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Post by paramitch on Mar 7, 2017 9:15:08 GMT
Hey everyone,
So I'm just here for blatant sympathy because you guys are the only ones who will feel my pain.
But I'm working through my latest DAI playthrough, my fourth, and for the first time, I... did not save the Chargers. I sat there before clicking that SAVE THE DREADNOUGHT button for the longest time, and yeah, it was every bit as awful as I knew it would be.
And wow, it's so different. It's like the light went out of the game. It's really upsetting (it doesn't help that I know what's ahead).
Krem's corner is empty (cries). And Bull himself is so different, he's noticeably checked out. He's shown as grieving, but it's not like the Bull who lost the Qun, who was angry and emotional and still accessible. This Bull is just cold. It's really eerie how different he is. And kudos to FPJr., too, performance-wise (as always), because even Bull's casual friendly greetings now have this slight dark edge to them.
It's interesting that it's all right there in front of you if you look closely. Bull is GONE. (And the speech he gives us up in the battlements, about the "Iron Bull" character he was playing was just truly chilling. Bull has always walked a fine line that way (it's one of the reasons he's one of my all-time favorite characters -- that complexity) and wow, it definitely feels like the Darkest Timeline for him, just listening to him talk himself back into a Qun-loyal mode (and that he'll never again allow himself that family he once created). AGHGHG.
I knew it would be tough, I just didn't know HOW tough it would be. I thought it would be interesting to explore a bad decision made by a good IQ (I can't go too dark with mine, I just can't), but as Bull's my favorite character in the game, this is downright painful! Hats off to the Bioware creative team on this because it really hurts. (And then I'm laughing at myself for letting a game get to me this much, but it really does!)
On the plus side... it's very moving and beautifully done. And it's a really different story experience than I've ever had before. But NEVER AGAIN!
How'd it go for you guys? You're braver than me. (I don't even want to think about "Trespasser." There will be tears. And wine. Lots of wine. )
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Post by Nightscrawl on Mar 7, 2017 9:23:51 GMT
I've never done it, and have no interest in it.
When I recruit Iron Bull, my preference is to save the Chargers. Not only does my Inquisitor actually know them and has experienced their benefit directly, but the supposed benefits of an alliance are academic at best.
However, my canon is to not recruit Iron Bull in the first place, so I'm not even confronted by the choice. My Inquisitor is a Trevelyan from Ostwick; the Free Marches were rocked by the attack on Kirkwall, so he has little reason to trust them, let alone a self-professed spy. I can excuse away the recruitment of Zevran due to the circumstances of DAO and how that scene plays out, but I can't do the same with Iron Bull. And no, the fact that he is supposedly honest about being a spy does not earn him any points, but only makes me even more wary.
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Post by shroomofdoom on Mar 7, 2017 10:07:31 GMT
Hey everyone, So I'm just here for blatant sympathy because you guys are the only ones who will feel my pain. But I'm working through my latest DAI playthrough, my fourth, and for the first time, I... did not save the Chargers. I sat there before clicking that SAVE THE DREADNOUGHT button for the longest time, and yeah, it was every bit as awful as I knew it would be. And wow, it's so different. It's like the light went out of the game. It's really upsetting (it doesn't help that I know what's ahead). Krem's corner is empty (cries). And Bull himself is so different, he's noticeably checked out. He's shown as grieving, but it's not like the Bull who lost the Qun, who was angry and emotional and still accessible. This Bull is just cold. It's really eerie how different he is. And kudos to FPJr., too, performance-wise (as always), because even Bull's casual friendly greetings now have this slight dark edge to them. It's interesting that it's all right there in front of you if you look closely. Bull is GONE. (And the speech he gives us up in the battlements, about the "Iron Bull" character he was playing was just truly chilling. Bull has always walked a fine line that way (it's one of the reasons he's one of my all-time favorite characters -- that complexity) and wow, it definitely feels like the Darkest Timeline for him, just listening to him talk himself back into a Qun-loyal mode (and that he'll never again allow himself that family he once created). AGHGHG. I knew it would be tough, I just didn't know HOW tough it would be. I thought it would be interesting to explore a bad decision made by a good IQ (I can't go too dark with mine, I just can't), but as Bull's my favorite character in the game, this is downright painful! Hats off to the Bioware creative team on this because it really hurts. (And then I'm laughing at myself for letting a game get to me this much, but it really does!) On the plus side... it's very moving and beautifully done. And it's a really different story experience than I've ever had before. But NEVER AGAIN! How'd it go for you guys? You're braver than me. (I don't even want to think about "Trespasser." There will be tears. And wine. Lots of wine. ) I feel ya. I did it once and promptly reloaded. Couldn't do it, I really liked Crem and his relationship with Bull, they were a great group and I just couldn't sacrifice them for the Qun. It helps that I got the impression Bull wasn't all that big on the Qun himself and I personally hate it. I've considered making the choice, for the sake of seeing it through, but.. I just can't and your right, Bull is a broken man afterwards. He's not my favourite companion, but he was one of the most deeply affected by a decision I made. *shudders*
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Post by Catilina on Mar 7, 2017 14:19:10 GMT
I'll watch the video, just as Anders rivalry. There are some things, what I never will do (perhaps this is my this is my bullshit, but I don't like to crush the companions) I like Iron Bull, and I like how loyal to his people. I think, the qun caused some shit in his life, and I don't see the qunari as a reliable alliance. (The qun a logical-sounding nonsense.) THIS:
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Post by Deleted on Mar 7, 2017 17:24:30 GMT
I've only done it twice, because I'm a softy, but I liked it each time. I love seeing the pure sadness coming from him in the cutscene after the decision. The animation is his face is just lovely. The favorite of the two was with a character who romanced him. It's really neat to see the change between the romance scenes, especially if you are more used to his fluffy Tal-Vashoth ones. Trespasser was especially delicious drama wise. Seen that one thrice, since Adair didn't do Bull's quest at all. Love watching his face when the sad stuff happens. Like seeing a complete reboot on a person. Again, the romanced one was the best, since I actually got the fluffy goodbye for that one. But as much as I love the craft going into that path, I prefer saving the Chargers because I like their War Table quests better. (And the Qun ones didn't even trigger the first time I didn't save them, so double loss there. But it was on the romanced one, so it was a bit less loss (or maybe more?)). Also this probably wasn't very sympathetic...so *gentle pat on paramitch's head* There there, your tears will feed the writers, so maybe they won't be as cruel next time. Or maybe they'll be more cruel? Hopefully you enjoy the wine.
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Post by jnericsonx on Mar 7, 2017 22:22:27 GMT
Yeah, can't do it. The Qunari don't have the best rep as is, especially since I'm more than sure Varric has told my Inquisitor's MANY stories about the crap that went down in Kirkwall. Bull may be a Qunari, but he has his own code that happily shares some of the more positive sides of the Qun, but none of the negatives. For some people, and God, I'm included in that, their loved ones, friends and family, are what keep them sane or hell, even alive. Take that away from Bull, and, yeah, no.
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Post by DragonKingReborn on Mar 7, 2017 23:39:24 GMT
I hate it. I mean, I've done it once - to experience the content and I liked how it changes things down the line....but....Krem.....
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Post by Deleted on Mar 7, 2017 23:50:25 GMT
I didn't trust the Qun, or their supposed 'alliance' deal with me. My Canon decided that siding with the Qun was terribly illogical as they didn't care about alliances or truces, and the likes.
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Trouble-shooting Space Diva
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by melbella on Mar 8, 2017 1:35:58 GMT
I've never sided with the qun. Well, technically I did once but since Cullen was working on a Chargers WT mission at the time and bugged out as a result, I had to reload and save them. I think it was meant to be. The closest I came after that was a speedrun where I just didn't do Bull's quest at all. Metagame-wise, I'm not a fan of the qun so I'm pre-disposed to not ally with them. In-game-wise, while they may or may not have been testing Bull, my Inq's are testing them. Since their only contribution is supposedly going to be intel, and they failed miserably at it in this case, they aren't worth the Chargers' lives. Kudos to you, OP, for taking the plunge. Bring a hankie for Trespasser.
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The night is dark and full of terrors, but the fire burns them all away.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by House Targaryen on Mar 8, 2017 4:52:11 GMT
Screw the Qun, they're nothing like Sten. I didn't save the Chargers when I was romancing Bull. Trespasser... yeah, "Nothing personal, bas." I made sure my Inky personally took care of Iron Bull. Nothing personal, Bull.
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Post by vertigomez on Mar 8, 2017 13:46:20 GMT
I've seen the sacrifice and watched what happens in Trespasser on YouTube. That's about as close as I'm willing to get to that particular decision. Bull is always happy and safe in my playthroughs. HE MUST BE PROTECTED.
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Post by fenris on Mar 8, 2017 14:07:33 GMT
I've done it my first playthrough... The moment I got back to Skyhold, the Bull initiated his romance scene, which was so strange! I've almost never done it again since then.
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Post by gervaise21 on Mar 9, 2017 21:31:04 GMT
I did it once for interest sake but I never completed that run as I didn't like the Inquisitor that I had created; he was just too much of a political animal - Vivienne just loved him, which I think says it all.
However, I never understood why people who did side with the Qun were so surprised by what happened in Trespasser. They clearly didn't understand the nature of the Qun or the significance of that decision for Bull. If he was prepared to sacrifice his comrades of nearly ten years for the sake of the alliance, why did they think he would act any differently towards the Inquisitor, whom he had known for less than half that time, when the Qun demanded it of him?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 9, 2017 21:46:41 GMT
I did it once in my Inquisitor Jerkface playthrough...it was tough, so you have my sympathies, OP. After I finished that game I felt like I had to immediately go through the game again and make all the warm fuzzy choices just to reset my karma.
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Post by yusu on Mar 13, 2017 22:58:09 GMT
Oh, yes. I'm experiencing the exact same thing! Currently doing a kinda jerk inquisitor run and sided with the qun. Bull's greetings are just so chilly and detached now they break my heart (he is my canon romance after all). That "Yes...?" is just cold It does drain the light out of the playthrough quite a bit. So looking forward to a second Bull romance playthrough that do everything right. NEVER AGAIN!
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Post by Iddy on Mar 14, 2017 11:50:36 GMT
I didn't trust the Qun, or their supposed 'alliance' deal with me. My Canon decided that siding with the Qun was terribly illogical as they didn't care about alliances or truces, and the likes. And you shouldn't. There is a party banter where Sten says the Qunari merely allowed people to believe a truce was formed with them. Then Alistair says "I thought you people honored your word". And Sten says "We do. It is honor that will bring us back to your shores".
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Post by Nightscrawl on Mar 14, 2017 11:56:50 GMT
I didn't trust the Qun, or their supposed 'alliance' deal with me. My Canon decided that siding with the Qun was terribly illogical as they didn't care about alliances or truces, and the likes. And you shouldn't. There is a party banter where Sten says the Qunari merely allowed people to believe a truce was formed with them. Then Alistair says "I thought you people honored your word". And Sten says "We do. It is honor that will bring us back to your shores". I decided to look this up, and damn... This only appears if Alistair is going to become king. Alistair: So I suppose once I'm actually king I could end up in negotiations with the Qunari one day. Sten: My people do not negotiate. Alistair: What do you mean? They negotiated a peace treaty after the war, and as far as I know they've kept to its terms. Sten: They signed a piece of paper. But only because they knew that you believed in it. Alistair: And what is the difference between that and negotiating? Sten: They stopped fighting for their own reasons. And they will resume it again, one day. The agreement means nothing to them. Alistair: But I thought you said your people believed in honor. Sten: They do. The honor of the Qunari is what will bring our warships back to your shores.
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Post by vertigomez on Mar 14, 2017 12:51:54 GMT
So chilling! That's one of my favorite bits of dialogue, along with this one:
Leliana: I've heard stories about the Qunari, you know. They conquered nearly all of the north. Tevinter, Rivain, Antiva… much of the land was laid waste. In the northern kingdoms, they say the Qunari are implacable. Relentless. More like a landslide than an invasion. It took three Exalted Marches to drive them back to the sea.
Sten: We'll do better next time.
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Post by Iddy on Mar 14, 2017 13:22:26 GMT
So can we all agree that trusting the Qunari isn't the best idea?
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Post by Nightscrawl on Mar 14, 2017 13:30:42 GMT
Well even Iron Bull admits as much if you take certain dialogue options. His point is that the information they can provide is potentially very useful.
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Post by vertigomez on Mar 14, 2017 15:40:41 GMT
So can we all agree that trusting the Qunari isn't the best idea? Yep. And steal one of their best warrior-spies out from under their noses at the same time.
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Post by bear43 on Mar 14, 2017 20:02:51 GMT
I let the Chargers die on my first playthrough. The next I saved them and I was totally surprised at how much different, and better, Iron Bull is.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
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Post by Wulfram on Mar 14, 2017 22:59:31 GMT
I often save the dreadnaught. Based on what the Inquisitor knows at the time it seems the moral, honourable and pragmatic thing to do. Its pretty sad, but the lives of the people on the ship still count even if you never meet them.
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Post by PCthug on Mar 14, 2017 23:39:27 GMT
Two of my Inquisitors have done it. Worth it for the scene in Trespasser .
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Post by kitcat1228 on Mar 15, 2017 11:15:58 GMT
Does anyone have a link to the video of Bull romance scenes when you don't save the Chargers? I'm curious on how it's different.
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