon on a Weapons Platform Build of the Krogan Shaman, but am conflicted with the choice of ammo and mods. Warp Ammo would make most sense in that case because the Shaman has Warp to prime targets, so should I go with Magazine Upgrade and Extended Barrel on the Typhoon or would AP Mod + Extended Barrel be a better choice overall?
For the Destroyer, I also think that Magazine Upgrade and Extended Barrel combined with AP IV would be the optimal choice. On the Crusader you could go with both piercing mods and Warp Ammo for the greatest possible raw dmg output, I think. Otherwise, Spare Ammo and HVB + AP IV.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 15, 2017 18:43:19 GMT
I haven't read all the posts, but the flat out answer is either AP IV with extended barrels, or Warp IV on biotic kits with HVB (AP) barrels.
As an exception to this rule, the GI / Hurricane with HVB is best with warp VI ammo
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Post by capn233 on Feb 16, 2017 2:58:28 GMT
ok, I dug up this post from numerical tests, some surprising stuff! bsn.boards.net/thread/1800/numerical-tests-thread-corlists-consumableStatistics Concluding the weirdest things: - AP ammo does +50% damage to health as well; - He must have forgotten to mention that warp only does bonus damage if target was primed? - Incindiary works against health and armor only! No extra damage against shields and barriers, doesn't seem so good now anymore. - Disruptor does +100% damage vs shields and barriers and +25% vs health. This seems pretty strong actually. Ingame it only says +25% damage but that's against health. On tests it did +100% vs shields and barriers. I'm thinking AP barrel + disruptor ammo could be an actual legitimate option. With this setup you have a very strong all-around defenses bypass, doing high damage to everything you shoot at. And might probably be the best choice if you're running modded enemies with buffed shields and barriers. You lose +50% extra damage against armor, altough you keep the 90% penetration but you just melt everything else + potential tech bursts.
This might be not true, he states +100% damage in the premise but below in the tests there is this part: Can someone confirm this? Keeping this part: It would be a pretty solid choice to complement your team picks with disruptor ammo (note: IF it really does bonus damage against shields/barriers) if they're running mostly AP stuff, unless they're going for biotic combos. I'd consider warp in this case, but considering from the tests warp has no effect against shields, even if primed. Just as incindiary has no effect against shields and barriers - worth remembering. That ammo test thread was originally created at the release of level 4 ammos, so the point was to find the base bonus. 1. AP does its bonus damage to health and armor. Incendiary does as well. 2. Warp IV ammo does 60% damage to unprimed health and armor, and 120% to unprimed barriers as it has a 2x barrier multiplier. It does twice as much than above if target is primed. 3. Incendiary does have 0x multiplier to shields and barriers... until it is rolled into other fire DOT like Warp or Inferno Grenade at which point it inherits the multipliers of those powers. 4. Disruptor ammo has a 4x multiplier to shields and barriers ever since one of the patches. |
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Post by Nightman on Feb 16, 2017 3:15:42 GMT
Warp 4.
/Thread.
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Post by neocodex and 23 others on Feb 16, 2017 7:51:15 GMT
So warp 4 really is the best?! Wow. It seemed to good to be true. Thanks for the info.
/Thread.
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Post by nucleartech76 on Feb 16, 2017 16:57:02 GMT
So warp 4 really is the best?! Wow. It seemed to good to be true. Thanks for the info. /Thread. Umm... AP IV is best always pretty much. |
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Post by crashsuit on Feb 16, 2017 18:56:05 GMT
I used to use Polonium once in a while in pugs til I found out Polonium IV only works on host, mgamerz plz
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Post by budhalen on Feb 16, 2017 20:45:07 GMT
On a sidenote: Can the Typhoon actually pierce f.e. Guardian Shields on its own when equipped with Warp Ammo? Or would one need the AP mod then? I love playing the Typhoon on a Weapons Platform Build of the Krogan Shaman, but am conflicted with the choice of ammo and mods. Warp Ammo would make most sense in that case because the Shaman has Warp to prime targets, so should I go with Magazine Upgrade and Extended Barrel on the Typhoon or would AP Mod + Extended Barrel be a better choice overall? Typhoon does have penetration capability of 0.25m itself, so that should be enough to go through a guardian's shield. I honestly never use that weapon, so I can't verify. As this thread has taught me, weapons with innate penetration do not suffer armor damage penalties. So the Typhoon won't experience that 50-pt armor damage penalty per round regardless. Warp IV would help with that anyway by weakening armor 65%...even without the innate penetration benefit. Since the Shaman can prime targets with a Warp biotic (as you mentioned), it would seem Warp IV would be the way to go. Just missing out on potential double (or even triple?) hits that the extra 1.5 m penetration gives you from AP IV. I'd go Warp IV with mag+EB mods |
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Post by budhalen on Feb 16, 2017 21:23:52 GMT
That ammo test thread was originally created at the release of level 4 ammos, so the point was to find the base bonus. 1. AP does its bonus damage to health and armor. Incendiary does as well. 2. Warp IV ammo does 60% damage to unprimed health and armor, and 120% to unprimed barriers as it has a 2x barrier multiplier. It does twice as much than above if target is primed.3. Incendiary does have 0x multiplier to shields and barriers... until it is rolled into other fire DOT like Warp or Inferno Grenade at which point it inherits the multipliers of those powers. 4. Disruptor ammo has a 4x multiplier to shields and barriers ever since one of the patches. If I may clarify... So the claimed 100% damage bonus for Warp IV vs primed targets results in: Health/armor (primed) Base + 2x(60%) = 220% damage Barrier (primed) Base + 2x(2x60%) = 340% damage |
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Post by capn233 on Feb 16, 2017 23:02:20 GMT
So warp 4 really is the best?! Wow. It seemed to good to be true. Thanks for the info. /Thread. Umm... AP IV is best always pretty much. Yes for most characters. As this thread has taught me, weapons with innate penetration do not suffer armor damage penalties. So the Typhoon won't experience that 50-pt armor damage penalty per round regardless.... No... weapons with innate cover penetration simply penetrate cover without a damage loss, even if you add a piercing mod. They still suffer from armor damage reduction, and as I explained earlier the Typhoon will lose a larger percentage of damage vs armor without armor piercing or weakening since it has an armor multiplier. |
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Post by crashsuit on Feb 16, 2017 23:04:43 GMT
I thought guns with innate AP ignored armor DR? No, that's projectile weapons (except Krysae). Armor damage migitation applies to all hitscan weapons. Some of them have bonus against armor and some other have high damage-per-shot so they don't give a fxxk, of course. On a sidenote: Can the Typhoon actually pierce f.e. Guardian Shields on its own when equipped with Warp Ammo? Or would one need the AP mod then? I love playing the Typhoon on a Weapons Platform Build of the Krogan Shaman, but am conflicted with the choice of ammo and mods. Warp Ammo would make most sense in that case because the Shaman has Warp to prime targets, so should I go with Magazine Upgrade and Extended Barrel on the Typhoon or would AP Mod + Extended Barrel be a better choice overall? Typhoon does have penetration capability of 0.25m itself, so that should be enough to go through a guardian's shield. I honestly never use that weapon, so I can't verify. As this thread has taught me, weapons with innate penetration do not suffer armor damage penalties. So the Typhoon won't experience that 50-pt armor damage penalty per round regardless. Warp IV would help with that anyway by weakening armor 65%...even without the innate penetration benefit. Since the Shaman can prime targets with a Warp biotic (as you mentioned), it would seem Warp IV would be the way to go. Just missing out on potential double (or even triple?) hits that the extra 1.5 m penetration gives you from AP IV. I'd go Warp IV with mag+EB mods Well I'm glad we worked that out |
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Post by capn233 on Feb 16, 2017 23:11:59 GMT
If I may clarify... So the claimed 100% damage bonus for Warp IV vs primed targets results in: Health/armor (primed) Base + 2x(60%) = 220% damage Barrier (primed) Base + 2x(2x60%) = 340% damage For health it would be 0.6 *(1+1) = 1.2 or 120%... which is twice as much as 60%... For barrier it is 0.6 *(1+1)*2 = 2.4 or 240% This is for Warp IV only since lower ranks have lower amount of primed bonus. I would have just multiquoted into the previous post, but wanted to find a copy of the original thread: fextralife.com/forums/t476493/warp-ammo-mechanics/ |
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Post by Terminator Force on Feb 17, 2017 0:10:58 GMT
I haven't read all the posts, but the flat out answer is either AP IV with extended barrels, or Warp IV on biotic kits with HVB (AP) barrels. As an exception to this rule, the GI / Hurricane with HVB is best with warp VI ammo I don't agree with that exception. SMG HVB has pitiful penetration distance. |
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Post by nucleartech76 on Feb 17, 2017 2:02:54 GMT
Ugh. I don't want to long post this shit but it's extended mag BC of extra "hot" shots, damage barrel BC more damage is of course awesome, and AP IV.
But damn look at warp ammos damage. Well you still give us some of that damage to armor mitigation, you're not going to get many multi hits nor collateral kills on mobs. So yeah warp ammo is better if you're a biotic with warp priming and you're not facing oh let's see anything with multi hits, a health bar, anything behind light cover, another enemy or has an armor bar. Warp gets close but no cookie if you know where the fuck to shoot most enemies for max damage. If you run the theoretical numbers without armor mitigation loss, with priming, and without considering multiple hits then yeah I can see the appeal but run both ammo types and you'll be converted. You're not going to be spamming primers and using the typhoon to the best of its ability either. Hopefully this doesn't come across dickish.
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Post by patrickbateman on Feb 18, 2017 9:19:58 GMT
Not that OP should rely on it using a Destroyer, but isn't the highest ammo damage technically Warp IV vs a biotically primed target? Depends a lot on which faction you play against, on Platinum Atlases have a ridiculous amount of shields that regenerate very quickly, even when primed with powers like reave you will barelly do any damage against their shields when using Warp rounds.
If you play against a faction with mainly armour and barriers, especially Reapers or Collectors then Warp rounds are the best if you use a kit with a biotic primer.
Overall though I'd say AP IV is the best ammo in the game as it increases weapon damage against everything with 50%.
For the Destroyer imo extended barrel and extended mag with AP IV is the best way to go when using the Typhoon.
If you prefer the PPR on the destroyer I'd recommend extended barrel/mag and AP IV as well, the high velocity barrel for ARs kind of suck as it don't give any damage boost, don't know what went through the heads of the beautiful minds at Biowar when they designed it as they decided to give the Shotgun Heavy barrel both peircing and damage, concidering that Shotguns are far superiour to assault rifles in this game.
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Post by crashsuit on Feb 21, 2017 0:39:17 GMT
Not that OP should rely on it using a Destroyer, but isn't the highest ammo damage technically Warp IV vs a biotically primed target? Depends a lot on which faction you play against, on Platinum Atlases have a ridiculous amount of shields that regenerate very quickly, even when primed with powers like reave you will barelly do any damage against their shields when using Warp rounds.
If you play against a faction with mainly armour and barriers, especially Reapers or Collectors then Warp rounds are the best if you use a kit with a biotic primer.
Overall though I'd say AP IV is the best ammo in the game as it increases weapon damage against everything with 50%.
For the Destroyer imo extended barrel and extended mag with AP IV is the best way to go when using the Typhoon.
If you prefer the PPR on the destroyer I'd recommend extended barrel/mag and AP IV as well, the high velocity barrel for ARs kind of suck as it don't give any damage boost, don't know what went through the heads of the beautiful minds at Biowar when they designed it as they decided to give the Shotgun Heavy barrel both peircing and damage, concidering that Shotguns are far superiour to assault rifles in this game.
Oof, and how about SMGs not being able to use damage and piercing mods at the same time? That one really grinds my gears. |
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Post by nucleartech76 on Feb 21, 2017 2:45:13 GMT
Not that OP should rely on it using a Destroyer, but isn't the highest ammo damage technically Warp IV vs a biotically primed target? Depends a lot on which faction you play against, on Platinum Atlases have a ridiculous amount of shields that regenerate very quickly, even when primed with powers like reave you will barelly do any damage against their shields when using Warp rounds.
If you play against a faction with mainly armour and barriers, especially Reapers or Collectors then Warp rounds are the best if you use a kit with a biotic primer.
Overall though I'd say AP IV is the best ammo in the game as it increases weapon damage against everything with 50%.
For the Destroyer imo extended barrel and extended mag with AP IV is the best way to go when using the Typhoon.
If you prefer the PPR on the destroyer I'd recommend extended barrel/mag and AP IV as well, the high velocity barrel for ARs kind of suck as it don't give any damage boost, don't know what went through the heads of the beautiful minds at Biowar when they designed it as they decided to give the Shotgun Heavy barrel both peircing and damage, concidering that Shotguns are far superiour to assault rifles in this game.
PPR and typhoon it's almost always going to be AP though. How much would you be coming out of ramp up to prime stuff? Powers with travel time too are trolled so much by combat rolls or power denial bubbles etc which even push other weapons towards AP and drill even with biotics. Not to mention the multi hits and synergy with geth scanner as well. Just my two cents though. On paper damage doesn't play out as superior in situational game play. |
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Post by patrickbateman on Feb 21, 2017 7:03:10 GMT
Depends a lot on which faction you play against, on Platinum Atlases have a ridiculous amount of shields that regenerate very quickly, even when primed with powers like reave you will barelly do any damage against their shields when using Warp rounds.
If you play against a faction with mainly armour and barriers, especially Reapers or Collectors then Warp rounds are the best if you use a kit with a biotic primer.
Overall though I'd say AP IV is the best ammo in the game as it increases weapon damage against everything with 50%.
For the Destroyer imo extended barrel and extended mag with AP IV is the best way to go when using the Typhoon.
If you prefer the PPR on the destroyer I'd recommend extended barrel/mag and AP IV as well, the high velocity barrel for ARs kind of suck as it don't give any damage boost, don't know what went through the heads of the beautiful minds at Biowar when they designed it as they decided to give the Shotgun Heavy barrel both peircing and damage, concidering that Shotguns are far superiour to assault rifles in this game.
PPR and typhoon it's almost always going to be AP though. How much would you be coming out of ramp up to prime stuff? Powers with travel time too are trolled so much by combat rolls or power denial bubbles etc which even push other weapons towards AP and drill even with biotics. Not to mention the multi hits and synergy with geth scanner as well. Just my two cents though. On paper damage doesn't play out as superior in situational game play. True, in most cases AP will come out on top, especially when using the PPR, a few exceptions come to mind though like the Collector Adept and the Asari Huntress. The Justicar ain't to bad either with the PPR, sure you can't spam Reave to stack it but with it's long duration it works pretty well with the PPR. |
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Post by capn233 on Feb 22, 2017 2:27:52 GMT
I agree with above. It largely depends on if you have a kit that has a good AOE or multitarget primer, and then partly on faction. The Dark Channel characters are a good example since you can just go from one to another while the PPR or Typhoon is hot.
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Post by Sentinel2010 on Feb 22, 2017 5:47:21 GMT
True, in most cases AP will come out on top, especially when using the PPR, a few exceptions come to mind though like the Collector Adept and the Asari Huntress. The Justicar ain't to bad either with the PPR, sure you can't spam Reave to stack it but with it's long duration it works pretty well with the PPR. So AP w/ EB on PPR is better then Incendiary w/HVB? I need to try it. |
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Post by patrickbateman on Feb 22, 2017 6:03:32 GMT
True, in most cases AP will come out on top, especially when using the PPR, a few exceptions come to mind though like the Collector Adept and the Asari Huntress. The Justicar ain't to bad either with the PPR, sure you can't spam Reave to stack it but with it's long duration it works pretty well with the PPR. So AP w/ EB on PPR is better then Incendiary w/HVB? I need to try it. In my experience yes, I never use the heavy barrel on any AR since a while back. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2017 9:24:25 GMT
True, in most cases AP will come out on top, especially when using the PPR, a few exceptions come to mind though like the Collector Adept and the Asari Huntress. The Justicar ain't to bad either with the PPR, sure you can't spam Reave to stack it but with it's long duration it works pretty well with the PPR. So AP w/ EB on PPR is better then Incendiary w/HVB? I need to try it. Yes. PPR with HVB and incendiary is too weak against shields and barriers. In my memory, you can't one-clip kill a platinum Atlas with HVB and incendiary with a PPR Destroyer, while it's possible with EB + AP. As others said, using the HVB assault rifle + incendiary or Warp is valuable only if you use the incendiary glitch or a good biotic primer (and I'm not even sure about the last one, depending on the faction). |
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Post by Pounce de León on Feb 22, 2017 10:16:26 GMT
Warp has best damage, imo. But AP allows for more time on target (cover pierce, double hits). A matter of mood for me.
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Post by Alfonsedode on Feb 22, 2017 15:24:00 GMT
sperm ?
oups wrong forum sorry
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Post by Alfonsedode on Feb 22, 2017 15:27:38 GMT
I see my error now - I've been lazily misinterpreting this part in regards to guns with innate piercing and enemy armor DR. yeah, i do that mistake quit often too, penetration is really ... complicated |
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