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Post by Giant Ambush Beetle on Mar 4, 2017 12:06:45 GMT
I'm wondering, game play wise, whats stopping me from choosing one of the sniper rifles and engaging enemies from ridiculous distances where they cannot shoot back or hit me accurately, with their assault rifles and SMG's?
I mean, there must be some sort of limitation otherwise the combat game play would be broken. Enemies only spawning at a certain distance or some sort of ''fog of war''? That would be weird. In the previous games the range limitation was the terrain itself, but this time it seems that there are very large vast open spaces in deserts that allow extensive use of long range weaponry.
What do you think?
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Post by sjsharp2010 on Mar 4, 2017 12:48:42 GMT
I'm wondering, game play wise, whats stopping me from choosing one of the sniper rifles and engaging enemies from ridiculous distances where they cannot shoot back or hit me accurately, with their assault rifles and SMG's? I mean, there must be some sort of limitation otherwise the combat game play would be broken. Enemies only spawning at a certain distance or some sort of ''fog of war''? That would be weird. In the previous games the range limitation was the terrain itself, but this time it seems that there are very large vast open spaces in deserts that allow extensive use of long range weaponry. What do you think? there probably will be similar limitations. Plus it might depend on the clip size of your rifle as well as some weapons especially Snipers don't have particularly big clips like the Widow and Mantis type Sniper weapons as they can take out people quick if your accurate but you do have the problem that you only have 1 shot per clip before you need to reloadand should you miss one. So there are obviously some limitations. I'm usually pretty handy with sniper rifles but even I miss from time to time.
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Post by longshadow on Mar 4, 2017 13:13:43 GMT
I don't think that the game will let you do that. I think that enemies will spawn in the area once you've reached the game's allowed "combat distance".
I mean if you're approaching an enemy settlement and use your sniper's scope from a very long distance to see what's going on, I believe that you'll see no enemies. The enemies will be revealed only when you've reached a distance in which they can react and shoot you back or charge towards you.
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Post by Morrigan on Mar 4, 2017 14:18:02 GMT
I remember enemies being somewhat difficult to hit with a sniper rifle in ME1. Furthermore, they shot back. You cannot always see the missiles coming at you when staring down a scope.
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Post by Sanunes on Mar 4, 2017 14:44:29 GMT
I find there are generally mechanics within games to prevent that type of behavior, even if it is just hordes of enemies that you wouldn't be able to kill all of them before they get to you.
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Post by helios969 on Mar 4, 2017 14:47:21 GMT
I've been wondering also. One of the things I hated about DAI was if you attacked enemies with a staff or bow out of their circle of engagement they'd just run around frantically in circles. Let's hope that sort of thing has been fixed and the AI is smart enough to deploy enemies to take you out. MGS5 did a really good job with this. I generally didn't care for the game but it had some good mechanics. I did a rescue mission sniping from distance and the outpost would fire mortar rounds at my position and/or send patrols in to flush me out. I appreciate that level of sophistication.
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Post by Ravenfeeder on Mar 4, 2017 14:49:32 GMT
I'm hoping it works like ME1 where you could get into sniping battles. Shooting at distance and then moving to another sniping point always felt like doing it properly. Got to the point where I'd do the shoreline on Virmire on foot with a sniper rifle and feel badass about it.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 4, 2017 15:14:58 GMT
I don't think that the game will let you do that. I think that enemies will spawn in the area once you've reached the game's allowed "combat distance". I mean if you're approaching an enemy settlement and use your sniper's scope from a very long distance to see what's going on, I believe that you'll see no enemies. The enemies will be revealed only when you've reached a distance in which they can react and shoot you back or charge towards you. I agree - that's exactly what happens in any of the ME games if you try to scope too far into the distance. In ME1, there was also a point on Therum where you could spot an armature in the distance with the scope (beyond the 400m max scope distance), but shoot at it all day long and not damage it. In ME3, there are several areas where you can hunt around with your scope and not see any enemies until you walk in a little closer and you clearly do less damage to enemies the farther away you are from them. I'm pretty sure it will be a similar mechanic in MEA.
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Post by simsimillia on Mar 4, 2017 15:21:14 GMT
How it could be:
- limited Ammo for Sniper Rifles: in ME2/3 the more powerful a weapon was the less shots you usually had. - enemy AI: it could be that if you attack a base from range that enemies that need to be closer just go for cover and break line of sight or close the distance. Maybe they even have vehicles of their own they can use? At least the Mech seen in one of the trailers had a pilot who ejected upon destruction. - spawns: either endless spawning until you close the distance/press a button to prevent that or at least a part of the enemies only spawn when you get close (like guards leaving a building). - Kinetic Barriers: maybe all bases are protected by strong kinetic barriers, that prevent long range sniping.
Apart from that, if I remember correctly, trailers have shown, Ryder take on enemies as far out as 200 meters, so while I doubt you'd be able to engage enemies at extreme distances, engagement distances are more like ME1 than ME2/3.
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Post by longshadow on Mar 4, 2017 16:09:55 GMT
How it could be: - limited Ammo for Sniper Rifles: in ME2/3 the more powerful a weapon was the less shots you usually had. - enemy AI: it could be that if you attack a base from range that enemies that need to be closer just go for cover and break line of sight or close the distance. Maybe they even have vehicles of their own they can use? At least the Mech seen in one of the trailers had a pilot who ejected upon destruction. - spawns: either endless spawning until you close the distance/press a button to prevent that or at least a part of the enemies only spawn when you get close (like guards leaving a building). - Kinetic Barriers: maybe all bases are protected by strong kinetic barriers, that prevent long range sniping. Apart from that, if I remember correctly, trailers have shown, Ryder take on enemies as far out as 200 meters, so while I doubt you'd be able to engage enemies at extreme distances, engagement distances are more like ME1 than ME2/3. The longest sniping we've seen is 129 meters but that's from the initiative trailers which are not actual gameplay. From the real gameplay trailers the longest shown was in Flophouse base on Elaaden and it was around 50 meters.
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Post by spacebeetle on Mar 4, 2017 16:36:11 GMT
Probably you will able to snipe lookouts, but not conquering a zone just pot shooting from afar. I think the head honchos of enemies' encampments will spawn only when you enter them: a little like we’ve seen in the first trailers, where the two mechs plummeted from orbit only after the combat started. I would also think that only them will reward the player with loot.
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Post by simsimillia on Mar 4, 2017 17:08:41 GMT
How it could be: - limited Ammo for Sniper Rifles: in ME2/3 the more powerful a weapon was the less shots you usually had. - enemy AI: it could be that if you attack a base from range that enemies that need to be closer just go for cover and break line of sight or close the distance. Maybe they even have vehicles of their own they can use? At least the Mech seen in one of the trailers had a pilot who ejected upon destruction. - spawns: either endless spawning until you close the distance/press a button to prevent that or at least a part of the enemies only spawn when you get close (like guards leaving a building). - Kinetic Barriers: maybe all bases are protected by strong kinetic barriers, that prevent long range sniping. Apart from that, if I remember correctly, trailers have shown, Ryder take on enemies as far out as 200 meters, so while I doubt you'd be able to engage enemies at extreme distances, engagement distances are more like ME1 than ME2/3. The longest sniping we've seen is 129 meters but that's from the initiative trailers which are not actual gameplay. From the real gameplay trailers the longest shown was in Flophouse base on Elaaden and it was around 50 meters. Didn't the latest Exploration trailer feature Ryder sniping some dinosaur looking creature at 200 meters or something?
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Post by Gray Jedi on Mar 4, 2017 17:13:41 GMT
The sniper will have a range limit one that will force Ryder to get closer before the sniper will be able to reach the enemy but also one that keeps you in range of the enemy shooting distance.
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Post by longshadow on Mar 4, 2017 17:41:46 GMT
The longest sniping we've seen is 129 meters but that's from the initiative trailers which are not actual gameplay. From the real gameplay trailers the longest shown was in Flophouse base on Elaaden and it was around 50 meters. Didn't the latest Exploration trailer feature Ryder sniping some dinosaur looking creature at 200 meters or something? Nope, because the cross in the scope is not aiming directly at the creature. (if the creature was on target the cross would have turned red) The cross is aiming way further than where the creature stands... Attachment DeletedAlso the number 199 beeing red indicates you're probably out of the weapon's range... Attachment Deleted
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Post by kingjuly on Mar 4, 2017 18:20:02 GMT
Honestly this kind of annoys me. A ton of games out there allow people to cheese through combat by standing on something and shooting creatures that are out of reach, sure, but why would you do that? If you honestly look at that and call it a severe downside...then why don't you just NOT do it? Why would you make the combat laughably easy like that? Yeah it'd be cool if the AI took it into account and took cover or hid when you were in an unreachable place but even if they didn't, why would you go out of your way to cheese the combat? Id much rather have fun by enjoying the challenge that the combat presented me with.
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Post by Link"Guess"ski on Mar 4, 2017 18:34:18 GMT
Good luck doing that like the UNC: Espionage Probe mission.
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Post by GannayevOfDreams on Mar 4, 2017 18:36:03 GMT
I've no doubt you could do that to random spawned enemies roaming the landscape, but I'm sure a lot of scripted encounters only activate when you're within a certain range. Take Peebee's mission for example. It was mostly a sequence of "arena" style encounters. There wasn't the real estate to get any significant range going on.
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Post by Cypher on Mar 4, 2017 18:37:04 GMT
Draw distance and spawn points, same thing that stopped you in ME1.
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Post by GordianKnot on Mar 4, 2017 19:25:05 GMT
Honestly this kind of annoys me. A ton of games out there allow people to cheese through combat by standing on something and shooting creatures that are out of reach, sure, but why would you do that? If you honestly look at that and call it a severe downside...then why don't you just NOT do it? Why would you make the combat laughably easy like that? Yeah it'd be cool if the AI took it into account and took cover or hid when you were in an unreachable place but even if they didn't, why would you go out of your way to cheese the combat? Id much rather have fun by enjoying the challenge that the combat presented me with. Because some people like range/stealth based combat tactics instead of bogus JRPG-style "combos?" I don't know about taking down an entire squad of enemies via sniper, but picking off a few to weaken the overall force before moving in is pretty in-line with how I like to play. What would be *awesome* is if different long-range rifles had different ranges based on the planet you were on and it's actual gravity/atmospheric conditions (i.e. since you normally have to compensate for these things when shooting at a great distance). It would add a new element of challenge (and, dare I say, realism) to the gameplay.
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Post by colfoley on Mar 4, 2017 19:40:41 GMT
Two real things limit the sniping of the game. Distance for shots and lack of silenced weapons.
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Post by spacebeetle on Mar 4, 2017 22:25:34 GMT
Two real things limit the sniping of the game. Distance for shots and lack of silenced weapons. I wouldn't say the latter is such a limitation: there are no place to hide if you have a Widow/Black Widow /Javelin after all. You can try to run or hide, but you would only die tired or scared. The silencer also is… well silent, but it doesn’t really deliver that much by comparison.
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Post by jastall on Mar 4, 2017 22:33:54 GMT
Honestly this kind of annoys me. A ton of games out there allow people to cheese through combat by standing on something and shooting creatures that are out of reach, sure, but why would you do that? If you honestly look at that and call it a severe downside...then why don't you just NOT do it? Why would you make the combat laughably easy like that? Yeah it'd be cool if the AI took it into account and took cover or hid when you were in an unreachable place but even if they didn't, why would you go out of your way to cheese the combat? Id much rather have fun by enjoying the challenge that the combat presented me with. Because some people like range/stealth based combat tactics instead of bogus JRPG-style "combos?" I don't know about taking down an entire squad of enemies via sniper, but picking off a few to weaken the overall force before moving in is pretty in-line with how I like to play. What would be *awesome* is if different long-range rifles had different ranges based on the planet you were on and it's actual gravity/atmospheric conditions (i.e. since you normally have to compensate for these things when shooting at a great distance). It would add a new element of challenge (and, dare I say, realism) to the gameplay. While I agree a sniper playstyle being supported would be cool, I don't want Bioware to add that level of realism to Mass Effect. This is pure sci-fi, and gameplay should be kept arcadey and fluid. Leave calculating wind and distance to Sniper Elite and ARMA; I want to scope and drop fools like the space marine I am.
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