lastpawn
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
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Post by lastpawn on Feb 24, 2017 6:33:02 GMT
From a recent AMA with someone who played the demo version.
https://www.reddit.com/r/masseffect/comments/5vinzj/i_played_andromeda_for_three_hours_today_ama_and/
Dammit Bioware. I get flashbacks to Sarcastic Hawke sometimes using a light joke to diffuse the tension, sometimes using the most offensive "joke" you could think of to increase tension. Which one is it? Good guy Sarcatic Hawke or asshole Sarcastic Hawke? Who knows until you pick the option! Or Inquisition where... "I want to help." becomes "If you're truly trying to restore the order..." /insert skeptical asshole look
At least with Shepard you had the general sense that UP is boy scout, DOWN is asshole, so you could generally guess from there.
If we can't have the full readout of what our character will actually say, I hope the lines on the wheel are much closer to reality than was the case in Inquisition, where a good number of spoken lines came out of nowhere.
EDIT: Oh, that AMA is pretty interesting. Maybe some very light spoilers if you weren't keeping track of news so far.
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Post by KaiserShep on Feb 24, 2017 6:42:27 GMT
*sigh* I wish they'd just show what the PC is about to say, instead of trying and failing to paraphrase. More than likely each option would result in more words than can be presented on screen anyway. The Warden would have sounded weird as hell saying those single short lines all the time. Like playing Niki Raikkonen in Thedas. |
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Post by Revan Reborn on Feb 24, 2017 6:44:10 GMT
This really isn't different from DAI. The Inquisitor really couldn't be "bad" or an absolute jerk. It was really just shades of good, with the worst choices generally being more so "the ends justify the means."
That may be a disappointment to the Renegade Shepard fans, but I'm not really surprised to see MEA also following this approach. To BioWare's credit, this is a bit more realistic and believable as Renegade Shepard was ridiculous and borderline cartoonish at times. It was funny to laugh at the choices, but I'm not sure that's actually the response BioWare wanted to elicit from the player.
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Post by KaiserShep on Feb 24, 2017 6:46:31 GMT
This really isn't different from DAI. The Inquisitor really couldn't be "bad" or an absolute jerk. It was really just shades of good, with the worst choices generally being more so "the ends justify the means." That may be a disappointment to the Renegade Shepard fans, but I'm not really surprised to see MEA also following this approach. To BioWare's credit, this is a bit more realistic and believable as Renegade Shepard was ridiculous and borderline cartoonish at times. It was funny to laugh at the choices, but I'm not sure that's actually the response BioWare wanted to elicit from the player. The biggest problem was that the game clearly couldn't even try to react to how over the top it could be sometimes. This was a problem in Origins too. The Warden can be a straight up murder-fiend, and while companions do get pissed to the point of leaving or fighting, it gets carried away when you can wipe out the actual law enforcement of Denerim and still be treated like a hero. |
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Post by Revan Reborn on Feb 24, 2017 6:54:59 GMT
This really isn't different from DAI. The Inquisitor really couldn't be "bad" or an absolute jerk. It was really just shades of good, with the worst choices generally being more so "the ends justify the means." That may be a disappointment to the Renegade Shepard fans, but I'm not really surprised to see MEA also following this approach. To BioWare's credit, this is a bit more realistic and believable as Renegade Shepard was ridiculous and borderline cartoonish at times. It was funny to laugh at the choices, but I'm not sure that's actually the response BioWare wanted to elicit from the player. The biggest problem was that the game clearly couldn't even try to react to how over the top it could be sometimes. This was a problem in Origins too. The Warden can be a straight up murder-fiend, and while companions do get pissed to the point of leaving or fighting, it gets carried away when you can wipe out the actual law enforcement of Denerim and still be treated like a hero. Agreed. A lot of the older BioWare games are really bad about letting you do truly evil things, but really nobody cares in the end. Knights of the Old Republic certainly had its fair share of choices where you could completely ruin a person's entire life and make them fall to the Dark Side. You'd kill them after they blame you for everything and none of your companions would even bat an eye. It was kind of neat having that flexibility of doing truly good or evil things, but it really didn't fit into the larger scheme of the game nor did it make sense for the plot. I figure since BioWare realized their games always follow the basic template of the hero's journey, it makes more sense for the hero not to act like a villain randomly. |
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Post by sosolaris on Feb 24, 2017 6:56:39 GMT
He also replied to another question about the dialogue system:
And there was also this very interesting tidbit from IGN's preview, referring to the tone choices:
All in all, it sounds very much like DAI's dialogue, with maaaybe a slight dash of DA2's personality tracking. I do not mind this in the slightest, since I quite liked aspects of both systems, and seeing them combined would be a treat. I'm a bit eh on some conversations only having two options at times, but I can deal.
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lastpawn
N2
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
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Post by lastpawn on Feb 24, 2017 6:58:24 GMT
This really isn't different from DAI. The Inquisitor really couldn't be "bad" or an absolute jerk. It was really just shades of good, with the worst choices generally being more so "the ends justify the means." That may be a disappointment to the Renegade Shepard fans, but I'm not really surprised to see MEA also following this approach. To BioWare's credit, this is a bit more realistic and believable as Renegade Shepard was ridiculous and borderline cartoonish at times. It was funny to laugh at the choices, but I'm not sure that's actually the response BioWare wanted to elicit from the player. Not having "bad" or "renegade" or "aggressive" options is regrettable, but the bigger concern is having no sense of what my character is about to say until he says it. |
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Post by Revan Reborn on Feb 24, 2017 7:12:47 GMT
This really isn't different from DAI. The Inquisitor really couldn't be "bad" or an absolute jerk. It was really just shades of good, with the worst choices generally being more so "the ends justify the means." That may be a disappointment to the Renegade Shepard fans, but I'm not really surprised to see MEA also following this approach. To BioWare's credit, this is a bit more realistic and believable as Renegade Shepard was ridiculous and borderline cartoonish at times. It was funny to laugh at the choices, but I'm not sure that's actually the response BioWare wanted to elicit from the player. Not having "bad" or "renegade" or "aggressive" options is regrettable, but the bigger concern is having no sense of what my character is about to say until he says it. Arguably, that was even an issue in the Mass Effect trilogy, as what you see on the dialogue wheel is a truncated version. There were a few times throughout the three games where I would make a choice and what Shepard actually said didn't exactly line up to what the dialogue wheel suggested. DAI did a pretty good job of designating tone with the various icons next to each choice. It's not a perfect science, but 9/10 the response you received was more or less in line with the dialogue wheel. |
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Thrombin
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Post by Thrombin on Feb 24, 2017 12:37:47 GMT
The idea of paraphrasing the choices was hailed as something of a revolution when ME1 came out, from what I've read. It ensures that the whole thing works organically as though you are watching a scene in a movie. Otherwise you read a whole bunch of text and then have your character say the same bunch of text. You'd be essentially switching off your brain while your character speaks because you already know what they're going to say instead of really experiencing the dialogue as it happens.
A slight bit of ambiguity is the price you pay for that but I think it's worth paying and, with the tones I would think it's pretty rare that you'd end up with something you didn't want to say.
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peebee
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Post by peebee on Feb 24, 2017 13:26:07 GMT
Until now, this is the only person I've seen saying they couldn't make out what Ryder's gonna say, I wish the other news outlets would go more in depth about this new dialogue mechanic and state their opinion too. Or if anyone has seen any feel free to send me the link  I'm from the DA2, Paragon Renegade team, just because I think we were able to have a character with more personality, I particularly disliked most of the options from DA:I, as they were mostly gray and I couldn't make out the personality of my own character, it was very blanky. So I hope we can be clear in how we stand in things, be it polite, funny or ruthless. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 24, 2017 13:46:32 GMT
*sigh* I wish they'd just show what the PC is about to say, instead of trying and failing to paraphrase. Dialogue option: "I don't like this." Character says: "I'm going to murder you unless you tell me what is going on!"  |
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Post by Link"Guess"ski on Feb 24, 2017 14:41:49 GMT
And once again it's all because they listened to the fans. I saw many posters around the release of ME3 complaining how "The renegade choices in ME2 are out of character!"
Some people were under the impression that all choices should represent a side of the same person whereas I always saw it as being characterization, and roleplaying-flair to customize the player. I too find that the removal of the overall "I don't give a shit, fuck you" choices in BioWare games is negative because it's never possible to shit on the plot whenever it gets bad like in ME1 or ME2 anymore. I actively used Renegade to add some brevity to moments when I felt the writing wasn't selling itself very well and Shepard would just shoot someone in the head or say a really stupid line to pep up the moody or serious tone and I'd just get a good laugh instead. That isn't possible now because every choice is now some kind of viewpoint inside a grey-area.
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Post by Jurus on Feb 24, 2017 17:50:53 GMT
*sigh* I wish they'd just show what the PC is about to say, instead of trying and failing to paraphrase. More than likely each option would result in more words than can be presented on screen anyway. The Warden would have sounded weird as hell saying those single short lines all the time. Like playing Niki Raikkonen in Thedas. The Gothic games had a fully voiced PC with dialogue options as long as DAO's and it worked great. |
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Post by alanc9 on Feb 24, 2017 18:32:15 GMT
Some people were under the impression that all choices should represent a side of the same person whereas I always saw it as being characterization, and roleplaying-flair to customize the player. I too find that the removal of the overall "I don't give a shit, fuck you" choices in BioWare games is negative because it's never possible to shit on the plot whenever it gets bad like in ME1 or ME2 anymore. I actively used Renegade to add some brevity to moments when I felt the writing wasn't selling itself very well and Shepard would just shoot someone in the head or say a really stupid line to pep up the moody or serious tone and I'd just get a good laugh instead. That isn't possible now because every choice is now some kind of viewpoint inside a grey-area. Isn't shitting on the plot pretty much the opposite of characterization? Anyway, I can't see that as being worth burning wordcount on. |
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Post by Link"Guess"ski on Feb 24, 2017 18:39:56 GMT
No, it's supporting the plot in being shitty by making a character who has equally shitty characterization. That's why I can't let Samara shoot herself without also shooting her kids in ME3. It's silly and Shepard killing in cold blood only makes the tone consistent.
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Post by The Elder King on Feb 24, 2017 18:44:44 GMT
So, from what I read, the two choices dialogues are a different type of dialogue? I do hope they'll give us some options that are more...renegade, then what it seems. But I won't hold my breath. Link"Guess"ski: I wouldn't say the characterization is necessarily shitty. It dependent on how the other choices work, it doesn't have to be same as DAI. Although I do hade concerns. |
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Post by alanc9 on Feb 24, 2017 18:48:25 GMT
Not buying it,. Anyway, you'll never sell the devs on that approach.
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