NPC versus Squad Romance Debate Thread.

Because the assumption is being made that a lower priority means there was some form of malicious/negative intent.  I'd expect secondary characters to not get the sort of attention to detail that primary characters get.

Looking at both ME3 and DAI it's easy to see which characters are primary and which are secondary.  But this doesn't mean Bioware must dislike their audience because the secondary characters don't get a ton of resources devoted to them.

I think an NPC romance could be as good, or at least nearly as good, as a squadmate romance, but only if its one of the really important NPCs. If it was a character on the level of Joker, or TIM in ME2*, then I wouldn't see it as inferior to some of the romances with less focused on characters. Josephine and Cullen weren't so bad. But the NPC romances in previous Mass Effects didn't feel truly equal, and I'm sceptical that romances with the rumoured NPCs in MEA will, though of course I may be underestimating their roles.

*I'm not really suggesting a TIM romance, only using him as an example of a character with a large importance to the game, and a good amount of interaction with the protagonist.

Now imagine a situation where for several games in a row straight male protagonists either didn't get a love interest at all, or had one that was very specifically a 'secondary' character, dumped in the cargo hold, no unique model when everyone else gets one, no chance to ever take their LI out in the field when everyone else does.

Imagine every other type of protag - straight female, gay and lesbian - have, for several games, had squad mate LIs with lots of varied content, unique designs, the chance to take them with them into battle if they want.

Can you at all envisage a situation where a straight dude might think, "now hang on just a minute old chap, this doesn't seem right"?

Perhaps answer that while giving specific thought to the term "secondary character."

Since I was not annoyed with Miranda not being part of my crew in Mass Effect 3, I can say that I do not care if the NPC romance would be just as good as a squadmate. It all comes down to the effort they are willing to put in providing quality for the romance content.

I agree that there's potential for non-squadmate romances to be good, but it's still not reassuring considering the overall track record. I have never romanced Cullen, but have heard good things about him. The difference between a character like him and a character you can take along are the battle shots. Some people won't care, but some do. Being able to take screenshots of the LI in action is one of the fandom perks and a LI that just stands there back at the base ... well, it's harder (unless you're an artist). I didn't like how they handled the non-squadmate romances in ME3. I thought saying goodbye via a hologram was cheap. And I thought that the approach taken with Lace Harding was tantamount to table scraps. With a squadmate, I'm assured of a loyalty mission and a declaration before the final fight. With non-squadmates, it's a guessing game. Heavy risk ...

No.

The only non-companion romances that are comparable to a well-executed companion romance are with the plot-important characters that accompany the PC or meet him/her at the plot-important points imo (f.ex. Numen Brok in SWTOR with F!Smuggler on Balmorra).

I like the flirts or banter when you go around adventuring much more than pez-dispensing the 10 lovetalks at the Keep/by the campfire. The Legacy DLC was fantastic in that respect, I have never seen a better portrayal of both the lovers and the camaraderie in a game. I will trade all the nude animations for flavor flirts/romantic references while adventuring!

Even if there is none, well, you can imagine it a little, and if they allow PC-initiated talks while on the go with a few repeat flirts/reactions to clicking, well, I am happy. So, yeah, I am more into continuous hints at the love affair playing out as the games progresses rather than one well-engineered and artistically impeccable titillating cutscene 5 minutes long that leaves no stone unturned half way through the game.

No.
1. They are usually made with create-a-character.
2. They are usually written like they were an after thought.
3. They are usually human. idk Some don't like this.

Honestly they just don't have the same amount of time and effort put into them and it is obvious.

The only non-squadmate I would  have been interested in ever romancing is Aria. BUT EVEN SHE CAME AS A COMPANION ON A QUEST DURING A DLC.

So I rest my case.
Just my personal opinion.

I read a eurogamer or some such early thoughts review today. One part stuck out in particular: where they said (and I'm paraphrasing), "even the minor Tempest crew members have more story now."

Emphasis here on "minor." They might now be more fleshed out than Adams or Gabby and Ken, but they're still minor characters compared to the squad, it seems, otherwise why call them minor at all? 

Really it comes down to this: I have no particular argument against having a mixture of squad and non-squad romances, nor even squad, non-squad, and non-Tempest romances - in fact I think it makes for a more varied and interesting world and am generally in favour of it. In theory.

What I do have an argument against, however, is one particular orientation repeatedly being left out of the squad. Not just in one game, but in several. This disappointment is compounded when those LIs are also the only ones to not have a unique appearance, something that signals a lack of importance to the story, and a lack of importance to the development more generally.

And we have to think: Can we imagine a situation where BioWare would ever have all the straight male protagonist's female LIs outside of the squad and with non-unique designs, while all the other types of protags had in-squad, unique romance options?

I can't.

I don't think many other people can either.

It is important to remember the context for these complaints: This game isn't some free-floating thing, existing in a vacuum, free from referents. It is just another game added to the other games made by BioWare. Further, it is just another game added to the mountain of other games made by all game studios. Further still, it is just another cultural product added to an entire mountain range of other cultural products (including film, books, tv) made by all cultural producers. As such, its lack of representation when it comes to a particular orientation doesn't only speak for this game alone. For the people it's leaving behind it's yet another example of being left out, and, coupled with the trust so many have put in BioWare to do good, this is why it is more of a problem than if it had been one game leaving out representation in a sea of other games that all include that representation.

This game isn't being produced from a level playing field. There is already discrimination, prejudice, and a lack of representation out in the world, and it's especially distilled in video games. If everyone were represented equally already, it wouldn't much matter if in one game out of many the gay and lesbian characters were consigned to a lesser role. But we're not starting from that point. We're starting from a place of unevenness, and so it becomes even more apparent when the game seeks to continue that inequity.

Think about means, medians and modes (mathematically). Across the whole of gaming, or even just across Mass Effect games, if representation averaged out equally amongst all of them, an imbalance here or an imbalance there wouldn't matter because there would be examples of greater representation in other games to even it out overall. That isn't the case, though. The 'mode' in gaming is the straight male protagonist and his straight female romance interest. While the averages are stacked in this way, each time gay representation is under-represented it simply increases that discrepancy. 

So, to conclude, I think non-squad romances have the potential to give more variety and interest to the game world, and aren't in-and-of themselves a bad thing. Neither are they, however, in-and-of themselves a good thing. Their success relies on whether they amplify or respond to existing imbalances and representation problems. In the case of ME:A, if all the gay and lesbian romance characters are non-squad, with fewer integral story moments, with less care applied to their design, and so on, this simply contributes further to existing imbalance.

When, and only when, we get to the point that all are represented to the same degree on average, we can finally say that it won't much matter from one game to the next if a particular orientation (including straight men) doesn't get a squad romance this time around. 

We're nowhere near that point.

Explain why I am in the 'other' category.
Sigh.
Said it before I guess I say it again...
Don't have time for frivolousness got a mission to complete.