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Post by wickerman on Feb 22, 2017 19:46:40 GMT
Hi Guys,
I've read an article in which the author was worried by Bioware's released footage/info on combat and game play, and not much on story and characters which are the hall marks of Bioware RPG games.
On the ME-A webpage, Bioware even list ME-A as an action/shooter and not a RPG.
I appreciate that there's still a long was to go until game launch (impatient!), more than enough time for the Bioware marketing machine to ramp up hype and release story/character info, up until a point without giving too much away but i think the author may have a slight point.
Is anyone else a little concerned that ME-A possibly isn't going to be story/character focused, in a true RPG style, or am I being overly worrisome (i think caused by my disappointment with DAI)?
I hope i'm completely wrong and its epic!
Cheers
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Post by KaiserShep on Feb 22, 2017 19:50:45 GMT
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Post by projectpatdc on Feb 22, 2017 19:51:23 GMT
Uncharted 4 is also very much story and character focused and it's not an RPG. I wouldn't really classify Mass Effect 3 an RPG either. It was a 3rd person action shooter with dialogue trees and a really shallow progression system.
ME:A will have RPG elements. Slightly more than Horizon Zero Dawn with dialogue trees, progression system, crafting, collecting, side quests, etc, but so far from the footage shown, it's very much more of an action shooter until they prove otherwise
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2017 19:55:13 GMT
Andromeda is an ARPG, just like every other Mass Effect. From just the trailers alone you can see that there are more skills than ME2 or 3, so it's already a better RPG than either of those. That doesn't mean it'll be a better game, but I digress...
Story will be a focus. That's just a given. That's Bioware's main "gimmick". There's literally no reason to worry about that. I can say with 100% certainty that story will be one of the core pillars of this game.
Again, that doesn't mean it will be good, but it's definitely a focus...
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vanguarddoken
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I am the Adept! I casts the biotics that makes the peoples fly up!
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Post by vanguarddoken on Feb 22, 2017 19:55:15 GMT
Action-RPG.
Mass Effect has been an action-RPG from the very beginning. The "action" part was kinda clunky, but it still qualifies. I looked at the ME:A website, and the game description lists storytelling and emotion as elements of the game along with being a third-person shooter with squad mechanics.
They've also released plenty of story snippets and information, talking about how the events of the game get started and a series of videos about the Andromeda Initiative that touch upon the characters of the game.
As for someone complaining that they think there's too much focus on gameplay, keep in mind that every story-focused video they've released for ME:A has people complaining that there's not enough gameplay footage...and every gameplay-focused video has people complaining that there's not enough story content. (And even some people who bounce between the two, because they just want to complain.)
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2017 19:57:22 GMT
Meh - According to some, ME3 isn't an RPG either. According to others, even ME1 isn't a "true RPG."
We have been shown that there will be dialogue wheels and options to romance different characters. Other RPG elements we've been shown or told about include a skill tree, crafting, a CC, and the ability to select what planets we travel to from an undetermined number of options. The rest is really a matter of opinion of what degree of such elements are needed to make or break it as an RPG-style game.
I really don't care what the "labelers" ultimately call it. If it's fun, I'll play it.
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BadgerladDK
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Post by BadgerladDK on Feb 22, 2017 19:59:12 GMT
I think you worry too much, story and character is a BioWare stable. Mechanically, it's certainly in the action rpg genre, but that doesn't exclude role playing any more than being isometric and turn based. It's not the mechanics, it's what you do with them.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2017 20:00:19 GMT
Meh - According to some, ME3 isn't an RPG either. According to others, even ME1 isn't a "true RPG." We have been shown that there will be dialogue wheels and options to romance different characters. Other RPG elements we've been shown or told about include a skill tree, crafting, a CC, and the ability to select what planets we travel to from an undetermined number of options. The rest is really a matter of opinion of what degree of such elements are needed to make or break it as an RPG-style game. I really don't care what the "labelers" ultimately call it. If it's fun, I'll play it. Mass Effect 1 would be considered just as much an ARPG as the other games if the combat wasn't so poorly designed. I'm not saying the game itself is bad, mind you, but objectively speaking, it's a goddamn mess, mechanically. I think the most interesting thing about ME hardly being considered an ARPG is that it absolutely would if Bioware better knew how to make it one. I'm pretty sure that was their intention.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2017 20:01:22 GMT
You worry too much.
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Legenlorn
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Post by Legenlorn on Feb 22, 2017 20:02:02 GMT
Action-RPG. Mass Effect has been an action-RPG from the very beginning. The "action" part was kinda clunky, but it still qualifies. I looked at the ME:A website, and the game description lists storytelling and emotion as elements of the game along with being a third-person shooter with squad mechanics. They've also released plenty of story snippets and information, talking about how the events of the game get started and a series of videos about the Andromeda Initiative that touch upon the characters of the game. As for someone complaining that they think there's too much focus on gameplay, keep in mind that every story-focused video they've released for ME:A has people complaining that there's not enough gameplay footage...and every gameplay-focused video has people complaining that there's not enough story content. (And even some people who bounce between the two, because they just want to complain.) You know... you are doing some "complaining" yourself. People are different hence why they need different things. And as you are allowed to complain about said people, those same people have the right to complain as well. If it bothers you so much then just don't go into the respective thread or don't read the posts from the people.
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Post by alanc9 on Feb 22, 2017 20:03:19 GMT
RPG is such a nebulous term that it's pointless to worry about whether something is or isn't one.
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Post by Croatsky on Feb 22, 2017 20:03:41 GMT
ME Andromeda is an action adventure RPG third person shooter with exploration. So answer to OP is a yes and yes and more.
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Post by Iakus on Feb 22, 2017 20:05:34 GMT
Probably more like a little from Column A, and a lot more from Column B
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2017 20:06:38 GMT
Action-RPG. Mass Effect has been an action-RPG from the very beginning. The "action" part was kinda clunky, but it still qualifies. I looked at the ME:A website, and the game description lists storytelling and emotion as elements of the game along with being a third-person shooter with squad mechanics. They've also released plenty of story snippets and information, talking about how the events of the game get started and a series of videos about the Andromeda Initiative that touch upon the characters of the game. As for someone complaining that they think there's too much focus on gameplay, keep in mind that every story-focused video they've released for ME:A has people complaining that there's not enough gameplay footage...and every gameplay-focused video has people complaining that there's not enough story content. (And even some people who bounce between the two, because they just want to complain.) You know... you are doing some "complaining" yourself. People are different hence why they need different things. And as you are allowed to complain about said people, those same people have the right to complain as well. If it bothers you so much then just don't go into the respective thread or don't read the posts from the people. OP didn't seem to be complaining to me. It was really just an observation, from the looks of it. That's such a pointless thing to say though. "Stop complaining about complainers. Just don't look at it". People are allowed to engage in discussion. Even if they disagree with one another. Shocking, I know.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2017 20:26:14 GMT
Meh - According to some, ME3 isn't an RPG either. According to others, even ME1 isn't a "true RPG." We have been shown that there will be dialogue wheels and options to romance different characters. Other RPG elements we've been shown or told about include a skill tree, crafting, a CC, and the ability to select what planets we travel to from an undetermined number of options. The rest is really a matter of opinion of what degree of such elements are needed to make or break it as an RPG-style game. I really don't care what the "labelers" ultimately call it. If it's fun, I'll play it. Mass Effect 1 would be considered just as much an ARPG as the other games if the combat wasn't so poorly designed. I'm not saying the game itself is bad, mind you, but objectively speaking, it's a goddamn mess, mechanically. I think the most interesting thing about ME hardly being considered an ARPG is that it absolutely would if Bioware better knew how to make it one. I'm pretty sure that was their intention. I wasn't specifically addressing what you had said, so I'm a little confused as to why you're quoting me. Labeling games, movies, etc. in a particular sub-genre is a very subjective thing... based on individual opinions about how much of "this" or "that" tips the scales enough for them to slap a particular label on it. It doesn't have very much to do with "if Bioware knew better how to make one" because their intent it probably just to make a good game that's fun and will sell... and let the "world of critics" throw the labels on it. In the scheme of things, it doesn't matter a tap what they label it as... what matters is if it interests me enough for me to buy it... and then what matters most is if I enjoy it enough to play it through. I have plenty of "truer RPGs" than Mass Effect that I've never gotten interested in enough to even finish. The Mass Effect Trilogy, though, I've played through in it's entirety more than 30 times. Obviously, I think ME:T is a pretty darned good game and that Bioware is quite capable of writing a pretty darned good game.
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Post by Legenlorn on Feb 22, 2017 20:29:09 GMT
You know... you are doing some "complaining" yourself. People are different hence why they need different things. And as you are allowed to complain about said people, those same people have the right to complain as well. If it bothers you so much then just don't go into the respective thread or don't read the posts from the people. OP didn't seem to be complaining to me. It was really just an observation, from the looks of it. That's such a pointless thing to say though. "Stop complaining about complainers. Just don't look at it". People are allowed to engage in discussion. Even if they disagree with one another. Shocking, I know. Engaging in discussion and disagreeing is fine and constructive but complaining that people complain without the discussion is imo trolling. I understand that for some, the amount of footage shown is ok. Comparing with other games marketing strategies it is a small amount (I have yet to see some footage of the colony system for example) and others may be more used to being shown more. Being negative about what people want from a game they have been waiting for soo long is not the way imo. But you are right with your comment about "not looking at it". I apologize.
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Post by Hexx on Feb 22, 2017 20:37:18 GMT
Meh - According to some, ME3 isn't an RPG either. According to others, even ME1 isn't a "true RPG." We have been shown that there will be dialogue wheels and options to romance different characters. Other RPG elements we've been shown or told about include a skill tree, crafting, a CC, and the ability to select what planets we travel to from an undetermined number of options. The rest is really a matter of opinion of what degree of such elements are needed to make or break it as an RPG-style game. I really don't care what the "labelers" ultimately call it. If it's fun, I'll play it. I agree. It's a semantics argument at best and not even a good one. Some will say, well RPG in the realm of games denotes certain system like inventory, leveling, skills and abilities etc etc. Others will actually look at what the acronym means and say that Role Playing is the more important feature. Fact is people will play it (or not) then label it whatever mostly closely relates to their outlook on the game. If I like I will play it. Though for my own personal definition, as a pen and paper veteran it's just as much RPG as it's action. The rules in those games always served as way to deliver a story. Same for video game based RPGs. So the "rules" aren't as intricate here and instead we go for action instead. Basically it's a LARP rather than a couch side role playing.
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Atemporal Vanguardian-Debugger
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At sunrise there is the sunset.
To find the secrets of the universe: Think in terms of energy, frequency & VIBRATION -Nikola Tesla
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Post by Atemporal Vanguardian-Debugger on Feb 22, 2017 20:38:01 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2017 20:42:33 GMT
Mass Effect 1 would be considered just as much an ARPG as the other games if the combat wasn't so poorly designed. I'm not saying the game itself is bad, mind you, but objectively speaking, it's a goddamn mess, mechanically. I think the most interesting thing about ME hardly being considered an ARPG is that it absolutely would if Bioware better knew how to make it one. I'm pretty sure that was their intention. I wasn't specifically addressing what you had said, so I'm a little confused as to why you're quoting me. Labeling games, movies, etc. in a particular sub-genre is a very subjective thing... based on individual opinions about how much of "this" or "that" tips the scales enough for them to slap a particular label on it. It doesn't have very much to do with "if Bioware knew better how to make one" because their intent it probably just to make a good game that's fun and will sell... and let the "world of critics" throw the labels on it. In the scheme of things, it doesn't matter a tap what they label it as... what matters is if it interests me enough for me to buy it... and then what matters most is if I enjoy it enough to play it through. I have plenty of "truer RPGs" than Mass Effect that I've never gotten interested in enough to even finish. The Mass Effect Trilogy, though, I've played through in it's entirety more than 30 times. Obviously, I think ME:T is a pretty darned good game and that Bioware is quite capable of writing a pretty darned good game. Just making conversation, tbh. What you said vaguely related to what I said, so I decided to follow up. That's what forums are for, lol. Anyway, I agree that labels aren't all that important. I just think that things like "Where did the RPG go" when talking about Mass Effect is a little disingenuous sometimes. It was always an ARPG, by intent, at least in my honest opinion. I do see how people can get annoyed by how shallow the RPG systems got in ME2 and 3, but a lot of people seem to put ME1 on this pedestal when it also had it's fair share of problems. I just like to point out the irony, tbh.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2017 20:45:32 GMT
OP didn't seem to be complaining to me. It was really just an observation, from the looks of it. That's such a pointless thing to say though. "Stop complaining about complainers. Just don't look at it". People are allowed to engage in discussion. Even if they disagree with one another. Shocking, I know. Engaging in discussion and disagreeing is fine and constructive but complaining that people complain without the discussion is imo trolling. I understand that for some, the amount of footage shown is ok. Comparing with other games marketing strategies it is a small amount (I have yet to see some footage of the colony system for example) and others may be more used to being shown more. Being negative about what people want from a game they have been waiting for soo long is not the way imo. But you are right with your comment about "not looking at it". I apologize. Well, keep in mind, the OP said "some people complain about both" because they "want to complain". That was the only part in there that felt relevant to what you were saying, but people who jump from camp to camp are impossible to satisfy, so the point becomes moot.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2017 21:00:11 GMT
I wasn't specifically addressing what you had said, so I'm a little confused as to why you're quoting me. Labeling games, movies, etc. in a particular sub-genre is a very subjective thing... based on individual opinions about how much of "this" or "that" tips the scales enough for them to slap a particular label on it. It doesn't have very much to do with "if Bioware knew better how to make one" because their intent it probably just to make a good game that's fun and will sell... and let the "world of critics" throw the labels on it. In the scheme of things, it doesn't matter a tap what they label it as... what matters is if it interests me enough for me to buy it... and then what matters most is if I enjoy it enough to play it through. I have plenty of "truer RPGs" than Mass Effect that I've never gotten interested in enough to even finish. The Mass Effect Trilogy, though, I've played through in it's entirety more than 30 times. Obviously, I think ME:T is a pretty darned good game and that Bioware is quite capable of writing a pretty darned good game. Just making conversation, tbh. What you said vaguely related to what I said, so I decided to follow up. That's what forums are for, lol. Anyway, I agree that labels aren't all that important. I just think that things like "Where did the RPG go" when talking about Mass Effect is a little disingenuous sometimes. It was always an ARPG, by intent, at least in my honest opinion. I do see how people can get annoyed by how shallow the RPG systems got in ME2 and 3, but a lot of people seem to put ME1 on this pedestal when it also had it's fair share of problems. I just like to point out the irony, tbh. Vaguely related... hmmm. What you said is that Bioware doesn't know how to write an ARPG: Conversely, I'm saying people just don't know how to go about labeling the games that Bioware writes... which are very good games, IMO. "I just like to point out the irony, tbh"
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2017 21:10:56 GMT
Just making conversation, tbh. What you said vaguely related to what I said, so I decided to follow up. That's what forums are for, lol. Anyway, I agree that labels aren't all that important. I just think that things like "Where did the RPG go" when talking about Mass Effect is a little disingenuous sometimes. It was always an ARPG, by intent, at least in my honest opinion. I do see how people can get annoyed by how shallow the RPG systems got in ME2 and 3, but a lot of people seem to put ME1 on this pedestal when it also had it's fair share of problems. I just like to point out the irony, tbh. Vaguely related... hmmm. What you said is that Bioware doesn't know how to write an ARPG: Conversely, I'm saying people just don't know how to go about labeling the games that Bioware writes... which are very good games, IMO. "I just like to point out the irony, tbh" I wasn't referring to the writing. I was saying that mechanically, ME is extremely clunky, and suffers from some objectively poor design. That's why people don't often consider it an ARPG. Because the A is broken and sloppy. The labels are shallow and meaningless because all three ME games fall into the same category. The thing that separates ME1 from 2 and 3 is that 2 and 3 are relatively well designed games.
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Post by derrame on Feb 22, 2017 21:26:23 GMT
it's third person shooter with some rpg elments
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Post by KaiserShep on Feb 22, 2017 21:29:02 GMT
Probably more like a little from Column A, and a lot more from Column B. I guess it'd be following in ME1's footsteps then, just with superior combat, so...hooray I guess.
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Post by Cyonan on Feb 22, 2017 21:34:17 GMT
The label RPG is so ambiguous a term we can have 50 page threads discussing it and still not actually agree on what the damn thing means, so as a general rule I don't really worry much about if it will be labeled as a RPG or not.
That said Mass Effect has always been marketed as an action game with a focus on characters, story, and player choice. It's just that, as pointed out, in ME1 the action half of that was rubbish. Likely because BioWare didn't really have experience with making third person cover based shooters.
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