SKAR
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Can you dig it?
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Post by SKAR on Feb 22, 2017 21:44:26 GMT
Both
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Legenlorn
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Post by Legenlorn on Feb 22, 2017 21:48:25 GMT
IMO to describe it generally I would say an RPG lets you play the character you are playing. So anything that contributes to you being able to fulfill the characters role and shape him.
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Post by coldlogic on Feb 22, 2017 21:48:52 GMT
Well, I mean, if we're honest here, haven't we been asking this about every game since the original? I remember when I bought Mass Effect 2 in particular, no one seemed to agree if it was a shooter or an RPG. I mean, I guess I figured you could have an action/shooter RPG. Both of them together.
Not to troll, but why is it so weird to say a shooter can be an RPG? Is it because we just assume it's not an RPG without someone shooting fireballs? Because... incinerate...
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Post by Legenlorn on Feb 22, 2017 21:57:06 GMT
Well, I mean, if we're honest here, haven't we been asking this about every game since the original? I remember when I bought Mass Effect 2 in particular, no one seemed to agree if it was a shooter or an RPG. I mean, I guess I figured you could have an action/shooter RPG. Both of them together. Not to troll, but why is it so weird to say a shooter can be an RPG? Is it because we just assume it's not an RPG without someone shooting fireballs? Because... incinerate... Think the problem is it is being advertised as a Action shooter game and people are worried it will turn out to be more CoD or BattleField like insted of DA like in regards to rpg elements. As in less dialogue, less freedom of choice and stuff.
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Post by Cyonan on Feb 22, 2017 22:00:13 GMT
Well, I mean, if we're honest here, haven't we been asking this about every game since the original? I remember when I bought Mass Effect 2 in particular, no one seemed to agree if it was a shooter or an RPG. I mean, I guess I figured you could have an action/shooter RPG. Both of them together. Not to troll, but why is it so weird to say a shooter can be an RPG? Is it because we just assume it's not an RPG without someone shooting fireballs? Because... incinerate... Having participated in many old "Just what IS a RPG?" threads, there is a group of people who believe RPGs are required to have the dice rolling mechanics of D&D that ties everything to character stats even if it's behind the scenes. Since Mass Effect 2 didn't do that, those people don't consider it a RPG. The term RPG is just one of those terms that any of us could probably look at a game and go "Yep, that's a RPG", but we'd be hard pressed to write an actual definition that fit everything we called a RPG without including the things we said weren't a RPG. As a result, it's not a terribly useful label in most situations.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2017 22:43:00 GMT
Vaguely related... hmmm. What you said is that Bioware doesn't know how to write an ARPG: Conversely, I'm saying people just don't know how to go about labeling the games that Bioware writes... which are very good games, IMO. "I just like to point out the irony, tbh" I wasn't referring to the writing. I was saying that mechanically, ME is extremely clunky, and suffers from some objectively poor design. That's why people don't often consider it an ARPG. Because the A is broken and sloppy. The labels are shallow and meaningless because all three ME games fall into the same category. The thing that separates ME1 from 2 and 3 is that 2 and 3 are relatively well designed games. So. you were actually meaning to say was that they can't "make a shooter" (as opposed to "write an ARPG") because you weren't really talking about the writing at all and it's the "A" (action) part that "suffers from some objectively poor design." This is why, IMO, the insistence on using such labels is what tears the various gaming communities apart on the various forums. It's just like racial politics... better if we just don't start using the labels at all (IMO).
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2017 22:48:34 GMT
I wasn't referring to the writing. I was saying that mechanically, ME is extremely clunky, and suffers from some objectively poor design. That's why people don't often consider it an ARPG. Because the A is broken and sloppy. The labels are shallow and meaningless because all three ME games fall into the same category. The thing that separates ME1 from 2 and 3 is that 2 and 3 are relatively well designed games. So. you were actually meaning to say was that they can't "make a shooter" (as opposed to "write an ARPG") because you weren't really talking about the writing at all and it's the "A" (action) part that "suffers from some objectively poor design." This is why, IMO, the insistence on using such labels is what tears the various gaming communities apart on the various forums. It's just like racial politics... better if we just don't start using the labels at all (IMO). I didn't say they couldn't make a shooter either. I said that they were very poor at designing one, and as a result, people do not consider ME1 one. People use labels for three games that apply to the same category differently because one game does something worse than the other two. I'm literally agreeing with you, and you keep trying to argue. What?
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Post by KaiserShep on Feb 22, 2017 22:50:22 GMT
Uncharted 4 is also very much story and character focused and it's not an RPG. I wouldn't really classify Mass Effect 3 an RPG either. It was a 3rd person action shooter with dialogue trees and a really shallow progression system. ME:A will have RPG elements. Slightly more than Horizon Zero Dawn with dialogue trees, progression system, crafting, collecting, side quests, etc, but so far from the footage shown, it's very much more of an action shooter until they prove otherwise I'd argue that ME2's is easily the shallowest of the lot in terms of progression. But I feel that the depth of ME1's system is mostly an illusion on account of just how many slots you need to tick off before unlocking the next bonus of each skill on the tree, and of course the weapon restrictions, which never really made much sense to me.
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helios969
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Post by helios969 on Feb 22, 2017 23:00:08 GMT
Like many have said, it is both. Wiki's definition, which I think is apt: Role-playing refers to the changing of one's behaviour to assume a role, either unconsciously to fill a social role, or consciously to act out an adopted role. Strictly speaking, you don't even need to have a CC, dialogue options, or choices in a game to fulfill this definition. Those things just make it a more personalized experience and provide more agency. With all said, I think the ultimate definition is up to the individual player. MEA is an action RPG imo.
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Post by colfoley on Feb 22, 2017 23:05:59 GMT
If the witcher 3 is considered an rpg surely Andromeda is.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2017 23:10:46 GMT
So. you were actually meaning to say was that they can't "make a shooter" (as opposed to "write an ARPG") because you weren't really talking about the writing at all and it's the "A" (action) part that "suffers from some objectively poor design." This is why, IMO, the insistence on using such labels is what tears the various gaming communities apart on the various forums. It's just like racial politics... better if we just don't start using the labels at all (IMO). I didn't say they couldn't make a shooter either. I said that they were very poor at designing one, and as a result, people do not consider ME1 one. People use labels for three games that apply to the same category differently because one game does something worse than the other two. I'm literally agreeing with you, and you keep trying to argue. What? Yes, I'm agreeing with you, too. Just pointing out how the attempts at labeling trip up the sort of language we all use to try to describe it. The disk jacket I have for the original ME1 actually doesn't mention any of the terms like "RPG, " "ARPG," "action-shooter"; or even "third-person shooter" It describes itself as "an epic adventure in an immersive open-ended story line." It also mentions having "interplanetary exploration," "real-time character interaction," and "thrilling tactical combat." - and, for the era in which is was made, I think it very much delivered on all those statements. Fast forward to now... where this whole thread is about worrying over what labels Bioware still isn't using to describe ME:A.
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Post by Cannibal on Feb 22, 2017 23:11:14 GMT
It's Mass Effect, it's going to be the same as the other three. If you think those are RPGs, then this is a RPG, if you think those were action shooters than this is going to be an action shooter.
I'm far too old to argue game classifications because they're irrelevant to me, a good game is a good game, and a bad game is a bad game. I found the original trilogy to be good, so if BioWare follows suit, this game should also be good.
BioWare are also long past their pause and play tactical RPGs of the 90s, if you want that, buy Torment next week.
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Post by helios969 on Feb 22, 2017 23:13:29 GMT
If the witcher 3 is considered an rpg surely Andromeda is. That is a fact. I don't have many criticisms of the game but the dialogue options were generally lacking.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2017 23:17:32 GMT
I didn't say they couldn't make a shooter either. I said that they were very poor at designing one, and as a result, people do not consider ME1 one. People use labels for three games that apply to the same category differently because one game does something worse than the other two. I'm literally agreeing with you, and you keep trying to argue. What? Yes, I'm agreeing with you, too. Just pointing out how the attempts at labeling trip up the sort of language we all use to try to describe it. The disk jacket I have for the original ME1 actually doesn't mention any of the terms like "RPG, " "ARPG," "action-shooter"; or even "third-person shooter" It describes itself as "an epic adventure in an immersive open-ended story line." It also mentions having "interplanetary exploration," "real-time character interaction," and "thrilling tactical combat." - and, for the era in which is was made, I think it very much delivered on all those statements. Fast forward to now... where this whole thread is about worrying over what labels Bioware still isn't using to describe ME:A. Ahhh, fair, fair. My bad. I do think the first ME game was labeled though. Maybe not on the box itself, but certainly it had labels. The problem really stems from how we label games. We try to do it by mechanics, and mechanics can blend together, which leads to a bunch of bullshit where we have elitists and purists who still don't know how to define what they're playing. I think labeling is something that is helpful, and it's something humans are inherently inclined to do. But we don't label movies by what kinds of camera angles they use. That would be stupid. Video games are doing just that.
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Post by SofaJockey on Feb 22, 2017 23:30:10 GMT
This
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2017 23:48:09 GMT
Yes, I'm agreeing with you, too. Just pointing out how the attempts at labeling trip up the sort of language we all use to try to describe it. The disk jacket I have for the original ME1 actually doesn't mention any of the terms like "RPG, " "ARPG," "action-shooter"; or even "third-person shooter" It describes itself as "an epic adventure in an immersive open-ended story line." It also mentions having "interplanetary exploration," "real-time character interaction," and "thrilling tactical combat." - and, for the era in which is was made, I think it very much delivered on all those statements. Fast forward to now... where this whole thread is about worrying over what labels Bioware still isn't using to describe ME:A. Ahhh, fair, fair. My bad. I do think the first ME game was labeled though. Maybe not on the box itself, but certainly it had labels. The problem really stems from how we label games. We try to do it by mechanics, and mechanics can blend together, which leads to a bunch of bullshit where we have elitists and purists who still don't know how to define what they're playing. I think labeling is something that is helpful, and it's something humans are inherently inclined to do. But we don't label movies by what kinds of camera angles they use. That would be stupid. Video games are doing just that. Yeah, but videogames generally don't divide themselves up as comedies, dramas, romances, horror-flicks, etc. IMO, all the labels are useful for is perhaps being able to find the shelf where a store has decided to place their copies of it... and even that's becoming a little irrelevant because store shelves are being replaced with search engine key words and they all can tag them with an assortment of different one so that they'll come up in any number of different categories.
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dreadwolf60
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Ready for more dragon age
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Post by dreadwolf60 on Feb 23, 2017 0:20:29 GMT
Well if it looks like a action role play game then it's a action rpg.
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