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Post by amoebae on Feb 19, 2017 22:07:17 GMT
The problem BioWare have with eyes lies predominantly with them not realising that in the average resting face you cannot see all the way to the top of the iris (in fact, oftentimes a tiny fraction of the pupil is hidden by the upper lid as well), and there is generally some shadowing at the top of the eye where the light can't hit it because of the eyelid above. The amount of iris we see above the pupil is a cue as to a person's emotional status. Take Sera: Those fucking eyes. She looks like a psychopath or drug addict because of the amount of iris visible at the top. This is why I try to only take pictures of Sera when she has battle-face on or is talking, because her brow furrows and her eyelids generally otherwise animate to narrow. This is the problem with the models for Sara et al in MEA. It's less prominent now they've amended it in the character kits at least, but certainly Cora still suffers from it to a larger extent than any of the others. I'm playing through ME3 at the moment, and the lack of animation of the eyelids is painful. In a general non-film cutscene conversation, Shepard's eyelids rarely move at all, other than to blink. This is especially jarring when Shepard looks down - even a little, exposing a sea of white sclera above the iris as the eyeball tracks the person Shep is speaking to but the rest of the face anatomy doesn't follow suit. In DAI, I always, always ensure my Inquisitor has a dark eye colour. This helps minimise the effect as much as possible, because you don't always notice the amount of iris visible above the pupil. But of course, it would be better if a) BioWare modelled the lid a little lower to begin with; ensured the lids animate naturally; and c) added appropriate shading to the top of the visible eye. We might be able to mitigate the worst of the worst with our pathfinder, but we won't have any control over the npcs, and I foresee many an awkward conversation ahead.
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Post by Link"Guess"ski on Feb 20, 2017 0:08:29 GMT
Maybe I have some face-recognizing disorder or something but I really don't see the problem with Sera's eyes in particular. I love almost everything about Sera (not trying to be contrarian, promise!) and I especially like her face. It's kinda cutesy but also a little bit annoying and yes she does indeed have some kinda intense eyes but I felt it just contributed to the her character in a natural way. I think she makes the wrinkle-nose face too often but that's a cine-design fault and perhaps the animations being very rushed overall.
Thought I just had: The best part of ME3's sex scene wasn't the sex IMHO. It was this:
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amoebae
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Post by amoebae on Feb 20, 2017 0:51:42 GMT
Don't get me wrong, Sera is my favourite DAI character - I love her to little pieces and take endless screenshots of her. I think she's great. Her eyes are just a particularly good example of what I was trying to explain. Think the difference between this: and this: But obviously less pronounced. The lid should fall naturally across the eye, so that it covers most of the top of the iris. The more of the top half of the sclera (the white of the eye) that can be seen, the more unnatural it looks. One problem is that BW doesn't seem to think that eyelids - on women in particular - have any kind of droop to them, and insist on making them as perky and rounded as possible - which just exacerbates the problem by not providing adequate cover for the eye.
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Post by Link"Guess"ski on Feb 20, 2017 0:58:15 GMT
I can't take it seriously when you're comparing Sera to Kirsten Dunst.
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amoebae
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Post by amoebae on Feb 20, 2017 1:04:53 GMT
Cover the rest of her face with your hands if you must, I'm only interested in illustrating the eye issue.
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GannayevOfDreams
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Post by GannayevOfDreams on Feb 20, 2017 1:18:51 GMT
This thread should have come with a poll. It'd be interesting to gauge this forum's overall opinion on the optimal nudity in BioWare sex scenes. Ranging from having none at all (or just pure fade to black before clothes come off) to something like DA:I's level and beyond. It's pretty obvious we have users all across the spectrum.
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Can you dig it?
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by SKAR on Feb 20, 2017 3:36:05 GMT
This thread should have come with a poll. It'd be interesting to gauge this forum's overall opinion on the optimal nudity in BioWare sex scenes. Ranging from having none at all (or just pure fade to black before clothes come off) to something like DA:I's level and beyond. It's pretty obvious we have users all across the spectrum. You want it, You got it. Great idea!
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Post by KamenRyder on Feb 20, 2017 4:01:16 GMT
Cover the rest of her face with your hands if you must, I'm only interested in illustrating the eye issue. I appreciate you discussing the issue. I'm already getting ideas on what to consider when making my Ryders.
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Nightlife
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Post by Nightlife on Feb 20, 2017 4:23:53 GMT
I don't ask for much - I'll settle for male/female butt.
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Post by Pearl on Feb 20, 2017 4:31:11 GMT
dude dicks lmao
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Post by Dark King on Feb 20, 2017 4:46:00 GMT
I liked how inquisition handled nudity, it felt right for the scenes where I saw it in. Especially when Cullen was running back to his room naked after that card game .
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Post by KaiserShep on Feb 20, 2017 5:48:50 GMT
Don't get me wrong, Sera is my favourite DAI character - I love her to little pieces and take endless screenshots of her. I think she's great. Her eyes are just a particularly good example of what I was trying to explain. Think the difference between this: and this: But obviously less pronounced. The lid should fall naturally across the eye, so that it covers most of the top of the iris. The more of the top half of the sclera (the white of the eye) that can be seen, the more unnatural it looks. One problem is that BW doesn't seem to think that eyelids - on women in particular - have any kind of droop to them, and insist on making them as perky and rounded as possible - which just exacerbates the problem by not providing adequate cover for the eye. Not gonna lie. Unleashing the first pic startled me a little bit. I could swear I heard an eagle scream in the back of my head at the same time.
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Post by zeowik on Feb 20, 2017 6:03:43 GMT
The only thing that really concerns me is an imbalance with a focus on female nudity. People rumoring same sex male scenes being fade to black while others are more revealing however would irk me a bit.
Massive blood and gore being considered less of a ratings issue than nudity (especially male nudity) is just ridiculous, in my opinion.
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Post by Revan Reborn on Feb 20, 2017 6:27:15 GMT
I actually care less about the nudity and sex scenes and more about whether the relationship is even believable. Perhaps I'm in the minority, but I thought the relationships, at least for heterosexual males, in DAI were atrocious. Cassandra was rather boring and Josephine was too much of a Disney Princess. The only female character I found remotely interesting was Sera, and she was female only.
I know folks on BSN tend to despise this comparison, but I would look at The Witcher games for how to do a believable relationship. Especially with The Witcher 3, I enjoyed continuing the relationship with Triss as well as getting to know Yennefer. They were both incredibly well executed and offered something unique and different. Both characters had substance and I truly enjoyed engaging with both.
That is what I care for far more than anything else. Pixel nudity is fine, but it would be a lot more meaningful if the dialogue and the relationship made it better. For me, the most important thing about companions (whether love interests or not) is that you actually care about them and what they are doing.
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amoebae
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Post by amoebae on Feb 20, 2017 6:30:03 GMT
The only thing that really concerns me is an imbalance with a focus on female nudity. People rumoring same sex male scenes being fade to black while others are more revealing however would irk me a bit. Massive blood and gore being considered less of a ratings issue than nudity (especially male nudity) is just ridiculous, in my opinion. There was plenty of Dorian butt in DAI, but I understand your point and I agree with it. One problem is that there isn't an equal equivalent to boobs. Someone with their flat chest out isn't on the same level as someone with their tits out. While there is this imbalance, and while there's no full-frontal nudity, it's always going to feel like the women are being shown off naked more than the men. I don't know what the answer is to that. Perhaps for every boob shot there's 2x the amount of dude ass? Certainly though, the way scenes are animated is important. Long, lingering camera pans up the length of a woman's body should be met by equally long and lingering camera pans up the length of a man's body. I think DAI was reasonably good for this (not perfect), although it fell into the usual trap of some of the male nudity being played for laughs, but tbh Cullen losing his drawers was funny... And if there is vag, I'll be on one hell of a warpath if there isn't also peen. (And if there is both, but the former is all sexy and the latter is played for laughs... fire and brimstone, my friends. Fire and brimstone.)
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Post by Deleted on Feb 20, 2017 6:33:47 GMT
I am ready for every buttock tentacle and turian pubic scale in Andromeda they might throw at us.
So its "no holds barred (Bare Naked)" for me.
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Post by amoebae on Feb 20, 2017 6:38:20 GMT
I actually care less about the nudity and sex scenes and more about whether the relationship is even believable. Perhaps I'm in the minority, but I thought the relationships, at least for heterosexual males, in DAI were atrocious. Cassandra was rather boring and Josephine was too much of a Disney Princess. The only female character I found remotely interesting was Sera, and she was female only. I know folks on BSN tend to despise this comparison, but I would look at The Witcher games for how to do a believable relationship. Especially with The Witcher 3, I enjoyed continuing the relationship with Triss as well as getting to know Yennefer. They were both incredibly well executed and offered something unique and different. Both characters had substance and I truly enjoyed engaging with both. That is what I care for far more than anything else. Pixel nudity is fine, but it would be a lot more meaningful if the dialogue and the relationship made it better. For me, the most important thing about companions (whether love interests or not) is that you actually care about them and what they are doing. I agree, the writing and how the relationships develop are absolutely the most important thing. There is a difference between TW3 and DAI though, of course. In TW3 you're Geralt, you're always Geralt, you will forever be Geralt. There's no picking a different race or a different origin or crafting a different backstory or character - he is who he is. And Geralt likes the ladies. And so Geralt was given a choice of people who would appeal to him. In DAI, you can be all manner of different characters, and since the game was created to give choice and opportunity to express different sexualities, as well as still trying to provide some kind of believable and engaging story for each of them that was unique to them, there were of course going to be some companions you liked, and some you didn't. But just because you didn't like Cassandra and Josephine didn't mean your chances for romance were gone. The beauty of DAI was that you could simply roll another character once you'd finished, and experience the romances and character development with any of the others. As long as there are a range of options available, and as long as all things are relatively equal, that's a pretty good deal. There will always be someone who doesn't like the personality of the romanceable characters in front of them, but there's no way around that.
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Post by Revan Reborn on Feb 20, 2017 7:00:50 GMT
I agree, the writing and how the relationships develop are absolutely the most important thing. There is a difference between TW3 and DAI though, of course. In TW3 you're Geralt, you're always Geralt, you will forever be Geralt. There's no picking a different race or a different origin or crafting a different backstory or character - he is who he is. And Geralt likes the ladies. And so Geralt was given a choice of people who would appeal to him. In DAI, you can be all manner of different characters, and since the game was created to give choice and opportunity to express different sexualities, as well as still trying to provide some kind of believable and engaging story for each of them that was unique to them, there were of course going to be some companions you liked, and some you didn't. But just because you didn't like Cassandra and Josephine didn't mean your chances for romance were gone. The beauty of DAI was that you could simply roll another character once you'd finished, and experience the romances and character development with any of the others. As long as there are a range of options available, and as long as all things are relatively equal, that's a pretty good deal. There will always be someone who doesn't like the personality of the romanceable characters in front of them, but there's no way around that. I certainly will agree that CDPR had an easier time developing Triss (who was in the previous two games) and even Yennefer (Geralt's primary love interest in the Polish novels). There was a lot of history and lore to pull from and as you said, Geralt was already an established character. Regardless, and not even just from a heterosexual perspective but an execution standpoint, it's a great example to look at. The parts I enjoyed about those relationships the most were actually the stories the characters would tell and their history together. While it's true there is more variety and options for romance than just Cassandra and Josephine, I do not personally care to pursue other avenues. It's obviously a personal preference, but I'm only interested in heterosexual romances and nothing else. That's not to say I think there should be less options for other sexual orientations (the more inclusive the better I say), but I think it means BioWare has to try their utmost hardest to do a fantastic job with every single relationship they build and develop. I'm sure some folks loved Cassandra and Josephine, but I was not one of them. Sadly, the only female character I actually liked was Leliana, largely because she was already with my Hero of Ferelden/Warden-Commander from DAO. I never had a particular issue with relationships in previous BioWare games, but Dragon Age Inquisition was disappointing for me personally. BioWare has made it a standard to add more relationships and romance options with every game they make, so it will be interesting just to see how much variety there is for everybody (whether you're heterosexual, homosexual, pansexual, bisexual, etc.). Of course, BioWare can take it a step further with all the interspecies possibilities in Mass Effect and where that can lead.
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Post by Dark King on Feb 20, 2017 7:05:38 GMT
I hated Yennefer, but liked Triss. Sorry to the Yennefer fans.
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Post by Revan Reborn on Feb 20, 2017 7:22:48 GMT
I hated Yennefer, but liked Triss. Sorry to the Yennefer fans. Yennefer was bossy, but I kind of liked that side of her. Triss was definitely my favorite though. I'll be happy if Cora Harper is half as good as either one, honestly. It will be even more interesting if she turns out to be TIM's daughter.
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Post by Nashimura on Feb 20, 2017 12:48:50 GMT
Cover the rest of her face with your hands if you must, I'm only interested in illustrating the eye issue. I feel like this actually fits her character everyone else should have there eyes fixed, but leave Sera's like this.
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Post by Psychevore on Feb 20, 2017 13:25:56 GMT
I'm fine as long as they don't make people wear underwear in the shower.
That was really weird, man.
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SKAR
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Can you dig it?
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by SKAR on Feb 20, 2017 13:30:54 GMT
I hated Yennefer, but liked Triss. Sorry to the Yennefer fans. Shani was cool.
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Post by Revan Reborn on Feb 20, 2017 13:34:38 GMT
I hated Yennefer, but liked Triss. Sorry to the Yennefer fans. Shani was cool. I wasn't a big Shani fan in The Witcher 1, but she was amazing in Hearts of Stone. I felt awkward with that relationship ending on such an abrupt note with her leaving.
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Post by hsomcokesniper on Feb 20, 2017 14:10:33 GMT
The frick is wrong with you, BSN? Don't tell me you're surprised. Also, don't judge 'till you've at least tried space anal.
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