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Post by Cirvante on Feb 22, 2017 15:36:06 GMT
Do you think Bioware will make such a lazy mistake again or will enemy accuracy be independant from FPS? I vaguely remember that it had something to do with the unreal engine.
What will the console players do when they suddenly can't play on easy mode anymore?
Discuss!
(On a completely unrelated side note, I've come to the conclusion that the MP section could do with more drama)
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: Beerfish
XBL Gamertag: Beerfish77
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Post by Beerfish on Feb 22, 2017 15:53:17 GMT
Fill me in on this, what was the issue before? Enemies ended up in effect being more accurate on low frames such as consoles rather than high frame rates set ups such as pcs? or visa versa?
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Post by Cirvante on Feb 22, 2017 16:18:42 GMT
Fill me in on this, what was the issue before? Enemies ended up in effect being more accurate on low frames such as consoles rather than high frame rates set ups such as pcs? or visa versa? Enemies were retarded on consoles to the point where some scrubs on PC deliberately lowered their framerate to 30 so they could benefit from it. Reegar dmg and shield recharge was also tied to fps.
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XBL Gamertag: HeroicMass
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Post by Heroicmass on Feb 22, 2017 16:22:19 GMT
I think that had more to do with the unreal engine and how it worked if memory serves correct. From what was previously said on the old forums, frostbite doesn't have that as a "feature", thus this game will be even easier for the PC scrubs of the world. You guys already have it easy enough with your mouse+keyboard and easy reloading cancelling. Not to mention all the hacking that goes on from nothing but a bunch of awful cheats that use RHA.
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Little Pumpkin
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: Beerfish
XBL Gamertag: Beerfish77
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Post by Beerfish on Feb 22, 2017 16:24:30 GMT
I actually fear the frostbite engine for mp after DAIMP, as fr as bugs go.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by zorinho20 on Feb 22, 2017 17:10:15 GMT
Fill me in on this, what was the issue before? Enemies ended up in effect being more accurate on low frames such as consoles rather than high frame rates set ups such as pcs? or visa versa? Enemies were retarded on consoles to the point where some scrubs on PC deliberately lowered their framerate to 30 so they could benefit from it. Reegar dmg and shield recharge was also tied to fps. Playing on 100+ fps anyone 😀
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Post by Cirvante on Feb 22, 2017 17:21:13 GMT
Playing on 100+ fps anyone 😀 Only as a Drell. Shields are a crutch anyway.
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Post by Cyonan on Feb 22, 2017 17:30:14 GMT
For those who don't know: In Mass Effect 3 when you were within line of sight of an enemy they would update where they were shooting with your new location every 15 frames. This didn't change regardless of what your FPS was, meaning on consoles which were capped at 30 enemies updated their aiming 2 times per second.
If you were a PC player playing at 60 FPS, they would update 4 times per second making them considerably more accurate. As you increased your framerate above 60 they got even more accurate.
In general a lot of engines tie things to the framerate because it's a convenient thing to use that doesn't change as drastically as the last thing we used which was CPU cycles(doing that is why playing older games on your modern PC might make them go 50x faster than normal speed).
I have to imagine that Frostbite probably uses framerate for a lot of the same things as well, although it's possible they added in additional code to make the frame interval dynamic so that rather than simply update every 15 frames it alters how often it updates based on your FPS in order to maintain the same number of updates per second on the AI accuracy.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: Beerfish
XBL Gamertag: Beerfish77
Posts: 15,191 Likes: 36,397
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https://bsn.boards.net/user/314/personal
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Post by Beerfish on Feb 22, 2017 21:47:56 GMT
For those who don't know: In Mass Effect 3 when you were within line of sight of an enemy they would update where they were shooting with your new location every 15 frames. This didn't change regardless of what your FPS was, meaning on consoles which were capped at 30 enemies updated their aiming 2 times per second. If you were a PC player playing at 60 FPS, they would update 4 times per second making them considerably more accurate. As you increased your framerate above 60 they got even more accurate. In general a lot of engines tie things to the framerate because it's a convenient thing to use that doesn't change as drastically as the last thing we used which was CPU cycles(doing that is why playing older games on your modern PC might make them go 50x faster than normal speed). I have to imagine that Frostbite probably uses framerate for a lot of the same things as well, although it's possible they added in additional code to make the frame interval dynamic so that rather than simply update every 15 frames it alters how often it updates based on your FPS in order to maintain the same number of updates per second on the AI accuracy. Did this work both ways? I've heard that the pc is harder and faster in some ways but much easier in others (ie head shots,movement speed and turning speed)
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Post by SalMasRac on Feb 22, 2017 21:51:59 GMT
For those who don't know: In Mass Effect 3 when you were within line of sight of an enemy they would update where they were shooting with your new location every 15 frames. This didn't change regardless of what your FPS was, meaning on consoles which were capped at 30 enemies updated their aiming 2 times per second. If you were a PC player playing at 60 FPS, they would update 4 times per second making them considerably more accurate. As you increased your framerate above 60 they got even more accurate. In general a lot of engines tie things to the framerate because it's a convenient thing to use that doesn't change as drastically as the last thing we used which was CPU cycles(doing that is why playing older games on your modern PC might make them go 50x faster than normal speed). I have to imagine that Frostbite probably uses framerate for a lot of the same things as well, although it's possible they added in additional code to make the frame interval dynamic so that rather than simply update every 15 frames it alters how often it updates based on your FPS in order to maintain the same number of updates per second on the AI accuracy. Did this work both ways? I've head that the pc is harder and faster in some ways but much easier in others (ie head shots,movement speed and turning speed) Well for one thing you can use your mouse to look around as you are running, which you can't do on consoles. It's nice.
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Post by Cyonan on Feb 22, 2017 22:16:18 GMT
For those who don't know: In Mass Effect 3 when you were within line of sight of an enemy they would update where they were shooting with your new location every 15 frames. This didn't change regardless of what your FPS was, meaning on consoles which were capped at 30 enemies updated their aiming 2 times per second. If you were a PC player playing at 60 FPS, they would update 4 times per second making them considerably more accurate. As you increased your framerate above 60 they got even more accurate. In general a lot of engines tie things to the framerate because it's a convenient thing to use that doesn't change as drastically as the last thing we used which was CPU cycles(doing that is why playing older games on your modern PC might make them go 50x faster than normal speed). I have to imagine that Frostbite probably uses framerate for a lot of the same things as well, although it's possible they added in additional code to make the frame interval dynamic so that rather than simply update every 15 frames it alters how often it updates based on your FPS in order to maintain the same number of updates per second on the AI accuracy. Did this work both ways? I've heard that the pc is harder and faster in some ways but much easier in others (ie head shots,movement speed and turning speed) There was some benefits to a higher framerate. The most noticeable one was that the game would only register one hit on a target from each player per frame, which led to things like the Reegar Carbine being a lot more effective on PC at a high framerate. This is also why you see shotgun damage being applied over a quarter of a second, because they built in compensation for this to deal with pellet counts. The Reegar just overloads it with the absurdly high rate of fire. While it wasn't FPS related, we did also have an easier time with turning and headshots simply because the mouse is just a faster and more accurate aiming tool than a controller is. We also didn't have to put up with aim assist trying to snap our crosshairs to targets. To my knowledge move speed wasn't any faster but it might have looked that way. If you look at a gif showing the difference between framerates, all 3 technically arrive at the other side at the same time but 30 and 15 FPS(it's much more noticeable with the 15 marker) appear to be moving slower: It's one of the main reasons why I say playing at 30 FPS just feels too sluggish.
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Post by BansheeOwnage on Feb 22, 2017 22:55:34 GMT
Did this work both ways? I've head that the pc is harder and faster in some ways but much easier in others (ie head shots,movement speed and turning speed) Well for one thing you can use your mouse to look around as you are running, which you can't do on consoles. It's nice. Technically you can do this on consoles too, it's just very difficult without practicing daily finger yoga With my right hand, sometimes I would move my use my middle finger to shoot/use right bumper while I moved my index finger awkwardly over the A button (sprint), and used the thumbstick normally to look around while sprinting. But yeah, most of the time it's just too impractical
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Post by missileglitcher on Feb 22, 2017 23:01:39 GMT
us console peasants have it really difficult actually. yes, we have to play on these garbage trashy machines and yes, we can only play on 1080p resolution and yes, the highest frame rate we can dream of is 20 fps. we have it tough because we have to use analogue sticks instead of a mouse to aim, which means that we have a horrible gaming experience and find it impossible to enjoy the game properly.
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Post by Cirvante on Feb 22, 2017 23:28:47 GMT
us console peasants have it really difficult actually. yes, we have to play on these garbage trashy machines and yes, we can only play on 1080p resolution and yes, the highest frame rate we can dream of is 20 fps. we have it tough because we have to use analogue sticks instead of a mouse to aim, which means that we have a horrible gaming experience and find it impossible to enjoy the game properly. Fortunately there is a solution for that.
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Post by crashsuit on Feb 23, 2017 0:38:14 GMT
What will the console players do when they suddenly can't play on easy mode anymore?
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Post by nucleartech76 on Feb 23, 2017 3:19:00 GMT
Meh, we've had this discussion before. PC has much better controls.
I would be interested to know if cloak is more effective since enemies re-evaluate targets more often at higher fps.
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Post by Qui-Gon GlenN7 on Feb 23, 2017 4:23:15 GMT
Meh, we've had this discussion before. PC has much better controls. I would be interested to know if cloak is more effective since enemies re-evaluate targets more often at higher fps. Depends on how the perception events are handled. I imagine everything has a heartbeat... On that heartbeat, multiple senses are registering, including sight (which TC affects) and hearing (which TC does not), etc... So, your question is interesting but not that simple. I think you are on to something, but it may be a wash.
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Post by Cyonan on Feb 23, 2017 4:44:02 GMT
Meh, we've had this discussion before. PC has much better controls. I would be interested to know if cloak is more effective since enemies re-evaluate targets more often at higher fps. While the enemies updated your location every 15 frames, the AI routine to re-evaluate targets was on the basic AI code and happened at the end of each action they took. In most cases, it would happen after they finished firing their current burst of ammo at you. The issues with cloak's invisibility not working reliably is because of a few other factors: 1. Enemies will continue to shoot at the location where you cloaked. 2. If no other targets are present, the enemy will just cheat and look at where you are anyway. This cheating ignored both line of sight and cloak. 3. Enemies could hear you if you moved too close to them and start shooting at the location where they heard you. 4. Because of the re-evaluate code I mentioned above if you cloaked at the start of a burst fire against you, you would still have the entire burst fire shot at you and they would know your location until it ended and the re-evaluate code kicked in. In general it wasn't really that much more effective on PC. The re-evaluate code might have triggered slightly faster after the current action finished since AI routines were checked each frame, but it would be a difference of 0.033 seconds vs 0.016 seconds.
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Post by nucleartech76 on Feb 23, 2017 4:48:12 GMT
Does lock on change with fps changes?
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OneWomanArmy
N5
Queen of BSN
I’m a brilliant brunette with lots of blonde moments 😜
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
XBL Gamertag: Theonewomanarmy
PSN: HypnoticEyes
Prime Posts: A great deal, I'm an old timer
Prime Likes: A LOT....
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Post by OneWomanArmy on Feb 23, 2017 6:08:25 GMT
What will the console players do when they suddenly can't play on easy mode anymore? This was just mean but I lol'd
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Post by SalMasRac on Feb 23, 2017 6:44:19 GMT
Well for one thing you can use your mouse to look around as you are running, which you can't do on consoles. It's nice. Technically you can do this on consoles too, it's just very difficult without practicing daily finger yoga With my right hand, sometimes I would move my use my middle finger to shoot/use right bumper while I moved my index finger awkwardly over the A button (sprint), and used the thumbstick normally to look around while sprinting. But yeah, most of the time it's just too impractical You sure about that? Left thumbstick moves you forwards, backwards, and strafes side to side. Right thumbstick actually turns your character. Do you have a secret third thumbstick that looks around?
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: Zorinho20
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Post by zorinho20 on Feb 23, 2017 6:52:29 GMT
Wondering if controls will be like in MEMP or DAMP.DAMP was almost impossible to play with K/M for me.
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Post by Pearl on Feb 23, 2017 7:05:22 GMT
Technically you can do this on consoles too, it's just very difficult without practicing daily finger yoga With my right hand, sometimes I would move my use my middle finger to shoot/use right bumper while I moved my index finger awkwardly over the A button (sprint), and used the thumbstick normally to look around while sprinting. But yeah, most of the time it's just too impractical You sure about that? Left thumbstick moves you forwards, backwards, and strafes side to side. Right thumbstick actually turns your character. Do you have a secret third thumbstick that looks around?
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Post by leafspring on Feb 23, 2017 8:41:25 GMT
In general a lot of engines tie things to the framerate because it's a convenient thing to use that doesn't change as drastically as the last thing we used which was CPU cycles Well, badly designed games/engines do anyway. The proper way to do it is to tie the logic (physic, rendering, game updates) to the timing and have specific framerates set for each. Rendering runs at 60 FPS, physics at 10 FPS etc. and when a new frame is calculated, you apply the changes based on time passed since the last one. Seriously, tying sh*t to the effective framerate on modern-day hardware should warrant a high five in the face. With a chair. Thankfully, most engines and games do it the proper way by now with the odd exception every now and then (looking at you Need for Speed). edit: Just to make things clear - I'm not saying UE3 is a bad engine. While I haven't used it much myself, I'm fairly confident that it provided proper frame timing for the devs to use. This one's almost certainly on Bioware, not Epic.
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Post by TaliWhacker on Feb 23, 2017 19:09:49 GMT
us console peasants have it really difficult actually. yes, we have to play on these garbage trashy machines and yes, we can only play on 1080p resolution and yes, the highest frame rate we can dream of is 20 fps. we have it tough because we have to use analogue sticks instead of a mouse to aim, which means that we have a horrible gaming experience and find it impossible to enjoy the game properly. Garbage trashy machines? Do you mean a trash compactor? No wonder you have such an awful gaming experience. Trash compactor just can not run modern video games. Edit: Awww, he liked it. It is like his head is a garbagey trash machine that can't understand I am making fun of him.
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