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Post by Element Zero on Feb 16, 2017 18:02:25 GMT
One thing that always kills ME3 for me is its pacing. This has been on my mind a lot, lately, as I try to occupy my free time leading up to H:ZD and MEA. ME3 had fun combat sequences, for me, but the interaction wasn't nearly as varied and up to par. More importantly, it was all clumped together in zones like the Citadel. Even when I want to sit down and enjoy some ME3 SP combat, I'm dissuaded by the prospect of the lengthy "Citadel slogs", in which one does all of the game's poorly developed roleplaying (lots of eavesdropping). I'm a little confused by this. If you don't want to listen in on the Citadel ambient conversations (whether mission-related or just background), why do it? I liked having an optional change of pace available, and it was wholly under my control. You do have to get the turn-in convos at some point if you want the WAs and Rep points, of course.This is why I have to cruise past the eavesdropping points. I don't stand around and listen. I only stay long enough to trigger the quest. My main gripe is that nearly all of ME3's RP is corralled into the hub. ME2 would've had a similar issue, if not for its excellent loyalty missions. With the addition of new areas comes the need for more RP content in these areas. They never got his down, after two attempts, giving us only combat to fill side mission zones. I hope they widen their perspective in MEA.
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swagmaster97
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Post by swagmaster97 on Feb 16, 2017 18:06:43 GMT
What is most important? That it is fun of course!
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Post by KaiserShep on Feb 16, 2017 18:09:13 GMT
I liked how ME1 initiated side quests. You could actively discover some things by snooping on terminals or listen in on a news feed aside from passing NPC's by.
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_Wolf Rider_
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Hey Bioware, #SavetheQuarians
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by _Wolf Rider_ on Feb 16, 2017 18:34:28 GMT
I liked how ME1 initiated side quests. You could actively discover some things by snooping on terminals or listen in on a news feed aside from passing NPC's by. Those self initiated side quests were fun and just done right in ME1, want to see self initiated quests done again and added to MEA in someway.
I'm just going to come out and say I'm a little curious about MEA's main story and separate quest line that revolves around the unknown Archon.
I'm hoping MEA's storylines are done right. The stories themselves being engaging, having meaningful choices and are just told at a good pacing.
- Wolf
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Post by traks on Feb 16, 2017 18:44:54 GMT
First and foremost in a Mass Effect game that presumably focuses on exploration I need wonder and excitement. The story in Andromeda has to offer that and I hope overall that the story in Andromeda will be an exciting adventure with lots of "wow" moments experiencing the vastness of space. A good reason to go to Andromeda as the starting point (so far sadly it doesn't look likely) would be the icing on the cake.
I have no worries about gameplay and characters because of the trilogy, so the story is what has to be right.
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Post by Iakus on Feb 16, 2017 18:56:06 GMT
Well, since "We're really really sorry about Mass Effect 3" being in the opening credits of MEA is unlikely to happen....
What it really needs to get right is clearly the story. It needs to explain the how and why of the Andromeda Project in a way that it logically links up with the Mass Effect setting with minimal handwaving.
It also needs to create a better story (better than ME3 was, certainly) that is both immersive and reactive to the player.
And most of all, an ending that's not a total cop-out. Something the player feels like they've earned rather than had pushed on them.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 16, 2017 19:39:55 GMT
Also to add to what I said above, I really just want them to get the RPG element right this time and as element zero said, the spacing of the RPG elements. I'm really liking the fact that there are some bosses that we come across and won't be able to defeat. I'm hoping there are entire planets that are too difficult at first until we level up enough. I think ME3 is a perfect example of devs being overly heavy-handed in the meting out of content, particularly wrt systems not being accessible / not showing up on the map until they decide to make them available. It means that (assuming you want to complete the scanning for stuff content) you have to be constantly reviewing the map to see if any new systems have opened up, and make sure you turn in those fetch quests before you do the next major Priority mission, lest you miss the opportunity. I'd rather do all of the scanning in one go, even if the NPC wanting the item doesn't show up until later. That level of enforced pacing frustrates me to this day.
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Post by alanc9 on Feb 16, 2017 20:08:02 GMT
This is why I have to cruise past the eavesdropping points. I don't stand around and listen. I only stay long enough to trigger the quest. Oh, dear.... I guess you never noticed that you don't need to do that?
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Post by projectpatdc on Feb 16, 2017 20:13:09 GMT
Serious question, is space gwent a perfectly viable answer? Because I'll change mine if it is.
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Post by Element Zero on Feb 16, 2017 20:16:23 GMT
This is why I have to cruise past the eavesdropping points. I don't stand around and listen. I only stay long enough to trigger the quest. Oh, dear.... I guess you never noticed that you don't need to do that? It's a sick compulsion, in a way, I guess. I'm there anyway, for my dose of segregated RP. I know I can just go fetch the stuff and bring it directly to the loitering NPCs. Again, that's the main issue I was discussing, the RP point. The eaves-dropping fetch quest issue is a separate issue entirely.
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Solona Amell
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Post by Elsariel on Feb 16, 2017 20:20:06 GMT
For me? Engaging story, characters, and a wide variety of RP choices. Replay-ability is also pretty huge for me. If you can suck me back in two or three times because there were things I missed the first time around, that's pretty awesome. Atmosphere is another one. Part of the reason why I keep booting up Skyrim even though I've played the hell out of it is because of the atmosphere and music of that game. I just love getting lost in that world.
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Post by alanc9 on Feb 16, 2017 20:57:42 GMT
It means that (assuming you want to complete the scanning for stuff content) you have to be constantly reviewing the map to see if any new systems have opened up, and make sure you turn in those fetch quests before you do the next major Priority mission, lest you miss the opportunity. I'd rather do all of the scanning in one go, even if the NPC wanting the item doesn't show up until later. That level of enforced pacing frustrates me to this day. Well, the only mission which actually cancels sidequests is Priority: The Citadel II, IIRC. But it's not great design to make a player scared of that.
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zaefkol
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Post by zaefkol on Feb 16, 2017 21:04:02 GMT
Obviously the sex scenes.
...But for serious, an engaging story with complex and complete characters.
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tjmitchem
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To the Archon! Face down, ass up.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem
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Post by tjmitchem on Feb 16, 2017 21:36:12 GMT
From looking at the responses in this thread, I can see that I'm way in the minority.
For me, the one thing they have to get right is combat. I love a good story, but I love shooting things (or blowing them up) even more.
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Post by ProbeAway on Feb 16, 2017 22:02:14 GMT
I personally find that statement to be false considering that in my experience for a companion to be good they have to be wrapped up in interesting events. ME2 worked because it culminated in the Suicide Mission so it feels like every character is in purgatory of sorts where they're contemplating their potentially final thoughts before knowing they might die tomorrow. In DA:I half the companions just join because they want to or for individual reasons that are self-contained and those one-offs aside they're just "likeable". A few are really good like Cassandra and Solas because their goals and aspirations are mutual to the main plot in one way or another just like in ME2 or ME1 where everyone is after Saren or somehow hurt by his actions or in ME3 where literally everyone are haunted by Reapers and their homeworlds are at stake. I found DA:I to be a dangerous downgrade in "good companions" to be honest. They're likeable but most of them are pure meandering as well, so I hope they made them better and not just one-off side-stories and that's it in Andromeda. They have the opportunity to make each companion represent species, the other Arks and the mutual experience of having fled or sought away from a previous galaxy. I agree. IMO there are two elements that need to be done well when it comes to the characters (including Ryder): the characters themselves need to be interesting, but they also need to be connected to the game world and the events that unfold within it. Bioware has almost always been excellent at the first aspect (although the characters in ME1 were a bit 2D). As you allude to, it's the second area where DAI fell down. Even DA2, for all of its criticisms, had some great connections between the characters and the story. From memory, only Fenris really stands out as a character that didn't have much impact story-wise. Everyone else shaped, or was shaped by, the world around them. So much so that it's probably my favourite game of the DA trilogy, in spite of its obvious flaws. I think the disconnect in DAI had a lot to do with the way the open areas and fetch quests felt very removed from the main storyline. If Bioware addresses that issue well in MEA then strong links between the characters and the game world will hopefully follow.
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Post by Link"Guess"ski on Feb 16, 2017 22:14:02 GMT
For as much as you can criticize DA2 it had Anders doing that... thing he does, it had Varric and how his relationships are affected by Red Lyrium which also affects the main threat in the game, you had Merrill who was an outcast who had to experience moving into one of the most oppressive cities in Ferelden, the game's setting, and you had Fenris being a slave from Tevinter in the midst of a trade into Kirkwall, all of it characterized the setting at the very least and reinforced the the laser-targeted focus of the game.
DA:I didn't really do that for me with most companions. DA:I mainly has The Inquisition, Orlais, Elves and Red Lyrium and Corybory as the focus, and they do cover Orlais and its focus with Vivienne and Josephine, Red Lyrium and Cory is tied to Varric because of Hawke and then there's Bull and Dorian who have something to do with Tevinter, foreshadowing where the plot is going next time, but I think it's the lack of drawn-out arcs for each companion and their lacklustre reasons or introductions to the Inquisition. It was so distracted because of the open-world elements like you say. That's also why I keep saying that I think ME:A has to prove BioWare can do companions as a focus in open world like ME:A becuase to me DA:I really didn't prove itself there.
Another reason why Witcher 3 is better despite not having companions, because that is in fact the thing it does so well. Geralt has friends that you meet as parts of the seperate subplots that are each tied to a particular region. You spend plenty of time with Yennefer, Triss, Zoltan, Dandelion and his new GF, the Skellige folks and that's a much better way of doing "companions" in open world than the way DA:I did it.
BioWare needs to figure out how to make the party-system work without turning it into aimless meandering, but I'm afraid they're getting complacent about it because Citadel DLC was a recipe for success. I think they must've been scratching their heads as to why Citadel DLC was so successful for almost every fan when DA:I wasn't despite focusing on companions in the same way.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 16, 2017 22:31:42 GMT
It means that (assuming you want to complete the scanning for stuff content) you have to be constantly reviewing the map to see if any new systems have opened up, and make sure you turn in those fetch quests before you do the next major Priority mission, lest you miss the opportunity. I'd rather do all of the scanning in one go, even if the NPC wanting the item doesn't show up until later. That level of enforced pacing frustrates me to this day. Well, the only mission which actually cancels sidequests is Priority: The Citadel II, IIRC. But it's not great design to make a player scared of that. Unless the wiki guide has a load of errors, various sidequests expire at different times throughout much of the game. Since I'm not terribly keen to keep track of them all, I sweep through everything available on the map and make the rounds at the Citadel immediately prior to initiating each of the major Priority missions. But I'd rather do all of the scanning and collecting in one go, even if the people who want the stuff aren't available yet. Not being able to see all of the systems on the map right away is just silly, imho.
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bohemiadrinker
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Post by bohemiadrinker on Feb 16, 2017 23:35:20 GMT
I think the density of the world is my main worry, right now.
So far, from everything I've seen, I just disliked 2 things - RyDude's default face and Default control scheme - both of which can be changed. The rest is looking good; I'' just don't wanna end up in an empty sandbox, is all.
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pianishimo
N2
"We are poised to rediscover what truly means to be human"
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by pianishimo on Feb 17, 2017 0:38:38 GMT
A complete story (beginning > middle > ending), charismatic characters who you can really empathize and a bunch of plot twists (please) should do the trick
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Post by Cirvante on Feb 17, 2017 1:12:48 GMT
Multiplayer.
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Post by Link"Guess"ski on Feb 17, 2017 1:26:35 GMT
Well, since "We're really really sorry about Mass Effect 3" being in the opening credits of MEA is unlikely to happen.... What it really needs to get right is clearly the story. It needs to explain the how and why of the Andromeda Project in a way that it logically links up with the Mass Effect setting with minimal handwaving. It also needs to create a better story (better than ME3 was, certainly) that is both immersive and reactive to the player. And most of all, an ending that's not a total cop-out. Something the player feels like they've earned rather than had pushed on them. As always BioWare probably prefers the "oh this got criticized? Let's address it by downplaying it next time, so they can't complain it's bad." Mako got complained, mako got cut. UNC got complained, UNC got cut Shepard is static brick in ME2 = Shepard is not your character in ME3 The environments are the same in DA2, The environments are wildly different in DA:I The story style is too weird in DA2, the story is generic hero journey in DA:I Ending sucked in ME3, ending is bland and forgettable in DA:I. Don't like Thessia and Kai Leng being forced on me in ME3 story, No forced emotional beats in ME:A? Ending sucked in ME3, ending will be safe in ME:A?
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Post by Madflavor on Feb 17, 2017 1:45:11 GMT
I honestly don't know how to answer this. On one hand, the bread and butter of Mass Effect is Story, so I would say it needs to have a fun and enjoyable story that gets people excited for the future of the series. But on the other hand, given the size of the game, I would also say it's Gameplay needs to be fun, and not get repetitive.
I really think this is a game that needs to succeed in all it's departments, it can't afford to have a weak link that's gonna drag the game down. Bioware's reputation has been really damaged these past few years, they need to knock this one out of the park. I'm not saying the game NEEDS to be fantastic or a 10/10, but it needs to be great. It doesn't have to revolutionize gaming, or set a new bar, it just needs to be a really fun game with an engaging story.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2017 1:47:23 GMT
DIY ME:A Checklist Single Player
- Women
- Hot Women
- Hot Slooty Women
- Hot Slooty Alien Women - Hot Slooty Alien Nymphomaniac Women Multiplayer - Flood servers with phone sex line girls posing as innocent yet flirtatious gamer girls
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Post by Link"Guess"ski on Feb 17, 2017 2:12:38 GMT
I honestly don't know how to answer this. On one hand, the bread and butter of Mass Effect is Story, so I would say it needs to have a fun and enjoyable story that gets people excited for the future of the series. But on the other hand, given the size of the game, I would also say it's Gameplay needs to be fun, and not get repetitive. I really think this is a game that needs to succeed in all it's departments, it can't afford to have a weak link that's gonna drag the game down. Bioware's reputation has been really damaged these past few years, they need to knock this one out of the park. I'm not saying the game NEEDS to be fantastic or a 10/10, but it needs to be great. It doesn't have to revolutionize gaming, or set a new bar, it just needs to be a really fun game with an engaging story. I don't expect this to be the "turnaround" people might have been waiting for since BioWare went downhill. I think this is another Mass Effect, hopefully a good one, but I'm putting my money on the new IP for the time being even if it's not RPG. I have not played a BioWare game since ME2 where I felt everything was the way it should be. I didn't mind the streamlining of elements of ME1 and personally I think ME2's story is fine as a standalone and as a minor continuation of the main arc and the game was very, very impressive to me back in 2010, graphically, systematically and in terms of gameplay. What ME2 did in my eyes was take what was so intriguing about ME1 but incorporate those ideas with more trendy ideas that I personally loved, and it put the game on par with titles like InFamous and Uncharted that I didn't expect to be drawing comparisons to with an RPG and it was so impressive to see decent to fantastic animation and realistic-looking characters in a game that had more than twice the cinematic content of an Uncharted or another action game, and really ME2 felt like the peak of what the gaming industry could offer and where gaming was going back in 2010 IMHO. I just don't think ME:A even has a chance of being that for 2017's AAA industry. I think it'll be a middling game but with elements you don't always see otherwise in most other AAA titles such as the extensive RPG-story mechanics coupled with action gameplay. Animation, graphics and gameplay-polish will not be impressive I don't think and sadly I think particularly the story will disappoint again. There's something about BioWare story-execution that has changed in the last 5 years I think and it only got worse between ME2, ME3 and DA:I. ME3 did have some wonderful plot-moments though. It just didn't feel like a good story at the end because of the ending IMO. It was the point where everything should've come together but it just started falling apart right from the end of the Cerberus HQ mission and then further and then suddenly everything took an even further nosedive in the very final scene. For the game after that, Dragon Age Inquisition, I just found there were absolutely flat attempts at executing on the story left and right all throughout. It's left me with very little comfort in the thought of Andromeda delivering a good tale as a whole. DA:I was full of cop outs and skips and meandering, and the emphasis on story was sometimes superceded by the attempt at just designing a game that was reliant on the game-systems and story was just an offspring of the game design rather than the opposite. That philosophy also applied to ME3 with how often the story needs to find excuses to throw you into combat. Every mission began with "Commander, we can't land there directly, you need to move in on foot!" and then you had a combat level. In ME2 you usually started with some dialogue or simply landed in an uncontested area full of mercenaries or Geth because you were in the terminus systems. I'll be somewhat impressed if ME:A at some point has one entire mission that is as long as the Halamshiral ball in DA:I where combat is 100% optional. But I've sort of given up here. That's why, if BioWare really thinks their games should be about having great gameplay as a primary design principle, I want that to be as good as it can be or all you get is a completely middling, so-so game experience that doesn't master any of its respective qualities.
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Post by Madflavor on Feb 17, 2017 3:20:07 GMT
I honestly don't know how to answer this. On one hand, the bread and butter of Mass Effect is Story, so I would say it needs to have a fun and enjoyable story that gets people excited for the future of the series. But on the other hand, given the size of the game, I would also say it's Gameplay needs to be fun, and not get repetitive. I really think this is a game that needs to succeed in all it's departments, it can't afford to have a weak link that's gonna drag the game down. Bioware's reputation has been really damaged these past few years, they need to knock this one out of the park. I'm not saying the game NEEDS to be fantastic or a 10/10, but it needs to be great. It doesn't have to revolutionize gaming, or set a new bar, it just needs to be a really fun game with an engaging story. I don't expect this to be the "turnaround" people might have been waiting for since BioWare went downhill. I think this is another Mass Effect, hopefully a good one, but I'm putting my money on the new IP for the time being even if it's not RPG. I half agree with you on this. A good Mass Effect game is probably all Bioware would need to restore some faith in their brand. ME3 had the ending (among other problems) and DA:I has gotten a lot of flak for it's overabundance of pointless boring filler. I think if ME:A is a very good game with nothing major dragging it down, it'll prove to people that Bioware can still make good RPGs, and that imo would be a turnaround. Mass Effect's time in the sun is probably gone, you're right. If there's any Sci-Fi RPG that's going to wow us the same way ME2 did back in the day, I'd probably put money down on CDProjektRed achieving that with Cyberpunk 2077. With that said, that doesn't mean ME:A can't still be a great game. That's really all it needs to be. Despite what many people think, I believe ME:A will at the very least be a good game. Whether it's a great one remains to be seen. But as long as it's a fun space adventure romp, that adds to the franchise and lays a good foundation for the future of the series, I'm content with that. I think a big problem for a lot of Bioware fans is that we all know the quality isn't the same, but there's no other AAA devs out there that make RPGs the way Bioware do. People bring up TW3 a lot, and as great as that game was, it wasn't like you could create a character, have dialogue trees (I mean you sorta do), and travel with companions you get to build frienships with. I think if Bioware had a strong competitor in this type of genre, a lot of us probably wouldn't feel so attached to this company. As for Bioware's new IP, I'm honestly not in the least bit interested. I'd rather they stick to single player RPGs.
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